OK, nevermind.

[luciano]

I have realized I need to accept that Armageddon is not the right game for me.

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty. Well.. who am I to judge? I know that's a thing for lots of people. So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

This doesn't require an answer. It's just a kind of farewell message, I guess.

[oggotale]

The players relish it or the characters?

[Heade]

I have realized I need to accept that Armageddon is not the right game for me.

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty. Well.. who am I to judge? I know that's a thing for lots of people. So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

This doesn't require an answer. It's just a kind of farewell message, I guess.

Sorry to hear that you feel this way. I see you haven't had a lot of posts on the GDB. Perhaps someone here or on the discord could give you pointers and help to facilitate the sort of RP you're looking for. Zalanthas can be a harsh world, and cruelty, greed, betrayal, and murder are a big part of that. But the counterpoints to all of those exist as well.

If you decide to give it another shot and would like to discuss ways that you might be able to better pursue the type of RP you're looking for, feel free to PM me on discord and I'll be happy to chat!

[Dar]

Sorry to hear it.

It's true. The major part of the theme of the game is cruelty and harshness. Which is a unique setting, but not for everyone. Wish you the best of luck!

[Miradus]

It is to be considered that some of the most wicked, cruelest villains are just trying to give you a story. The "bad" is to just kill you outright with no interaction.

As a raider, I've often ridden up on people and made all sorts of blustering threats about killing or robbing them, but then acted satisfied with some cooked food or water out of their bag. And sometimes if I'm established I'll offer them a job getting me X or Y from the city.

If you've quit ... you've quit. I understand. But I hope other players can distinguish the difference between "IC cruelty and evil" and OOC cruelty and evil.

We're not bad. We want you to have a good time too. Most of us.

[MeTekillot]

I think this thread is about something that I did and I've got to say that threads like it are the reason I continue playing. Are you a bad enough dude that you'll get good enough at the game that people will one day make threads like this in response to things that you've done, luciano?

[Miradus]

This isn't DOTA. "Git gud scrub" is never an appropriate response.

I may be an evil warlord or henchman in the game but I don't want anyone having a bad time OOC.

[Feco]

I have realized I need to accept that Armageddon is not the right game for me.

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty. Well.. who am I to judge? I know that's a thing for lots of people. So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

This doesn't require an answer. It's just a kind of farewell message, I guess.

I hope you mean that it's the characters being unkind and cruel, and not the players/community!

Hope you give it another shot some day.

[Bogre]

I'm with Miradus, here.

No reason at all to take OOC enjoyment from someone who has a bad taste in their mouth. Can't really complain about 'Small World Syndrome' if you're actively trying to force out people willing to fill it.

---------------

For my own thoughts, I don't necessarily think the majority of the game's players are into cruelty and unkindness. Some, perhaps. And a larger proportion of -characters- might be evil or assholes. The hope is that even whilst being villainous, dangerous or whatever, they still take the IC world into account. And it is, yes, quite a harsh world. That doesn't mean there isn't space for someone who's good or empathetic in it - it's just they might have to also be kind of a little jaded. A lot of my characters, for instance, will generally be helpful towards others, even if they are spooky or shenanigan-prone.

I think finding good in the harsh desert world is one of the cool things about Arm. When characters band together, bond, etc: that's when Arm gets cool. I think that characters in clans are an excellent way to get there. But - sometimes characters do have to put in that time.

If you want, feel free to find us on the discord and ask, maybe we can help you figure out some stuff that might be more your style.

[Heade]

I think this thread is about something that I did and I've got to say that threads like it are the reason I continue playing. Are you a bad enough dude that you'll get good enough at the game that people will one day make threads like this in response to things that you've done, luciano?

Wow, dude. You need help. This sort of thing isn't a badge of honor or even notoriety. No one looks at it and thinks you're cool if you're actively happy about ruining other people's time.

[Synthesis]

I think this thread is about something that I did and I've got to say that threads like it are the reason I continue playing. Are you a bad enough dude that you'll get good enough at the game that people will one day make threads like this in response to things that you've done, luciano?

Wow, dude. You need help. This sort of thing isn't a badge of honor or even notoriety. No one looks at it and thinks you're cool if you're actively happy about ruining other people's time.

It depends on whether the other person's time was ruined by circumstances that were justified or not.  Some people aren't going to be happy losing, whether they deserved to lose or not.

[Heade]

I think this thread is about something that I did and I've got to say that threads like it are the reason I continue playing. Are you a bad enough dude that you'll get good enough at the game that people will one day make threads like this in response to things that you've done, luciano?

Wow, dude. You need help. This sort of thing isn't a badge of honor or even notoriety. No one looks at it and thinks you're cool if you're actively happy about ruining other people's time.

