Longneck?

[number13]

A touch confused --

Necker is clearly banned. What about the words "longneck" and "longnecker"?

[triste]

A touch confused --

Necker is clearly banned. What about the words "longneck" and "longnecker"?

Only words banned are these: https://armageddon.org/help/view/Inappropriate%20vernacular

longneck and longnecker are not listed, so they aren't banned, period.

not going to get like the FCC and include "derivatives of," but if you intentionally try to make a very clear derivative of a banned word, and use it in the same way that caused the word to be banned, you're probably being a jerk.

[Doublepalli]

Longnecker is questionable, given the necker part. Even saying it out loud sounds like a severe country term for the N word.

So I see where staff just draws the line to make things easier.

But elves do need derogatory terms. Its part of the game.

Sharp ears. Sharps. Knife ears. Stick-legs. Twigs. Lets keep it going guys watcha got

[Inks]

Pick dicks.

[triste]

Pick dicks.

The less it resembles real life the better.

Let me just say something here. Dungeons and Dragons got criticized because it had "inherently evil" races like "dark elves." Armageddon doesn't have inherently evil races because it's not a naively racist game like other games. The closest thing to an evil race in Armageddon are Gith, but they are from another dimension, and who knows what they are saying in their dimension-crossing language. Maybe they're trying to liberate Zalanthas! Jokes aside, even gith are morally gray in this game as they have been Templar slaying liberators at various points.

My point here is -- there is no good and evil in Zalanthas, therefore there are not "good" or "evil" races, therefore there is no relative worth ascribed to races, therefore there is no racist judgement made in this game by game designers, therefore, despite false and naive descriptions of this game as racist, this game is not racist. These people are gravely mis-reading what is in fact an anti-racist game that paints racism as a problem and celebrates diversity with conflict and nuance.

And as a player of color, and a trans person, let me say to any other players from persecuted populations* that if content here crosses the clear line Staff has tried to draw to protect players, feel free to submit a request and it will change. This has happened a few times, Staff are happy to make reasonable adjustments if people are feeling real pain from any of this.

Personally it takes a lot for fiction to cause me pain, because I've been an actual victim of hate crimes IRL and I know what happens in a game nowhere nears the trauma of that experience. In fact this game heals me and helps me process trauma. That said, I understand where other people are coming from so feel free to speak up to staff in a request if something hurts you.

But yeah, out of all of these if I had to endorse one it's "Twigs."

* What do I mean by a persecuted population or protected minority? Good question! Lately, a lot of people have been trying to apply American legal concepts to Armageddon MUD, but Armageddon tries to address these things with a global mindset as well. So just imagine the most generous, comprehensive, long and loving list of protected minorities you can imagine <3

[NinjaFruitSalad]

I think the thing about D&D is the fact that some races had "always evil" in their entries, but that actually wasn't true, if you thought about it. There still always could be exceptions. Not talking about devils or demons, I mean things like Drow, Orcs, Goblins.. Regardless, it still gave rise to the notion that it's okay to just kill them for no reason.

In Armageddon, this is different because Byn and Militia members like to frequently harass and abuse elves for no reason other than the fact that they stole the same air they breathe. Many people enjoy watching an elf get bloodied, maimed, or killed, regardless of the reason, and in the narrows, elves minding their own business are slaughtered wholesale.

Oh, wait.....

Still, I don't think there's many similarities to real life that would justify a change to the game.

[triste]

Fiction does not equal reality. If you think the two are directly related, go to a shrink. If you think the two are directly related, you're opposed to hundreds, if not thousands of authors of color, and are accusing these people of color of being racist when they are not.

Fiction does not equal reality.
Fiction helps heal our reality.

If troubling scenes in a game help people realize why troubling scenes like that are never acceptable IRL, great. They've been healed by literature about race, just like entire countries have been healed when they read the books people of color have written about race.

So keep writing about race. It's a good thing.

If you can't process literature in a healthy way, get help for your emotional pain.

[triste]

So keep writing about race. It's a good thing.

And maybe write about it on relevant forums instead of, randomly, this game's message board. There are much better forums than this board if you actually care about these topics and want to help fight the real problem.

