OK, nevermind.

[MeTekillot]

I'm not a sociopath. Also, thank you, Dar.

[Synthesis]

I think it's universally accepted that ragequitting and the shit-talking associated with it is at -least- as poor form as gloating about making someone ragequit.  Maybe it's given a little more of a pass, though, because the ragequitter has already suffered some (at least perceived) loss.

Maybe they both are dicks.  Maybe they both need a gentle talking-to.  However, giving the ragequitter a gentle talking-to while calling the gloater a dick strikes me as an unfair approach to the situation.

[Miradus]

I wasn't going to say that, but yeah ... a spade's a spade. We have a few spades, some self-diagnosed and some not.

I just want to say that they aren't the ENTIRE playerbase.

You're going to find as normal of people here as you are on any other text mud on the internet. Hrm. That didn't come out right either.

[Heade]

I'm not a sociopath.

Without turning this into nitpicking differences, you do realize that the definitions of someone with NPD and someone defined as a Sociopath are pretty much 100% overlap, right?

They're basically synonyms, with one having fallen out of use in recent years as to not piss off the sociopaths, instead referring to them as having NPD. No one is EVER diagnosed as a sociopath these days, because the term carries some negative connotation. And the last thing you want to do, if you work with people who have these disorders, is make a sociopath feel insulted IRL.

[Miradus]

Let's not make the thread about him. Let's make it about the OP's experience, and the experience of other newbies entering into our world.

[Synthesis]

I'm not a sociopath.

Without turning this into nitpicking differences, you do realize that the definitions of someone with NPD and someone defined as a Sociopath are pretty much 100% overlap, right?

They're basically synonyms, with one having fallen out of use in recent years as to not piss off the sociopaths, instead referring to them as having NPD. No one is EVER diagnosed as a sociopath these days, because the term carries some negative connotation. And the last thing you want to do, if you work with people who have these disorders, is make a sociopath feel insulted IRL.

I think you may be confusing antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic personality disorder.

[Heade]

Let's not make the thread about him. Let's make it about the OP's experience, and the experience of other newbies entering into our world.

Yeah, I'm with you. I just think that's difficult to do without addressing the OOC behavior that might make them feel that way. No one should just ignore shitty player behavior OOCly. People should be held to account for their OOC behavior.

If that was me who did whatever this was IC, my GDB response likely would have been something like this:

"I'm sorry you felt that way about what happened. I think maybe my character had something to do with that, and appologize if it put you off, but it made perfect sense for my character to do. I hope, before you give up on the game, that you might reach out OOCly and see if you can get some guidance that might help you enjoy the game more. OOCly, there are plenty of us here to help!"

I think you may be confusing antisocial personality disorder with narcissistic personality disorder.

No, not really. Just look at the wikipedia entry for NPD. It references being used as a synonym for sociopathy in the first line or two, I think.

Also, there are plenty of other articles talking about the difference between NPD and Sociopathy, which is a very, very fine difference. All sociopaths are narcicists, but not all narcicists are sociopaths. They share identical personality traits with the exception that it's said that sociopaths are essentially the most cunning and manipulative of narcicists.

So, you want to get a Narcicist to admit to being a sociopath? Tell them: "No, you're right, sociopaths are cunning."

[Armaddict]

Honestly, with the way that some of us view the game and talk about the game, I'm not surprised that even in the discord this impression could be made.

I'll admit that I'm not the most friendly person even in OOC when it comes to discussing the 'harshness' of the game...mostly because I don't believe that being all gentle and empathetic in discussion of how violent the game can be (how violently it can -end- for a character) is entirely helpful in preparing them for that event.

I do, however, try to help when I can without it getting into my own enjoyment of the game.  But it's not really a -wrong- assessment on their part; some of us do revel in the cruelty of it all.  It's just a fine line between the enjoyment of doing it to -another person-, and the enjoyment of doing it as a full realization -of the game- in all of its glory.

In other words, it can be very hard to recognize the difference between 'They were just griefing me' and 'They were playing an utterly cruel dude and are completely unapologetic for it.'  I don't think 'well played out scenes' are the answer for the same reasons as have been discussed in a huge amount of posts on the matter (I'm only saying this to pre-empt the response).  I think people just need to accept that things actually -sting- in this game when they go poorly; not just for the character, but for the player...and so when Metekillot says those kinds of things, I don't think it's helpful in the least, but I do think it also pushes for tough skins in the playerbase.  It's not always a feel-good game, which is part of the beauty of it.  You just have to be able to handle misfortune with -some- degree of grace.

[Synthesis]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the irony in the OP's signature line?

[RogueGunslinger]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the irony in the OP's signature line?

Oh damn, that is funny.

[Miradus]

I feel like I been trolled now.

[Heade]

I'll admit that I'm not the most friendly person even in OOC when it comes to discussing the 'harshness' of the game...mostly because I don't believe that being all gentle and empathetic in discussion of how violent the game can be (how violently it can -end- for a character) is entirely helpful in preparing them for that event.

But this, right here where we're talking? This isn't the game.

There is no reason to act that way OOCly. Some people are dicks on discord, too.

And while I generally am against censorship of ideas, language, and discussions, I don't think that we should support or pander to people who OOCly want to taunt, torment, grief, or otherwise troll other players in an effort to make them have a bad time OOCly. So no, I don't want to see them banned or anything, but I think it should be perfectly acceptable to point out when someone is being an asshole OOCly, without people jumping to the defense of people's right to be an unfiltered jackass towards PLAYERS.