It depends on whether the other person's time was ruined by circumstances that were justified or not.  Some people aren't going to be happy losing, whether they deserved to lose or not.

That's not the issue, Synthesis. Regardless of whether or not the IC actions are justified, a complete lack of OOC empathy is not. We're not roleplaying here on the forums. Our behavior here reflects on us OOCly as people.

Revelling in causing someone to OOCly dislike the game, rather than trying to help them grow an appreciation of the game for what it is, isn't healthy for the community. Want to be a dick IC? Go for it! That's awesome. Want to be a dick OOCly? No thank you.

[Synthesis]

I think this thread is about something that I did and I've got to say that threads like it are the reason I continue playing. Are you a bad enough dude that you'll get good enough at the game that people will one day make threads like this in response to things that you've done, luciano?

Wow, dude. You need help. This sort of thing isn't a badge of honor or even notoriety. No one looks at it and thinks you're cool if you're actively happy about ruining other people's time.

It depends on whether the other person's time was ruined by circumstances that were justified or not.  Some people aren't going to be happy losing, whether they deserved to lose or not.

That's not the issue, Synthesis. Regardless of whether or not the IC actions are justified, a complete lack of OOC empathy is not. We're not roleplaying here on the forums. Our behavior here reflects on us OOCly as people.

Revelling in causing someone to OOCly dislike the game, rather than trying to help them grow an appreciation of the game for what it is, isn't healthy for the community. Want to be a dick IC? Go for it! That's awesome. Want to be a dick OOCly? No thank you.

I think the first post was equally dickish.  Ragequitting and saying the game would be great if it weren't for the other players?  Not exactly a polite exit.

[Bogre]

Doesn't sound like rage quit. Sounds like he tried the game and something was a turn off. I mean, it sounds like he really liked the worldbuilding and wanted to like the game.

The answer should be, "Let's help you find what you're looking for and have fun, maybe see exactly where you ran into obstacles to that," rather than flipping the virtual finger.

[Heade]

Doesn't sound like rage quit. Sounds like he tried the game and something was a turn off. I mean, it sounds like he really liked the worldbuilding and wanted to like the game.

The answer should be, "Let's help you find what you're looking for and have fun, maybe see exactly where you ran into obstacles to that," rather than flipping the virtual finger.

Pretty much my thoughts on it. Didn't sound dickish. Just sounds like maybe they didn't understand some elements of the game, and could use some help finding their niche. But with the offending player's response sounding like griefing OOCly gives them kicks, that isn't encouraging to anyone, is it?

OOC griefing has killed many games far more successful than Armageddon MUD.

[Synthesis]

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty....So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

How is that not dickish?  Instead of exploring other possibilities for their losses, they blame us for being sociopaths.

[Miradus]

Depending upon who he encountered in game ... he might not be wrong. We all know it.

But it is a roleplaying game with "factions". If I roll out of chargen with a Tuluk purple thing on my face, if I walk into a bar full of Nakis then I may expect to run into some assholes. They're roleplaying!

But the same players, when they're playing Tuluki and they see me rolling with the purple thang, they all rush right over to you and say, "Oh! Welcome, brother! His light! Let's get you in some better gear! Come hunting with us!" In fact, they'll smother the shit out of you with their love before you even get out of Morin's.

I cordially invite OP to give it another try in another location. If you want to PM me I can give you some advice. Not all concepts click in all spots at all times. The game is very, very fluid that way and even those who have been playing awhile have trouble knowing where their concept will best fit in at start.

There are some assholes, but I don't feel they represent ALL of the game community. Most of us want you to have a good time, even while we're maiming and dismembering you or plotting to steal your sid.

[Heade]

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty....So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

How is that not dickish?  Instead of exploring other possibilities for their losses, they blame us for being sociopaths.

Stating that they don't enjoy being the constant playthings of sociopaths isn't dickish unless you have some sort of complex about people not liking you treating them like shit. It's simply a preference they stated. And obviously, it's true. Some characters treat people like shit IC. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with not liking it.

Not liking it doesn't make them a dick, and a more constructive approach to building a community would be to help such players come up with ideas that might help them play in ways that minimize them being a victim all the time, without necessarily resorting to THEM having to play a sociopath.

Yes, at some point or another, almost all characters in arm end up being victims. But that doesn't mean we can't OOCly be considerate and empathize with a player that's having a tough time dealing with it.

[Synthesis]

I fell in love with the worldbuilding, the immersive roleplay, the detail and the broader concepts. I've made several tries, with different character concepts.

But I have been repeatedly put off by the fellow players who relish unkindness and cruelty for the sheer sake of unkindness and cruelty....So I have to let go of the parts I like, and accept this is not a community I want to be a part of.

