Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs

[boog]

We really just "sid store" NPCs who'll buy whatever you give 'em for a sid.

Or we could use Nergal's old code with exchanging items for goods. Or buying items by exchanging goods. I know people don't tend to have favorable opinions of him, but that code could be scribbled on a few NPCs in game and it'd be awesome and help get rid of food, or excess 'other' stuff by actually making it a sort of economic unit itself, even if that unit is very small.

Hand over five bits of chalton meat, you get half a full waterskin. Shit like that.

[Miggy]

I think the meat guy just overpays for a scrab steak, chalton steak etc. I don't think it could hurt to cut the amount he pays for stuff by half. And give him more coins. Seems weird that I can only get ten coins for a hide, but forty five for a bit of cooked meat. Also, one idea I liked from here, even though Synthesis said it (snark), sell your raw meat to those new cooks that don't wanna hunt. And make it CHEAP, so they will buy a bunch of it. Should be able to find plenty that would love to practice their cooking skills, now that many more non-hunters besides merchants have cooking as a skill.

Related, should still be able to get a nice amount of coins for a master cooked meal. Is it possible to let NPC's give more coins for high quality cooked items? Seems like it should be, since bandage allows more healing if someone good at it patches you up.

[Miradus]

I hate everything proposed here.

Didn't we just have a major meat overhaul, known as the "Great Cock Eating of '17"?

Or was that only for northern animals?

[Medena]

Huh?

[Seeker]

Huh?

Skinnable penises.  It's a thing in the North.

[Vex]

Realistically...

Stop, right there. No.

[gotdamnmiracle]

The OP was meant to point out those creatures that were forgotten, so to speak, during the overhaul. Apparently, it's now a derail to talk about the mechanics of chalton and their price in Allanak. Honestly, I think chalton drop an alright amount of goods and if there's a lot of meat rotting in the sun the just junk it. It's courteous.

Can we name more than dujats and a bird without getting too OOC? It's kind of a disappointment that kryl, for all their variety and nastiness primarily only drop a chunk of uniform shell and some stinky meat. You'd think certain ones would drop swordlike objects, clubs, curare-barbs, and various glands (beyond the obvious).  Just a related thought.

[Veselka]

In general the ecosystem around Allanak is a little odd and static. If the DesertSim were able to handle recognizing what PCs are out, how many PCs are in the same room together, and randomly generate threats/threatening creatures, that might make for a more interesting hunt.

Meaning to say --

1 PC, but sneaking and hidden - Lower chance of a random encounter
1 PC, not sneaking and hidden, with a mount - Higher chance of a random encounter
2-3 PCs, not sneaking or hidden - Higher chance of a random encounter, slightly larger/dangerous creature looking for prey (Desert tarantula, pack of jakhal, etc.)
3+ PCs, not sneaking or hidden, multiple mounts - Lower chance of a random encounter with smaller creatures, middling chance of encounter with a very large/dangerous creature or a Gith Warband, depending on region.

Depending on region, it would include things like Gith, Gortok, Kryl, and Cilops.

In general, more variability with dangerous creatures and their frequency (and lack of predictability where they roam) would be a welcome addition to the Desert. Though this isn't Dark Sun (And we seem to try to distance ourselves from the better parts of it), the wastes of Athas are supposed to be incredibly dangerous and inhospitable. But the Desert in general feels very welcoming and confusingly easy most of the time. Poisonous snakes become more of an annoyance for anyone who isn't a fresh newb PC without cures, and the same goes for Scorpions. Actual danger would be great, and coded into the game without a need for Staff intervention each time, to make it consistent.

[Miradus]

Kryl do need some work. There's so little reason to actually hunt and pursue one of the most interesting creatures in the game.

I think the salt flats need some work too. I'd like to see more tregil-esque creatures out there. Salt hoppers (bunnies) or something that makes going out there worthwhile. You put in an awesome new tent camp out there ... let's make it useful for something.

And finally ... this is almost a de-rail ... apologies ...

But the Silt Sea is a huge waste and disappointment. Nothing there but death. I'd like to see "silt canoes" or little shell "coracles" for the same price as a starting beetle. Let YOUNG characters do some silt exploration instead of putting it in the hands of "end game" characters who manage to save up thousands and then don't want to take any risk. Remove the silt horrors ... they add so little. Save them up for special RPT stuff. Instead, put some smaller, less murderous creatures out there that people can hunt and are valuable.

