Nobility and Templars - Roleplaying them

[Pariah]

So seeing the various staff announcements for the noble and the templar role that just closed, got me thinking and wondering.

The most I've ever personally played was a GMH family member and at the time I wasn't really prepared for it, I think I stored him, or had him stored on me, I don't recall, but I was a shitty family member for sure.

I think I've grown as a RPer since then and was tempted to try out for this last round, but outside of being a templar and enforcing "law and corruption", I was unsure of what a run of the mill noble character really does.

I do understand that they are the center-point of role-play for various roles/characters either directly in their clans or adjacent, but I haven't really ever thought of what it is they do on a day to day.

I didn't apply simply because I wouldn't know what to base my character on outside of Fale as they are typically the "rules go out the window" nobles.

Where a commoner can be created with the goals of becoming a good fighter.  Being a great scout, becoming a great craftsman, I'm not really sure what a noble's "goals" would be in a game like Armageddon.

I'm sorta looking at it as a dwarves focus sorta way probably too much, versus a character motivations and wants.  But I just didn't want to throw an app out, on the off chance I get picked and then be like... Okay cool, now what?

So that kept in mind, and the rules of not talking about things within a year etc etc.  What have some of you done with your nobles that made you enjoy playing them, more than being a plot character or decorative fluff piece?

I'm just curious, maybe if I can figure out some trains of thought to follow, I'll try for a noble next time.

[Fernandezj]

I've never played one either, but I've written up lots of concepts for ones I'd like to play, and they are based sorta on the skeleton descriptions that are provided to give them a general direction: So you have like (generalizations):

Code Select Expand

Borsail: prestiige and slave-trade.
Fale: festivities and parties.
Jal: infrastructure and water.
Kasix: Borsail Jr.
Oash: wine and magick.
Rennik: herbs, villages, and trade.
Sath: fat stacks of coins and books
Tor: strategery
Valika:Trade and taxes.


And then add some sort of baseline personality:
ambitious, hesitant, reluctant, incompetent, novice.

To shape some sort of initial setting:

A young Renniki noble, reluctantly being groomed to assist in the oversight of Yaroch - but would rather study plants.

An incompetent Valikan trying to make a name for themselves by negotiating some sort of trade deal with the merchant houses.

An ambitious Kasixan that sees a slave-based alliance with Jal as a means to elevate both their houses.

But you can also choose to go more heavy on the personality traits/characteristic to define their goal. I.e. they have a drinking problem, tormented by nightmares, obsessed with the latest fashions, power-hungry, wants to go off to war, is an extreme racist, is conciliatory to the commoners, etc.

I also believe in trying to pin your initial goals to the current lay of the land. I.e. if there's currently a Rennik noble player and a heavy Byn presence in Allanak, you might want to play a complementary or contradictory house to leverage/interfere with the other powerbases.

Some roles I've concocted sound fun, like a studious Sath that just sits around and reads and writes books all day, but is harder to fit in.

[mansa]

I was unsure of what a run of the mill noble character really does.  I do understand that they are the center-point of role-play for various roles/characters either directly in their clans or adjacent, but I haven't really ever thought of what it is they do on a day to day.  I didn't apply simply because I wouldn't know what to base my character on outside of Fale as they are typically the "rules go out the window" nobles.

Where a commoner can be created with the goals of becoming a good fighter.  Being a great scout, becoming a great craftsman, I'm not really sure what a noble's "goals" would be in a game like Armageddon.  I'm sorta looking at it as a dwarves focus sorta way probably too much, versus a character motivations and wants.  But I just didn't want to throw an app out, on the off chance I get picked and then be like... Okay cool, now what?

So that kept in mind, and the rules of not talking about things within a year etc etc.  What have some of you done with your nobles that made you enjoy playing them, more than being a plot character or decorative fluff piece?  I'm just curious, maybe if I can figure out some trains of thought to follow, I'll try for a noble next time.

If you wanted to roleplay an aristocrat, someone who is a social rank above everyone else, and explore the interactions that you have with all the other characters in the game.  There is a lot of fun entertainment to pretend to be a rich, self-important, untouchable elite.

If you wanted to roleplay in a social environment where secrets are powerful, and political maneuvering is an everyday event.

