The Rinth Needs Teeth

[Derain]

How come these threads always pop up right after IC events? I am shocked this isn't locked.

[Inks]

If you want competent control in the rinth, play competently. If you get unlucky and die despite or perhaps due to your playstyle, shrug and know that it is better than dying to NPCs.

There was a number of rinthi gang leaders with 'zero' combat skill that thrived for the longest of times.

I forgot his name now. But the creator of eastside kings elf gang had a lot of elves following him that codedly were very adept in combat. While he himself was basically completely untrained. He literally had no time to practice skills, he was too busy schmoozing.

Krak, it was Krak. He was a burglar with the worst stats I have ever played, and every element listed in his mdesc.

EDIT: Damn our gang name was so cheeky.

[number13]

How come these threads always pop up right after IC events? I am shocked this isn't locked.

There's always IC events.  I'm thinking of a string of events, going back two or three RL years.

My concerns is over how dependent the Guild's power is on individual PCs being coded killing machines, rather than an organizational soft strength. Additionally, I'm concerned that the Guild isn't the best clan for being a city-based human criminal, as they can't offer even a fraction of the benefits of the Arm, the GMHs, or noble clans. In fact, I don't think they offer much more than a PC clan. I've seen uncoded PC groups with nearly zero staff support easily out-compete Guild PCs, routinely.

And while you're right that a certain event was the straw that broke the camel's back and prompted me to post this thread, the fact is that players who have no idea what this event is could read this thread and still have no concrete idea.

[Dar]

Like me. I sort of gathered a basic possibility, but hardly any details. It's also such a common possibility, it really doesn't reveal anything.

Krak. Yessssh. I would visit and keep an eye on his daughter for 8 years+ after his death easy. Kept her mother "mostly" untouchable by the rinthi elements. Or helped anyway, she handled her own.  She's probably a playable entity at the moment, somewhere around 25-28?

[Dracul]

The Rinth is one of my favorite places to play a character over the years, and it can have plenty of teeth, although sometimes it seems to come and go with waves, that may not be the case virtually.

I've always felt like it was an area that could be further tapped into.

[Riev]

The Rinth is one of my favorite places to play a character over the years, and it can have plenty of teeth, although sometimes it seems to come and go with waves, that may not be the case virtually.

I've always felt like it was an area that could be further tapped into.

It comes and goes in waves, because one side of a war will twink up and cause mayhem while the other side is trying to roleplay out their struggle.
Then a month later, it reverses, and the OTHER side is the bunch of hidden backstab fighters and vice versa for years and years.

It always has teeth. Sometimes those teeth need to be sharpened, and sometimes they need someone to bite.

[HavokBlue]

The Rinth works best when the active entities are more interested in playing the narrative out than they are in backstabbing everyone with the wrong ears. It doesn't need to lose any teeth to do that.

It's a slum in a city, not a Fortnite battlefield. Folks ought to take that into consideration.

[Dracul]

So...I kinda wanna see elves take over the 'rinth.

Just sayin.

[Doublepalli]

I definitely don't. Most people don't grasp the elven mentality and abuse it.

[rohenne]

i have played a few long lived rinthi guilders over the years i have played, one of whom was face for about 6months irl. The Guild is by far my favorite clan i have been in, (lucky enough to have some real cool players in it with me at the time) and to me its not so much a problem of the rinth not having teeth as it is the folley crew not having any space that is remotely secure in any way whatsoever.

like i never had a problem with the fact that the byn, the arm, or a single templar with a braxat (walking through a "secret" entrance no-one should have known about IC really) could kill every single person in the folley on a whim, it was something i tried to play around while negotiating with those forces.

the problem that i had is that at any point a 3 day elf miscreant being cheesy could log on at 3am with master sneak and journeyman pick and a rudimentally ooc knowlege of the rinth layout and completely steal every single thing that the folley crew had that they could carry,  both at the folley and at the place that no-one is supposed to know about and that is supposed to be "secure".

i knew ic of at least three elves that had been in the "secret" and "secure" location and proved it just to make a flex.

like its waaay too easy for someone to ooc cheese the Guild in the worst of ways.  and people do.


thats not even getting into the lack of space for sparring or housing people or their things. 




and I do think it would be really cool for clanned guild to get some unique crafting options, maybe like weapons and armor that functioned well but were rinth safe or something even, because like its been said,   If you want to be a successful rinthi assassin the best way is to go join house kurac or the byn which doesn't make sense.