The idea that it is your responsibility, in any way, to prepare people for the harshness of the gameworld by being a dick IRL is absolutely absurd. That sounds like an excuse to be an asshole. A bad one, even.

[roughneck]

I'm pretty sure I saw this go down, because the post was very close to this time.

The thing is, the guy who likely fucked the OP over also got fucked over.

And indirectly another guy got fucked over due to the opportunities provided by the event.

And in fucking over the original guy who fucked the OP over, at least one, and maybe more PC's were pulled into the event and had some excitement.

So... ya, it's tough getting fucked over, but there's layers to the shit! And, it can make fun for a lot of people. Fun you may not see when the fucking over is happening.

Also, allies aren't worth anything if there's nobody for them to help you not be fucked over by. Armageddon being a game of fucking people over, or getting fucked over, makes friends and alliances made in Armageddon that much more deep, or tenuous/volatile, or precious.

All that being said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf6vedZibAU

[Synthesis]

Way to mischaracterize what Armaddict said.  There is a vast gulf of possibility between being gentle and empathetic and being an asshole.

Nobody is pandering to griefers  .

[Heade]

Nobody is pandering to griefers  .

Oh no? What Met said is obviously taunting/griefing someone who had a bad time with the game. So let's stop defending him, then what you said right here might be true.

[roughneck]

Also.

If you quit something on the internet every you think someone is unkind or unfair.... you won't find many homes on the internet.

[Miradus]

Too true.

I think just a policy of "be what you want to see" is in order. You act like an asshole, we're going to see everyone else act like assholes.

Something I particularly work on myself. For nigh on fifty years now, my go-to reaction is asshole.

[Synthesis]

Nobody is pandering to griefers  .

Oh no? What Met said is obviously taunting/griefing someone who had a bad time with the game. So let's stop defending him, then what you said right here might be true.

Taunting and griefing are not the same thing.

And I already agreed with the possibility (likely) that Metekillot's post was a bit dickish.

My point, at the moment, is that we don't need to defend OP, either.

You seem to be mistaking disagreement with you as agreement with Metekillot, even though there are more than two possible sides of this argument.  BSAB, is what I'd probably settle on, if forced to.

[Heade]

Taunting and griefing are not the same thing.

We can agree to disagree, then.

[Synthesis]

Metekillot obviously does not play the game only to reap noob tears from GDB ragequits  .

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with taking pleasure in a W, but obviously the public gloating about it was uncalled-for.  The taunt was merely hyperbole, unless Metekillot would like to weigh in and admit that indeed he only plays for pwnage.

[Heade]

Metekillot obviously does not play the game only to reap noob tears from GDB ragequits  .

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with taking pleasure in a W, but obviously the public gloating about it was uncalled-for.  The taunt was merely hyperbole, unless Metekillot would like to weigh in and admit that indeed he only plays for pwnage.

You don't need to play a game solely to grief people in order to grief them. Liking mudsex too doesn't suddenly make someone's IC and OOC griefing not griefing any more. The reasons someone plays the game are irrelevant to the topic at hand. How we interact with each other on an OOC basis is literally the only thing I've taken issue with, here.

I think we've beat this corpse long enough.

[Synthesis]

Metekillot obviously does not play the game only to reap noob tears from GDB ragequits  .

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with taking pleasure in a W, but obviously the public gloating about it was uncalled-for.  The taunt was merely hyperbole, unless Metekillot would like to weigh in and admit that indeed he only plays for pwnage.

You don't need to play a game solely to grief people in order to grief them. Liking mudsex too doesn't suddenly make someone's IC and OOC griefing not griefing any more. The reasons someone plays the game are irrelevant to the topic at hand. How we interact with each other on an OOC basis is literally the only thing I've taken issue with, here.

I think we've beat this corpse long enough.

Are you implying some definition of griefing that isn't strictly within-game?  Because that's a novel definition.

A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.

[Heade]

Metekillot obviously does not play the game only to reap noob tears from GDB ragequits  .

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with taking pleasure in a W, but obviously the public gloating about it was uncalled-for.  The taunt was merely hyperbole, unless Metekillot would like to weigh in and admit that indeed he only plays for pwnage.

You don't need to play a game solely to grief people in order to grief them. Liking mudsex too doesn't suddenly make someone's IC and OOC griefing not griefing any more. The reasons someone plays the game are irrelevant to the topic at hand. How we interact with each other on an OOC basis is literally the only thing I've taken issue with, here.

I think we've beat this corpse long enough.

Are you implying some definition of griefing that isn't strictly within-game?  Because that's a novel definition.

A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.

Yes, I suppose I am. I think griefer/griefing can be summed up with just the second half of your posted definition, here, as I demonstrated above. That's the funny thing about language. It isn't as rigid as you'd probably prefer it to be. Lots of room for interpretation.

[MeTekillot]

The gloating was a challenge I hope gets taken up but I also like to win. I'm not going to apologize only because I'm not the one who started with casting aspersions on people's character because bad things happened to me in a game whose entire them is dealing with bad things happening to you.

[Brokkr]

Locking this thread before it reaches the end of the death spiral it is in.

Thanks for mostly likely validating OP opinion in the player base.