GMH/Noble Houses roles

[Dresan]

Based on Shabago's comment

As it stands right now, getting employees/minions to GMH or Noble Houses both seem to be a challenge.

I must admit these roles have zero attraction to me.

It isn't even fear of being squishy because I would probably just roll fighter/master armorsmith prioritize endurance, and craft myself a fancy shield purse. I am confident they could live through most things without too much issue.

GMH might be a bit more interesting because luirs and some of the stuff happening there. However, sadly even at luirs I had more fun there as a indie merchant.

Most of the RP seems to revolve sitting at taverns gossiping about interesting stuff other people are doing and waiting for parties to happen. I am not saying anything isn't going on with politics but I guess having lived through the tuluk vs allanak politics and volcano tossing war everything now seems kinda meh in comparison. I just don't see anything big that makes me want to role something to get involved, no threats, no mysteries...just people waiting to see who gets ganked next.   

I guess i prefer to worry about how to pay my rent or how I am going to manage to get X, Y and Z rather than think about if lord fancy pants fufu wore green pants on a day they should have worn blue pants. Basically I don't think any number of perks will help me want to suddenly play one of these roles.

Maybe if there was more action and intrigue on the rumor boards about what these groups were accomplishing it would help a lot other then just parties. After all every time i see an event with crazy battles or outcomes happening somewhere in the known I can't help but think to myself that byn was there or involved, and maybe i should roll another bynner.

[Barsook]

I agree with this but on a different thought: lack of completion of motives. All of the GMHs/Noble Houses focus on different functions in the game world. Take the example of the GHM's, the all produce different goods (clan-crafted specific goods) without any overlap. Or most of the Noble Houses in Allanak. Sure I can see some motive completion between the likes of House Jal and House Fale (and maybe House Tor)  but mostly it's all monopoly. Maybe finding a way to remove that could help.

[worldofsand]

I feel the same way. When I imagine playing those roles, I can't help but wonder what I would actually do. What would get me to log in on an afternoon with 15 players online? What do I do when there's a drought in the gossip/drama/intrigue mill? What's going on in the world right now that looks interesting from the perspective of a noble or GMH member? My answer would have to be: nothing. Attending parties and making sales is not my idea of a good time, and from where I'm standing, that's all I can see these roles having available to them. I'm sure there's more, yeah, but I can't see what it is. Whatever it may be, there's no sign of it from my point of view. If those grand plots and political dramas are there, they're totally invisible to me so I wouldn't dream of investing my time into a role that only functions if it's there.

[Barsook]

I'm not trying to repeat myself from a different thread but the thought is still related to the topic. Would limiting the GMH down to only one or two members of the trade and agency branches instead of having crafters? It would still allow clan-specific made items to be sold.

The only problem that I see is it might not work for House Kurac because they are a different beast and doesn't function like Salarr or Kadius.

[Dresan]

I feel that both Kadius and Salarr should probably attack and carve Kurac up. Tuluk is shut down for good at this point killing spice profits,and allanak still has outlawed spice. Desert goods aren't as popular to the city as weapons/armors and fine goods which makes kadius and salarr a lot more powerful right now.

Granted many people will be heartbroken at the once very fun house falling from being a great merchant house, but Kurac hasn't been the kurac people used to love with its outriders and kuraci mercenaries for a long time now.  The act of carving kurac up with blur the lines further between Kadius and Salarr as they enter an uneasy alliance for full dominance.

However, that only works for merchant houses, high class nobles and really city roles in general still suffer from allanak just being too damn strong with no enemies and most of the interesting stuff happening outside the walls.

It is why I suggested underground tunnels under allanak and more development for the rinth alleys. Or perhaps a revamping of the sewers  making them worth exploring and going down there to search and gather useful things. Maybe used as another form of traveling through he city in the same way rooftops allow in some areas as well as being a source of potential threat to the city forcing byn/militia to be vigilant or do battles down there.

