population hubs

[Barsook]

Minor is the "M". GMH is used for the four "great" ones.

[Riev]

Minor is the "M". GMH is used for the four "great" ones.

This is correct. Player Clans were supposed to eventually become Minor Merchant Houses.

The closest to MMHs has been Darkmoon Trading Company (well before the rules were even set up) and Joybane Trading company, which wasn't a PC clan in the first place.

I can think of a few PC Clans that got to the Warehouse stage, and even getting an NPC set up, but nothing to the level of MMH.

[LindseyBalboa]

Yeah I meant GMH, was thinking "Major Merchant House" in my head.

[Veselka]

Minor is the "M". GMH is used for the four "great" ones.

This is correct. Player Clans were supposed to eventually become Minor Merchant Houses.

The closest to MMHs has been Darkmoon Trading Company (well before the rules were even set up) and Joybane Trading company, which wasn't a PC clan in the first place.

I can think of a few PC Clans that got to the Warehouse stage, and even getting an NPC set up, but nothing to the level of MMH.

FOIC, there are other examples that have gotten further.

[Narf]

Minor is the "M". GMH is used for the four "great" ones.

This is correct. Player Clans were supposed to eventually become Minor Merchant Houses.

The closest to MMHs has been Darkmoon Trading Company (well before the rules were even set up) and Joybane Trading company, which wasn't a PC clan in the first place.

I can think of a few PC Clans that got to the Warehouse stage, and even getting an NPC set up, but nothing to the level of MMH.

FOIC, there are other examples that have gotten further.

Further than Darkmoon? I don't think so. They made it to level 4 of 5, and we were told that no one's made it to level 5 yet a few months back. That said, I think there's been quite a few level 4's, including some still active.

[Malken]

Where is that list of levels and their requirements again?

[Narf]

An overview can be found here: http://armageddon.org/help/view/Player-Created%20Clans

To get more details on each level there's a link at the top of that page for each individual stage.

[Malken]

Thanks!

[Fernandezj]

Thats confusing that both major and minor houses use the same acronym.

[SilkyBoi]

I thought it was:

GMH = great merchant house(s)
MMH = minor merchant house(s)

Oops someone already said this.

[Blink]

Thats confusing that both major and minor houses use the same acronym.

They don't.  It's MMH and GMH (Great Merchant House).

[Malken]

From the Stage 5 helpfile:

Your clan will be added to the Minor Merchant Houses helpfile. This will list other virtual and NPC minor houses or equivalents.

I guess the fact that there's no Minor Merchant Houses helpfile means that no one ever reached level 5?

[Riev]

I guess the fact that there's no Minor Merchant Houses helpfile means that no one ever reached level 5?

Code Select Expand

Merchant Houses                                                       (Clans)

   The Merchant Houses of Zalanthas are ancient entities, many dating back
a thousand years. By the Thirteenth Age, many of these clans had formed
collective agreements with each other and had begun to band together in
loosely organized Merchant Houses. Notable names among the families during
this period were Kurac, Nenyuk, and Kadius. Salarr was the last of the
Great Merchant Houses to establish an emporium and did so in Allanak in the
year 1173.

Great Merchant Houses:

     House Kadius               House Kurac             House Nenyuk
     House Salarr

Lesser Merchant Houses:
   While the concept of a Merchant House generally brings about images of
the four Great Merchant Houses, there are other organizations that fit this
classification as well. Known as Lesser or Minor Merchant Houses these small Merchant groups usually operate in only one city location.  Though not as flush with wealth, they have still
secured a place for themselves within the Zalanthan economy, although this
place is less secure.

     House Delann               House Deuring           House Rauch
     House Aldebaar             House Codrek            House Leramir
     House Terash               House Kulon             House Folatra
     House Corman               House Jurrix


[SilkyBoi]

If no one had reached level 5, then it is too hard to reach 5.

[mansa]

If no one had reached level 5, then it is too hard to reach 5.

As currently designed, the player created clan structure works like this:

Phase 1:   "Get an IDEA and start to go after it."
Talk to the political structures around the area.  Bribe people.  Start talking to regular characters.  Make your presence known.   Create a request in the Request Tool.
Do this for a minimum of an in-game year, or 6 weeks real life.  (~43 RL days) and then ...


Phase 2:   "Get a lair/warehouse/hideout"
Talk to the political structures around the area.  Bribe people.  Land ownership should be taken into consideration.    Create a request in the Request Tool.
Get a structure with a lockable door and a key.  This is the time to specialize into your particular gang/corporation/armor styles
Do this for a minimum of 2 in-game years, or 12 weeks real life.  (~83 RL days) and then ...

Phase 3:   "Add NPCs to your group!"
You should be speaking with the Player Created Clans staff at least one a month at this point, talking about various adventures of your group, and the key items you want to accomplish with it.
Talk to the political structures around the area.  Bribe people.  Land ownership should be taken into consideration.    Create a request in the Request Tool.
Get 2 NPCs that can be a guard / merchant / hawker.
Do this for a minimum of 5 in-game years, or 30 weeks real life.  (~215 RL days) and then ...



Phase 4:  "Clan tags and clan ranks"
At this point, it's been a full year since starting the player created clan process.

The clan should have the ability to hire new people to do things that are oriented around 'the corporation' focus.  There should be a 'backup' character in mind that can take over things in case the main character dies off.  The clan should exist if the main character doesn't log in for a month at a time.
It's at this point that the staff should be updating the code to allow a new clan structure to exist.  Coded paymasters, IC rumor board, larger "Lair" area.

