New Player will not be Returning

[ShaLeah]

It isn't a "pk-heavy" permadeath mud. That would imply that your character is guaranteed to have a short life because people are running around treating each others characters like NPC mobs. That just flat out isn't true.

MOST roleplay in Armageddon does NOT involve intentionally killing other characters. Most of it is crafters, aides, political folks, low-ranking grunts of clans, independent traders, would-be master thieves - people who would rather do something other than spend their time killing people.

There are a cluster of character (not players - this isn't about players) who are roleplayed as merciless violent people. They are not the majority, they're not even a large minority. It's a small cluster.

Two people killing 10 PCs out of over 150 uniquely-identified login accounts in a RL month's time is not "PK-heavy." If it were 10 people killing those same 10 PCs in a real month's time, THAT would be PK heavy, because that would be 10 different people out of 150 interested in killing PCs, as opposed to 2 people out of 150 killing PCs.

PK is part of the game. It is not required, and it is not usually immediate. Some players who have played their FIRST character in the game, managed to live a decent amount of real-time before they were killed off.  My first character on my old account was around for something like 4 months before she was finally killed by her mob boss. My first character on my other account lived a few months before I finally stored her. No PK at all for her.

The documentation that already exists is clear: this game has a learning curve, it includes PK, it is permadeath, and it is roleplay. The docs also recommend that you read the docs, and there's a walk-through, a "what to know about" section, a "so you're new..." (which you and I both wrote together, if you recall).

There are resources galore for new players. The problem is, we can't force new players to read them. That is exactly the problem, as I see it.

I don't associate "pk heavy" with anything close to a  guaranteed short life and I certainly don't add the connotation that it's because people are running around treating each others characters like they're NPC mobs.


I'd be interested in what the ratio is between PK deaths, mob deaths, and code deaths like falls and starvation just to see if PK is the most prevalent way to die when NOT an RPT.

I still chuck things like this up to natural selection.

[Shabago]

It isn't a "pk-heavy" permadeath mud. That would imply that your character is guaranteed to have a short life because people are running around treating each others characters like NPC mobs. That just flat out isn't true.

MOST roleplay in Armageddon does NOT involve intentionally killing other characters. Most of it is crafters, aides, political folks, low-ranking grunts of clans, independent traders, would-be master thieves - people who would rather do something other than spend their time killing people.

There are a cluster of character (not players - this isn't about players) who are roleplayed as merciless violent people. They are not the majority, they're not even a large minority. It's a small cluster.

Two people killing 10 PCs out of over 150 uniquely-identified login accounts in a RL month's time is not "PK-heavy." If it were 10 people killing those same 10 PCs in a real month's time, THAT would be PK heavy, because that would be 10 different people out of 150 interested in killing PCs, as opposed to 2 people out of 150 killing PCs.

PK is part of the game. It is not required, and it is not usually immediate. Some players who have played their FIRST character in the game, managed to live a decent amount of real-time before they were killed off.  My first character on my old account was around for something like 4 months before she was finally killed by her mob boss. My first character on my other account lived a few months before I finally stored her. No PK at all for her.

The documentation that already exists is clear: this game has a learning curve, it includes PK, it is permadeath, and it is roleplay. The docs also recommend that you read the docs, and there's a walk-through, a "what to know about" section, a "so you're new..." (which you and I both wrote together, if you recall).

There are resources galore for new players. The problem is, we can't force new players to read them. That is exactly the problem, as I see it.

I don't associate "pk heavy" with anything close to a  guaranteed short life and I certainly don't add the connotation that it's because people are running around treating each others characters like they're NPC mobs.


I'd be interested in what the ratio is between PK deaths, mob deaths, and code deaths like falls and starvation just to see if PK is the most prevalent way to die when NOT an RPT.

I still chuck things like this up to natural selection.

Using the filters of "created" in 2019, alive or dead, mortal PCs = 1617 entries over the 12 months.
Using the filter of "PK report" in 2019 = 87.

Percent of PK versus Mob death, suicide, storage, or any other fashion = 0.5 percent.

[Is Friday]

Shabago:
What is the data for the trend over the years?

How many PKs go unreported? I assume you have a way of tracking them besides PK reports, or at least notice "hey this many a month usually go unreported".

If it's really that low and has always been that low... wow. I am a large chunk of that on my own. I get PK'd all the time.