How is that not dickish?  Instead of exploring other possibilities for their losses, they blame us for being sociopaths.

Stating that they don't enjoy being the constant playthings of sociopaths isn't dickish unless you have some sort of complex about people not liking you treating them like shit. It's simply a preference they stated. And obviously, it's true. Some characters treat people like shit IC. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with not liking it.

Not liking it doesn't make them a dick, and a more constructive approach to building a community would be to help such players come up with ideas that might help them play in ways that minimize them being a victim all the time, without necessarily resorting to THEM having to play a sociopath.

Yes, at some point or another, almost all characters in arm end up being victims. But that doesn't mean we can't OOCly be considerate and empathize with a player that's having a tough time dealing with it.

The dickish part is -assuming- that other players are sociopaths, instead of exploring other possibilities.  I really don't know why y'all are white-knighting for this guy.

[Miradus]

The dickish part is -assuming- that other players are sociopaths, instead of exploring other possibilities.  I really don't know why y'all are white-knighting for this guy.

Because it's a valid criticism.

Especially from the point of a newbie ...

My encouragement would be that, maybe spend a little more time and see how the big picture flows before assuming it's just cruel and harsh for no reason.

I ride up on you grebbing and I chop your head, steal your water and your awesome Kuraci gear you just bought, making you walk back to the city naked and broke. You think, "That guy's a dick!"

But then I ride back to Red Storm and hand over all the stuff I just stole from you to some Red Storm newbie and say, "Here, I got you some gear so hopefully you won't die. When you're ready, let's go back out and I'll show you where to get water."

So that Red Storm newbie thinks, "This guy is so nice!"

It's a game with factions. One man's dick is another man's best friend. Wait ... that didn't sound right. Screw it. You know what I meant.

[MeTekillot]

It really isn't a valid criticism. This post was a kneejerk to reaction to something that happened IC that they didn't like.

[Bogre]

The dickish part is -assuming- that other players are sociopaths, instead of exploring other possibilities.  I really don't know why y'all are white-knighting for this guy.

Benefit of the doubt. You don't know if he's conflating IC actions with OOC intentions, and I think it's worth hashing that out. What a newbie finds in game might make them think players are assholes, if they haven't gotten their head around the character / player divide quite yet and they realize that it's most likely just harsh characters.

[Dar]

The vibe I got from the post is that he made a solid attempt to like this game, but found the harshness and unkindness to be a turn off. That is nothing to fault him for. It is simply a matter of preference. I've been playing a lot of board games lately and there are people who actually detest non-cooperative games, but it is simply their freaking preference. They're not good, they're not bad, it is simply their choice. Hopefully later on in that player's life, he will try it again and maybe will enjoy it then.


I can honestly say I havent played a single character in my entire time, who wasnt a little bit sociopathic.

[Heade]

The dickish part is -assuming- that other players are sociopaths, instead of exploring other possibilities.  I really don't know why y'all are white-knighting for this guy.

Benefit of the doubt. You don't know if he's conflating IC actions with OOC intentions, and I think it's worth hashing that out. What a newbie finds in game might make them think players are assholes, if they haven't gotten their head around the character / player divide quite yet and they realize that it's most likely just harsh characters.

Exactly. And having a player OOCly taunt them on the GDB and claim credit for their bad time as the instant reaction to that reinforces what they thought to begin with.

And, with all due respect, here: Let's call a spade a spade. Met is a self-described sociopath with Narcissistic Personality Disorder IRL. If he's correct that the OP was in response to his actions, the OP's assertion was pretty accurate, regardless of whether it was justified IC or not.

[Dar]

The dickish part is -assuming- that other players are sociopaths, instead of exploring other possibilities.  I really don't know why y'all are white-knighting for this guy.

Benefit of the doubt. You don't know if he's conflating IC actions with OOC intentions, and I think it's worth hashing that out. What a newbie finds in game might make them think players are assholes, if they haven't gotten their head around the character / player divide quite yet and they realize that it's most likely just harsh characters.

Exactly. And having a player OOCly taunt them on the GDB and claim credit for their bad time as the instant reaction to that reinforces what they thought to begin with.

And, with all due respect, here: Let's call a spade a spade. Met is a self-described sociopath with Narcissistic Personality Disorder IRL. If he's correct that the OP was in response to his actions, the OP's assertion was pretty accurate, regardless of whether it was justified IC or not.

Nah. I doubt this is the case, Heade.  Met's post was simply a pretty unsubtle attempt to goad the player into 'manning up'. Something that could potentially work to motivate someone in a competitive game, or a sport. The "Git Gud Scrub" as Miradus mentioned. No need to read into it too negatively.