GMH/Noble Houses roles

[Dresan]

Based on Shabago's comment

As it stands right now, getting employees/minions to GMH or Noble Houses both seem to be a challenge.

I must admit these roles have zero attraction to me.

It isn't even fear of being squishy because I would probably just roll fighter/master armorsmith prioritize endurance, and craft myself a fancy shield purse. I am confident they could live through most things without too much issue.

GMH might be a bit more interesting because luirs and some of the stuff happening there. However, sadly even at luirs I had more fun there as a indie merchant.

Most of the RP seems to revolve sitting at taverns gossiping about interesting stuff other people are doing and waiting for parties to happen. I am not saying anything isn't going on with politics but I guess having lived through the tuluk vs allanak politics and volcano tossing war everything now seems kinda meh in comparison. I just don't see anything big that makes me want to role something to get involved, no threats, no mysteries...just people waiting to see who gets ganked next.   

I guess i prefer to worry about how to pay my rent or how I am going to manage to get X, Y and Z rather than think about if lord fancy pants fufu wore green pants on a day they should have worn blue pants. Basically I don't think any number of perks will help me want to suddenly play one of these roles.

Maybe if there was more action and intrigue on the rumor boards about what these groups were accomplishing it would help a lot other then just parties. After all every time i see an event with crazy battles or outcomes happening somewhere in the known I can't help but think to myself that byn was there or involved, and maybe i should roll another bynner.

[Barsook]

I agree with this but on a different thought: lack of completion of motives. All of the GMHs/Noble Houses focus on different functions in the game world. Take the example of the GHM's, the all produce different goods (clan-crafted specific goods) without any overlap. Or most of the Noble Houses in Allanak. Sure I can see some motive completion between the likes of House Jal and House Fale (and maybe House Tor)  but mostly it's all monopoly. Maybe finding a way to remove that could help.

[worldofsand]

I feel the same way. When I imagine playing those roles, I can't help but wonder what I would actually do. What would get me to log in on an afternoon with 15 players online? What do I do when there's a drought in the gossip/drama/intrigue mill? What's going on in the world right now that looks interesting from the perspective of a noble or GMH member? My answer would have to be: nothing. Attending parties and making sales is not my idea of a good time, and from where I'm standing, that's all I can see these roles having available to them. I'm sure there's more, yeah, but I can't see what it is. Whatever it may be, there's no sign of it from my point of view. If those grand plots and political dramas are there, they're totally invisible to me so I wouldn't dream of investing my time into a role that only functions if it's there.

[Barsook]

I'm not trying to repeat myself from a different thread but the thought is still related to the topic. Would limiting the GMH down to only one or two members of the trade and agency branches instead of having crafters? It would still allow clan-specific made items to be sold.

The only problem that I see is it might not work for House Kurac because they are a different beast and doesn't function like Salarr or Kadius.

[Dresan]

I feel that both Kadius and Salarr should probably attack and carve Kurac up. Tuluk is shut down for good at this point killing spice profits,and allanak still has outlawed spice. Desert goods aren't as popular to the city as weapons/armors and fine goods which makes kadius and salarr a lot more powerful right now.

Granted many people will be heartbroken at the once very fun house falling from being a great merchant house, but Kurac hasn't been the kurac people used to love with its outriders and kuraci mercenaries for a long time now.  The act of carving kurac up with blur the lines further between Kadius and Salarr as they enter an uneasy alliance for full dominance.

However, that only works for merchant houses, high class nobles and really city roles in general still suffer from allanak just being too damn strong with no enemies and most of the interesting stuff happening outside the walls.

It is why I suggested underground tunnels under allanak and more development for the rinth alleys. Or perhaps a revamping of the sewers  making them worth exploring and going down there to search and gather useful things. Maybe used as another form of traveling through he city in the same way rooftops allow in some areas as well as being a source of potential threat to the city forcing byn/militia to be vigilant or do battles down there.

Basically this would bring action, exploration and adventure a bit closer to home for city based roles and make it a bit more accessible.

[Barsook]

Perhaps you are right with adding more action closer to home as it does solve the problem of lack of motives for the Noble Houses, the Arm, and the Byn.

[Dresan]

It really does solves the problems of many city based race/class/sub-guild choices that don't have as many opportunities for high adventure.

Other then occasionally making their way to Luirs with heavy escort and getting to gamble on how many shit cloaks will die along the way.

[Cabooze]

I feel that both Kadius and Salarr should probably attack and carve Kurac up. Tuluk is shut down for good at this point killing spice profits,and allanak still has outlawed spice. Desert goods aren't as popular to the city as weapons/armors and fine goods which makes kadius and salarr a lot more powerful right now.

...No. In fact, even bigger no, considering that Kurac once held the third largest army ingame (Byn now holds that title) that could repel attacks from either north or south. I've had really huge gripes against a lot of the changes that had taken place simply to further plots and increase playability for some roles, because.. Well. Have you ever played an RTS game with realistic economies? Just in case you haven't, something rather amazing happens when your army you've been paying unreal upkeeps for suddenly gets wiped out: That upkeep goes right into your coffers and you're getting rich AF until you pay out for a new army.

So, uhhhhh... Kurac's Luir's Outpost again, when?

If people require extra spice in a GMH role to garner interest, there's no really great reason not to start opening up new venues of plotlines for the GMHs in question. For Kadius: a plot surrounding the acquisition of cotton seeds or some other fiber/gem/kadius-related goal, gotta go infiltrate tuluk's fields to smuggle it out. Salarr: a new cave got discovered underneath Allanak and the bosses think it's a great idea to start quarrying there. Doing so expands the sewer-network. Kurac: Get swoll again.

[Doublepalli]

Kurac would stomp on Kadius and Salarr, politically, militarily, shadow games. And if politics dont work out - they can up and leave Allanak...like they've done before.

They still have military, they have a vast web of connections,
They have a lucrative business side
And have fingers in every pot

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

[Dresan]

I believe that military they were so proud has been reduced significantly and part of it is composed of what is now called the Garrison which is funded jointly by all GMHs.

Look i digress though, this isn't the main point that I was trying to make, it was just a random thought which I knew would get people triggered.

[Cabooze]

I believe that military they were so proud has been reduced significantly and part of it is composed of what is now called the Garrison which is funded jointly by all GMHs.

Look i digress though, this isn't the main point that I was trying to make just a random thought which I knew would get people triggered.

It's not that I'm triggered (i'm not), it's just that I feel like not a lot of people fully understand Kurac's position in the gameworld. The Fist (kurac's army) still exists separately from the Garrison, and yes, a good portion of the Garrison is ex-Fist. Sorry if it felt like I was attacking you.

I'm in support of more plot-lines for GMH/Noble Houses, though. Little things. Big things. World-changing things. Just as long as important facts aren't forgotten along the way, you know?

[Dresan]

Its all good. I created an alternative idea in the form of a picture. 

[Malken]

I think that GMH/Noble roles are a better fit for people who play Armageddon maybe 2-3 hours a night tops. Like you have all day to think about cool stuff to do in-game to entertain other players and then when you finally get to log in, you can take care of business, meet with a few people and then log back out. Move things at a decent pace but nothing too fast.

If someone plays Armageddon 24/7 then that's definitely not a role for them. I just can't picture someone in 2020 sitting in a tavern and just staring at the monitor waiting for something to happen. At the most, I would probably sit in a tavern waiting for something to happen while playing another game on my 2nd monitor. There's just not enough things to do as a GMH/Noble character to fill out every hours of the day - as an indie hunter/merchant, that's totally the opposite, you always have something to do/hunt/gather, etc.

If I wanted to keep myself entertained 24/7 then I'd definitely choose indie something, or join the Byn - GMH/Noble isn't for that.

So for me, GMH/Noble roles are a good role for someone who doesn't want to make Armageddon his/her day job and just enjoy still being part of Armageddon without worrying too much about keeping themselves entertained. It's even a better fit for vets who want to come back to the game without giving up their RL.