[Lizzie]

It isn't a "pk-heavy" permadeath mud. That would imply that your character is guaranteed to have a short life because people are running around treating each others characters like NPC mobs. That just flat out isn't true. [snip]

I don't associate "pk heavy" with anything close to a  guaranteed short life and I certainly don't add the connotation that it's because people are running around treating each others characters like they're NPC mobs.

But most of the mudding world does associate "PK heavy" or "a PK game" with a guaranteed short life, and they associate it with characters running around treating each other like NPC mobs. Granted most PK games or PK-heavy games also have resurrections or some element of non-permanence to death. The notion of PK-heavy combined with permanent death would be a turn-off to anyone in the gaming world who knows what the rest of the gaming world means when they refer to PK heavy or PK game. Especially when they see that not only is this pk-heavy and permanent, but you have to submit a character application for every single character. And Armageddon is not one of those other games that ARE considered (by the gaming world at large) pk-heavy or pk games, and truly I don't feel this is the right impression we should be making on potential new players.

[Lizzie]

Shabago:
What is the data for the trend over the years?

How many PKs go unreported? I assume you have a way of tracking them besides PK reports, or at least notice "hey this many a month usually go unreported".

If it's really that low and has always been that low... wow. I am a large chunk of that on my own. I get PK'd all the time.

Even if you were to double it to account for unreported PKs, that's still only 1% total.

Maybe there's some way to filter out deaths via the code. Like...

IF all player-character numbers fall within the range of 12450 and 29000. You could ask the code:

How many characters have been killed by any number falling between 12450 and 29000? We know already that a record of "who" killed someone is recorded, because when you get your character notes, you can see "Lizzie was killed by [and there's usually a blank here, or an sdesc], amen."

Whatever data is recorded by the game in order to issue that line of text, should be able to be collected and sorted.

[HavokBlue]

Shabago:
What is the data for the trend over the years?

How many PKs go unreported? I assume you have a way of tracking them besides PK reports, or at least notice "hey this many a month usually go unreported".

If it's really that low and has always been that low... wow. I am a large chunk of that on my own. I get PK'd all the time.

There's not an easy way to pull the data but even if you generously assume that there are three times as many PKs as are reported you're getting percentage points, like Lizzie said.

[Heade]

If they have no way of enforcing PK reporting, since they can't pull data on PKs directly from the server, I think it's very generous to assume that only a small handful of PKs go unreported.

Since it seems like the majority of PKs are done by a minority of players, it's entirely possible that those players virtually never file PK reports. That could theoretically make the percentage of unreported PKs 99%, which would make the number of PC deaths to PK instead of Environment(meks, dehydration, falls, etc), up to 100%.

We know that's not the case, but a case could be made for anything between .5% and 99% without that crucial piece of data, so any further speculation is just guesswork.

Example:

RP guy 1 never PKs anyone. = 0 PK reports.
RP gal 1 PKs 2 people          = 2 PK reports.
RP guy2    PKs 2 people       = 2 PK reports.
RP gal 1 PKs 1 person          = 1 PK report.
PK guy 1 PKs 37 people       = 0 PK reports.

If only these 5 people PKed at all, but the one who PKs the most never submits reports unless prompted by staff(and even maybe not then), then despite 80% of the people who PK submitting reports, 88% of PKs would still go unreported.

The idea that this may be happening isn't pure conjecture. In other threads regarding PK, certain players who PK a LOT have said that they feel like PK reports are too burdensome to worry about having to file. I would assume this is because they PK so often that it'd feel like they were constantly doing paperwork.

[X-D]

Not much paperwork.

Killed this dude for this reason.

KTHXBYE

Every now and again staff will ask for more info...but that is rare.

[Armaddict]

The idea that this may be happening isn't pure conjecture. In other threads regarding PK, certain players who PK a LOT have said that they feel like PK reports are too burdensome to worry about having to file. I would assume this is because they PK so often that it'd feel like they were constantly doing paperwork.

I think you may drastically overestimate how often those people PK.

[ShaLeah]

It isn't a "pk-heavy" permadeath mud. That would imply that your character is guaranteed to have a short life because people are running around treating each others characters like NPC mobs. That just flat out isn't true.

MOST roleplay in Armageddon does NOT involve intentionally killing other characters. Most of it is crafters, aides, political folks, low-ranking grunts of clans, independent traders, would-be master thieves - people who would rather do something other than spend their time killing people.