I know this would all be a big effort, but you could request for volunteers like you did with the meat overhaul.

[Synthesis]

In general the ecosystem around Allanak is a little odd and static. If the DesertSim were able to handle recognizing what PCs are out, how many PCs are in the same room together, and randomly generate threats/threatening creatures, that might make for a more interesting hunt.

Meaning to say --

1 PC, but sneaking and hidden - Lower chance of a random encounter
1 PC, not sneaking and hidden, with a mount - Higher chance of a random encounter
2-3 PCs, not sneaking or hidden - Higher chance of a random encounter, slightly larger/dangerous creature looking for prey (Desert tarantula, pack of jakhal, etc.)
3+ PCs, not sneaking or hidden, multiple mounts - Lower chance of a random encounter with smaller creatures, middling chance of encounter with a very large/dangerous creature or a Gith Warband, depending on region.

Depending on region, it would include things like Gith, Gortok, Kryl, and Cilops.

In general, more variability with dangerous creatures and their frequency (and lack of predictability where they roam) would be a welcome addition to the Desert. Though this isn't Dark Sun (And we seem to try to distance ourselves from the better parts of it), the wastes of Athas are supposed to be incredibly dangerous and inhospitable. But the Desert in general feels very welcoming and confusingly easy most of the time. Poisonous snakes become more of an annoyance for anyone who isn't a fresh newb PC without cures, and the same goes for Scorpions. Actual danger would be great, and coded into the game without a need for Staff intervention each time, to make it consistent.

Lack of predictability of roaming dangerous beasts absolutely would not be a welcome addition.  It's already stupid easy to die, even when you have virtually every part of the game world committed to memory.  If you think it feels safe, you either are blissfully unaware or you aren't actually taking risks.

[Veselka]

In general the ecosystem around Allanak is a little odd and static. If the DesertSim were able to handle recognizing what PCs are out, how many PCs are in the same room together, and randomly generate threats/threatening creatures, that might make for a more interesting hunt.

Meaning to say --

1 PC, but sneaking and hidden - Lower chance of a random encounter
1 PC, not sneaking and hidden, with a mount - Higher chance of a random encounter
2-3 PCs, not sneaking or hidden - Higher chance of a random encounter, slightly larger/dangerous creature looking for prey (Desert tarantula, pack of jakhal, etc.)
3+ PCs, not sneaking or hidden, multiple mounts - Lower chance of a random encounter with smaller creatures, middling chance of encounter with a very large/dangerous creature or a Gith Warband, depending on region.

Depending on region, it would include things like Gith, Gortok, Kryl, and Cilops.

In general, more variability with dangerous creatures and their frequency (and lack of predictability where they roam) would be a welcome addition to the Desert. Though this isn't Dark Sun (And we seem to try to distance ourselves from the better parts of it), the wastes of Athas are supposed to be incredibly dangerous and inhospitable. But the Desert in general feels very welcoming and confusingly easy most of the time. Poisonous snakes become more of an annoyance for anyone who isn't a fresh newb PC without cures, and the same goes for Scorpions. Actual danger would be great, and coded into the game without a need for Staff intervention each time, to make it consistent.

Lack of predictability of roaming dangerous beasts absolutely would not be a welcome addition.

Out of self preservation? Or do you think it would be less fun to not know when/if your lonesome ranger is going to be ambushed?

[Synthesis]

It's basic game design.

If I wanted to randomly die over and over again because RNGesus decided to fuck me, I'd play ADOM or Cataclysm DDA.

Armageddon is not a roguelike.

[Heade]

Or do you think it would be less fun to not know when/if your lonesome ranger is going to be ambushed?

If, by "be ambushed", you mean have something randomly spawn right on top of you that no amount of careful scouting, skill, or precaution could have possibly prevented, then yes, I'm with Synthesis. That is not at all fun for characters that we've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into developing the story of.

Synthesis is already trying to kill me. Let him do it. (not really, but maybe) 

[Veselka]

If I wanted to have fun, I would (and do) play other games than ArmageddonMUD when I'm pursuing wilderness type exploration and fun encounters, and a narrative/plot that has a beginning middle and end.