Basically this would bring action, exploration and adventure a bit closer to home for city based roles and make it a bit more accessible.

[Barsook]

Perhaps you are right with adding more action closer to home as it does solve the problem of lack of motives for the Noble Houses, the Arm, and the Byn.

[Dresan]

It really does solves the problems of many city based race/class/sub-guild choices that don't have as many opportunities for high adventure.

Other then occasionally making their way to Luirs with heavy escort and getting to gamble on how many shit cloaks will die along the way.

[Cabooze]

I feel that both Kadius and Salarr should probably attack and carve Kurac up. Tuluk is shut down for good at this point killing spice profits,and allanak still has outlawed spice. Desert goods aren't as popular to the city as weapons/armors and fine goods which makes kadius and salarr a lot more powerful right now.

...No. In fact, even bigger no, considering that Kurac once held the third largest army ingame (Byn now holds that title) that could repel attacks from either north or south. I've had really huge gripes against a lot of the changes that had taken place simply to further plots and increase playability for some roles, because.. Well. Have you ever played an RTS game with realistic economies? Just in case you haven't, something rather amazing happens when your army you've been paying unreal upkeeps for suddenly gets wiped out: That upkeep goes right into your coffers and you're getting rich AF until you pay out for a new army.

So, uhhhhh... Kurac's Luir's Outpost again, when?

If people require extra spice in a GMH role to garner interest, there's no really great reason not to start opening up new venues of plotlines for the GMHs in question. For Kadius: a plot surrounding the acquisition of cotton seeds or some other fiber/gem/kadius-related goal, gotta go infiltrate tuluk's fields to smuggle it out. Salarr: a new cave got discovered underneath Allanak and the bosses think it's a great idea to start quarrying there. Doing so expands the sewer-network. Kurac: Get swoll again.

[Doublepalli]

Kurac would stomp on Kadius and Salarr, politically, militarily, shadow games. And if politics dont work out - they can up and leave Allanak...like they've done before.

They still have military, they have a vast web of connections,
They have a lucrative business side
And have fingers in every pot

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

[Dresan]

I believe that military they were so proud has been reduced significantly and part of it is composed of what is now called the Garrison which is funded jointly by all GMHs.

Look i digress though, this isn't the main point that I was trying to make, it was just a random thought which I knew would get people triggered.

[Cabooze]

I believe that military they were so proud has been reduced significantly and part of it is composed of what is now called the Garrison which is funded jointly by all GMHs.

Look i digress though, this isn't the main point that I was trying to make just a random thought which I knew would get people triggered.

It's not that I'm triggered (i'm not), it's just that I feel like not a lot of people fully understand Kurac's position in the gameworld. The Fist (kurac's army) still exists separately from the Garrison, and yes, a good portion of the Garrison is ex-Fist. Sorry if it felt like I was attacking you.

I'm in support of more plot-lines for GMH/Noble Houses, though. Little things. Big things. World-changing things. Just as long as important facts aren't forgotten along the way, you know?

[Dresan]

Its all good. I created an alternative idea in the form of a picture. 

[Malken]

I think that GMH/Noble roles are a better fit for people who play Armageddon maybe 2-3 hours a night tops. Like you have all day to think about cool stuff to do in-game to entertain other players and then when you finally get to log in, you can take care of business, meet with a few people and then log back out. Move things at a decent pace but nothing too fast.

If someone plays Armageddon 24/7 then that's definitely not a role for them. I just can't picture someone in 2020 sitting in a tavern and just staring at the monitor waiting for something to happen. At the most, I would probably sit in a tavern waiting for something to happen while playing another game on my 2nd monitor. There's just not enough things to do as a GMH/Noble character to fill out every hours of the day - as an indie hunter/merchant, that's totally the opposite, you always have something to do/hunt/gather, etc.

If I wanted to keep myself entertained 24/7 then I'd definitely choose indie something, or join the Byn - GMH/Noble isn't for that.