There are a cluster of character (not players - this isn't about players) who are roleplayed as merciless violent people. They are not the majority, they're not even a large minority. It's a small cluster.

Two people killing 10 PCs out of over 150 uniquely-identified login accounts in a RL month's time is not "PK-heavy." If it were 10 people killing those same 10 PCs in a real month's time, THAT would be PK heavy, because that would be 10 different people out of 150 interested in killing PCs, as opposed to 2 people out of 150 killing PCs.

PK is part of the game. It is not required, and it is not usually immediate. Some players who have played their FIRST character in the game, managed to live a decent amount of real-time before they were killed off.  My first character on my old account was around for something like 4 months before she was finally killed by her mob boss. My first character on my other account lived a few months before I finally stored her. No PK at all for her.

The documentation that already exists is clear: this game has a learning curve, it includes PK, it is permadeath, and it is roleplay. The docs also recommend that you read the docs, and there's a walk-through, a "what to know about" section, a "so you're new..." (which you and I both wrote together, if you recall).

There are resources galore for new players. The problem is, we can't force new players to read them. That is exactly the problem, as I see it.

I don't associate "pk heavy" with anything close to a  guaranteed short life and I certainly don't add the connotation that it's because people are running around treating each others characters like they're NPC mobs.


I'd be interested in what the ratio is between PK deaths, mob deaths, and code deaths like falls and starvation just to see if PK is the most prevalent way to die when NOT an RPT.

I still chuck things like this up to natural selection.

Using the filters of "created" in 2019, alive or dead, mortal PCs = 1617 entries over the 12 months.
Using the filter of "PK report" in 2019 = 87.

Percent of PK versus Mob death, suicide, storage, or any other fashion = 0.5 percent.

Is that all? Why not use killed by man/woman/immortal fury?

The way some voice concerns about pk I expected way more.

Definitely not PK heavy. New genre of MUD - RPIPKI
PK inevitable

[Lizzie]

Shaleah if by "some" voicing concerns about PK you mean me, then the response to that is no. I don't voice concerns about PK. I voice concerns about HOW the PKs occurred, and even then only once in awhile. I've had a pretty significant chunk of my characters killed by other characters. In MOST cases, I'm glad they were killed in a scene rather than by a random critter-mob or due to storage. I've said that time and again, my opinion hasn't changed.

For me, in my mind when I'm playing the game, the theme of the game is "How will you measure the quality of your next character's death?" and not "Murder Corruption Betrayal."

[Vex]

Really, the state of pvp is fine, other than, there isn't nearly as much as there should be compared to the volume of "friends with everyone, despite race/culture" pcs who live, for bloody ever. I'll concede, yes, some pk are rather spiritless, but life is full of many inconsequential disappointments. C'est la vie.

As stat inequities have been raised by op, perhaps, then, its time to look at a less "Vegas style" system. A point allocation system would, overall, eliminate stats as a complaint, if every pc race has an equal pre-set baseline, and say, 10 points, to place, as they see fit.

A human starts with: 10 str, 10 agi, 10 wis, 10 end.

A half-elf starts with 9 str, 11 agi, 10 wis, 10 end.

A city elf starts with 7 str, 12 agi, 12 wis, 9 end.

A dwarf starts with 11 str, 9 agi, 9 wis, 11 end.

+10 points to spend, to best customize that pc, to suit the needs of the players ambitions for the pc.

With proper stat caps per race, that REVOKE being able to raise a stat beyond exceptional, we eliminate the 'super hero' pc who happens to get 130 hp, exceptional stats across the board, as well as eliminate 'my pc is utter garbage, with no hope of success at its ambition or coded relevance'. We would also, as such, make ourselves more appealing to cross game players, who have become accustomed to a higher standard of customization, found elsewhere.

As I do not know the exact system of points in use, so this is a generalization, rather than a hard suggestion, of course, and not to be taking as literally suggested numbers. I just imagine a system were 'good' is actually GOOD, and 'exceptional' is truly exceptional, as it would come at the cost of being relatively average at everything else. No more ultra strong, impossible fast, incredibly enduring, intelligent supermans.

No more need, for people to 'suicide' until good stats come up, either. Every pc, every time, has the same potential, with total player freedom to direct it. It is, imo, the best of situations.

