The Allanak Problem

[Aruven]

That's a pretty generous summary. I like it.

[Lotion]

Every time there is an interesting character causing a little bit of interesting mischief before maxing their stealth skills they just get randomly templar'd. There's a reason people twink stealth to hell and back.

[Shabago]

Every time there is an interesting character causing a little bit of interesting mischief before maxing their stealth skills they just get randomly templar'd. There's a reason people twink stealth to hell and back.

1) Not random.
2) IC actions have consequences.
3) You have no idea what occurred leading up to it.
4) You know better than to post things that happened recently in-game, that anyone who was in-game at the time would know you're referring to.

[Lotion]

We must be thinking about different things.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would suggest, though, that powerful characters try to figure out ways to let troublesome characters, who do not seem to be overly threatening to their lives, live when it can be explained away ICly. Not always. Just when they can.

Troublesome characters should be cool with getting a hand/fingers/foot/ear chopped off or getting castrated or whatever in order to live. When the player can mentally deal with it, they should try to be cool with "consent requested" scenes, and not just think about how hard it might be to play with a handicap or disadvantage. Obviously, they also have got to be able to accept that they might get whacked.

After all, how cool of a story might it be when the scarred templar and the one-handed elven eunuch assassin have their final showdown?

I'm not pointing to any particular event or death, just offering some (IMO) story-enhancing advice.

[Veselka]

Sometimes it makes sense to maim/torture, other times it doesn't. There are IC consequences to IC actions, and sometimes it seems people get really confused about that. What sometimes doesn't seem like a big deal to your PC might be a huge deal to another PC, and so on.

I agree for the most part, and have seen most powerful PCs show incredible restraint in the last year or two, even when it ultimately leads to their own downfall (ironic).

[Dar]

I still remember fondly he day when my RF and a bunch of others captured three indies crossing the Tablelands. We brought them to our tents and the NPC tattooist made a slave tattoo on each one of them. Then we sold them to Tor.

The fact that they played along and everyone went out of their way to create the most content out of the situation and least amount of death.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Can I get some clarification on what is a regular troop versus an elite troop? The byn is doubtlessly grunt troops, but the Jade Sabers were routinely referred to as a group of soldiers that are something a bit more than the usual militia division. On top of that what would a non-elite group do? Stand gate guard? Patrol around? Don't we already have NPCs for this purpose? I can guarantee if that was on offer I'd be comfortable never playing a single "grunt" troop.

The Sabers effectively did the same thing as all of the other organizations nine out of ten times and that tenth time they were doing something specific to their group to set them apart. I don't really understand why we need 5 cookie cutter organizations open at once, but I also don't really understand why the byn needs to exist when that role could be filled by indies or a player created MMH group other than perhaps latrine cleaning RP.

Maybe it would be better to cycle through each of these groups every time there's one of those inevitable party wipes/loss of interest wipes?

PS: An errant thought; why do we need aides? Why does any Noble/Templar need aides? When they take the role they agree to be present often with consistent playtimes and any job they need done they can hire/order somebody to do, any protection they need they have a guard that will protect them. It seems like a waste of the player population that could be filling a role in the gameworld elsewhere.

[Narf]

PS: An errant thought; why do we need aides? Why does any Noble/Templar need aides? When they take the role they agree to be present often with consistent playtimes and any job they need done they can hire/order somebody to do, any protection they need they have a guard that will protect them. It seems like a waste of the player population that could be filling a role in the gameworld elsewhere.

A good aide makes the life of any leader character, noble or otherwise, so much easier. If you want leaders that only stick around for 2 months and then burnout then I guess you could get rid of aides.

[Barsook]

Or have a time limit on how long you can play a Noble until the next role call.

[rinthrat]

PS: An errant thought; why do we need aides? Why does any Noble/Templar need aides? When they take the role they agree to be present often with consistent playtimes and any job they need done they can hire/order somebody to do, any protection they need they have a guard that will protect them. It seems like a waste of the player population that could be filling a role in the gameworld elsewhere.

So you can cover more than one timezone. The minimum requirement is playing 10 hours a week, that's like - 90 minutes a day, and may be between 3:30 and 5AM for someone in a different time zone. Your playtimes are also hidden from other players (except for the handful that have access to your clan board, if you post them there), so I have no idea when in a 24 hour period you'll be online. An aide with high playtimes that passes on messages makes that noble/templar PC much easier to reach.