[worldofsand]

Its all good. I created an alternative idea in the form of a picture. 

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

[Barsook]

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

While I want this, I would rather for the journey to it and then the politics to keep it that way. Otherwise, it will be just another monopoly and things will be back to same as old before 2016.

[Cabooze]

I am all for Luirs becoming Kuracs again

While I want this, I would rather for the journey to it and then the politics to keep it that way. Otherwise, it will be just another monopoly and things will be back to same as old before 2016.

And really, big fun plots like this would be the fix to all the problems regarding stagnancy with the clans ingame. Fun things can be done, like with the recent opening of more noble houses (good move). It should eventually be allowed for the sponsored players to create their own little groups if they find it possible, Borsail recruiting for wyverns and Tor recruiting for scorpions, even if they don't operate in the same capacity as they once did. You can't exactly go around slaving PCs and effectively force-storing people because of the current policies in place. Three 'aides' per respective noble that are trained as if they are a part of the Houses's military branches could open the windows to a lot more political conflicts and interaction with other facets of the game-world that the Nobles have previously been locked away from for quite some time now.

[valeria]

I kind of think this thread presents a pretty limited view of what aides are and can do.  It really just depends on what you hash out with the noble that has hired you.  I've played probably a million nobles or something like that.  If you want to play an aide, and you interview with a noble, just tell that noble what it is you want to do.  I usually take my lead from the person I'm hiring.

Some ideas for aides that don't just sit in taverns:

You want to leave the City a lot?  I'll sponsor you into the Byn and if you live out your year, I'll hire you to run field ops for me.  What does that mean?  Well, a lot of getting grebbers together to leave the City and get things.  Or tell me about cool places and explore them, because I can't visit cool places myself so I have to live vicariously.  And I'll probably lend you to templars going on trips, because templars going places always need more doods and I want favor points with those templars probably.

You want to be a sneaky?  Congrats, you are now my Guild liaison and you have full permission to sneak around the city tailing people, here, have some poisons and lockpicks, let me know how it goes.

You want to be crafty?  Here's some coin, find yourself some grebbers, go to town.  Let me know when you git good, I might want something.  Toss me some of what you make, it's always nice to have a purse bump.  Or don't and keep it for yourself: see, breaking rules, below.

But if you do actually enjoy sitting in taverns?  Here's your Atrium sponsorship, get to know people, go have fun.  Have lots of mudsex if that's your thing.  I'll probably give you stuff to deliver.

At the end of the day, an aide role is pretty much like any other clan role.  If you don't like the rules, break the rules.  Stuck in the Atrium when you don't want to be there?  Get good at barrier, skip classes.  Stuck in the city but you don't want to be there?  Sneak off to Red Storm and get high.  If you end up working for someone you hate, just quit.  Nobles can't make you swear a life oath for just any old reason now.  And sure, they might get pissed and try to have you hunted down or something, but now you're lurking in the rinth or on the dunes like you would be if you hadn't worked for a noble in the first place.

You don't have to sit in taverns to be a good aide.

[BadSkeelz]

I think the problem that underlies GMH and particularly Noble roles (both nobles and aides) is that there's the perception of there being very little room for growth in those roles. Once your PC is in the role, they're pretty much where they're going to be with all potential tools at their disposal. You have nothing to really do other than indulge in "politicking" (which mostly consists of shit-talking and trying to murder other equally bored PCs) which might net you some meaningless title. Any power you accrue can only really be expended by stamping down on newer PCs and ensuring your own longevity. There is no other goal that is feasible for players, in terms of the game world ("it isn't realistic for my character to accomplish this, even with the aid of all theoretical PC allies") or in terms of what gameplay would allow ("the code doesn't exist to accomplish this, and Staff are unlikely to add it [in a timely manner, at best]"). So the perception is you enter these roles and... that's it. Nothing more to do but draw a stipend and fuck around. Fun in the short term, but not very engaging long-term or likely to bring people back quickly. Hell, you might not even have skills you can realistically level up.

I think the GMH are in a less dire place than Nobles and their flunkies, because the GMH theoretically have a volatile political arena to engage in at Luir's. In Allanak, you have a bunch of nobles with nowhere to go (in terms of advancement) and nothing to really do (since so much of Noble house work is virtual). De-virtualizing these jobs would go a long way towards bringing the Noble houses in to the actual gameworld, but the roles are still trapped within an inherently stagnant political structure that actively discourages player agency. The situation of Allanaki nobles reminds me of the French nobility after the construction of Versailles, where the French Kings neutered the power of their nobles by forcing them all to engage in high prestige but costly and functionally meaningless court ritual. I suspect this is by design, and as currently written I think Armageddon does a pretty good job of creating a Versailles Court Life simulator. But I don't think it's a very interesting arena to play in.

[triste]

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

Takes some guts to post this but it truly says it all.

[Reel Code]

What do you want Tuluk back for? Allanak has become Tuluk.

Code Select Expand


33: [Sun May 31 21:52:01 2020] Opportunities in Indentured Servitude
34: [Wed Jun  3 13:42:07 2020] New Kuraci Apprentice Dealer
35: [Wed Jun  3 20:57:05 2020] Word of An Auction and Party
36: [Wed Jun  3 21:32:47 2020] Word of An Auction and Party Location
37: [Wed Jun  3 21:59:26 2020] A Bountiful Harvest Contest.
38: [Sat Jun  6 16:44:02 2020] Annual Cook off at the Ocotillo Festival Returns!!!
39: [Sun Jun  7 11:08:03 2020] A Few Good Servants
40: [Tue Jun  9 18:22:53 2020] A Falish Incident
41: [Wed Jun 10 20:31:38 2020] Artists of all Walks Sought!
42: [Thu Jun 11 10:15:11 2020] City Ministries Monuments Auction!!

Takes some guts to post this but it truly says it all.

I do not personally think this takes "guts" to post since it is just a complaint out of context. The previous 20-something rumors prior to this snippet were 75% combat or criminal related.

[Barsook]

.

[tapas]

I find there to be a lot of problems with GMH/Noble roles.

The weird compartmentalization of each house that drives away any sort of competition. The lack of dynamism among house status. The fact that the structure is so calcified that nothing new has emerged in a thousands of years.

I'm sorry what? There's a merchant house that just sells paleolithic armor and weaponry? Like that's all they do? They arn't scouting out new trade routes? They arn't shipping goods from one end of the world to the other? They just have a monopoly on bone swords? And anyone else that wants to make and sell bone swords is going to get in trouble?

WTF? There's a noble house that just does parties? And that's all they do? They get in trouble if they want to host arena events? Or if they try to expand into the non-party economy?

And don't get me started about aides. I've played with nobles who had all the contacts, multiple thieves, magickers and assassins on their lowkey payroll. They got their spice directly delivered to them and even got templars to brainscan their aides so they can see if they're loyal. What is even the point then?

[BadSkeelz]

. [I saw what you said]

Allanak's problem isn't too many parties, it's that its politics have turned very Tuluki since that City's closure, with behind-closed-doors politicking (and the tried and true "waiting for my opponent to store" strategy) coming to preeminence. It doesn't mean nothing is happening - usually quite the opposite - but much of it is invisible to casual observers. And in Armageddon, perception very quickly becomes reality. If people think a place is boring and not worth playing in, that'll quickly become fact as people go play elsewhere. Or even worse, people buy in to a flawed stereotype and double-down on it. And for the last few years, Allanak has been very Tuluki. The rot really set in when Staff decided to split up Templar ministries.

[BadSkeelz]

What is even the point then?

To exist in the role. This is the only achievable goal by most PCs.