I might further suggest that the BASE MINIMUM for HP, be set to 100, across all races. I'm less concerned about the peak of HP, but seeing a pc with hp in the 80's, is extremely disheartening, and even 90s rears the very real, very ugly threat, of one climb fail ending you instantly, and within "one shot" range of popular kill skills. Or two or three hits, from the resident "grind spiders erry day" (zero karma still...) dwarf.

I might also address the age vs stats inequities, as being younger is such a severe disadvantage, that a new player rolling up a teenager, is setting themselves up for a fail. Yes, there is a 'warning', but warning people away from what might be their typical preference for a character RP, does not benefit us in any conceivable way. Better, I think, to lessen the 'disadvantage vs advantage' of 'younger vs middle age', making it more of a nuance, rather than a hugely glaring divide.

Enabling a viable experience, across a broader range of concepts and and preferences, with a more level field of engagement (stats, race, etcs etcs), is to our advantage. Gaming has advanced to such a degree, that customization isn't a feature, but an standard. I recently fired up the latest mechwarrior game, and what hit me first and foremost, was that I had no option to choose gender, or even a name, nevermind an avatar. It's a rather sour start, to an otherwise fun distraction. Customization is what we expect, in everything in our current way of life. It's not something to shy away from, but pursue, as it only leads to a more agreeable first impression, and a more satisfying long term experience.

[Greve]

Eh. To gauge the prevalence of PKing, you'd have to look much more closely than just "chars created vs PKs reported." For one thing, you'd need to find out how many of those chars actually went on to be played to any appreciable extent. There's somewhere around 30-50ish new chars made every week, and it's no secret that most of those never become established enough to even be in a position to get PKed. Some are new accounts that submit an app and never return. Some roll all below average stats and end up in the silt sea after two hours. Many get eaten by animals before anyone even interacts with them. Many get stored. I'd be more interested in a statistic along the lines of PCs with 3d+ of playtime dying at the hands of another PC. Not created vs reported but actually played vs PKed. Anything else will get buried under the plurality of chars that are created but never played for real, and the many kills that go unreported.

My observation has been that when chars get PKed these days, it's often for little reason. Can't tell if PKing is more or less common now than it used to be, but I see more of it that comes from some player's apparent desire to PK and less that comes from things like rivalries, hired assassinations and actual PvP battles. When I've been on the receiving end in recent years, there has been a lot more of the kind that made me go "why the hell did someone do that?" and a lot less that made me go "ah, they finally got me." In the last five years, I've had something like a dozen instances of some stranger just riding up to me and attacking without a word or emote. In the five years before that, I think it happened once.

[X-D]

Vex.

"And when everybody is special, nobody is."

Bad enough we have that with classes being homogenized into blandness.

I for one like the chance at a godly stat PC as well as the chance for crap but mostly ending up in between. Hell, the only time I have ordered stats is when the stats really did not matter...so, like once...possibly two times.

It is too bad the OP found that lower stats was a deal breaker for the entire game...I would say that says something about them not the mud.

[Alesan]

Vex.

"And when everybody is special, nobody is."

Bad enough we have that with classes being homogenized into blandness.

I for one like the chance at a godly stat PC as well as the chance for crap but mostly ending up in between. Hell, the only time I have ordered stats is when the stats really did not matter...so, like once...possibly two times.

It is too bad the OP found that lower stats was a deal breaker for the entire game...I would say that says something about them not the mud.

What does it say about them?

[Vex]

It is too bad the OP found that lower stats was a deal breaker for the entire game...I would say that says something about them not the mud.

The new player who, deciding against their own better judgement to try us on again after a souring first impression, ends up disappointed before they're even into the game, by a random factor beyond their control, which can effectively neuter a character concept on a permanent basis in a game ruled by the law of code, must be to blame for it, yes?

Let's shine the negative light of suggested blame on them, and wash our hands of the burden that is acknowledging a potential point of failure, in our ability to raise our numbers.

[X-D]

Each thing you do to "raise numbers" Has the same chance to lower them.

Secondly, How bad were the stats? We do not know of course, If they were horrid, like all poor then one should contact staff on the matter, they have felt pity for people before. Or, if what you are looking for really is a RPI and your first reason to leave is because you did not see the RP of a PK, then you would think such a person would be less code focused and would roll with it. I'd be willing to bet that the stats on the second PC were quite serviceable and likely no worse then what you would normally get in a point buy system.