Anyway, it's obvious why this thread was necro'd given recent circumstances.

Fiction and art heals our reality and under no circumstances should be censored.
While some people advocate for censoring racist material, Armageddon MUD is not a racist game, scenes like the one you describe actually help people unpack and learn not to be racist.

I am actually playing a reunion Dungeons and Dragons game with my High School wrestling team next month. It's the first DnD game we've played together in years. We are comprised of... A guy from Hong Kong, a guy from Guangzhou, an African American, a white American, two guys from Taiwan, my half-latin ass, and a Samoan.

I might ask what drew these people to play Dungeons and Dragons. Absolutely none of them are going to say "because it's racist and I like racism" -- why on earth would we all be friends with each other if this were the case? What they probably would say is "you can play whatever you want in this game and that's awesome." If you think games like this do anything other than celebrate diversity, you have a very turbid and murky world view.

[Inks]

Also gith aren't from another dimension in Armageddon. You are thinking of githyanki.

[triste]

Also gith aren't from another dimension in Armageddon. You are thinking of githyanki.

Also they aren't inherently evil, as Armageddon doesn't have the stupid, racist idea of an "inherently evil race" because this game isn't racist.

[Inks]

No they aren't evil sterotypes. Correct. Just everyone stop bringing this stuff onto my pretend bone swinging simulator.

[triste]

No they aren't evil sterotypes. Correct. Just everyone stop bringing this stuff onto my pretend bone swinging simulator.

Firm agree CC staff lock this thread.

We got what we needed out of this thread a while ago -- clear documentation stating real life racism is stupid and sucks, clear documentation that helps players avoid coming even close to real life racism [because it is stupid and sucky and has nothing to do with this game].

[NinjaFruitSalad]

All inks did was say another possible derogatory term for elves, which was actually on topic.

He's not the one that went off on a diatribe about racism.   imo thread doesn't need locking.

[triste]

All inks did was say another possible derogatory term for elves, which was actually on topic.

He's not the one that went off on a diatribe about racism.   imo thread doesn't need locking.

Cool, I was just addressing concerns people had. You yourself seemed to imply harmful racism exists in this game, which it doesn't.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

All inks did was say another possible derogatory term for elves, which was actually on topic.

He's not the one that went off on a diatribe about racism.   imo thread doesn't need locking.

Cool, I was just addressing concerns people had. You yourself seemed to imply harmful racism exists in this game, which it doesn't.

If you'd bothered carefully reading the very last sentence, maybe you would think otherwise.

[triste]

All inks did was say another possible derogatory term for elves, which was actually on topic.

He's not the one that went off on a diatribe about racism.   imo thread doesn't need locking.

Cool, I was just addressing concerns people had. You yourself seemed to imply harmful racism exists in this game, which it doesn't.

If you'd bothered carefully reading the very last sentence, maybe you would think otherwise.

Nope, thinking exactly as I do because I know the difference between fact and fiction and I am not afraid of fiction that holds up a mirror to life because it shows the ugly things in life we need to fix.

Armageddon is a great game with nuance that holds a mirror to the ugly things in life so that we can see these horrors for what they are.

Assuming there is such a reductive concept as good and evil, and racism is evil, if you remain ignorant to evils, you let evil thrive. Censoring topics and redacting and revising content to appease people who want to censor that content is giving in to lightless* ignorance. I hate ignorance and you should too.

* Disclaimer for my friends who read racism into literally every benign and harmless thing -- I said lightless here because you literally need light to read text on a page or a screen. And reading is a great hobby I recommend it.

[Doublepalli]

I still don't see the issue.

I just play an elf and tear the upclass stuck up humans apart whenever I want to "make a difference" in the normal Armageddon rascist caste. Be it elf or dwarf, I force them to acknowledge my character, be it renown/deeds or a blade to your throat.

[triste]

I still don't see the issue.

I just play an elf and tear the upclass stuck up humans apart whenever I want to "make a difference" in the normal Armageddon rascist caste. Be it elf or dwarf, I force them to acknowledge my character, be it renown/deeds or a blade to your throat.

