Mdesc-hiding masks

[Lizzie]

Cind, the mask was not misused in the first place. It was the way people acted about them, how far out of the way they went to get them and the value of them. Of course all that was because they were so hard to get.

Lizzie, You are looking at this from a rather odd and unrealistic angle...AND by definition... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disguise a mask of any kind is indeed a disguise. A mask concealing the entire head and face along with eyes is REALLY a disguise. Almost everything else in a mdesc is covered by every pc all the time anyway. You are the one being unrealistic about how much you actually see and notice on a PC. After all, you are right, somebody might say in mdesc that they have a mane of purple hair going down their back. But do you rp seeing that when they are wearing a cloak with the hood up?

If they have a rippling curly mass of hair down  to their back, you bet your bippie I'll notice that it's purple with their hood up. Hoods don't cover faces. They shadow faces. And they don't even do that very well when the light is cast directly toward their face. I roleplay seeing whatever it makes sense for my character to see. If their mdesc says they're covered head to toe in tattoos (not uncommon), I will NOT tell anyone that I know this person is covered head to toe in tattooes. In fact, I'd find that mdesc jarring, because it makes no sense for someone who is *usually* clothed - to display all those inks. The mdesc is intended to describe the person in the way that most fits how we would normally see them. The whole "if naked, you might noticed..." or "if allowed, you might blah blah..." it jarring.

What do I see when the person is however they are usually? If that changes, that's what the tdesc is for. If they chop off their hair, or have it greased and tightly controlled away from their face so there's no chance that the wind would have blown a few locks of violet purple into view, then they can add a tdesc so that the reader knows that the reader's character shouldn't be able to notice that their hair is purple.

A mask is one piece of a disguise. If Lord Templar Angel Sath showed up in the Gaj wearing a gith mask plus his usual garb, NOT wearing gloves, thus displaying his signet rings, with his templar pendant, even if he took his robe off so that "templar" is no longer in his sdesc - we would all know he's Lord Templar Sath. No one would start screaming that a gith stole the templar's clothing. It just would make zero sense for anyone to do that.

[X-D]

So...you can see what color his hair is and length how now?

Now, put on a full head mask.....and that is NORMAL WEAR FOR 99.999999% of PCs in the game...I mean really now.

So, we are betting sweet bippies...how many bippies are you betting? What hair style or color, amount whatever is that guy wearing?
You cannot tell so stop saying that you can. What kind of clothes? Is he wearing clothes? how much does he weigh, Muscled? Not? You see Lizzie, you already get WAY more information from mdesc then you realistically would. If anything mdesc masks are MORE believable then what we have now.

Normal IG item.

Code Select Expand

This scrub-colored sandcloth duster has been reinforced across the
shoulders and elbows by smooth, grey-dyed hide.  Dyed in an alternating
pattern, the interlocking tawny yellow, greyish-green and tan shapes blend
at the edges, lending an appearance of camouflage cover the front and back
of this duster.  Deep inner pockets line the inside of it and a flap of
sandcloth drapes over the back like an aba with drawstrings to form it into
a hood that could be adjusted to fit tightly about the face and head.
Smooth, grey-stained bone buttons line the front. 

So, basically that is a hoodie...you can actually pull it tight...so...what color hair would he have then? Hell, what shape ears?

[Hauwke]

You forgot the face wrap and cloth wound up around his neck to keep sand out, so once that mask goes on you can't even tell how thick his neck is, or the fact that he even has a beard.

Edit to add: Also the helmet and gorget, removing the ability to even attempt to figure out how large his head is. And the armor making him look fatter than he otherwise would. And the weapons on his belt keeping the robe from sitting right, again preventing things from being seen properly. Not to mention the numerous packs everyone has.

[X-D]

Oh, I know Hauwke...But I am trying to give these things to her in small bites. And I like Lizzie, but I am beginning to wonder if a mask touched her when she was young.





This one is full head mask and a blanket (think some of the rinthi cloaks...ratty blankets I think some say).

Male? Female? What can you tell here?

[Lizzie]

Well then there's no need for masks at all, is there? If you want your mdesc to be obscured, wear a cloak with a hood, keep it closed, and put a facewrap on your face. Or a full-head helm if you want armor protection. Or sunslits and a scarf. And change the code of the game so that wearing a cloak over clothes with the hood up completely obscures the mdesc.

[X-D]

Lizzie, I have advocated that for YEARS!!!!

I advocate ANY method to obscure mdesc.  As long as it is EASY, common and cheap.

Oh, and these...just because badass RL stuff.





One more...full head masks.

[Veselka]

I've played other MUDs where cloaks completely obscure sdesc / main description. They were not broken, or abused, but people walking around fully obscured raised suspicion immediately, and attracted the attention of authorities.

Our game is already pretty much there. Militia invariably look at people masked/hooded with suspicion, but can still see their mdesc, so that is their work around.

Like I've been saying, if these were ubiquitous but illegal, I don't see what the abuse issue would be.