Now I am all for gaining and retaining new players, I help newbies a LOT, I generally do not target them for bad things unless really asking for it. But this person seems that they want the game to be catered to them and rather unwilling to roll with the punches. So excuse me if I have a lack of empathy. This person in my opinion did not try, things did not go his/her way two times and they quit...and the worst part is, it seems, up till the PK things had been going their way.

I have never had a PC neutered by stats BTW, I had one I was unwilling to play, yes. But normally I play them, and hell, last couple had quite sub par stats and one lasted more then 20 days played, got his share of PKs and died to my own mess up...other has even worse stats and still truckin....so...yeah.

Though, I do wish they would have stuck around anyway, maybe find a mentor or some helpers...from what I see, people who do one or both of those tend to stick.

[Jarvis]

Hey man, I dont know what happened for sure, but it makes me sad to see you go. Pretty sure you won't read this, but here are my two cents.

Don't let one negative experience in a subject deter you from doing something you enjoy. Bad and good experiences will be had. Other people will be dicks and fuck up, you'll be a dick and fuck up, its how things go. Some people learn from it, some don't. But if you truly have fun doing something, and you like the gameplay, give it another shot Whilst its easy to let one bad experience tarnish your opinion of something, its much more worth it to keep trying until it works if its something that has the great potential to bring you joy.

[Vex]

Each thing you do to "raise numbers" Has the same chance to lower them.

That's a ridiculous statement.

You made assumptions of the OPs character, you made assumptions on a staff response to a hypothetical situation and essentially spend the rest of your words boasting about your supposed merits, with a side of amateurish waxing philosophical. At no point have your responses amounted to more than, "I like it how it is."

Next time, just say so, without the Qwerty imitation.

[ShaLeah]

Shaleah if by "some" voicing concerns about PK you mean me, then the response to that is no. I don't voice concerns about PK. I voice concerns about HOW the PKs occurred, and even then only once in awhile. I've had a pretty significant chunk of my characters killed by other characters. In MOST cases, I'm glad they were killed in a scene rather than by a random critter-mob or due to storage. I've said that time and again, my opinion hasn't changed.

For me, in my mind when I'm playing the game, the theme of the game is "How will you measure the quality of your next character's death?" and not "Murder Corruption Betrayal."

Did not mean you.  Meant the countless "pk sucks/why cant you find an alternative/mcb is a tagline not the game's theme/etc/any variation thereof" threads in general.

[Armaddict]

Quote from: X-D on Today at 04:26:12 PM
Each thing you do to "raise numbers" Has the same chance to lower them.

That's a ridiculous statement.

That is not a ridiculous statement.  I just don't see what it's in response to unless someone is suggesting we need to do some sweeping exorbitant change because a new player decided they didn't want to stay here.  Aside from blatant knee-jerk reactions, of course.

But yes, a longtime discussion has been making changes to be closer to newbie friendly at the expense of losing people who already enjoyed the game.

[Heade]

The idea that this may be happening isn't pure conjecture. In other threads regarding PK, certain players who PK a LOT have said that they feel like PK reports are too burdensome to worry about having to file. I would assume this is because they PK so often that it'd feel like they were constantly doing paperwork.

I think you may drastically overestimate how often those people PK.

That's entirely possible. But without knowing for sure, they could kill 2 people a day before dinner. Maybe one for dessert.

Without some way to see total PKs on the server, and not just PK reports, it's not really worth debating. Also, I'm pretty sure if someone kills you with poison, the system doesn't recognize that as X person killing you, but rather says you died due to poison or whatever.

Having good tools to determine how PC death occurs would be a good first step towards making any sort of ground in this debate. As it stands, we know nothing, Jon Snow.

[HavokBlue]

If they have no way of enforcing PK reporting, since they can't pull data on PKs directly from the server, I think it's very generous to assume that only a small handful of PKs go unreported.

Since it seems like the majority of PKs are done by a minority of players, it's entirely possible that those players virtually never file PK reports. That could theoretically make the percentage of unreported PKs 99%, which would make the number of PC deaths to PK instead of Environment(meks, dehydration, falls, etc), up to 100%.

We know that's not the case, but a case could be made for anything between .5% and 99% without that crucial piece of data, so any further speculation is just guesswork.