[Barsook]

. [I saw what you said]

Allanak's problem isn't too many parties, it's that its politics have turned very Tuluki since that City's closure, with behind-closed-doors politicking (and the tried and true "waiting for my opponent to store" strategy) coming to preeminence. It doesn't mean nothing is happening - usually quite the opposite - but much of it is invisible to casual observers. And in Armageddon, perception very quickly becomes reality. If people think a place is boring and not worth playing in, that'll quickly become fact as people go play elsewhere. Or even worse, people buy in to a flawed stereotype and double-down on it. And for the last few years, Allanak has been very Tuluki. The rot really set in when Staff decided to split up Templar ministries.

When you say that, I can see that and feel it. As tapas says, nothing feels new anymore since maybe the expansion era. I know that I never played during that era but that's what I'm getting from what I read here.  Speaking of eras, without getting too IC here, what type of era are we in? Is it some post Tuluk Closure era or we moved on from it?

ETA: What was the era after expansion era and before the current one? I kind of want to see a time-line of eras.

[Dresan]

If you end up working for someone you hate, just quit.  Nobles can't make you swear a life oath for just any old reason now.  And sure, they might get pissed and try to have you hunted down or something, but now you're lurking in the rinth or on the dunes like you would be if you hadn't worked for a noble in the first place.

I think the problem is people opt to skip the joining part and jump in to the not working for them part. I don't disagree you can make this role interesting but you can do that for almost any role and have much more to work with.  I just don't see these guys doing anything impactful outside of parties and ganking each other.

Again, I am not saying there isn't more to the roles then parties but I have yet to see anything that makes me want to play one of these roles.

This isn't a criticism on anyone in particular just trying to make the point that perhaps the reason people aren't joining into these roles isn't because there aren't enough perks but that the role just doesn't seem very fun or impactful to play in.   

[Dresan]

 And just to add Allanak politics is nothing like Tuluk.

A constant threat from the south or some other problem plaguing them. Kyrl, rogue mages, red fangs. My indie was one of several to ranger help a certain noble to gather thorns and roots to build that barricade between the grey and the morins.  These are things that indies and nobles worked together to tackle actual problem that saw results.

Additionally, public opinion and reputation mattered in Tuluk. The parties were often social and literal executions.

Tuluk had its problem but their nobles often open the door to politics for dusty grebbers and rich merchants alike.

[valeria]

My response was more to people who have said "I have no idea what I'd even do other than sit in a tavern" rather than people who don't enjoy playing those roles.  Not enjoying playing those roles is legit.  Not all roles are for all players, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Not everyone here is a Bartle socializer.  Other people really enjoy the parties and the snipy social politics.  Both are completely legit ways to want to play the game.  My intent was to offer ideas for people who wanted to bridge different aspects, not to tell people what to play.

I don't care what you play.  I barely even go here right now. 

[triste]

And just to add Allanak politics is nothing like Tuluk.

Tuluk always had a problem just around the corner and they were working with every indie in the city to solve.

A constant threat from the south or some other problem plaguing them. Kyrl, rogue mages, red fangs. My indie was one of several to ranger help a certain noble to gather thorns and roots to build that barricade between the grey and the morins.  These are things that indies and nobles worked together to tackle actual problem that saw results.

Additionally, public opinion and reputation mattered in Tuluk. The parties were also execution.

Tuluk had its problem but their nobles open the door to politics for dusty grebbers and rich merchants alike.

Tuluk closed so long ago that we may all be remembering it with fond nostalgia, but I would agree that Tuluki Nobles/Templars were better at involving commoners. One factor, I think, is the Tuluki inks instantly and cleanly registered a degree of trust that would let common citizens randomly get involved in plots or allowed to have an audience. In contrast to the wide player involvement I saw in Tuluk, my interactions with Allanaki nobility often goes in the opposite direction: commoners can seem like nothing more than hurdles for nobles and templars to vault over in their max-speed, 500m dash for crumpets and mudescks.

There are some nobles / noble bastards who have been good about involving commoners, and I've kudosed them. I feel like the main metric for noble RP should be involvement. Even if it's throwing one simple emote as their high-ness pass a commoner instead of speed walking by like a piece of cardboard with a jet engine attached. People who get these high profile roles should take pride and act like role models.

[Kyviantre]

I...actually like playing in the Noble Houses.  Or with them as a paid-under-the-table informant type.  Never really saw the interest in the GMH (I've played in one, once that I can recall, because it made sense for the character to accept the kind offer of free food and easy spying ), but Noble Houses, I enjoy.

But equally, I tend to hate playing explorer roam-all-over-the-place types.  I've had a couple of rogue gicks who've done that, but even then, I've never been excessively driven to explore, just pootle around trying to find 'victims' to bother (to say hi, not raid - I'm usually craving the long-term social interactions!).

Politicking is my jam, and I've never played a sponsored role.  Some of us...like that side of things?

I guess what I'm saying is, by the metric of this thread, lets close down 80% of the gameworld because I have no desire to explore, and we'll all get our politicking socks on...except...that will make some of you sad, so maybe not?  Isn't it nice to have a range of people?  Just because -you- don't like XYZ, doesn't mean there are some of us who consider it one of our happy places to dip into every few characters...and I don't think I count as a casual couple-of-hours player either ...

I will admit, society parties are my idea of hell though...thankfully, as a European, I have a legit excuse to avoid most of those!

[Reel Code]

Most of the RP seems to revolve sitting at taverns gossiping about interesting stuff other people are doing and waiting for parties to happen. I am not saying anything isn't going on with politics but I guess having lived through the tuluk vs allanak politics and volcano tossing war everything now seems kinda meh in comparison. I just don't see anything big that makes me want to role something to get involved, no threats, no mysteries...just people waiting to see who gets ganked next.   

RP in taverns is perhaps the least interesting part of the role and generally only fits the bill when there's nothing going on, there is no one available in their social sphere, or the player is being unimaginative. I would personally like to believe that because there is scant tavern sitting PCs lately that most people are out doing stuff.

There is a hierarchy for levels of competence among aides. What you are describing is the least skilled tier of aides -- the Great Value brand that a noble will buy because they either can't attract a great aide or they can't afford it. You have better examples such as Kolorille, Nell, and Brand who might be seen to sit in taverns occasionally but always had "things going on". They accomplished this through careful use of contacts so that they never needed to sit in a tavern. Each of these examples should be noted to have been more akin to high-class gangsters than limp-wristed partiers.

An aide should actively work to do many things, including:
1.) Make new contacts and convince them to give information willingly/unwillingly. This can be accomplished through deception or simple observation.
e.g. Bad aide: Lucy sits at the bar and is boring so the only people she talks to are people who want sex because she's attractive.
e.g. Good aide: Lucy has arranged to meet regularly with any of her 15 contacts across 10 organizations to craft, play games, socialize, cook, etc. This provides her with the most opportunity to learn things or gain resources that can assist in the advancement of their noble. She is, in contrast to boring Lucy, a well-developed personality that people love to roleplay around. The meta-currency of the game is interesting RP and aides must be affluent.

2.) Anticipate the needs of their noble, be proactive toward the noble's goals, and create opportunities for the noble to exploit in politics.
e.g. Bad aide: John sits at the tavern and reports to their noble what they read on the rumor boards and nothing else, waiting for information to come to them. The noble might as well just go read the rumor board themselves.
e.g. Good aide: John finds out what his noble's goals are and breaks them down into digestible steps. He decides which parts of the puzzle that he can assist with and goes step-by-step to gather the resources or information required to accomplish the goal. If the noble's goal is ruin Lady Foofy, then John's goal is to find the weakness to exploit either in Foofy's aide or the noble. If the noble's goal is to build something, John organizes the grebbing parties or barters with the merchants to acquire the best deal.

Maybe if there was more action and intrigue on the rumor boards about what these groups were accomplishing it would help a lot other then just parties. After all every time i see an event with crazy battles or outcomes happening somewhere in the known I can't help but think to myself that byn was there or involved, and maybe i should roll another bynner.