or you could join the folley crew, spar in unsafe locations where anyone could just gank you, not have a bed or anywhere to put your things really, have money you can't do anything with really once you fill out your tattoo locations. and hope that the boss is good at making fun for people out of nothing up until the arm decides that the 5 figures or so a year in bribes they are getting isn't good enough and start cheesily executing every PC with a rinthi accent and a dark,hooded cloak.


like from the perspective of a guild boss it takes an alarming amount of suspension of disbelief to think that the folley crew is remotely close to what the guild is defined as in the documentation or even ever could be no matter how much work is sunk into it.

[Riev]

I think you should know that, through PC efforts, that 'unknown' location got a little more secure recently. So unless someone in the Guild isn't doing their due diligence, it should be more than fine.

I've never, in all my time in the Guild, had a problem with people stealing from the Guild, once that measure was put in place. The issue then became "instant backstabs by rough-circle elves" and a lack of response from Guild NPCs when two clanned elves are yelling about how "the Guild is a bunch of pussies" outside the Folley, and killing PCs who try to engage.

[Brokkr]

Folks seem to get upset when a mul is animated to remind elves that the Guild is bigger and more powerful than any of the elven rinth tribes, irregardless of how much time they have spent skilling their character up.

[kahuna]

Folks seem to get upset when a mul is animated to remind elves that the Guild is bigger and more powerful than any of the elven rinth tribes, irregardless of how much time they have spent skilling their character up.

I think the discrepancy here would be that the guild doesn't seem powerful at all. There are far more elven npcs, the east side is larger and there is more turf there.  Historically elves have been more powerful over the years. If the guild truly is powerful it doesn't show itself icly.

Also this whole thread could be applied to any clan that gets overlooked. There are plenty of other areas of the game that don't get any virtual help and I'm fine with that. Trying to force a clan like the guild to succeed however is never going to work. The criminal element is difficult to make work.

[John]

Folks seem to get upset when a mul is animated to remind elves that the Guild is bigger and more powerful than any of the elven rinth tribes, irregardless of how much time they have spent skilling their character up.

Your right. I imagine it is pretty disheartening to have your PCs constantly be able to get stolen from, killed at-will and have all of their operations destroyed in 1 RL night when your meant to be part of the most powerful mafia in the game.

Staff reminding players that "Players are inconsequential. Staff can always kill you at any time whenever we want" doesn't really address that issue. In any capacity.

[Brokkr]

If you play solely by the code, expect the RP element to potentially come back and bite you in the ass if you've neglected the virtual world.

This is a role play game first.  The Guild is the most powerful organization in the Rinth.  How powerful individual PCs are, or are not, does not change that.

[John]

If you play solely by the code, expect the RP element to potentially come back and bite you in the ass if you've neglected the virtual world.

This is a role play game first.  The Guild is the most powerful organization in the Rinth.  How powerful individual PCs are, or are not, does not change that.

Do you actually understand the complaint your addressing? Because "oh noes. Staff animated a mul and killed everyone" isn't relevant to rohenne's post. At all.

So if you are responding to someone in this thread, maybe quote them? Otherwise it sounds like you're introducing an unrelated argument which is "people get pissy when staff give in world responses to unrealistic play". But I haven't read every post, so if you are responding to someone in the thread I wouldn't mind seeing their original post if you could point it out to me

[rohenne]

I think you should know that, through PC efforts, that 'unknown' location got a little more secure recently. So unless someone in the Guild isn't doing their due diligence, it should be more than fine.

I've never, in all my time in the Guild, had a problem with people stealing from the Guild, once that measure was put in place. The issue then became "instant backstabs by rough-circle elves" and a lack of response from Guild NPCs when two clanned elves are yelling about how "the Guild is a bunch of pussies" outside the Folley, and killing PCs who try to engage.

sorry i didn't know but thats cool if those little loopholes were plugged.

[Dracul]

If you play solely by the code, expect the RP element to potentially come back and bite you in the ass if you've neglected the virtual world.

This is a role play game first.  The Guild is the most powerful organization in the Rinth.  How powerful individual PCs are, or are not, does not change that.

A serious disconnect happens when the PC crew doesn't match up with the virtual crew. There are times when the guild crew is getting splattered by elves or militia and just can't seem to retaliate, they don't have an effective assassin , or they have a crew leader who...isn't doing much.