If anything, conflict is stifled because with the combination of the Way and looking at someone's main description, the chances of them remaining an unknown quantity after committing a crime are nearly zilch.

That isn't to say that a lack of main description should be infallible. Like Lizzie pointed out, equipment plays a major role. If a criminal is stupid enough to commit a crime in their street clothing, they should be recognized. But people should be able to hide in plain sight, with difficulty, to pull off crimes, to raid, and to otherwise play the 'Antagonist' role without only living for a RL week.

[Jihelu]

The mud I've seen that did this well was Haven where you could alter clothes that hide parts of your description. So you could assign to a hoodie that when the hood is raised, they can't see your hair anymore.

It was pretty fuckin complicated, I thought, but it was cool.

Could also make it so when you had no pants your cock was out.

[Bogre]

What would the mechanic be to reveal the identity of the mdesc-hiding mask wearer?

An assess -v possible to reveal someone's sdesc, if it's just a dark hood, maybe from watch skill functionality. Removal of the mask if you have to see underneath it.

Granted, I can see the idea of coming up with two mdescs being daunting to new players, so maybe make it optional, and have a flag for mdesc obscuring items so you just can't wear one if you don't have a masked mdesc created?

I'm cool with that.

Or it just doesn't substitute a new desc, just defaults to your mdesc if you haven't set a different one.

[tapas]

These discussions are always silly to me.

You live in a world with hundreds of thousands of people, living and breathing right next to you. How the heck are you going to recognize the one that stole your dagger unless they are put in a police line-up? Anyone should be able to get lost in a crowd even if you did catch their wavy hair or their gap-tooth.

The problem isn't descriptions. The problem is that players deploy ooc deduction to determine the culprit.

I'm not suggesting that I'm not guilty of this. But The solution is really just better play.

[X-D]

If the solution was better play this would be a mush.

Better to have it so one need not leave things to the subjective.

[MatisseOrOtherwise]

A small idea: What if mdesc is only hidden when three or more sdesc hiding items are worn and active? Raised hood + facewrap + worn mask = something like,

"Heavily concealed as they are, you are unable to make out much regarding this individual's identity. However, you can discern the following:

[Small 'assess -v' like stats, such as 'They are older than you. They are heavier than you. They are taller than you. They are armed.']"

[Lizzie]

A small idea: What if mdesc is only hidden when three or more sdesc hiding items are worn and active? Raised hood + facewrap + worn mask = something like,

"Heavily concealed as they are, you are unable to make out much regarding this individual's identity. However, you can discern the following:

[Small 'assess -v' like stats, such as 'They are older than you. They are heavier than you. They are taller than you. They are armed.']"

Raised hood and/or other device intended to cover and shadow the head (battle helmet, cowl, etc), PLUS facewrap (or mask) PLUS an actual outer garment that is closeable AND in the closed position (some of those outer garments don't close and therefore don't hide the dress or cuirrass or shirt or whatever being worn beneath them).

I'd be fine with that. If you obscure your head, face, and close your cloak around your body to obscure the outfit and equipment beneath the cloak, then it stands to reason no one would be able to see your sdesc or mdesc.

HOWEVER - it also stands to reason that anyone caught doing this inside a building more than 30 seconds after entering it (where there's no sandstorm to justify it) would be considered automatically suspect, and the *player* of that character would have absolutely zero valid complaint if they were arrested, jailed, or killed by the local authorities. Could even add a toggle to the crim code with a 30-second delay on any indoor room that's open to the public.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

A small idea: What if mdesc is only hidden when three or more sdesc hiding items are worn and active? Raised hood + facewrap + worn mask = something like,

"Heavily concealed as they are, you are unable to make out much regarding this individual's identity. However, you can discern the following:

[Small 'assess -v' like stats, such as 'They are older than you. They are heavier than you. They are taller than you. They are armed.']"

I like it.

[Jihelu]

I kinda like the idea of certain shops, self respecting ones and some stalls in the bazaar, should ask you remove your hood/mdesc disguise before doing business or within a certain time frame because they don't want you trying to rob them.

[Cind]

I like Lizzie's idea, but I wouldn't want it to be coded, because anything could happen in the game. As an example that used to happen a few years ago with a certain Fale, he would stop his carriage in front of a tavern and his two or three guards would generally have their hoods up, I think, while inside the tavern. The code, I -think-, should not be changed to have those three attacked by soldiers because they had their hoods up sometimes. Also, they were fancy I-work-for-a-noble cloaks, which even a half-giant soldier would recognize and not attack if nothing else were happening. As an example.


The culture already seems to be there, but yes, perhaps shopkeepers should refuse service unless your hood were down and there was no facewrap item on your face slot. For employed persons with obvious armbands/patches, this would be so they could recognize you and get to your service quickly, probably overlooking nonemployed persons in the process. Many of the benefits of being employed seem to be something that can only be rped at the moment, but the important benefits are definitely hardcoded.