Rumor board posts almost always just barely scratch the surface in the political realm. Information is power. Unfortunately, some players (or their PCs) might hold onto information unnecessarily so I understand your point. I think it would be nice if we could strike a careful balance but that can be difficult. In my experience a rumor board post which antagonizes causes a huge fight between two sides.


tl;dr
If you want to play an interesting aide or have fun in politics then there are clans you can join to learn. Nobles should be teaching their servants as well as the clan dedicated to teaching aides.

[Fenneko]

Some people in this thread are being disingenuous about their comments regarding aides, downplaying its challenges. Let us not use Aide to refer to tavernsitters and mudsexers as this slutshaming community loves to, let's call those Servants or less. See below.

Being an Aide is the most difficult role in the game. You face scrutiny at all levels, outside and inside your House. You are a target. You are a pawn. A chip. Bait. You are property. You are restricted. You are lied to. You are stalked. You are murdered more than any other role in the game. Your boss is the most likely one to end up killing you.

I enjoyed it, but to be a good aide you need to be driven enough to enjoy RP despite all these dangers. It is not a flexible role at all. You will be led to believe you have something like safety or power or wealth but you will actually have none of that.

But, sometimes I enjoy having that virtual slave collar on and I get into a role. But it is not a happy place. It is a stressful challenge. Nothing else in arm gets close.

Oh, and I am not talking about bar sitting and mudsex. I am referring to being a vetted, lifesworn aide with the trust of your employer and responsibility. Hardest role in the game, not for everyone, most drop out long before they get to that part because the taste of the dullness, danger and harassment is too much.

Finally, my opinion. The title of Aide belongs only to those who can tolerate it for a few IC years. Everyone with less trust than a proper Aide should be given lesser titles, such as servant or whatever. Much respect for the rare good noble boss who understands the role. Valeria I am looking at you, thank you for setting the right standard.

[Bast]

Aides can be awesome...I've had some wonderful Aides and horrible aides. I have been on both sides of the Noble/servant relationship. What really matters is who you work for and how you pair with them. As a noble is very hard to find a good aide that's actually willing to work. I think some players are drawn to this role because it seems like an easy way to survive and get spoiled in game. I also think that gives a lot of wrong impressions on what this role can be.

As a noble if I have active Aide that I can trust to get things done I will have endless amount of politicking, information gathering, and plots to involve them with regardless as to their skill set. If I have drama prone Aide thats constantly dragging me into their personal dramas and making my Nobles life harder...well I have lot less use for them and certainly don't trust them to do anything important. House matters too..any field aide should have tons of potential. Just going into this roles though know your characters only job is to make another players life easier. If you are bored to death and tavern sitting its good guess you are doing something wrong.

[Bast]

I kind of think this thread presents a pretty limited view of what aides are and can do.  It really just depends on what you hash out with the noble that has hired you.  I've played probably a million nobles or something like that.  If you want to play an aide, and you interview with a noble, just tell that noble what it is you want to do.  I usually take my lead from the person I'm hiring.

Some ideas for aides that don't just sit in taverns:

You want to leave the City a lot?  I'll sponsor you into the Byn and if you live out your year, I'll hire you to run field ops for me.  What does that mean?  Well, a lot of getting grebbers together to leave the City and get things.  Or tell me about cool places and explore them, because I can't visit cool places myself so I have to live vicariously.  And I'll probably lend you to templars going on trips, because templars going places always need more doods and I want favor points with those templars probably.

You want to be a sneaky?  Congrats, you are now my Guild liaison and you have full permission to sneak around the city tailing people, here, have some poisons and lockpicks, let me know how it goes.

You want to be crafty?  Here's some coin, find yourself some grebbers, go to town.  Let me know when you git good, I might want something.  Toss me some of what you make, it's always nice to have a purse bump.  Or don't and keep it for yourself: see, breaking rules, below.

But if you do actually enjoy sitting in taverns?  Here's your Atrium sponsorship, get to know people, go have fun.  Have lots of mudsex if that's your thing.  I'll probably give you stuff to deliver.

At the end of the day, an aide role is pretty much like any other clan role.  If you don't like the rules, break the rules.  Stuck in the Atrium when you don't want to be there?  Get good at barrier, skip classes.  Stuck in the city but you don't want to be there?  Sneak off to Red Storm and get high.  If you end up working for someone you hate, just quit.  Nobles can't make you swear a life oath for just any old reason now.  And sure, they might get pissed and try to have you hunted down or something, but now you're lurking in the rinth or on the dunes like you would be if you hadn't worked for a noble in the first place.

You don't have to sit in taverns to be a good aide.

All of this!!!

[Dresan]

Just to be clear, I would definitely play a city based role in Tuluk. I never had to in order to get involved in politics but would certainly do so.

My point was I don't think adding or removing perks for these roles would get me to  want to play them more. Not because i hate social roles but mostly because I don't see them making any impact or being involved in anything other then the festivals, parties and ganking someone. This isn't about action or exploration. This is about seeing the impact these character should be having on the the people of the city.

To me there is this huge investment in high class lifestyle roles and yet nothing seems to change in allanak. Again, I like social roles, but i would rather play a merchant in luirs. BAsically  'Interesting shit is happening here, it effects everyone and it ain't a party ' rumors would go a long way to making me want to try one of these roles vs some coded perk.

I am really hoping Allanak losing the valley to an ever expanding gith/mantis alliance, so they there is a system shock to the city due to resource shortages giving the city role a chance to step up and accomplish worthwhile things.

[Heade]

@OP

I think a big part of the reason various roles are lackluster is due to the lack of an external enemy. This game is completely different than it was back when Tuluk was active. When Allanak and Tuluk were engaged in hot/cold wars in the past, that provided the primary narrative of the game world. The two strongest powers in the known were locked in a perpetual struggle of ideologies. It was a story that drew parallels to the US/USSR cold war era, which provided an amazing setting for other stories of love, loss, betrayal, and murder to take place against that backdrop.

It gave people from either area of the world a unifying sense of patriotism against an external enemy. It made sayings like, "Shade", or "His Shadow" more striking and vibrant because it represented a political ideology that had an existing counterpoint in the world. It was Capitalism vs. Communism. You could be saying the wrong thing to the wrong person. Spies, insurgents, and enemy soldiers were a real concern.

And it is against this backdrop that all of your smaller, local plots took place. The betrayals within a clan were so much more impactful and meaningful when there was also an external threat. The Byn were more than just glorified guards. They were neutral soldiers of fortune that fought for whoever filled their purse with sid. Luir's was more than just an outpost in the middle of nowhere. It was a strategic middle point between two fearsome tigers, providing whoever had it with a staging point for invasion. Noble houses weren't ONLY squabbling amongst themselves. They had duties to their patron within that greater struggle. The GMH's existed in a middle ground, providing goods to both sides of the ongoing war, delicately balancing their own survival with their need to maintain neutrality for the sake of their northern/southern holdings.

Without the backdrop of that external enemy, without the political and ideological intrigue, all plots focus on petty internal struggles. The lack of any unifying ideology or external enemy causes people to get bored and continuously drives those plots to be more and more petty, so that we get lots of threads about petty reasons for murder.

Tuluk wasn't just another city state. It represented the ideological counterpoint to Allanak that created the entire premise under which we played this game. The impact of not having that external enemy has created a massive ripple effect that touches nearly every interaction we've had in the game since it has started to fade from the collective memory of the playerbase. Armageddon used to be a massive ocean of depth. Now we play in a puddle.

[SpyGuy]

A constant threat from the south or some other problem plaguing them. Kyrl, rogue mages, red fangs. My indie was one of several to ranger help a certain noble to gather thorns and roots to build that barricade between the grey and the morins.  These are things that indies and nobles worked together to tackle actual problem that saw results.