If you wanted to be a leader, and have underlings, and boss them around and give them things to do, and make them move like little puppets on strings.

These are things that you would do and entertain as a noble character within ArmageddonMUD.



You might get tired of playing poor characters, mercenary characters, merchant characters, all fighting against their caste.  Sometimes you want to play someone who is already winning.

[Aruven]

I've always felt that Nobles/Templars were done in some ways well beyond what I could ever offer.

The scale and depth of some of those characters was always so clever, and off the charts ultimately it blew me away.

If I ever attempted to take a role, I always felt like it was my job to generate, and delegate. If I could accomplish those two things, I felt like things were enjoyable for myself and folks involved.

[SpyGuy]

I played one noble badly many many years ago.  So not much to contribute but great thread, hope to see some good advice and thoughts here.

I did play a northern templar which I enjoyed a lot more.  They're very different roles.  The challenge with a noble, for me, is that it's a very backseat driver kind of role.  You require a solid group of minions whether formally hired as an aide/whatever or just somewhat loyal and willing to work towards your goals.  Convincing people of that alone can be a giant challenge.  That also means that getting that crew set up and starting to push your own agenda can be a very slow process.

Templars have very clear duties that they're expected to handle.  Nobles not so much or most of their IC duties are virtual.  It's a tough role and I applaud those who knock it out of the park.  I just know it's not for me.

[Veselka]

People complain about 'Not Visible Nobles' and 'Nobles who are just taking up space', but honestly the role requires a little less of logging in every minute of the god damned day to check in with your minions to find nothing has changed. It's a very broad strokes role, and I imagine it is very similar to playing a Staffer.

-You are guiding people beneath you. You delegate tasks to 1-3 Minion PCs that are talented in different ways to execute your plots.
-You are creating plots out of thin air. You decide "Well, Lord Borsail wants a fucking moonrose stew, so invent it, plebeian!". The smallest ideas can create (sometimes) world-arching events. Butterfly Effect Abound when it comes to Nobles. Impetuous Nobles, line-towing Nobles. Their movements leave ripples.
-Politics. Conflict within conflict. Casual dinner conversations can lead to House Feuds. Every time Nobles meet, static is in the air. Even if they are friendly with one another. Add some Templars into the mix for spice...

Yes, a lot of the plots surrounding Nobles, particularly from the Outside looking in, appear dull. Infrequent. Insubstantial. But just as a crafting role to someone who likes playing the hack'm'up Cap in the Garrison makes no sense as a 'way of having fun', the Noble, or even the GMH Family Member, is almost like playing a different game altogether.

Just as playing a Labyrinth Elf or Guild Member is an entirely different experience from an AoD Private.

Really, as with any role in the game, the sky is the limit. Creativity is encouraged.

[slipshod]

I agree with much of what has already been posted.  I've played a number of noble and templar PCs over the years.

I agree that Nobles and Templars should drive plots.  This requires decent playtimes, initiative, creativity, flexibility (when your plans don't match up to the staff vision), and stick-to-itiveness.

They come up with things for other PCs to do, often by delegating tasks, but sometimes by simply inventing tasks.  Sometimes this can mean taking a job that is currently being done by (V)NPCs and assigning it to a PC.  Sometimes these jobs are all RP with no coded actions.  Sometimes they are code heavy jobs (like sorting a storage room). 

I think Nobles and Templars should also be Resource PCs.  They can sponsor and support the plots of other PCs.  Sometimes these other PCs might be the noble's own minion, who has an idea to improve the clan's standing or situation.  Sometimes the PC might be an independent with their own goals and projects that a noble can poor into funds and manpower, ostensibly to get an ROI later.  Sometimes the noble might stand to gain nothing directly from sponsoring another PCs project, but sees the potential for that project being a thorn in the side of an enemy or competitor.  They often have a lot of money and other resources, and if they are regularly spending it on things that drive RP for others (as opposed to hoarding a growing collection of unique items), they'll probably see those coffers replenished from on high anyway.

