ReOpening Tuluk: An HRPT Idea for Growth/Interest

[Lutagar]

tuluk was never oppressive for PCs as long as your character was polite then it was the (relative to Zalanthas) utopia it claimed to be and there was little reason to be discontent

there has to be actual oppression, laws that everyone knows is bureaucratic bullshit, otherwise what is oppressing you?

Edit: allanak is better at being tuluk than tuluk ever was because of stupid laws that leave you scratching your head like the spice ban or merchant licences

[gotdamnmiracle]

Why not outlaw weapons inside the city? Then that leaves plenty of opportunity for search and seizure, sneaky impromptu weapons, smuggled weapons into the city, etc. it could take the place of what spice fails to do in the South, because you don't NEED spice for anything, but you need weapons to murder/intimidate someone. Of course there would be organizations who could have them on certain property, but a bynner wandering around with a sword on his back? "No, no, no." Not unless they're directly acting under orders AND leaving the city or are accompanied by a templar/ or milita member.

That would drastically change play up in the North and it enforces the perma-policestate play-nice mentality.

Wdit: also no fucklicences.

[Lutagar]

continued politeness in tuluk should be a test of willpower and patience rather than naturally being amiable

there SHOULD be so much shit you want to complain about but you know better because doing so will only make things worse for you

[Bebop]

continued politeness in tuluk should be a test of willpower and patience rather than naturally being amiable

there SHOULD be so much shit you want to complain about but you know better because doing so will only make things worse for you

That's how Tuluk already was if you played it right.

[roughneck]

continued politeness in tuluk should be a test of willpower and patience rather than naturally being amiable

there SHOULD be so much shit you want to complain about but you know better because doing so will only make things worse for you

That's how Tuluk already was if you played it right.

I don't there was that much to complain about. To me, Tuluk always seemed like the Land of Milk and Honey, minus the Canaanites to fuck you up. Art and culture galore (not a sign of a poverty stricken or oppressed society), lots of coins, easy food and water.

Players did a good job of playing the society, but it lacked that Northern Korean gut-punch of actual starvation and oppression.

There is a big difference between:

Jewel-adorned, wine-swilling, beautiful poet professing love to the Sun King when they don't actual love the Sun King (why don't you, your life is awesome!?)

-and-

Dirty, terror-stricken, struggling denizen of the city professing allegiance to the Sun King, when they should actually be revolting but don't out of fear.

[Bebop]

continued politeness in tuluk should be a test of willpower and patience rather than naturally being amiable

there SHOULD be so much shit you want to complain about but you know better because doing so will only make things worse for you

That's how Tuluk already was if you played it right.

I don't there was that much to complain about. To me, Tuluk always seemed like the Land of Milk and Honey, minus the Canaanites to fuck you up. Art and culture galore (not a sign of a poverty stricken or oppressed society), lots of coins, easy food and water.

Players did a good job of playing the society, but it lacked that Northern Korean gut-punch of actual starvation and oppression.

There is a big difference between:

Jewel-adorned, wine-swilling, beautiful poet professing love to the Sun King when they don't actual love the Sun King (why don't you, your life is awesome!?)

-and-

Dirty, terror-stricken, struggling denizen of the city professing allegiance to the Sun King, when they should actually be revolting but don't out of fear.

Bebop Story Time

I had a character that was a Driamusek bard.  Driamusek are the epitome of politeness and ritualistic culture within the Circle.  She followed the rules, to a T and was hyper aware of social standing.

Then she starts to decide, is my art really art if I'm doing what everyone is doing?  I want to be a real artist.  She starts doing skellsbane to fuck with her mind.  Drinking.  Fucking an elf behind closed doors.  She's living a double life.  She's becoming a very dark human being.  She's constantly torn between being a loyalist and pushing her art to be real, expressive, true.

She's hired to put on a play for the Circle.  She starts constructing and subtly weaving in revolutionary ideas towing the line of the blind obedience and loyalty that is expected and subtly inferring that thinking and pushing the limits are real artistry.  She's pulled aside by the Faithful and told she's fucking shit up, she's poorly representing the culture, they know what she's doing behind closed doors.  She can complete her play, but after that she's going to get disappeared and she better not say shit.

She flees to Luir's for awhile.  She's told, hey it's okay, you can come back.  We've got shit sorted.  You're just trying to be an artist right?  She's pulled behind closed doors by her patron and promptly put to death by another bard in his office.  Her revolutionary play doesn't happen.