Hey, you might be talking about something I started!  I played a Jihaen, Dalen Dasari, that got the work started on the road/defenses to Morin's. Obviously that required a lot of staff involvement and if I remember correctly (this was 2012) it was sort of a compromise but maybe staff already had plans for defenses going before I arrived on the scene. I originally wanted to do a more direct confrontation with the kyrl to take control of more of the Grey. From report responses and IC events, it became clear that the kryl threat was there to stay and any sort of prolonged battle with kryl wasn't supported by staff. So increasing defenses near Morin's seemed a good compromise to give my templar purpose and involve the player base.

For better or for worse my vision at the time was to try to involve as many people and give the Tuluki player base what they want. Tuluk was always popular with indy hunters and bards. So we first started patrols of the north road, bringing in some "trustworthy" citizens as a way to get a bunch of people involved in something fairly simple. I also fully admit I didn't want to play a badass Judge Dredd type without actually fighting anything and there was no direct conflict with the south then. At times we got staff animations during patrols, other times they were uneventful since we just kept it close to the road, but at the very least it created opportunities for spur of the moment RP among different groups.

Then we had a funding drive to get needed supplies for the defenses but that turned out to be too successful, indy hunters can bring in a -lot- of supplies if asked so that fizzled out quick after we met the quotas set by staff and I never wanted to see another wooden pole again.  A bit later Dalen, working with Elrum who was important in organizing all this, started the Citizen's Call weekly (later biweekly) RPT that also sought to gather people together to get them stoked towards working for the city's benefit. The Call was organized by Dalen but I never ran it, partially due to Jihaen's being extra secretive with their knowledge. It ran off guest speakers who Dalen would cajole into participating from different groups, so maybe a minor singing competition one week then a lesson on herblore the next. It also included sparring because we had the facility for it and it drew in players that otherwise might just be out hunting. OOC I didn't want to be the center of the event because I wanted it to last past the character's death and IC Dalen was intentionally kind of dull. Which worked, I believe it got taken up by others after he died and continued for a few more months.

I'd also add this definitely wasn't the only thing that I was doing with that character, templar PCs should have their fingers in a lot of pies.

Tl;dr: From my experience you need to work with what you've got player-base wise and be willing to think 'small but interesting' when dealing with staff's vision since PC leadership is at best middle management in the established clans.

[Evilone]

Aides can be awesome...I've had some wonderful Aides and horrible aides. I have been on both sides of the Noble/servant relationship. What really matters is who you work for and how you pair with them. As a noble is very hard to find a good aide that's actually willing to work. I think some players are drawn to this role because it seems like an easy way to survive and get spoiled in game. I also think that gives a lot of wrong impressions on what this role can be.

As a noble if I have active Aide that I can trust to get things done I will have endless amount of politicking, information gathering, and plots to involve them with regardless as to their skill set. If I have drama prone Aide thats constantly dragging me into their personal dramas and making my Nobles life harder...well I have lot less use for them and certainly don't trust them to do anything important. House matters too..any field aide should have tons of potential. Just going into this roles though know your characters only job is to make another players life easier. If you are bored to death and tavern sitting its good guess you are doing something wrong.

Zari was a great aide! I miss the get togethers between Rhodran and Yasir, and having aides like Zari and Flaire there to serve our whims For me, Tuluk was such a better place to play in, and I enjoyed having conflict to the south.

[HortaCulture]

A constant threat from the south or some other problem plaguing them. Kyrl, rogue mages, red fangs. My indie was one of several to ranger help a certain noble to gather thorns and roots to build that barricade between the grey and the morins.  These are things that indies and nobles worked together to tackle actual problem that saw results.

It ran off guest speakers who Dalen would cajole into participating from different groups, so maybe a minor singing competition one week then a lesson on herblore the next. It also included sparring because we had the facility for it and it drew in players that otherwise might just be out hunting.

Hey I remember Citizens Call! I had a PC give a lesson at one of those. It was totally great. It was like the everyman's life skill college. It made perfect sense ICly and it was a rewarding experience for the time spent. Someone would like teach skill woodworking and then you'd all spar and everyone would try to be acting like the most loyal Tuluki because of Templars and such being present. Good times.

[SpyGuy]

Hey I remember Citizens Call! I had a PC give a lesson at one of those. It was totally great. It was like the everyman's life skill college. It made perfect sense ICly and it was a rewarding experience for the time spent. Someone would like teach skill woodworking and then you'd all spar and everyone would try to be acting like the most loyal Tuluki because of Templars and such being present. Good times.

I'm glad you liked it! The teach command is so underused in my experience and can lead to some really interesting RP. I know I've gotten some ideas on how to emote better by listening to people explain how to actually follow tracks or use a shield. We were lucky that Tuluk's culture and citizen tattoos gave an IC excuse to get all those people together and share knowledge. Dead hunters aren't making anyone any money and are only feeding the damn kryl.

[Barsook]

I agree with this but on a different thought: lack of completion of motives. All of the GMHs/Noble Houses focus on different functions in the game world. Take the example of the GHM's, the all produce different goods (clan-crafted specific goods) without any overlap. Or most of the Noble Houses in Allanak. Sure I can see some motive completion between the likes of House Jal and House Fale (and maybe House Tor)  but mostly it's all monopoly. Maybe finding a way to remove that could help.

I thought about this for maybe a week now and realized how wrong I'm about the lack of completion of motives hence the neco. Looking at the big three (playable) GMH's, there is a triangle between them. Kurac competes with Kadius for sandcloth, certain food and woodcraft related items while Kurac competes with armour-like items with Salarr. But the problem with this, it seems to only occur with Kurac rather than a true triangle. Well, maybe with Salarr competing with Kadius with leather goods.

There is, in a way, a resource competition happening just not the way we want it seems. Or maybe GMH's should really be based in Luir's Outpost based on current IC events that started back in 2016 but still have some political power in Allanak. Maybe Allanak should be nobility focused and the Outpost be GMH focused. The theme does seem to lean on what I said for both areas. But is there enough staff members and players to support this?

Just my two sids here.

ETA: Or there is too subtly rather than Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal (TM).

[Fredd]

TBH. I have always felt Kurac was way to big, and way to strong to be healthy for the game. If someone wanted to avoid Kurac, they would have to play in Cenyr or Morins. That's kind of a crazy reach.  They aren't touched by anyone. No organized group wants to mess with this merchant house. not even noble houses, templars and raiders living in a city of lowlives and thieves. I've never been a Kuraci family member, so maybe there's some sort of really good reason for this I don't know. But even if there is, I feel the game would be a bit healthier if they were weakened.

Aide roles are fun, especially if you have an active Noble to work for. A good noble generates plots for an aide to divvy out among the populace. Some of those plots go to other Noble House PC's, some go to independents. But they are much more than tavern sitters. A good Aide should have problems sitting in taverns because they have to constantly be on The Way with people, bouncing between heads of fifty different people begging for attention. And doing that in the constant scroll of a tavern can be... Insaneifying.

Playing an Aide for an Active Lord is the most RP intensive role I have ever played in this game, aside from my time as a Byn Sergeant. You re CONSTANTLY working on things. Is there gossip? Absolutely. But RARELY is it about someone's fashion sense. Unless it's really, absurdly, bad.

Edit: Also, currently, there seems to be more active noble houses then I have seen in a long while. Which means a LOT more political play.  And probably more play involving the Senate, which I have always found to be pretty neat.

[Aruven]

Aides can be rewarding roles with the right nobles, with plenty to do. I feel like the group of active nobles/templars socially and the way they choose to handle aides greatly influences the longevity of your aide.

I've for a long time been against the gradual stripping down of merchant houses.

[HeeBeeGB]

Kurac (as before) certainly falls in line with that line of thinking, Fredd, but I do think they have weakened considerably in the last few RL years. Certainly in the last 10 RL years. They were once completely untouchable, involved in high level psionic and magic activity, and basically capable of getting away with murder (often).

I think the Garrison was a good measure to try and balance the powers that be. Weirdly, carts and wagons also are a strange balance for the powers that be. Things currently feel a bit more even keeled among the GMH.