Yeah it isn't an issue. What you describe here is actually awesome for people of color to experience [speaking for myself] because it is relatable. It is awesome for ANYONE to experience in game, if they want to, and it even teaches empathy.

More people of color play Armageddon than other comparable games [guaranteed fact]. Outside of fact, my conjecture as to why this is because Armageddon isn't a stupid and reductively racist game. It handles this topic fairly and well, and as a result our player base is more diverse than others.

[Heade]

I personally don't think that in an adult-themed RPI you should make any effort to prevent people from being offended. People can be offended by anything. That isn't a rabbit hole that should even be approached. We should just let people RP and use whatever words they want, or explore whatever themes they want.

I believe in consent IRL. In an adult-themed RPI, I don't even think consent should be an OOC thing that is sought. But I'll choose my battles. I'm willing to deal with consent rules. I don't think we should limit vocabulary to try to dance around the ever changing triggers of the general population at large.

I'm offended that people take offense to fictional parallels to real racism. Does that matter? Do I have to be a particular race IRL for my offense to count?

Do people get offended at books that are written that have characters that are blatantly and obviously racist? No. They're fictional characters and their inherent racism very likely adds to a compelling story. That is the same situation here. Let's get over ourselves and enjoy this bit of collective live-action literature that we're collaboratively creating for what it is: Fiction.

All racism will have a parallel to real life racism because it's the same word, meaning the same thing. Every instance of "blue" will have a real life parallel to "blue". We can't alter that without altering the meaning of words. Armageddon includes fantastic racism. I don't think that is something that the majority of people want to go away, so we should stop beating this dead horse and just tell people that instead of trying to feign some sort of sensitivity. If it offends you, you're welcome to not participate in it. That should be the mantra of such an adult-themed game world that is meant to include terrible, harsh things like slavery, racism, corruption, and murder.

[triste]

Two years ago I would have whole heartedly agreed with you Heade.

I have been subject to horrible things IRL, including slurs and r--- er, I mean, other redacted content.

A while back I was diagnosed with repetition compulsion due to a lot of that trauma happening in early childhood. Fiction is actually recommended as a treatment for people like me. Censoring fiction can literally endanger my sick, sad, PTSD stricken life. Games like Armageddon keep me from drinking like Jessica Jones and getting in trouble.

But... for better or worse, now I can't fully agree with you. I understand some people with trauma deal with it in the opposite way as me. I don't know. Part of me wishes I could just tell people more sensitive than me to find another game, but I also like these people too.

It's all about empathy. I hope people will be more empathetic to people like you and me in time Heade too.

[triste]

I mean, I don't know what to fucking say. Adults can co-exist. If I had my way there would be no strictly censored topics, but if people get uncomfortable with a given scene you can request a FTB, like skipping pages in a book.

Fucking with narrative and free will is intellectually constraining. I get the plight of vulnerable minorities because I fucking am one, but don't restrict creativity or speech. Whew.

I have had to cut myself off from this game because everyone has a different opinion. [Edit to clarify: namely I am concerned by how polarized these opinions have become such that people seem to either be on team 1 (destroy all fantasy narratives that might, even mildly, impact real life negatively) or team 2 (allow all narratives because they are safely contained in the imaginative realm). There seems to be no team 3 in between and I have been disparaged as a "woke centrist" for trying to find compromise here]  At the end of the day for the sake of our small ass game I hope we find a solution where everyone can be happy.

[triste]

Literally just so fucking done with this topic.

Side A: if you write the word "eyelid" in your documentation I am going to scream racism and compare your gaming community to the KKK
Side B: I should be allowed to eat babies and come up with homonyms for hate speech in this game.

Me, a person of color and member of the ACLU who believes in both free speech and egalitarianism:

[Hauwke]

9 of the last 14 posts on the thread are by you. Relax dude.

[triste]

I have a right to speak about this. White people silencing people of color on the matter of race is disgusting.

That said, I've asked for this thread to be closed because it's now, thanks to the action staff took to remediate the immediate issue, pointless and highly triggering to people who actually experience racism.

[triste]

If staff can speak to the point of keeping this thread open that would be great.

It started with OP's complaint. It's now all clear through documentation. More than half of the posts here are off topic.