So for me, GMH/Noble roles are a good role for someone who doesn't want to make Armageddon his/her day job and just enjoy still being part of Armageddon without worrying too much about keeping themselves entertained. It's even a better fit for vets who want to come back to the game without giving up their RL.

[worldofsand]

Its all good. I created an alternative idea in the form of a picture. 

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

[Barsook]

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

While I want this, I would rather for the journey to it and then the politics to keep it that way. Otherwise, it will be just another monopoly and things will be back to same as old before 2016.

[Cabooze]

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

While I want this, I would rather for the journey to it and then the politics to keep it that way. Otherwise, it will be just another monopoly and things will be back to same as old before 2016.

And really, big fun plots like this would be the fix to all the problems regarding stagnancy with the clans ingame. Fun things can be done, like with the recent opening of more noble houses (good move). It should eventually be allowed for the sponsored players to create their own little groups if they find it possible, Borsail recruiting for wyverns and Tor recruiting for scorpions, even if they don't operate in the same capacity as they once did. You can't exactly go around slaving PCs and effectively force-storing people because of the current policies in place. Three 'aides' per respective noble that are trained as if they are a part of the Houses's military branches could open the windows to a lot more political conflicts and interaction with other facets of the game-world that the Nobles have previously been locked away from for quite some time now.

[valeria]

I kind of think this thread presents a pretty limited view of what aides are and can do.  It really just depends on what you hash out with the noble that has hired you.  I've played probably a million nobles or something like that.  If you want to play an aide, and you interview with a noble, just tell that noble what it is you want to do.  I usually take my lead from the person I'm hiring.

Some ideas for aides that don't just sit in taverns:

You want to leave the City a lot?  I'll sponsor you into the Byn and if you live out your year, I'll hire you to run field ops for me.  What does that mean?  Well, a lot of getting grebbers together to leave the City and get things.  Or tell me about cool places and explore them, because I can't visit cool places myself so I have to live vicariously.  And I'll probably lend you to templars going on trips, because templars going places always need more doods and I want favor points with those templars probably.

You want to be a sneaky?  Congrats, you are now my Guild liaison and you have full permission to sneak around the city tailing people, here, have some poisons and lockpicks, let me know how it goes.

You want to be crafty?  Here's some coin, find yourself some grebbers, go to town.  Let me know when you git good, I might want something.  Toss me some of what you make, it's always nice to have a purse bump.  Or don't and keep it for yourself: see, breaking rules, below.

But if you do actually enjoy sitting in taverns?  Here's your Atrium sponsorship, get to know people, go have fun.  Have lots of mudsex if that's your thing.  I'll probably give you stuff to deliver.

At the end of the day, an aide role is pretty much like any other clan role.  If you don't like the rules, break the rules.  Stuck in the Atrium when you don't want to be there?  Get good at barrier, skip classes.  Stuck in the city but you don't want to be there?  Sneak off to Red Storm and get high.  If you end up working for someone you hate, just quit.  Nobles can't make you swear a life oath for just any old reason now.  And sure, they might get pissed and try to have you hunted down or something, but now you're lurking in the rinth or on the dunes like you would be if you hadn't worked for a noble in the first place.

You don't have to sit in taverns to be a good aide.

[BadSkeelz]

I think the problem that underlies GMH and particularly Noble roles (both nobles and aides) is that there's the perception of there being very little room for growth in those roles. Once your PC is in the role, they're pretty much where they're going to be with all potential tools at their disposal. You have nothing to really do other than indulge in "politicking" (which mostly consists of shit-talking and trying to murder other equally bored PCs) which might net you some meaningless title. Any power you accrue can only really be expended by stamping down on newer PCs and ensuring your own longevity. There is no other goal that is feasible for players, in terms of the game world ("it isn't realistic for my character to accomplish this, even with the aid of all theoretical PC allies") or in terms of what gameplay would allow ("the code doesn't exist to accomplish this, and Staff are unlikely to add it [in a timely manner, at best]"). So the perception is you enter these roles and... that's it. Nothing more to do but draw a stipend and fuck around. Fun in the short term, but not very engaging long-term or likely to bring people back quickly. Hell, you might not even have skills you can realistically level up.