I wish there were more MMH competing for viability amidst the economic market, but we also only have so many players, and so many plot lines to pursue.

[Gentleboy]

The issue with Kurac versus other houses, especially currently,

is that Kurac has the most players on. It's also one of the only places where Breeds, elves, and dwarves can work honest jobs (mostly)

I think it's ridiculous honestly that the leaders of GMHs aren't on as often and it hurts everyone. When I was playing as a noble, I had to beg staff to get the hours of when to contact someone. And even then, they were only on once.

I get that real life happens, but, the choices of leaders lately has been poor due to their playtimes or just dropping off the map all together.

[Is Friday]

The issue with Kurac versus other houses, especially currently,

is that Kurac has the most players on. It's also one of the only places where Breeds, elves, and dwarves can work honest jobs (mostly)

I think it's ridiculous honestly that the leaders of GMHs aren't on as often and it hurts everyone. When I was playing as a noble, I had to beg staff to get the hours of when to contact someone. And even then, they were only on once.

I get that real life happens, but, the choices of leaders lately has been poor due to their playtimes or just dropping off the map all together.

I disagree.

I think this is a second order effect of having an entity or organization serving the entire playerbase. I bet most GMH leaders log 10-30 hours a week. The problem you're describing is that they couldn't spend 2-3 hours a week with your PC. The way GMH is setup is really overburdening for 1 PC and no one wants to play these leadership roles because of this.

[Barsook]

Staff, is it possible to the statistics of log in hours of said roles?

[Pew Pew]

TBH. I have always felt Kurac was way to big, and way to strong to be healthy for the game. If someone wanted to avoid Kurac, they would have to play in Cenyr or Morins. That's kind of a crazy reach.  They aren't touched by anyone. No organized group wants to mess with this merchant house. not even noble houses, templars and raiders living in a city of lowlives and thieves. I've never been a Kuraci family member, so maybe there's some sort of really good reason for this I don't know. But even if there is, I feel the game would be a bit healthier if they were weakened.

I disagree, here is why:

Kadius: Reach in Nak, Luirs and they OWN Morins
Kurac: Reach in Red storm, Nak, and Luirs
Salarr: Reach in Nak, Luirs, (they have a ware house in red storm)

To me it is not a power issue, it is a playability issue based on what positions are available to play.

Kadius:
Family members
Merchants
Crafters

Salarr:
Family members
Merchants
Crafters

Kurac:
Family Member
Merchants/Dealer
Crafters
Host/Hostess
Sandmasters

If there are more positions in the other houses please chime in, but this is what I have seen in my experience.

[Blink]

...

I think it's ridiculous honestly that the leaders of GMHs aren't on as often and it hurts everyone. When I was playing as a noble, I had to beg staff to get the hours of when to contact someone. And even then, they were only on once.

I get that real life happens, but, the choices of leaders lately has been poor due to their playtimes or just dropping off the map all together.

With my first (and probably last)  GMH leader I averaged about 25 hours a week.  A couple of weeks into the role, I started playing a lot in off-peak times just so that I could escape the constant harassment of nobles/templars and their aides.  There was a lot of other stuff to get done besides spending time with nobles -- like planning showings, deciding on items to show, researching stuff, keeping IG records, etc etc. and god forbid that I could do any character development and have my PC have a personal life.   While it may have been perfectly IC for the nobles to be demanding, it was not playable for me as a first time GMH leader.  I will never forget when a noble ordered my PC to give them an elaborate showing the next IG day (ie. in a RL hour) complete with refreshments and wouldn't take no for an answer. 

It's okay for nobles and templars to be rude and demanding and believe they are the only customer the merchant has.    It's not okay for their players to be that way.   

[Barsook]

TBH. I have always felt Kurac was way to big, and way to strong to be healthy for the game. If someone wanted to avoid Kurac, they would have to play in Cenyr or Morins. That's kind of a crazy reach.  They aren't touched by anyone. No organized group wants to mess with this merchant house. not even noble houses, templars and raiders living in a city of lowlives and thieves. I've never been a Kuraci family member, so maybe there's some sort of really good reason for this I don't know. But even if there is, I feel the game would be a bit healthier if they were weakened.

I disagree, here is why:

Kadius: Reach in Nak, Luirs and they OWN Morins
Kurac: Reach in Red storm, Nak, and Luirs
Salarr: Reach in Nak, Luirs, (they have a ware house in red storm)

To me it is not a power issue, it is a playability issue based on what positions are available to play.

Kadius:
Family members
Merchants
Crafters

Salarr:
Family members
Merchants
Crafters

Kurac:
Family Member
Merchants/Dealer
Crafters
Host/Hostess
Sandmasters

If there are more positions in the other houses please chime in, but this is what I have seen in my experience.

Agreed Kurac has too many positions while the others have three. But, couldn't other unofficial, non-coded positions be used? Again, it points back to leadership not power of a GMH from player characters. Then again, power can be created from good leadership.

[Is Friday]

...

I think it's ridiculous honestly that the leaders of GMHs aren't on as often and it hurts everyone. When I was playing as a noble, I had to beg staff to get the hours of when to contact someone. And even then, they were only on once.

I get that real life happens, but, the choices of leaders lately has been poor due to their playtimes or just dropping off the map all together.

With my first (and probably last)  GMH leader I averaged about 25 hours a week.  A couple of weeks into the role, I started playing a lot in off-peak times just so that I could escape the constant harassment of nobles/templars and their aides.  There was a lot of other stuff to get done besides spending time with nobles -- like planning showings, deciding on items to show, researching stuff, keeping IG records, etc etc. and god forbid that I could do any character development and have my PC have a personal life.   While it may have been perfectly IC for the nobles to be demanding, it was not playable for me as a first time GMH leader.  I will never forget when a noble ordered my PC to give them an elaborate showing the next IG day (ie. in a RL hour) complete with refreshments and wouldn't take no for an answer. 

It's okay for nobles and templars to be rude and demanding and believe they are the only customer the merchant has.    It's not okay for their players to be that way.   

It doesn't help that nobles/templars who feel slighted will then make it their only mission in life to aggro on your overburdened GMH leader.

Source: 10ish GMH leadership roles.

[Gentleboy]

I play off-peak, on peak and I played at a time when only two noble houses were open. I also have been making more of an effort in recent times to try and commission things as a commoner. Salarr always did me good. The players are wonderful.

I don't need much from Kurac usually.

I am not like in desperate need for items. I'm not hunting people down actively. I try to respect crafter roles especially playing them myself.

The issue of absences is not just with GMHs. But a lot with Allanak I think. And it's so empty, it's apparent when people haven't been about for awhile.

[Aruven]

As far as GMH playtimes are concerned, I usually see burnout.

Nobody wants to play a role that has nothing to do but fill orders--and there was a time when GMH was far more than that. Now only Kurac is slightly more than that. All the GMH used to have specialized branches and cool roles you could fit into, and this is covered in another thread, but over the years it was all stripped away for the most part. Staff will admonish you for hiring anything beyond a crafter.

People talked about Tuluk. Back in the day, a Templar/Noble had incentive to not obliterate the GMH on the spot for petty shit, because that GMH would just start nuking their prices and go take their business to Tuluk. (The opposite is also true)

TLDR: Nobody wants to craft all day every time they log in.
          Removing Tuluk diminished the GMH role and their power significantly, at least for playability.

[Barsook]

I didn't know that is that the case. Do the Staff shooting down the idea?

[Fredd]

 This post removed because it got jumbled to all hell.

[Shabago]

I won't give out player information they may or may not wish shared. I will say each GMH leader (or any leader) is expected to meet a minimum of 10+ hours a week to hold the role. - All of them do so and then some, baring the odd RL blip that we all suffer.

FYI, Sandmaster is not a role that is supported. It was removed, as it was the equivalent of a backdoor hunting branch.

As to the rest, context would be required?

