The games direction.

[Doublepalli]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55908.0.html

Hey guys, as a POC, I'm just curious of the game's direction and influence on what's going on real life and real time today, and wanted to see what sort of cultural influences are there.  Anything you guys want to add, let's discuss it maturely.

[Gentleboy]

I don't understand this post. I'm confused as to what is being asked? Are you asking if the attitude of the real world is showing in the real world?

[Doublepalli]

I simply want to know if POC, females, LGBTQ are represented in staff's leadership, especially at the highest levels, so these issues can be handled with a broad spectrum of background, consideration and empathy.

[sandandblood]

i wanna kill stuff with bone swords

[Tranquil]

It's a role-playing game, my man.

You're not supposed to let IRL current events influence IC role-playing/atmosphere. Of course, our real life culture affects manners of speech and all that but the intended way to play this game is as if you're in another world, which is Zalanthas, not in our current messed up world.

People play games like these for escapism, and yet some others try to bring the real world into it all. I'd recommend relaxing, as you're bugging out pretty bad over something meaningless. I don't mean this in a personal way (more supportive) - but it's getting pretty embarrassing. 

[Gentleboy]

They're wondering about the leadership and who allows the changes I think.

Cause while we are a free speaking group and on a forum, end of the day, staff makes the choices. Okay, I get that.

I do know that I've had some issues with lgbtq things and I needed to explain to the staff why something is offensive or a no-no.

[BadSkeelz]

We should remove non-human races from the game because they're generally not great.

[triste]

WRT Tranquil's point: I play largely for the escapism as well. That said, please don't hate on 'palli for posting this. There is a cultural revolution going on for better or worse. Two people were just shot 5 miles from me this morning over it.

WRT Doublepalli: I like the idea 'palli, but in order for this to work one would need to collect the demographics of the playerbase. I am not sure I would want to play a game that started with a census survey; I wouldn't want that data to be leaked, etc.

I think the most elegant way to achieve representation in these circumstances is to have elections but staff have already stated this will not happen.

I just want to empathize and say I know why you started this thread though. I would feel good about how this game handles some topics if I had the knowledge that staff were diverse or at least representative. But it is not necessary and, given circumstances, not possible.

WRT to gentleboy's point: there is no singular "queer opinion." Whatever gentleboy asked staff to change might have been something my equally trans ass did not think need to change. Therefore having more queer staffers would not fix this issue.

WRT Badskeelz: nuclear option and would work dubiously given the retconned history of the Tan Muark. I promise haters will hate no matter what. They got nothing left to do.

TLDR; we cannot make this about identity politics for a lot of reasons. Main concern should just be to ensure our feedback is heard.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

Well, I wouldn't say the staff demographics are anyone's business in the first place. I would imagine that, ideally, whoever is put on the staff roster is a culmination of many factors, including writing proficiency, dedication to the game, maturity, the amount of time they are able and willing to spend managing and improving the game...

Whether or not anyone meets such-and-such demographic criteria to "represent" females or LGBTQ should be a complete non-issue, seeing as this is a heavy role-playing game, based on its own world. As far as I see it, the more divorced Zalanthas is from the real world, the better. But you have to realize that there will always be certain parallels, and that cannot be helped.

Lastly, I also feel ESL is a complete non-issue. We shouldn't care if English is someone's first language or their tenth. They still need to be able to write it well, regardless. On the plus side, someone with English as a tenth language would therefore likely be well-versed in many languages. This is obviously a net-positive, a boon, but still, there are definitely many more factors involved in choosing people than just how many languages they know.

[BadSkeelz]

WRT Tranquil's point: I play largely for the escapism as well. That said, please don't hate on 'palli for posting this. There is a cultural revolution going on for better or worse. Two people were just shot 5 miles from me this morning over it.

Maybe people should go outside and protest instead of virtue-signalling hand-wringing over a text game.

[triste]

WRT Tranquil's point: I play largely for the escapism as well. That said, please don't hate on 'palli for posting this. There is a cultural revolution going on for better or worse. Two people were just shot 5 miles from me this morning over it.

Maybe people should go outside and protest instead of virtue-signalling hand-wringing over a text game.

Agreed, but I do not blame any POC for being overwhelmed by it and letting it come here. Otherwise yes, agreed.