Basic Game Design also includes things like overarching narrative, random loot/treasure, random encounters, and basic advancement goals that are achievable within hours of play and not many many days of play. ArmageddonMUD doesn't have these things for the most part, and we play despite it.

D&D and pretty much any PnP has a 'random encounter' function built into it -- But somehow that's a rogue like? I don't exactly follow, but I suppose I see what you are saying. A certain amount of predictability, particularly from people who are used to Armageddon being what it was/is, is more desirable than unpredictability, likely where permadeath is concerned as well. You don't want to randomly die to a coded encounter that's unavoidable.

[Armaddict]

Eh.  Disagree.

There being a chance of more-than-usual danger in normally safe places is actually pretty integral to -this- game's design.  This ain't no MMO where we're gradually building everyone up to level whatever so that they can run instances and raids.  In -those- games, putting a level 20 in the level 10 area wouldn't make sense (and they still do it anyway).

In -this- game, there is supposed to be risk of death even if you're playing it safe.  The whole reason we actually -complain- about people not taking risks is because of this.  It lowers excitement when there is a literal formula for upward progression with minimal chance of the world actually being dangerous.  One could argue that this is what led to this entitlement of survivability that gets other players and their actions so much negative attention for being the only true source of danger to those who are playing it safe.

It's a dangerous world.  Let it be dangerous, instead of making it depend on player mistakes or newbieness.

No, not a proponent for 'A gith has arrived from somewhere nearby', but I -am- a proponent for 'This gith has wandered closer to the city than usual in search of prey.'  It makes 0 sense for the latter to almost never happen.

[Veselka]

Or do you think it would be less fun to not know when/if your lonesome ranger is going to be ambushed?

If, by "be ambushed", you mean have something randomly spawn right on top of you that no amount of careful scouting, skill, or precaution could have possibly prevented, then yes, I'm with Synthesis. That is not at all fun for characters that we've put hundreds and hundreds of hours into developing the story of.

Synthesis is already trying to kill me. Let him do it. (not really, but maybe) 

I was thinking not exactly 'right on top of you' but a couple rooms away, something to be engaged or not. Perhaps some right on top of you, but nothing that would immediately kill you. We already have poisonous snakes appear out of thin air, and Gith as well.

[Synthesis]

I think you all missed my edit where I said "it's already stupid easy to die."

It's just fine the way it is.  It doesn't need to be any more or less dangerous.

[Armaddict]

I'm not in support of random 'spawns' of any sort.

I'm in support of SimDesert no longer restricting the wandering of things that are more dangerous than normal.

[Synthesis]

I'm not in support of random 'spawns' of any sort.

I'm in support of SimDesert no longer restricting the wandering of things that are more dangerous than normal.

The wandering things still wander, so....

[Armaddict]

I'm not in support of random 'spawns' of any sort.

I'm in support of SimDesert no longer restricting the wandering of things that are more dangerous than normal.

The wandering things still wander, so....

They can be led, but cannot wander, according to the description of SimDesert when it came out.

[Synthesis]

I'm not in support of random 'spawns' of any sort.

I'm in support of SimDesert no longer restricting the wandering of things that are more dangerous than normal.

The wandering things still wander, so....

They can be led, but cannot wander, according to the description of SimDesert when it came out.

Alrighty.  You go ahead and go AFK in a certain few spots and see how that works out for you, bro.

[Miradus]

Unexpected spider is ... unexpected.

I've been playing "city folk" for awhile now and my recent transition back to wilderness characters has been problematic. I'm leaving my newb corpses everywhere while I relearn.

The environment is harsh enough to kill you dead in the early stages (less than 24 hours played) if you're unwary.

[Synthesis]

Unexpected spider is ... unexpected.

I've been playing "city folk" for awhile now and my recent transition back to wilderness characters has been problematic. I'm leaving my newb corpses everywhere while I relearn.

The environment is harsh enough to kill you dead in the early stages (less than 24 hours played) if you're unwary.

It's harsh enough to kill you way, way past 24 hours, especially if you're not a top-tier combat class.

[Miradus]

So true.

[Hauwke]

NPCs can even kill a PC waaaaay past that point. No matter how hogh your stats or skills, a big enough clusterfuck can still kill a guy.