Finally, I think Nobles and Templars serve as exemplars for parts of the gameworld that are often virtual and implied.  I always took it upon myself to try to bring to life parts of the gameworld that aren't front and center daily for the majority of (lowborn) PCs.  The importance of playing in accordance with the game documentation is double for nobles and templars.  I feel that the benefit to the game world is greater if nobles and templars inhabit and embody their respective families or stations on the social ladder as intended instead of being stark exceptions to the rule.  Many noble families have quirks or multiple facets, and over time certain qualities are portrayed more often than others, so I enjoy searching the docs for something a little more obscure and bringing it to the forefront.  For example, playing a Winrothol with mental health issues, a Fale with the genuine character flaw of a spice addiction, or an Oash who makes wine and values merchant relations.  Nobles and Templars should take baths and highlight the hygiene contrast when out with others, eschew entering a dingy bar even if that's where the RP action is, be racist towards elves, campaign against uppity merchants wearing too much silk, make other PCs feel like insects in a noble's presence, etc.  This is where nobles and templars make the gameworld come to life and remind us all of the differences in status and power by showing it manifest in daily routines. 

Something else that I came to believe late in my career of playing nobles and templars is the value of sharing secrets.  For a long time it was very easy and tempting to play a 'gatekeeper' of sorts, keeping plots and information secret from all but the most trusted of long-lived servants or highborn allies.  With one of my noble PCs, I decided to handle this differently, and bring almost all minions into the fold as soon as they joined the clan, holding 'secret' meetings openly in front of them and sharing plans and plots in detail.  I'm not sure this actually made the plots and plans more successful or more likely to succeed, but I think all the PCs involved had more fun when they understood the goals they were working towards and could brainstorm on their own ways to modify or improve the plans rather than following the leader blindly and hoping for breadcrumbs and clues to understand the full picture.  This might not work in all situations with all plots, but I think it makes a noble's "Team" feel more connected and purposeful.

[valeria]

I've played way too many nobles.  Most of what you 'do' with a noble is try to befriend or thwart other nobles, acquire minions, and delegate tasks to your minions.  It's sort of like any other role.

I'm a firm believer in playing the character, not the role.  If you're playing a character that's enjoyable for you to play, then you're going to be fun to play around.  What do you as a player want to do with your character?   What does your character want, and what drives them?

I like to give my nobles at least one goal driven by some conflict in their background, at least one weakness for other people to play on, some sort of hobby I can do on my own to keep me entertained, and some sort of hobby that necessarily involves other people.


Nobles I've played, since you asked:

Portenna Borsail.  This noble grew up feeling like a second-class child because of the Sath part of her parentage and desperately wants to attain some sort of high position to rub in the face of everyone who looked down on her.  She was afraid of being overlooked.  The first thing that happened when she wandered out of the estate was that a 'rinther stole her special starting-item fan, creating a huge feud between her and the Labyrinth.  Her hobby was trying to convince people to burn down the Labyrinth.  Her other hobby was running Arena events.  Her weakness was an inability to create close relationships because of jealousy.

She was constantly setting her minions to spy on people.


Zeavran Dasari.  She was ugly and always tried to make up for it by the overly judicious use of clothing and cosmetics.  She was afraid of disfigurement.  Her weakness was flattery on her physical appearance.  She was fascinated by the idea of using poisons in a broader wartime application and wanted to create a little poison garden.  She was almost immediately dragged into an existing feud between northern nobility.

She sent her minions out to look at plants.


Ru Fale.  Ru's mother was very influential and her father was a wealthy Valikan who spoiled the crap out of her.  Her goal was to the center of attention, and she loved gifts and parties.  Her first hobby was throwing parties and creating Festivals.  Her second hobby was slumming with commoners, making up games to play with them.  Her weaknesses were that she was easy to goad into throwing childish fits and she constantly spent more money than she had.

She used her minions like props, dressing them up to look good, like people who accessorize their little dogs.


Takharion Jal.  This one was a templar.  He was fanatically pious, paranoid, and ambitious.  He felt like circumstances always conspired against him to make him look bad (he did not need help to look bad).  He immediately set himself up to an intense rivalry with any other templar that dared step on scene.  His only hobby was hunting the enemies of the Highlord.  His weakness was stroking his ego, and if you stroked his ego, he'd purr like a cat.

His minions were the gemmed, who he despised and treated like absolute garbage.