--------------------

I'm playing a thief named Reiko.  She's an orphan, poor, a kid, trying to scrape by the in the world.  She's weird and abandoned.  She becomes a shadow artist, a thief.  She's not great, but she's trying to be what she thinks a Tuluki could be.  She gets knocked up, has this kid.  She's a kid with a kid.  Her mate infuriates her.  The woman he flirts with infuriates her.  One day she splashes water in the face of some woman in the Sanctuary she feels threatened by.  Everyone is aghast.  She's trying to fit into this very "polite" society.  She's trying to be a thief while never outwardly being exposed as one.

One day she steals from a high-level Kadian.  After that she comes home one day and her baby is gone.  Abducted.  She's pulled aside by the Faithful, it's time to get disappeared.  She manages to flee into Under Tuluk.  She's a girl, she doesn't know what to do.  She's with her friend getting ready to flee south until she can come back for her baby.  She's clasping the hands of her friend to say goodbye.  She dies instantly to a bard sent to collect her head.

Her former mate lives for a long while as a loyalist and soldier, acting as though nothing ever happened in servitude to the Sun King.



--------------------

I'm playing Bo an Allanaki woman with a big gambling problem.  I junk all of her clothes and every possession she has.  I start her off with a blackened and bruised face.  She joins the Byn.  She starts fucking Sergeant Raul.  They're close, but never get too close because they're mercenaries.  She adopts a PC kid named Cal.  She gets knocked up.  Then one day, for reasons I do not know IG or OOC a Templar just decides to flippantly banish her from the city.  She takes her PC kid Cal and they flee to Tuluk.

Bo is not great at being a person.  She's addicted to gambling.  She spends and wastes every sid she earns.  She's hung up on Raul.  She's knocked up.  She goes off with the Byn sorcerer hunting one day and due to [redacted] ends up in a chasm in the Grey. A grand rescue mission occurs.  The scorcerer has his eye on her.  She makes it back alive, far less sane and more cut up than before.

But she keeps having magickal shit happen to her.  She keeps getting magickally attacked.  In Tuluk.  She's cursed.  Afraid and exiled she's just trying to survive.  Meanwhile, Cal her adopted kid is left to his own devices.  He's a capable thief.  A few people of note take notice.  He can be turned.  He can be turned to be a loyalist and a skilled shadow artist.  This poor Southron boy can be converted.  "You're doing great kid."  Bo's proud her kid is making something of himself, but she's fucked up and inevitably the Faithful take notice that she isn't a magicker, but she's a southron and cursed and bringing magickal affliction into the city tormented by an enemy she can't see or possibly match with no where to go.

She asks Cal not to tell anyone, but he's scared for her, young and naive.  He wants her to get help, surely they'll just help her. 

The Faithful pull her aside, it's time to get disappeared.  But don't worry.  Cal will be taken care of.  We'll even let you say goodbye if you promise to tell him to trust us, to work with us.  To do as we say.  Bo is brought before her adopted kid knowing this is the end, the last goodbye.  In a final, self-less attempt to save him she does as they ask.  "Hey kid, be good.  It'll be alright, trust these nice people.  Going away for awhile."  I might have been crying OOC.  (I was definitely crying OOC).  Bo, who is pregnant, is brought back and killed.  Cal realizes something isn't kosher.  He flees and he too, a good-natured, innocent young boy, is also tracked down and killed.  The assassin struggles with her kill for some time in expected silence.


These are just a few of my Tuluki stories so I have to disagree that Tuluk is this prosperous care bear land if you're playing it right.  But that does require people to get in there and play it right and take chances.

[Marauder Moe]

That post is not appropriate for this thread.  Mods, please remove it...




...and put it somewhere prominent so everyone can freaking read it.  Especially potential new players.

Wonderful stuff.  This is what can recruit new players.  And, finally, the story behind my favorite Armageddon art!

[Heade]

Yeah, this is the Tuluk I remember.

[Lutagar]

i don't want to be that guy but

-disrespecting the powers that be
-stealing from merchant houses
-being a magicker in places where you're not allowed to be a magicker (and even in some places you're allowed to be)being a foreign walking magickal cataclysm

these aren't tuluk exclusive things and would get you killed no matter where you are in Zalanthas

there isn't any reason any of those characters couldn't have done everything they did in any other city, if you have to be suicidally careless to be oppressed then you're not actually oppressed

[Heade]

i don't want to be that guy but

-disrespecting the powers that be
-stealing from merchant houses
-being a magicker in places where you're not allowed to be a magicker (and even in some places you're allowed to be)being a foreign walking magickal cataclysm

these aren't tuluk exclusive things and would get you killed no matter where you are in Zalanthas

there isn't any reason any of those characters couldn't have done everything they did in any other city, if you have to be suicidally careless to be oppressed then you're not actually oppressed

That's not the issue. It's that, quite often, a character's life and death would be more memorable than characters in the South. It's about compelling roleplay, memorable experiences, and satisfying deaths. Those, particularly the last part, are far more rare in Nak. At least, that's my opinion.