Random things done of late for the GMH folk/assist the role:

1) No more bulk ordering unless there is one very serious reason to do so. IE: No, you're not ordering "Everything House X has to view in a showing."
2) Partially (I have more work to do here) put out master lists to Salarr and Kadius to avoid the ceaseless headache of back and forth "What do you want", "Something orange?" order debacles.
3) Streamlined NPCs for order loading (This one is credit to Emme) so everything has it's own place/ease of find.
4) Minimum charges for certain things to even be done IC. => This may morph into a blanket House Rule that anyone wanting a showing, pays for that time and personal attention, if the abuse of these PCs continues. TBD.
5) Something you all will learn about IC, soon.

[Fredd]

As far as GMH playtimes are concerned, I usually see burnout.

Nobody wants to play a role that has nothing to do but fill orders--and there was a time when GMH was far more than that. Now only Kurac is slightly more than that. All the GMH used to have specialized branches and cool roles you could fit into, and this is covered in another thread, but over the years it was all stripped away for the most part. Staff will admonish you for hiring anything beyond a crafter.

People talked about Tuluk. Back in the day, a Templar/Noble had incentive to not obliterate the GMH on the spot for petty shit, because that GMH would just start nuking their prices and go take their business to Tuluk. (The opposite is also true)

TLDR: Nobody wants to craft all day every time they log in.
          Removing Tuluk diminished the GMH role and their power significantly, at least for playability.

I have had a LOT of fun playing the two Kadians I have. And while yes, they filled TONS of orders. They also threw parties, had people assassinated, one had a rinthi breed whore lover when he was the Tuluk Kadian member. That was funny logistics. I've started an inner house war (this probably can't happened now that there is no Northern/ Southern branch to make a rivalry out of) Let's see. I've been ate and spat out by my argosy mek as a kadian, started a 'goldrush' for a specific rock, as a Kadian, I tried to start a secret society as a kadian but died....

There's a lot more you can do then fill orders...
Also, I suddenly want to play a Kadian again.

[triste]

As far as GMH playtimes are concerned, I usually see burnout.

Nobody wants to play a role that has nothing to do but fill orders--and there was a time when GMH was far more than that. Now only Kurac is slightly more than that. All the GMH used to have specialized branches and cool roles you could fit into, and this is covered in another thread, but over the years it was all stripped away for the most part. Staff will admonish you for hiring anything beyond a crafter.

People talked about Tuluk. Back in the day, a Templar/Noble had incentive to not obliterate the GMH on the spot for petty shit, because that GMH would just start nuking their prices and go take their business to Tuluk. (The opposite is also true)

TLDR: Nobody wants to craft all day every time they log in.
          Removing Tuluk diminished the GMH role and their power significantly, at least for playability.

I have had a LOT of fun playing the two Kadians I have. And while yes, they filled TONS of orders. They also there parties, had people assassinated, one had a rinthi breed whore lover when he was the Tuluk Kadian member. That was funny logistics. I've started an inner house war (this probably can't happened now that there is no Northern/ Southern branch to make a rivalry out of) Let's see. I've been ate and spat out by my argosy mek as a kadian, started a 'goldrush' for a specific rock, as a Kadian, I tried to start a secret society as a kadian but died....

There's a lot more you can do then fill orders...
Also, I suddenly want to play a Kadian again.

Frackin' love this post.

I've been staring at this thread, reading people who are lavished with multiple roles say, "GMH roles suck, this is why no one wants to play them! I know, staff me let me play these roles all the time and I hate it!!!" and I am just staring at my pile of rejected GMH role applications like some sad meme.

Cheers to you Fredd; every great GMH leader / any great leader get my kudos.

[Barsook]

FYI, Sandmaster is not a role that is supported. It was removed, as it was the equivalent of a backdoor hunting branch.

Why are there Sandmasters still around? Were they rebranded to more like mercs? Because it seems to be that way when I played my last Kuraci.

5) Something you all will learn about IC, soon.

Sweet! It better be plot hooks, because I want to be caught by those hooks.

[Aruven]

As far as GMH playtimes are concerned, I usually see burnout.

Nobody wants to play a role that has nothing to do but fill orders--and there was a time when GMH was far more than that. Now only Kurac is slightly more than that. All the GMH used to have specialized branches and cool roles you could fit into, and this is covered in another thread, but over the years it was all stripped away for the most part. Staff will admonish you for hiring anything beyond a crafter.

People talked about Tuluk. Back in the day, a Templar/Noble had incentive to not obliterate the GMH on the spot for petty shit, because that GMH would just start nuking their prices and go take their business to Tuluk. (The opposite is also true)

TLDR: Nobody wants to craft all day every time they log in.
          Removing Tuluk diminished the GMH role and their power significantly, at least for playability.

I have had a LOT of fun playing the two Kadians I have. And while yes, they filled TONS of orders. They also threw parties, had people assassinated, one had a rinthi breed whore lover when he was the Tuluk Kadian member. That was funny logistics. I've started an inner house war (this probably can't happened now that there is no Northern/ Southern branch to make a rivalry out of) Let's see. I've been ate and spat out by my argosy mek as a kadian, started a 'goldrush' for a specific rock, as a Kadian, I tried to start a secret society as a kadian but died....

There's a lot more you can do then fill orders...
Also, I suddenly want to play a Kadian again.

That's great for you, brother. Throwing some parties. You don't have to be a sponsored role to offer coins to kill someone. This is like low level bait to me honestly.

I encourage you and Triste to app Salarri or Kadians, and try them out, You should ask staff prior how many people have stored their roles in either house over the last 2-3 years first though. Trust me. My Salarri Kilaski was the funnest role i've ever played in the game. I thought a year or two ago it'd be great to jump back in. Its a fucking disaster, to put it lightly. Never been more frustrated or disappointed with a part of the game since tuluk closed.

[Aruven]

I'm not trying to be negative to be negative.

The stuff Shabago posted is great. It makes streamlining orders pretty easy, and it might get rid of Templars stepping on your dick with less than 24 hours played.

The real crux is the stringent railroading of the clan arcs. The removal of all the exterior parts of each house that made it fun and appealing to play there. Kadius and Salarr almost dont have a playable place in the gameworld anymore, which is kinda where I suspect the staff would like to see those two end up sooner than later. Just my opinion.

[Fredd]

As far as GMH playtimes are concerned, I usually see burnout.

Nobody wants to play a role that has nothing to do but fill orders--and there was a time when GMH was far more than that. Now only Kurac is slightly more than that. All the GMH used to have specialized branches and cool roles you could fit into, and this is covered in another thread, but over the years it was all stripped away for the most part. Staff will admonish you for hiring anything beyond a crafter.

People talked about Tuluk. Back in the day, a Templar/Noble had incentive to not obliterate the GMH on the spot for petty shit, because that GMH would just start nuking their prices and go take their business to Tuluk. (The opposite is also true)

TLDR: Nobody wants to craft all day every time they log in.
          Removing Tuluk diminished the GMH role and their power significantly, at least for playability.

I have had a LOT of fun playing the two Kadians I have. And while yes, they filled TONS of orders. They also threw parties, had people assassinated, one had a rinthi breed whore lover when he was the Tuluk Kadian member. That was funny logistics. I've started an inner house war (this probably can't happened now that there is no Northern/ Southern branch to make a rivalry out of) Let's see. I've been ate and spat out by my argosy mek as a kadian, started a 'goldrush' for a specific rock, as a Kadian, I tried to start a secret society as a kadian but died....

There's a lot more you can do then fill orders...
Also, I suddenly want to play a Kadian again.

That's great for you, brother. Throwing some parties. You don't have to be a sponsored role to offer coins to kill someone. This is like low level bait to me honestly.

I encourage you and Triste to app Salarri or Kadians, and try them out, You should ask staff prior how many people have stored their roles in either house over the last 2-3 years first though. Trust me. My Salarri Kilaski was the funnest role i've ever played in the game. I thought a year or two ago it'd be great to jump back in. Its a fucking disaster, to put it lightly. Never been more frustrated or disappointed with a part of the game since tuluk closed.