Quintiana Kasix.  A very short-lived templar.  She never wanted to be a templar and felt kind of out of her depth.  Her weakness was that she had no ambition or idea what she was doing.  She was afraid of being forgotten, so she latched on to any project that might get her some acclaim.  Her hobby was fine food.  The merchants needed a lot of assistance with the Crimson Wind at that time, and Oash needed some help with some spiders.

Her minions were the AoD.  I wiped more or less the entire PC unit of the AoD because of a spider nest.  I'm so sorry guys.


Ostren Oash.  This one's barely been a year so I'll be very brief.  She had a traumatic childhood, crippling social anxiety, was afraid of everything, and was convinced she was put out in public to be disposed of so she'd stop being such a weird embarrassment.  Her weakness were being extremely gullible, manipulable, and indecisive.  Her hobbies were writing melodramatic poetry and collecting daggers.

She sent off both gemmed and mundane minions to pursue whatever her whim was at the time, usually the acquisition of some sort of knowledge.

[Gentleboy]

Uh oh, here comes Gentleboy.

I was given the role of a Borsail after 1.5 months of playing Armageddon. And let me tell you people, I wasn't ready.

Do not expect direction from your houses, do not expect people to come flocking to you. It was a difficult role, not because of the role. I was bored, my character was complex, and I was too immature of the game to give you all a proper show.

Now, now I know how I would RP a noble.

A noble is a hard character because we don't get those few weeks to flesh them out like we do with our own none-role accepted characters. They are beholden to their backgrounds. Some people thrive under that, some people sink. For me, it depresses me. I need wiggle room.

So, let's talk about what I did wrong.

1. The first thing I did was sit at the bar at the Gaj as a Borsail. EEEK.

2. I needed guidance from other Borsail/nobles. At the time, the only two houses open were Borsail and Oash. I was incredibly lonely, a player who was meant to sort of mentor me went AWOL, and I didn't know the legacy and history of my own House. You should at least play 5-6 months of this game before playing a noble. For sure. Just so you can play some foo foo aide and learn the gossip.

3. I had no idea how to generate a big plot. And when others said no to my idea, I was stumped. I didn't realize you could bribe people, or like... garner favor.

There's so much I did wrong. I ended up storing after an IG year. But, there's one thing I did cherish, absolutely. And that was time with my advisor and aides. I used to do lessons on how to pour tea (this was before the Atrium was opened) and ask the advisor questions about ancient stories that old bitch was around for. I loved those moments still to this day.

RPing a noble... I think you get better at it as you play these challenging roles. We need to fail first and mature. We just don't get to get better too often since the role calls are far-inbetween! Be well, stick to it, and suffer. That's the way to RP a noble.

[Pariah]

Appreciate all the effort that went into these responses, gave me some ideas, here's to hoping someone kills the new noble fast to get another role open.

[SpyGuy]

+1 to sharing secrets.  I really value this in the game and try to emulate it myself.  It's not always the smart play but giving other PCs even a small glimpse into your PC's own depths and the game world at large makes for fascinating play.  This applies doubly so for nobles where knowledge and connections are their currency.  Obviously there are limits and knowledge is dangerous but even a small sneak peak behind the curtain can make a big difference.

To Max:  I think Borsail is especially hard.  They're elitist so need to conform even more to being proper and above everyone else.  This obviously limits RP potential unless you're creative.  Also most of their House's functions are virtual so you don't have as much to work with compared to some other Houses.  Jal has practical duties.  Kasix can sell mounts.  Oash has gemmers to control and wine to sell/gift.  Borsail is tricky, I sure as hell didn't figure it out.

Also wanted to share a tip that I think is valuable:  Guard every sid when you start!  You'll be set up with an outfit and starting coin.  You'll know whatever your stipend is.  Do not blow it all buying fancy stuff from Kadius right away.  Save the coin for bribes, getting minions or getting some plots moving that might generate more coin (or favor or secret knowledge you can later use).  Also try to think about what you can offer PCs as a bribe that isn't just coin.  It's not like nobles can go forage salt for extra coin but they do have other things to offer if you can get creative with it.

[Saiseiki]

There have been some amazing and educational responses in this thread.  The only thing I would add is that nobles probably function best as catalysts.  While technically PCs, IMHO the player behind them should certainly be aware of how they are or are not supporting other's plots while undertaking stories of their own that ripple out. 