I think you should know that, through PC efforts, that 'unknown' location got a little more secure recently. So unless someone in the Guild isn't doing their due diligence, it should be more than fine.

I've never, in all my time in the Guild, had a problem with people stealing from the Guild, once that measure was put in place. The issue then became "instant backstabs by rough-circle elves" and a lack of response from Guild NPCs when two clanned elves are yelling about how "the Guild is a bunch of pussies" outside the Folley, and killing PCs who try to engage.

I would like to hear reasonable suggestions on this one. I've been told that this would result in a barrage of tainted arrows and daggers to fly out of the folley...but how?
Wishing up?

• So as the attacker, it's certainly responsible.
  As the defender...that sounds like wishing up for help (even if if it is enforcing the gameworld) and I would be hard pressed to 'wish all Hey an elf is threatening my character, can you animate someone to murder them because I can't:
  

Not just asking questions here and poking fingers, but, my suggestions would be to have a few more npcs as well as npcs with the skill throw/crossbow use that can be ordered. This creates another edge of the sword as it could be abused...but it could also be used to enforce that very situation.

[rinthrat]

I know the Jaxa Pah are not open, but - are they really that powerless, even virtually, compared to the guild?

[kahuna]

A serious disconnect happens when the PC crew doesn't match up with the virtual crew. There are times when the guild crew is getting splattered by elves or militia and just can't seem to retaliate, they don't have an effective assassin , or they have a crew leader who...isn't doing much.

This could be argued for every clan. Staff can't give virtual support to every clan. PCs stick to PCs. If you begin to favor one clan over the other with virtual resources it becomes a mess. I'm not saying it can't happen, with RPTs and such but generally just giving virtual support to the guild is going to show favoritism to that clan. How many clans out there are "powerful" but have 1-2 PCs active? Do these clans deserve to have NPCs loaded up around their turf? What about 'unit' NPCs? Who decides which clans get what? Considering how arbitrary and ambiguous "powerful" seems to be defined just in this thread alone I have no idea if something like this would be beneficial or detrimental to the game.

No one wants to play against a loaded deck. When you give virtual support to a clan I'll have little desire to play anywhere near that clan because I know I'm screwed as an indie.

[Narf]

I don't know how feasible it is codewise, but it would be interesting to create a "wanted" status for the rinth that applies to specific gangs. So if a PC assaults a gang member they become wanted with that particular gang for a time.

This would take away some of the need for staff oversight, and would make paying attention to colors and territory more important.

[Kyviantre]

I don't know how feasible it is codewise, but it would be interesting to create a "wanted" status for the rinth that applies to specific gangs. So if a PC assaults a gang member they become wanted with that particular gang for a time.

This would take away some of the need for staff oversight, and would make paying attention to colors and territory more important.

No idea how hard it would be codewise either, but I +1 this...it sounds like a very good plan!

[mansa]

I don't know how feasible it is codewise, but it would be interesting to create a "wanted" status for the rinth that applies to specific gangs. So if a PC assaults a gang member they become wanted with that particular gang for a time.

This would take away some of the need for staff oversight, and would make paying attention to colors and territory more important.

A rag-clad beggar has arrived from the south.

A rag-clad beggar has joined the dark, hooded figure's fight!

A rag-clad beggar has arrived from the south.
A rag-clad beggar has arrived from the south.
A rag-clad beggar has arrived from the south.
A rag-clad beggar has arrived from the south.
...

[Armaddict]

HA.

Brokkr's posts are more often than not hilarious.

[Doublepalli]

If you play solely by the code, expect the RP element to potentially come back and bite you in the ass if you've neglected the virtual world.

This is a role play game first.  The Guild is the most powerful organization in the Rinth.  How powerful individual PCs are, or are not, does not change that.

So if we roleplay, we're told that staff would prefer us to handle it IC and not resort to our CODED clan backing us up with support.

If we don't roleplay and just go code, we are punished.

And if we have super long lived max combatants, they get killed by animated gith they've killed a thousand times before with 0 challenge, or an arrow to the knee as a "Realistic world response."

Because in the past, this hasn't been the case when I and others have 'roleplayed accordingly.'

It's been, well these players totally ignored roleplay and abused code to get at you and/clan pvp wise - now roleplay accordingly or suffer staff animation PK.