Example:

RP guy 1 never PKs anyone. = 0 PK reports.
RP gal 1 PKs 2 people          = 2 PK reports.
RP guy2    PKs 2 people       = 2 PK reports.
RP gal 1 PKs 1 person          = 1 PK report.
PK guy 1 PKs 37 people       = 0 PK reports.

If only these 5 people PKed at all, but the one who PKs the most never submits reports unless prompted by staff(and even maybe not then), then despite 80% of the people who PK submitting reports, 88% of PKs would still go unreported.

The idea that this may be happening isn't pure conjecture. In other threads regarding PK, certain players who PK a LOT have said that they feel like PK reports are too burdensome to worry about having to file. I would assume this is because they PK so often that it'd feel like they were constantly doing paperwork.

There is zero chance someone is going to PK 37 people without getting a friendly visit from the Imm in the sky. PK doesn't happen nearly as often as you think it does, and even when it doesn't get reported, odds are at least one staff member was likely notified it occurred.

Also, I'm sure there's a way to pull the hard data, but like a lot of back end stuff, you're working with a code base older than many players.

The idea that this may be happening isn't pure conjecture. In other threads regarding PK, certain players who PK a LOT have said that they feel like PK reports are too burdensome to worry about having to file. I would assume this is because they PK so often that it'd feel like they were constantly doing paperwork.

I think you may drastically overestimate how often those people PK.

That's entirely possible. But without knowing for sure, they could kill 2 people a day before dinner. Maybe one for dessert.

Without some way to see total PKs on the server, and not just PK reports, it's not really worth debating. Also, I'm pretty sure if someone kills you with poison, the system doesn't recognize that as X person killing you, but rather says you died due to poison or whatever.

Having good tools to determine how PC death occurs would be a good first step towards making any sort of ground in this debate. As it stands, we know nothing, Jon Snow.

Anybody killing two PCs a day will very quickly draw scrutiny from staff.

[KittenLicks]

So, I probably don't count as a new player anymore, but I will say that my experience with the game has been on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I recall one of my first characters being let go by a raider mid-fight after surrendering (in a situation where I could easily have spamwalked off once they disengaged) and another where someone let my thief live to be an informant for them. Both times I had a vague feeling it was because they thought I was a cute newbie and wanted to give me a chance.

I don't mean to imply that the experiences of the other people posting here aren't valid, but I just felt it'd be good to weigh in on the other side of things, since people that get lucky and get some armageddon 'mercy' probably don't come to the forums to rant about it, so we don't hear about that as much.

[Heade]

Anybody killing two PCs a day will very quickly draw scrutiny from staff.

This is a very easy assumption to make when you're assuming staff is active 24 hours a day and/or has tools to easily notice this sort of stuff. But a healthy percentage of people who play this game don't even really get on the GDB. It wouldn't be such a stretch to imagine that several of these people don't submit PK reports. Further, I would guess that 10 characters die without complaint on the GDB or Request page for every 1 that results in requests/complaint threads. So, if people are PKing, 9 out of 10 times, it's probably not going to result in a complaint. And if there is no complaint, generally staff won't bother looking into it.

I'm not saying specifically how many PKs there are in the game on a daily basis. I'm pointing out that we don't really have the tools in place to know, since PK reports are really only "strongly encouraged" and not required.

Last time I heard from a staffer on the issue of PK reports, they basically said that if they noticed someone PK multiple people over a short time frame without reports, they'd ask them to send in reports. But that the only way they could really tell when someone died is to either be online at the time they die, or look specifically at the player's account.

So, wait... If they killed MULTIPLE PCs in a short time, THEN they'd be hounded about reports...IF someone noticed that they killed multiple PCs. Considering that staff can barely tell when someone dies, it seems highly unlikely that they'd be able to notice a pattern of behavior from a particular player.

Essentially, staff doesn't have an easy way to keep track of PKs in order to enforce PK reports. As a result, they can't really enforce a PK report requirement. Failure to enforce any requirement of PK reports encourages twinky PK-focused players by allowing them to do what they do without repercussions. PK becomes more common, making it even more difficult to track and recognize patterns of behavior, as well as resulting in a shift of the bell curve as to what is a "normal" amount of PK.

This discussion makes me want to poll the community to see what the most PCs killed on a single character was. I'm sure some of those PKers out there would love to brag about a number, but maybe an anonymous poll would be better...