Generate that content for others!

[Inks]

There have been some amazing and educational responses in this thread.  The only thing I would add is that nobles probably function best as catalysts.  While technically PCs, IMHO the player behind them should certainly be aware of how they are or are not supporting other's plots while undertaking stories of their own that ripple out. 

Generate that content for others!

Saiseki is a great noble player and aspiring noobles should take heed.

[triste]

There have been some amazing and educational responses in this thread.  The only thing I would add is that nobles probably function best as catalysts.  While technically PCs, IMHO the player behind them should certainly be aware of how they are or are not supporting other's plots while undertaking stories of their own that ripple out. 

Generate that content for others!

Saiseki is a great noble player and aspiring noobles should take heed.

+1

[Bebop]

I played Rohatiph Vice Fale for about a year over two years ago so I guess I can say a thing or two here about it.  I'll share a little of her backstory to give you an idea of how diverse noble backstories can be.

I set up Ro to go down a path of psychosis.  Her father was gay, mad, abusive and used to lock her in closets then killed a stable hand boy she had befriended by horrifically drowning him in the fountain.  Her mother was a Sath that was beholden to a contract to create offspring with someone not attracted to women. 

At age sixteen Ro poisoned her father and framed his aide/lover who was then executed - summarily killing two people.  Because of this, and the abuse, Ro was never quite right and both loved and hated her family.  She constantly tried to walk a line of being a funny Fale, but also being a victim of very tragic life.  And with that backstory, into the game I went.

She spent her time:  Getting stabbed a lot by would be assassins, being high and drunk, having lapses in reality, bickering with her former lover, courting commoners to no ends, running around in her pajamas, throwing costume balls, mourning her aides that got stabbed on her behalf, drinking wine out of buckets, falling into episodes of psychotic despair, trying to marry into a more powerful House and above her station, smoking a lot of spice and did I mention creating drama wherever she went?  I kind of treated her like a messy pop star.  More productively, I did try to flesh out the in game Fale lore when I wasn't being a fop.

Nobles can be whatever you want them to be.  Some people play nobles to "win."  Others play nobles as real people with goals, weaknesses, dreams, and failures.  At their core, they should be a character and a person the same as any other character.  For me, that character "winning" was to get a rise out of people and give commoners something to talk about.

However, I do feel when playing a noble or templar you are also stepping into a leadership role.  You should be expected to play to a high standard, have a working knowledge of social infrastructure and the game world because in that role you are setting the example for characters under you.  And those characters (underneath you) are reliant on your social status, wealth and privileges to play well.

At the end of the day though, you're also obviously playing your character and this is a game for FUN.  They are still a character and should have emotions and factors that drive them one way or the other.  You should also enjoy your role, because then others will enjoy playing around you.  Treating your noble like a simple quest giver or executioner is no fun for anyone.

How do you impact the world as a noble?  By giving commoners things to do.  Taking your stipend and putting it onto the game world as the form of plots.  Interacting with nobility and commoners.  Using your social status to start things be they good or bad.

I think one of the biggest challenges in this role is you have to make your own fun.  As a commoner, it's easier to bond with your mates fighting off scrabs and taking heart against the vast challenges of poverty.  However, as a noble it can be more difficult, or at least different, when developing deep connections.  Sometimes the social chess matches you're having with your compatriots devolve quickly into annoying petty squabbles.  I think having two city states open will help with this somewhat.  There is inevitably a lot of staff involvement, and how your noble gets promoted can be at times, frustratingly arbitrary.

Your first long-term noble will probably be a huge learning experience and you will likely fuck up a lot.  It may help to go into it with that mentality.  It also depends on who else is playing a noble with you at the time.  That's a huge game changer as well.

Long story short, make an interesting, fleshed out character.  Enjoy it, have fun, but respect the game world around you and invest in it.  At the end of the day, I personally would rather have an impactful, short lived noble than a long-lived noble that no one remembers.  Playability, and engaging the player base is a big thing to me.  But everyone has a different approach.

Also, for the love of god, just please research and understand the social norms of the city you are in, because nobles that disregard that are very jarring.  That being said, play your first noble with abandon.  Spend those coins.  Get stabbed.  Hire folk.  Do your staff reports weekly.  Just lean into it and fail or not.  You'll enjoy it more that way, I'm willing to bet.