I will likely app a Kadian again after my current dies.

[Barsook]

I will beat you to it.

[Is Friday]

APPLY FOR LEADER ROLES:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,56082.0.html

[HeeBeeGB]

I enjoyed my last GMH leader. Things I observed:

*In under a day, I was approached by almost every Noble and Templar about overdue orders from the previous family member.

*IC unreasonableness was acceptable, and my PC rolled with the punches, politicking and otherwise ameliorating hurt feelings.

*Eventually, IC unreasonableness turned into OOC unreasonableness. No Master Crafters were available to make 'X Item', and after an item was made that the PC found unacceptable (literally what they ordered), they turned to leveling threats against my PC and all other PC underlings.

*All of this being said, I had a great time. I regularly made trips to Luirs and back, tried to facilitate plots between the Houses, sat at council, got into some deep heavy PLOTS, and engaged in MCB. Spent time writing some journals, wrote some letters, made some designs on paper. Ordered posh clothing, but just what Kadius had in stock, not what I needed to invent out of thin air.

In general, I think that Nobles and Templars need to ease up on the 'Get Cool Custom X' and the fallout around not getting them in a timely manner plot lines.

Some things to note about custom crafts:

*It's often not up to a GMH Leadership PC where/when/whether or not a master craft can be made. If they cannot master craft in that field, and do not have any master crafters in that field, they usually cannot make it appear out of thin air. Yes, there is an entire GMH behind them, but I've found Staff aren't interested in writing up fancy custom items simply because a PC wants it to materialize, particularly if that PC doesn't have the skill to make it themselves.

*Master Crafts are constrained by OOC systems, not IC systems. They can only be put in once every 30 days. If the item isn't to that PC's liking, they have to use another master craft slot (I've found) to adjust it and make changes.

*The Custom Craft system is rather backwards. Client A, who knows nothing about how clothing/weapons/whatever is made, comes up with some well researched fanciful design out of thin air, and expects GMH Master Crafter B to not only agree with their design, but make it exactly as they think it up. If the item is not to their standards or their liking, they blame the crafter rather than themselves. I liken it to eating at a 'Make your own Burger' joint. If you order 1/3 patty of raw meat, add a hardboiled egg to it, blue cheese dressing, and a pineapple, is it the line chef's fault for it being disgusting, or yours?

Realistically, Client A should approach GMH Master Crafter B about a concept. Something like this. Maybe with this flair. Oh, and a ruby somewhere, maybe the pommel/the neckline of the shirt. And trust that this House that has been outfitting soldiers, Nobles, Templars, and everything in between for over 300 years, might know what they are doing and will come up with something suitable. Typically master crafters become known for their style/panache, make a name for themselves, and people want the 'thing that they make'. I can't imagine going into a custom furniture crafter who charges say $10,000 for a table, and tell them how to make it.

*Though custom crafts are cool, plots are way cooler. Custom craft some plots, instead of custom craft bling. There are plenty of items in the game that are both unique and well written. There's no need to muddy the water with more 'Super Special Templar Sword #102', particularly if that sword isn't being used for anything but show.

[triste]

I just want to say the insight from everyone here is great and appreciated. It does paint a helpful picture about how one can get leadership roles and thrive in them.

As alluded to in this thread, one of the most desired things in leaders is playtimes: multiple players and staffers have stated this.

I often whine about applying for and not getting GMH roles, but I also own up that it is fair that I don't get these roles given the above criteria: I can only play, at max, six hours a week. Asking me to play a minimum of 10 hours is a lot.

_{I just want to say, as a side note, that I really appreciate that those "Other Roles" alluded to in the title of IsFriday's spinoff thread exist, and I appreciate his stats. Those roles, like Gladiators and villain types, happen to be more spicy and more my style anyway. Please continue to offer roles like these for filthy casuals like me! At least so long as casuals aren't allowed to play leader or GMH roles.}

[Brokkr]

For a noble/Templar custom item, 2-3 years is entirely reasonable, given technology levels.  Expecting something this week, or even this month, is unreasonable.

If you pass a very detailed design to someone else to MC, it better be done IC'ly.  It isn't your MC to make, even if you are ordering the item.  We have had to address issues with folks passing along exact descriptions by OOC means, in terms of exactly what they want.  This is not acceptable behaviour.

The more fancy or fanciful the item MC'd, the longer we are going to take to approve it, most likely.  This will probably disproportionately affect Noble/Templar orders, so players of those roles should expect it.  1-2 RL months for such a MC is not uncommon.

[Gentleboy]

I don't even want custom items. I just want something that is sitting around in the warehouse half the time.

But I dunno, getting a hold of a trainee/merchant is damn hard these days. And it's a vicious cycle.

Merchant isn't on? Log off. Noble isn't on? Log off.

It doesn't leave much room for commoners with money to do their thing. There's such a focus on the connection of noble of GMH, which I understand cause more coin. But how many of us have PCs just sitting on thousands of coin?

The economy is a fickle bitch. People wear the same armor for years, have the same clothes for years. Just wear armor 24/7.. it's odd. There's no demand from a majority of the playerbase (I could be wrong). Merchants feel like a role that caters to nobles or recruits. They barsit and way nobles a ton, yeah, but I feel like the GMHs don't expect non-nobles to need/want anything. And maybe that's a little bit of our own faults too.

I wrote this on 1 hour of sleep, sorry if jambled.

[Decameron]

The economy is a fickle bitch. People wear the same armor for years, have the same clothes for years. Just wear armor 24/7.. it's odd. There's no demand from a majority of the playerbase (I could be wrong). Merchants feel like a role that caters to nobles or recruits. They barsit and way nobles a ton, yeah, but I feel like the GMHs don't expect non-nobles to need/want anything. And maybe that's a little bit of our own faults too.

My experience had been quite different when I played one. Typically, I wouldn't sit around spending all my time waying Nobles. I would, however, get an enormous amount of ways from commoner clients wanting 'a [item].' A 'good [item]'. Or "a big [item]". Which tends to lead to having the same conversation multiple times a day. The amount of volume can certainly be crippling.

I wouldn't be worried about giving leaders in GMH more to do unless they are seeking it. I feel like most players aren't enjoying the role or storing on it 'because they are bored and don't have anything to do', it's because it's a thankless job that often leaves very little room to provide your own character any sense of growth unless you're willing to dedicate a good portion of your OOC day to handling duties first, and then having a character.

[Fredd]

The economy is a fickle bitch. People wear the same armor for years, have the same clothes for years. Just wear armor 24/7.. it's odd. There's no demand from a majority of the playerbase (I could be wrong). Merchants feel like a role that caters to nobles or recruits. They barsit and way nobles a ton, yeah, but I feel like the GMHs don't expect non-nobles to need/want anything. And maybe that's a little bit of our own faults too.

My experience had been quite different when I played one. Typically, I wouldn't sit around spending all my time waying Nobles. I would, however, get an enormous amount of ways from commoner clients wanting 'a [item].' A 'good [item]'. Or "a big [item]". Which tends to lead to having the same conversation multiple times a day. The amount of volume can certainly be crippling.

I wouldn't be worried about giving leaders in GMH more to do unless they are seeking it. I feel like most players aren't enjoying the role or storing on it 'because they are bored and don't have anything to do', it's because it's a thankless job that often leaves very little room to provide your own character any sense of growth unless you're willing to dedicate a good portion of your OOC day to handling duties first, and then having a character.

I think this is why I was able to enjoy my Kadians. As a disabled veteran, I can play all day, if I choose to. So it kept me busy when I would otherwise be bored.

[Dar]

Noble isn't on? Yay!

Templar isn't on? Yay!

Barrier and scheme to hire crimson wind to ambush the wagon of another GMH.