I think the GMH are in a less dire place than Nobles and their flunkies, because the GMH theoretically have a volatile political arena to engage in at Luir's. In Allanak, you have a bunch of nobles with nowhere to go (in terms of advancement) and nothing to really do (since so much of Noble house work is virtual). De-virtualizing these jobs would go a long way towards bringing the Noble houses in to the actual gameworld, but the roles are still trapped within an inherently stagnant political structure that actively discourages player agency. The situation of Allanaki nobles reminds me of the French nobility after the construction of Versailles, where the French Kings neutered the power of their nobles by forcing them all to engage in high prestige but costly and functionally meaningless court ritual. I suspect this is by design, and as currently written I think Armageddon does a pretty good job of creating a Versailles Court Life simulator. But I don't think it's a very interesting arena to play in.

[triste]

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

Takes some guts to post this but it truly says it all.

[Reel Code]

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

Takes some guts to post this but it truly says it all.

I do not personally think this takes "guts" to post since it is just a complaint out of context. The previous 20-something rumors prior to this snippet were 75% combat or criminal related.

[Barsook]

.

[tapas]

I find there to be a lot of problems with GMH/Noble roles.

The weird compartmentalization of each house that drives away any sort of competition. The lack of dynamism among house status. The fact that the structure is so calcified that nothing new has emerged in a thousands of years.

I'm sorry what? There's a merchant house that just sells paleolithic armor and weaponry? Like that's all they do? They arn't scouting out new trade routes? They arn't shipping goods from one end of the world to the other? They just have a monopoly on bone swords? And anyone else that wants to make and sell bone swords is going to get in trouble?

WTF? There's a noble house that just does parties? And that's all they do? They get in trouble if they want to host arena events? Or if they try to expand into the non-party economy?

And don't get me started about aides. I've played with nobles who had all the contacts, multiple thieves, magickers and assassins on their lowkey payroll. They got their spice directly delivered to them and even got templars to brainscan their aides so they can see if they're loyal. What is even the point then?

[BadSkeelz]

. [I saw what you said]

Allanak's problem isn't too many parties, it's that its politics have turned very Tuluki since that City's closure, with behind-closed-doors politicking (and the tried and true "waiting for my opponent to store" strategy) coming to preeminence. It doesn't mean nothing is happening - usually quite the opposite - but much of it is invisible to casual observers. And in Armageddon, perception very quickly becomes reality. If people think a place is boring and not worth playing in, that'll quickly become fact as people go play elsewhere. Or even worse, people buy in to a flawed stereotype and double-down on it. And for the last few years, Allanak has been very Tuluki. The rot really set in when Staff decided to split up Templar ministries.

[BadSkeelz]

What is even the point then?

To exist in the role. This is the only achievable goal by most PCs.

[Barsook]

. [I saw what you said]

Allanak's problem isn't too many parties, it's that its politics have turned very Tuluki since that City's closure, with behind-closed-doors politicking (and the tried and true "waiting for my opponent to store" strategy) coming to preeminence. It doesn't mean nothing is happening - usually quite the opposite - but much of it is invisible to casual observers. And in Armageddon, perception very quickly becomes reality. If people think a place is boring and not worth playing in, that'll quickly become fact as people go play elsewhere. Or even worse, people buy in to a flawed stereotype and double-down on it. And for the last few years, Allanak has been very Tuluki. The rot really set in when Staff decided to split up Templar ministries.

When you say that, I can see that and feel it. As tapas says, nothing feels new anymore since maybe the expansion era. I know that I never played during that era but that's what I'm getting from what I read here.  Speaking of eras, without getting too IC here, what type of era are we in? Is it some post Tuluk Closure era or we moved on from it?

ETA: What was the era after expansion era and before the current one? I kind of want to see a time-line of eras.