[Hauwke]

Almost certain it was me that was involved in the wine bucket drinking. Unless there was some other HG who had a wine bucket and kept insisting nobles try it because its so much better than normal wine.

[Dar]

Bebop. I once played an undead kankfly that climbed into a shot glass of whisky on a bartop of a tavern and dissolved inside it. Ro whizzed by, drunk the shot, and continued on.


Figured you'd want to know that.

[Inks]

There are really some great responses here, worth pinning the topic imo.

[najdorf]

playing these roles requires a lot of dedication and RL sacrifice. their presence is required to orchestrate most activity in the game. kudos to every single of them.
in addition to dedication and game knowledge, a touch of smartness and strategic thinking is also required. since these are not so commonly available traits, my guess would be that less than 10 players keep circulating in the noble / templar pool.

[triste]

in addition to dedication and game knowledge, a touch of smartness and strategic thinking is also required. since these are not so commonly available traits, my guess would be that less than 10 players keep circulating in the noble / templar pool.

This is also exactly why we need to ensure everyone who might even just possibly be qualified gets a chance to try it. This "10" figure you cite is a bit anemic, it may not be sustainable, and it appears as favoritism to those without context.

kudos to every single of them.

Agreed there. And kudos to any future Templars because sometimes you get tired of seeing the same actors all the time no matter how good they are.

[SmashedTregil]

Takharion Jal.  This one was a templar.  He was fanatically pious, paranoid, and ambitious.  He felt like circumstances always conspired against him to make him look bad (he did not need help to look bad).  He immediately set himself up to an intense rivalry with any other templar that dared step on scene.  His only hobby was hunting the enemies of the Highlord.  His weakness was stroking his ego, and if you stroked his ego, he'd purr like a cat.

His minions were the gemmed, who he despised and treated like absolute garbage.

I've said it before. Takharion was very very awesome. I'm sad I didnt get to play with him longer.

I played Shaze, your first aide. And I postponed manifesting as a Nilazi for half a year just so I could play with you longer.  Shaze's story ended maybe 2 rl days after he finally manifested.

[Inks]

Wait, I remember.


Some of my favorite nobles are the ones who are more deeply flawed and greedy, maybe gluttonous, lustful or any other vice. I love it when nobles set them up as three dimensional people with their own weaknesses.

I've seen plenty of uncorruptable murderbone templars over the years,  while it is fine now and then it gets pretty old with how often it is done. Kudos to all of you bribe takers and mover shakers.

[Veselka]

Good opportunity to ask:

What are some good, believable flaws?

What are some good, believable virtues/strengths in a place like Zalanthas?

What are some good unpredictable traits or 'mental health' traits that make sense in a place like Zalanthas?

[Iiyola]

I played Lady Templar Akaria Tor.

While her background wasn't as spectacular, she was particularly insecure. She was quite two-faced in the sense that she kept up appearances but deep down inside she was always doubting herself.

Despite her cold and austere demeanor (and looks) she always felt she wasn't good enough. She loved history, she wanted to /make/ history, (and wrote a book or 2) just so she could maybe, finally prove that she indeed was worthy of her position. But it was never good enough, SHE was never good enough. So she put the pressure on her minions, but knowing full well she needed THEM, she was quite forgiving in the end (IF they had a good head on their shoulders).

Public displays of punishments, be it in the Cuddler or the arena would hopefully prove she was indeed the cold blooded Templar she seemed to be, outwardly. I did lots and lots of thinks and feels on this PC, particular when she was facing a Red Robe or other nobles. Unfortunately she never really got the chance, but if other nobles had tried to actually stroke her ego and show they "cared" about her on a personal level, she would've shown her true, insecure self, and possibly have given away lots of weaknesses to them.

She had, in hindsight, the Impostor Syndrome.

[Iiyola]

Some of my favorite nobles are the ones who are more deeply flawed and greedy, maybe gluttonous, lustful or any other vice. I love it when nobles set them up as three dimensional people with their own weaknesses.

This. I love me some flawed PC's. PC's you can peel the layers away from like an ocotillo.