[mansa]

I think the biggest thing you can consider, in terms of game direction, is 'What are the rules of the game, and what is enforced by the staff'?
Aka, The stuff that is allowable and the stuff that isn't allowable.

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Rules

Roleplaying is a requirement on Armageddon MUD. This involves assuming the role of a character of your creation, and acting the way your character would act in the world of Zalanthas. A large amount of documentation regarding the mindset and behavior of Zalanthans is publicly available and all clans have clan-related documentation for their members to follow. Failure to roleplay and disregarding documentation can result in warnings, karma reduction, storage of your character, and temporary and permanent bans.

Rule 1:  Play in the world that is written.  - see bottom of post for more details


You must ask for consent from all visible players in the room before pursuing sexual or torture scenes. There is no such thing as implied consent from past consent grants - you must ask every time. If someone does not give consent, or requests that the scene "fade to black" or "FTB", you must honor that. If you engage in a graphic scene that another player did not consent to, your character will be stored and karma reduced, and your account will be banned for a month at the first occurrence, and your account will be banned permanently on the second occurrence.

Rule 2:  Sex and torture requires vocal consent to all parties present.


There is an exception to the above rule: rape and sexual torture plot lines are forbidden. They cannot be pursued. There is no option to consent or fade to black. They are simply not played out at all. This extends to accusations and threats of rape or sexual torture. If you choose to do this anyway, your character will be stored and your karma reduced at the first occurrence, and your account will be banned permanently on the second occurrence.

Rule 3:  Absolutely no rape or sexual torture.


Your living character may not have any connection to your dead or stored characters. This includes relationships, looting your dead character's corpse, or possessing intimate knowledge that your past character had. We will reject an application that attempts to establish a link between the applying character and a dead character. We will store your character if we find, after approval, that you are establishing a connection to your dead characters.

Rule 4:  Each character needs to be unique, and is not connected in any way to the previous characters you've played.


We may ask a player to take a break from a certain clan, clan group, or group of players if we feel that a player is repeatedly attempting to play with the same set of players across multiple characters in a manner that breaks other rules. We may also ask a player not to play a guild or subguild for a certain period of time. If a player chooses to ignore such a request, their character will be stored on the first occurrence, and will be banned for a month on the second.

Rule 5:  Play different characters


Sharing or discussing relevant in-game information via out-of-character means is discouraged. Relevant information includes but is not limited to information from within the last year, involving living characters, or involving game mechanics. The rule of thumb is: if it is not in a publicly- available helpfile or document, it should not be discussed out-of-game. This goes for use of the OOC command in game as well as any out-of-game communication. If we find that you are sharing or discussing in-game information, punishment can range from a warning, to karma reduction, to storage of your character, to temporary or permanent bans.

Rule 6:  Don't tell other people who you are currently playing.


Coordinating in-game actions or player groups via out-of-character means is discouraged. The only two exceptions to this are arranging playtimes and setting up an approved family or tribal role. If we find evidence that an in-game act was coordinated outside of the game, punishment will be dependent on the severity of the coordination, ranging from a warning, to karma reduction, to storage of your character, to temporary or permanent bans.

Rule 7:  Don't arrange in-character actions out-of-game


Multiplaying - the act of creating multiple accounts to have multiple living characters - is forbidden. Only one living character per player is allowed at a time. Breaking this rule will result in a month-long ban of your main account on the first occurrence, and a permanent ban of your main account on the second. The alternate account will always be banned permanently.

Rule 8:  1 character at a time


Botting - the act of running a script, client triggers, or some other function to completely automate your character's actions - is forbidden. Breaking this rule will result in a warning on the first occurrence, a seven day ban on the second, and a permanent ban if there's a third.

Rule 9:  No triggers or scripts or automations


The rules of the General Discussion Board (GDB) must be followed. By using the GDB, you are agreeing to those rules. Exceptionally poor behavior on the GDB can result in a temporary or permanent game ban if you intentionally attempt to harm another player, promote illegal behavior, or repeatedly act in a way that is unbecoming to the game.

Rule 10: Follow the GDB rules listed here:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,51856.0.html


If you choose to circumvent a temporary or permanent ban by creating a new account, we reserve the right to ban your new account, or allow you to play but refuse to grant requests or karma.