[Bebop]

i don't want to be that guy but

-disrespecting the powers that be
-stealing from merchant houses
-being a magicker in places where you're not allowed to be a magicker (and even in some places you're allowed to be)being a foreign walking magickal cataclysm

these aren't tuluk exclusive things and would get you killed no matter where you are in Zalanthas

there isn't any reason any of those characters couldn't have done everything they did in any other city, if you have to be suicidally careless to be oppressed then you're not actually oppressed

Um, my characters weren't suicidally careless and I would love to see how a Driamusek role play could be done in Allanak since they don't exist there.    Driamusek are Tuluk exclusive, shadow artists are Tuluk exclusive, bards are Tuluk exclusive, getting disappeared is Tuluki exclusive.  Tuluki culture was heavy in all of these circumstances I displayed here and just for the record.... you are being that guy.  You're over generalizing plots that were very deep and characters that were very nuanced that I've only scratched the surface to summarize quickly here.

[Lutagar]

i don't understand the point you're trying to make, does the existence of bards and shadow artists somehow make your character more oppressed than they would have been allanak or luirs?

sure, if you were stepping on the toes of powerful people (this required active effort) then you get oppressed, but if you were playing a character with more self preservation than a lemming then you just didn't and got the EZ troublefree life by Zalanthas standards

[number13]

Driamusek are Tuluk exclusive,

Atrium.

shadow artists are Tuluk exclusive,

There's nothing stopping Templars from having pet sneakies. In fact, it's kind of the norm for a sneaky character to have a templar patron in Allanak.  The shadow artist thing in Tuluk rarely worked out the way it should have. You can do the same thing, I argue better, by playing an aide to a noble or templar with sneaky skills in Allanak.

bards are Tuluk exclusive

Maybe there's no bardic tradition in Allanak, but there's nothing stopping anyone from playing a bard.

getting disappeared is Tuluki exclusive.

You can get disappeared in Allanak, though without the cultural taboo against mentioning disappeared people. But, honestly, that was one of the worst parts of playing Tuluk -- it was often impossible to know the story, because no one would talk about it.

[Veselka]

Regardless, closing Tuluk in the fashion that it was basically was a middle-finger to the years of stories and PCs involved since the Rebellion took place. Of course it makes people butt hurt.

[Harmless]

Frequently my ideas are too hard core for the masses.  Alas. 

None of you are invited to my birthday party!

I liked all those ideas.

[Bebop]

Stuff

Y'all are really too much. 

First roughneck says he never saw Tuluk as gritty.  Which is fair but based only on his experience.  So I'm like let me pull back the veil.  Here's where thrice shit got real in Tuluk.

And someone else comes in taking my experiences that actually happened and just saying well ... Well those could've happened in Nak and maybe even better. But they didn't.  And I could elaborate about why that would be unlikely but I'm not going to because some of y'all are so dead set on being contrarions it's like arguing with Evangelical Christians.

I post some fun memories, tipping my hat to Tuluk's realness and then you take those experiences and just decided some pie in the sky alternative could've happened in Allanak and it would've been better.  Like, you're missing the point of my post completely.

I was responding to the idea that Tuluk wasn't gritty.  My point was to show it was gritty when played well and I think I did that.  I don't have time for all of the hypothetical situations you guys want to dream up to try to diminish my point and the cool shit I've experienced in game.  I was making my point.  We're not even having the same conversation.  My point was not could this happen to some degree in Nak?  My point was cool shit actually happened in Tuluk with it's own Tuluki nuance.

Stop pigeonholing everything I say and get with the spirit of my post.  Thanks.

This is why posting on the GDB is so pointless.

1 - Cool shit happened in Tuluk.

2- No, it was never gritty and should've been hard to be polite instead of a bunch of sycophants.

1- Oh, it was like that.  It was gritty and a struggle to be polite when shit got real.  Here's a few of my examples that are pretty good and I look back on fondly.

2- WELL, that could have happened in Allanak, maybe even BETTER.

1 - WTF, I thought you just wanted proof of Tuluk's merits, so I'm giving you some based on real experiences.

2- Well, it all would've just been better in Allanak.  It could've happened in AlLAnAk.

1- I wasn't saying some version of it couldn't have happened in Allanak, I was trying to respond to your original point that Tuluk wasn't raw, but then when I proved it was, seems like you're just changing arguments with hypothetical instead of what actually went down.

[tapas]

Tuluk didn't always work well. I think that's obvious.

I played a legionnaire for about a year, the last couple of months he left to become independent. I can count on one finger the number of disappearances I was aware of. He was an inked assassin and thief, but nobody ever hired him. The local Lirathan came around a couple of times to smash my character's plots. I know now they were up to all sorts of cool stuff, but they never bothered to include my character.