[gotdamnmiracle]

How many roles are there that don't normally get aides, but still manage to play with others? Also a frequent occurrence I find is a revolving cast of aides getting killed because the Noble that people want dead knows it and only wants to log in the minimum amount of hours. Maybe they should be required to do their own shopping and make their own deals?

A Borsail Noble with a J name comes to mind back when I was playing Shakl of the Guild.

[Dresan]

Not sure how long its been since I last played but on the topic of murdering characters that cause any sort of mischief or just don't have any strong backing. 

My perception of the game when i stopped playing was that people playing sponsored roles had nothing better to do then dog pile that lone indie or murder any character or their friends/family who may not have decided to pick a max stealth class and twink their skills before chatting.

Can it be justified ICly? Sure. Is it fun? Not really. I am not sure if its changed and people have better things to do now but still don't feel like making another character to find out.

That said, I wish you all a Happy New Year.

[triste]

Or have a time limit on how long you can play a Noble until the next role call.

+100000 to this

Some people have gotten to play more than 15 noble PCs while most people get to play 0. And that is f--king silly because any justification can't justify such a thoroughly unenjoyable situation in a game.

When highborns go inactive without warning more than three weeks maybe autostore them. If me and other people are denied these roles due to "Low Playtimes" (sorry for having a life) then apply that rule fairly to everyone, including people who lied about their playtimes to get a role, or magically didn't have that standard applied to them like it was applied to other people

[SpyGuy]

Serious question Triste:  why do you want to play a noble so bad?   Especially with limited playtimes it'll just be extremely limiting.  For what it's worth I'm betting you could knock it out of the park but I'd also bet you'd enjoy it a lot less than you think you would.  There are reasons many nobles store or go inactive. 

Obligatory:  I hate the implementation of PC nobles.  Not anyone's specific noble.  If you love the role awesome, I realize people have different tastes.

[triste]

Serious question Triste:  why do you want to play a noble so bad?   Especially with limited playtimes it'll just be extremely limiting.  For what it's worth I'm betting you could knock it out of the park but I'd also bet you'd enjoy it a lot less than you think you would.  There are reasons many nobles store or go inactive. 

Obligatory:  I hate the implementation of PC nobles.  Not anyone's specific noble.  If you love the role awesome, I realize people have different tastes.

Since you asked a serious question I will seriously answer with yes, I would love to play this and I am tired of being told what "I would be good at playing" or not when you could simply give people the opportunity to prove themselves.

If I had to choose between two systems...
System A: Everyone gets to try and play the role they want to play at least once, because the first thing you learn on the playground is "share your toys."
System B: Only The Best Roleplayer gets the good roles and we must serve him and wait for him to rotate through them.

Well, I prefer System A. But we more have System B where 7 players get 25% of the roles and the rest of us are suckers.

Pardon me for looking at some numbers that were posted earlier and declaring them WACK

[SpyGuy]

Well I have no power to give you the role.  Not even sure if we've ever met IC.  It's really not a hard role to RP, it's a difficult role on an OOC level imho because you need to cultivate relationships and rely on others to do most tasks.  You can't even find decent justification to speak with half the player base.


I got the chance to play a noble pretty early on.  I definitely had the playtimes as I could play during my summer job.   After the novelty wore off I hated the role. 

Not to be rude but I don't think you actually answered why you want to play a noble so bad.  What about the role attracts you to it?   Do you have a good idea on how you'd use it to create fun for others and even more importantly yourself?  I'm genuinely curious because it sounds like you really want this role.

[triste]

I don't apply to these roles anymore because I have given up at this point, but I have 3-4 totally distinct Noble concepts with more than six itemized goals per character. I've been told my applications are good except for playtimes.

IDK maybe despite typing thousands of words outlining what I want to do with these roles your question is somehow unanswered and I am applying for these roles without knowing what I want to do with them (?)

It is what it is: a silly elitist system (which we can improve)

[Is Friday]

I don't know of anyone who has played more than 2-3 nobles or Templars total over a period of 10+ years. I think you're being purposefully misleading.

I have played a lot of leadership total over 14 years and only 2 of them were nobles. (0 Templars.)

I also think you're being disingenuous about applying and/or not being accepted. If staff have really not accepted you after you applied to multiple roles then it must be some issue you haven't worked out with your play history, player to staff relations, or something else. Please stop posting this narrative that there is an issue here. Staff are actively wanting good applicants. Work out your issues with the request tool.