Be at this spot for an additional 5 in-game years, or 30 weeks real life.  (~215 RL days) and then you get to Phase 5:  Minor Merchant House



So, what if the player doesn't want to go past Phase 3?  What if they just want to have an NPC merchant, and that's it?

[Latrine Swimmer]

I personally avoid Allanak because of a couple of key people in certain roles who have a tendency to just want to make my characters miserable even when I try my best to work for or be their minion. I'd likely play in Allanak more also if the Nobility was more visible and driving some sort of plots that weren't upgrading a bathroom in their estates behind the scenes or whatever. (Not trying to attack anyone just seems there's little going on in Allanak and it could have more things to involve others)

[chrisdcoulombe]

My last character was in the Aod, and yes its been over a year ago,  so I made a character in a different area.  I'm fine with playing a role in Allanak, but I don't play every character there.   If you pursue your own interests and are successful other players will gravitate toward your character and you will have plenty of interaction even if you are isolated. 

[Veselka]

The 'PC Clan' structure (Stage 1-5) was made so long ago, I wonder if it isn't worth revisting, particularly how much time investment is required to get to stage 3-4, not to mention 5 (seemingly unachieved since inception). Even if a MMH is absorbed after the PC(s) grow tired of pursuing that plotline, it should be far more achievable than it is now. Otherwise, what's the point of even trying?

As far as Allanak goes, well. It seems pretty ghostly at present, but everything goes through shifts. I'm sure it's just a phase.

[williamson]

I think that the "problem" with Allanak is that everyone has a different opinion of how it should be. If you look at Allanak as an OOC playground, it has all the parts to be great. It has areas for politics, criminal enterprise, arts, combat, and merchanting. As an OOC construct, it seems fine to me.

In the past, the game supported multiple noble PCs in Tuluk and Allanak. Perhaps with Tuluk closed, Allanak could have more nobles. If they're more nobles, hopefully there will be more conflict, cooperation, and/or parties?

As for the player based clan system, I think it's working as intended. It seems pretty easy to get to stage 3. It seems possible to make it to stage 4. Stage 5 has some OOC restraints: human only, based in Allanak, pre-approval by staff, and an IC political vote. Accomplishing this should be VERY difficult and you need to create a clan that the staff want to continue to support after your PC is gone. I like the option and I like its scarcity. It's the merchant equivilant of owning a metal weapon. Possible, but very, very rare.

[Riev]

As for the player based clan system, I think it's working as intended. It seems pretty easy to get to stage 3. It seems possible to make it to stage 4. Stage 5 has some OOC restraints: human only, based in Allanak, pre-approval by staff, and an IC political vote. Accomplishing this should be VERY difficult and you need to create a clan that the staff want to continue to support after your PC is gone. I like the option and I like its scarcity. It's the merchant equivilant of owning a metal weapon. Possible, but very, very rare.

While I agree with the rarity, there's something to be said about a system put into place years ago, but has never seen someone even come close to the 'end stage'.

Its gotten "easier" to get to a Stage 3-adjacent area, which is really nice, but historically even that was a nightmare. Even with moons, stars, and PCs aligned, one OOC issue like playtimes or staff attention could stymie your idea.

Add in to the fact that people want risk, and danger, and people doing things that could "get their PCs killed" and a PC Clan documentation that requires a RL year investment lends itself to "safe play".

[Narf]

As for the player based clan system, I think it's working as intended. It seems pretty easy to get to stage 3. It seems possible to make it to stage 4. Stage 5 has some OOC restraints: human only, based in Allanak, pre-approval by staff, and an IC political vote. Accomplishing this should be VERY difficult and you need to create a clan that the staff want to continue to support after your PC is gone. I like the option and I like its scarcity. It's the merchant equivilant of owning a metal weapon. Possible, but very, very rare.

While I agree with the rarity, there's something to be said about a system put into place years ago, but has never seen someone even come close to the 'end stage'.

Its gotten "easier" to get to a Stage 3-adjacent area, which is really nice, but historically even that was a nightmare. Even with moons, stars, and PCs aligned, one OOC issue like playtimes or staff attention could stymie your idea.

Add in to the fact that people want risk, and danger, and people doing things that could "get their PCs killed" and a PC Clan documentation that requires a RL year investment lends itself to "safe play".

One oft-overlooked aspect is that around Rank 3 you can designate an heir to take over should you die. I think more attention needs to be drawn to this as it would greatly increase the ability to complete things as written without staying too safe or worrying about dropping off the face of the earth if they designated people to take over for them when that occurred.

[Crimson]

I get tired of bar hopping hoping to find anyone in Allanak only to see PC after PC enter bar and not give me time to emote something. I almost feel like I have to have an emote ready to spam them to get their attention. So its sometimes just easier to do whatever I can to find my own enjoyment. But the PC loneliness doesn't come without some OOC sadness.

[number13]

In the past, the game supported multiple noble PCs in Tuluk and Allanak.

In the past, we had 60 to 70 players on peak, consistently.

[Riev]

In the past, the game supported multiple noble PCs in Tuluk and Allanak.

In the past, we had 60 to 70 players on peak, consistently.

I think that furthers his point. We have 20% less players on, and the same amount of staffers, so you COULD support more nobles in Allanak. By the numbers.

[JackGibbons]

There is also the chicken and egg problem. Do we have fewer people on because we're not keeping newbies at the same rate, when they start in a ghost town and get bored and stop logging in? Critical mass, etc?