The only thing that kept my interest during that period was the lingering Kryl war. But even that kinda fell apart when there was a staff change.

[Hauwke]

Stuff

Y'all are really too much. 

First roughneck says he never saw Tuluk as gritty.  Which is fair but based only on his experience.  So I'm like let me pull back the veil.  Here's where thrice shit got real in Tuluk.

And someone else comes in taking my experiences that actually happened and just saying well ... Well those could've happened in Nak and maybe even better. But they didn't.  And I could elaborate about why that would be unlikely but I'm not going to because some of y'all are so dead set on being contrarions it's like arguing with Evangelical Christians.

I post some fun memories, tipping my hat to Tuluk's realness and then you take those experiences and just decided some pie in the sky alternative could've happened in Allanak and it would've been better.  Like, you're missing the point of my post completely.

I was responding to the idea that Tuluk wasn't gritty.  My point was to show it was gritty when played well and I think I did that.  I don't have time for all of the hypothetical situations you guys want to dream up to try to diminish my point and the cool shit I've experienced in game.  I was making my point.  We're not even having the same conversation.  My point was not could this happen to some degree in Nak?  My point was cool shit actually happened in Tuluk with it's own Tuluki nuance.

Stop pigeonholing everything I say and get with the spirit of my post.  Thanks.

This is why posting on the GDB is so pointless.

1 - Cool shit happened in Tuluk.

2- No, it was never gritty and should've been hard to be polite instead of a bunch of sycophants.

1- Oh, it was like that.  It was gritty and a struggle to be polite when shit got real.  Here's a few of my examples that are pretty good and I look back on fondly.

2- WELL, that could have happened in Allanak, maybe even BETTER.

1 - WTF, I thought you just wanted proof of Tuluk's merits, so I'm giving you some based on real experiences.

2- Well, it all would've just been better in Allanak.  It could've happened in AlLAnAk.

1- I wasn't saying some version of it couldn't have happened in Allanak, I was trying to respond to your original point that Tuluk wasn't raw, but then when I proved it was, seems like you're just changing arguments with hypothetical instead of what actually went down.

Get off your own high horse, they said it COULD happen in Nak, not that it would happen better.

[Heade]

Everyone Relax. This isn't and shouldn't be a discussion about what's better, Nak or Tuluk.

The GAME was better with both.

[CodeMaster]

Tuluk's an interesting writing prompt.  What's going on inside?  What do the people we'd relate to as protagonists do?  Do they have trouble escaping the place they're in now?  With the Way being what it is, why haven't stories leaked out?

I wasn't a Tuluk fan after it became a city, but it's still an important part of the Armageddon story, and to me its closure has created new intrigue.

[number13]

The GAME was better with both.

The game would be better if we had the player base to support a second city, so that each city would have to deal with foreign politics, so that you get could lost across the map after the death of a character. The game would be even better than that if we had 200 players on peak,  to support a third and fourth city.

We don't.

But Tuluk itself had plot killing properties. It would be an interesting place to read about or to play in a 5-player D&D campaign. It's was a flawed setting for a 100-player narrative.

[Veselka]

 

[Heade]

The GAME was better with both.

The game would be better if we had the player base to support a second city, so that each city would have to deal with foreign politics, so that you get could lost across the map after the death of a character. The game would be even better than that if we had 200 players on peak,  to support a third and fourth city.

We don't.

But Tuluk itself had plot killing properties. It would be an interesting place to read about or to play in a 5-player D&D campaign. It's was a flawed setting for a 100-player narrative.

Ok, so get rid of the plot killing properties and give us back the sandbox that facilitates foreign politics and the ability to get lost across the map in a new character after the death of an old character. Right now, the game world feels too small to support growth, and we want growth. It's a catch-22. Don't feel like we have enough players to support a second city, so we close the second city, making it less likely to get and retain more players to support it.

[Malken]

Tuluk's an interesting writing prompt.  What's going on inside?  What do the people we'd relate to as protagonists do?  Do they have trouble escaping the place they're in now?  With the Way being what it is, why haven't stories leaked out?

I wasn't a Tuluk fan after it became a city, but it's still an important part of the Armageddon story, and to me its closure has created new intrigue.

Tuluk is not an interesting writing prompt because you are virtually allowed to go in and out of the city as you please and spend your vacation there and then come back and tell all your buddies in Allanak that you were in Tuluk for Fall break. There's nothing that prevents anyone from saying they've spent time in Tuluk, you just can't go in CODEDLY.

[boog]

You're not allowed to specify what was going on in there either, though, because staff haven't given a hard answer as to what's going on, so... Yeah. You visited. But you're not quite sure what happened, you guess?