[Veselka]

I don't think people are entitled to a role simply because they apply for it. Personally, if I was on Staff, I wouldn't want to reward the person loudly and often complaining on the GDB/Discord about being rejected for roles in the past and being passed over due to an 'elitist system'.

I'd want to give it to the person with a good-seeming attitude that is perhaps exemplified through a non-acerbic presence on discord/the GDB, seemingly low drama, who was excited for the opportunity, able to pivot once they are IG even if their initial goals don't find traction, communicates well, and has decent playtimes. I'm sure playtimes (particularly ones at EST peak) are desirable, but I've seen Nobles and Templars both that are off-peak pretty much all the time, and only an hour or two here and there. Through Aides and good planning, they've been successful enough.

I'm not sure 'low playtimes' is the entire reason you aren't being considered for the roles. Perhaps that is the line Staff are giving you to not be rude or perfectly honest with you, perhaps we don't know the entire story. But when you begin to air your personal laundry on a public forum like the GDB or Discord so consistently, it will invite scrutiny from your peers.

[Is Friday]

For those that wish to play a leader, here is a "guide" that I made for the community's benefit. The data shows that you just have to apply a few times and odds are you'd be accepted if you kept putting in enough effort. I'll also point out that my history as a player is very "checkered" in that I've frequently been in hostile situations with staff and/or other players. It's not insurmountable to even have "bad behavior" on your account and still be accepted, given enough time/growth.

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,56082.msg1051114.html#msg1051114

[Veselka]

Also to add -- Staff often have a plan or vision for the role and its goals. My most recent application for an Allanaki Templar was declined due to 'wanting to go a different direction' with the role. It was not a fault of my application, of my playtimes, or my goals for the role. They just did not line up with where Staff wanted the role to be at that moment.

These are things to consider in acceptance or rejection of your PC concept -- It isn't necessarily a bad application. Or that you are a player they don't like, or that they didn't even like you and your application. It just doesn't mesh with how things are going IG, they got another applicant that ticks all the boxes, and they decide to pass.

I, too, have applied for many roles and been declined. But I don't let it turn into a chip on my shoulder.

[triste]

To be clear, I don't have a "chip on my shoulder" and I mostly replied to back up Barsook, it was a good idea to fix a suboptimal system.

My beef is with suboptimal systems where only a few reap the rewards with only dubious meritocratic justification.

One of my side jobs is running mock technical interviews for people who want to be engineers. If our mock interview rubric abided by the sort of flimsy standards by which roles were doled out here, people would want their money back. I also conduct actual job interviews for the most selective company in the world in terms of hiring. If I held people to the wacky standards that we have over here during that job, I'd get fired or sued.

That's all, put a few braincells into coming up with a system that works for everyone [or at least a few more people], and thanks Barsook for the idea you posted.

Edit/Addition: 30 minutes after posting this my boss for the side job told me to specialize in giving the hardest / final interview because I am "good at it" and an hour after this post a student of mine emailed me because he just got a job and wanted to thank me for how I prepared him. Pretty funny that I was vilified for this post when my entire modus operandi is helping people

[Is Friday]

To be clear, I don't have a "chip on my shoulder" and I mostly replied to back up Barsook, it was a good idea to fix a suboptimal system.

My beef is with suboptimal systems where only a few reap the rewards with only dubious meritocratic justification.

One of my side jobs is running mock technical interviews for people who want to be engineers. If our mock interview rubric abided by the sort of flimsy standards by which roles were doled out here, people would want their money back. I also conduct actual job interviews for the most selective company in the world in terms of hiring. If I held people to the wacky standards that we have over here during that job, I'd get fired or sued.

That's all, put a few braincells into coming up with a system that works for everyone [or at least a few more people], and thanks Barsook for the idea you posted.

That's very condescending that you think staff aren't putting "a few braincells" into evaluating each application. It takes a lot of time and energy. They have also been known to accept people to give them a chance as an inexperienced player.

The issue isn't really with the system.

[Veselka]

It isn't a job interview. It's more like auditioning for a role in a play. At the free adult community theatre down the street that's on the verge of closing. It isn't a paid position. It's undertaken for reasons of personal passion and the sake of permadeath fun. Not for $$$.