Rule 11: Don't make multiple accounts


Ignorance of the above rules is not considered a defense. If you are playing the game, you are assumed to have familiarized yourself with the above rules.

Rule 12:  Read the rules



Rule #1 is very complex, and there's a lot of things inferred with the world.
Here are some examples:
http://armageddon.org/help/view/What%20You%20Know
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Inappropriate%20vernacular
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Consent
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Rape
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Staff%20Complaint

[SodaDogARM]

After reading through multiple locked threads of this debate I've come to a conclusion we can all be happy with:



Reopen Tuluk.

[HeeBeeGB]

I think part of what is great about MUDs and the community is the anonymity. I suppose I always felt that way, even dating back to MMORPGs like Everquest, where my game handle didn't register my age/sex/gender/skin color/whatever else about me, it was just "Soandso" and that was my handle, and that was that.

I feel it would be intrusive in a Staff interview to ask if they are POC/LGBTQ+, and may even lead to perceived or actual discrimination if they aren't selected. Self-identifying in that way on your account I guess could work, but I'm not sure what the benefits or perceived outcomes would be.

I think it's a reasonable question to ask, but I'm not sure what the path is towards that level of transparency or accountability, particularly on a volunteer run role play intensive multi user domain.

[triste]

👏 👏 👏  mansa's post is really all that needs to be said.

I am not really comfortable with some of the changes and rules that exist outside of those documented here actually! For example now not being allowed to play certain types of gender variant characters that may be offensive, and not being able to say certain words that may be offensive. It is worth noting that someone can read these rules and not realize that certain words and behaviors are banned and get slapped for it. So, we either need to also mention those rules... or remove them...

[triste]

After reading through multiple locked threads of this debate I've come to a conclusion we can all be happy with:



Reopen Tuluk.

Hilarious but a legitimate standpoint. Let Allanak express the main themes of the game and let Tuluk be the opposite to appease those who are upset with the current status quo.

[triste]

Dare I say the Tuluki theme of thought policing is very timely.....

[Saellyn]

Being that it came about almost fifteen years ago? Not particularly.

[triste]

Sorry I forgot it is "doubleplusungood" to talk about thought policing!

[Brokkr]

For example now not being allowed to play certain types of gender variant characters that may be offensive

Not sure what you mean by this.  Feel free to email me or elaborate here, not aware we specifically prohibit anything, although we may judge a hentai-inspired tentacled mutant as being too extreme a mutation.

[triste]

For example now not being allowed to play certain types of gender variant characters that may be offensive

Not sure what you mean by this.  Feel free to email me or elaborate here, not aware we specifically prohibit anything, although we may judge a hentai-inspired tentacled mutant as being too extreme a mutation.

That is basically it. It wasn't my character but if someone wants to play with one mutation over another, who am I to yuck their yum?

Edit: of course as long as they followed rules on mutation. get rid of your arms and ability to wield weapons so you can have hentai tentacles? be my guest!

[NinjaFruitSalad]

I don't think Tuluk will be the magical cure to "racism" that people are perceiving. Odds are it won't turn out to the the utopia people envision it as, and as such, it'll be the staff's fault, who aren't "diverse and sensitive" enough.  And then there's the matter of Allanak still being playable and why players continually choose to play such an awful, horrible place that glorifies real life racism and oppression! *gasp*

Still, I think the title of this thread is odd. If we want to talk about the direction of the game, the real direction, we already have threads discussing topics that are actually relevant, like features to be implemented, code tweaks, dynamics of merchant houses, etc. And yes, bringing back Tuluk is among those discussions as well.

[Malken]

I don't think Tuluk will be the magical cure to "racism" that people are perceiving. Odds are it won't turn out to the the utopia people envision it as, and as such, it'll be the staff's fault, who aren't "diverse and sensitive" enough.

I don't think that's even in the top 10 reasons to play in Tuluk for most players, except for maybe the players who keep mentioning that they are players of color in every single thread lately, but I don't know about them..

Tuluki hate anyone that is not from Tuluk and you better not change a damn thing about that. They even tattoo their citizens at birth to make them legit.

[SodaDogARM]

I was just kidding.

[triste]

I was just kidding.

Lol of course but I took the opportunity to make a joke that was on my mind