PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It

[Lizzie]

I don't even know where the heramide bush or tree or whatever it is loads. It seems like there's a small handful of players who DO though and you've got at least one spam-harvesting that sucker like crazy.

Maybe it's time to show some restraint there. And if it's some employer of yours telling you to harvest it like crazy, then they need to show some restraint.

Yup.

[Is Friday]

Urging players to exercise restraint isn't going to work. We saw how well that worked with the economy IG. Change the code.

[Miradus]

I get frustrated with this game when I hear that. Because it's mostly true.

[Inks]

I don't think there is a problem with poisons at all. I don't even think most PK's involve them. I think there is a lot of hearsay on this thread regarding what players are 'jumping at the chance to do'. I have been PK'd, the only time I think it was twinky was when an elf kept bashing my new assassin human pc westside in front of guild npcs, running out when they eventually aggro'd, running back in and bashing me again. But I was seriously laughing, PK is great and not really as common as people say. I see it way less now than 3 years ago.

[650Booger]

I don't think there is a problem with poisons at all. I don't even think most PK's involve them. I think there is a lot of hearsay on this thread regarding what players are 'jumping at the chance to do'. I have been PK'd, the only time I think it was twinky was when an elf kept bashing my new assassin human pc westside in front of guild npcs, running out when they eventually aggro'd, running back in and bashing me again. But I was seriously laughing, PK is great and not really as common as people say. I see it way less now than 3 years ago.

I agree.  I don't see poisons being any more deadly than master sap or master backstab.

[Heade]

I'm sort of on the fence, here. It does seem like "rare" poisons like heramide are FAR more common than they were 6 years ago. I assume that the location of it was probably leaked OOC somewhere at some point.

But I also wouldn't want to see poisons dropped to some crazy low timer like 2RL hours for a number of reasons that Armaddict and Harmless pointed out. I really don't think I like the idea of poisons expiring on blades at all. And I don't want to see them nerfed, either.

If I'm correct, and the location/s of rare poisons(peraine/heramide) was leaked OOCly at some point, maybe the solution is really simple: Move the sources IG.

Maybe even make the sources non-static, similar to the nomadic tribal encampments that appear IG, where they move around from time to time and can't always be depended upon to be found in the same exact location, representing the growth, harvest, regrowth cycle in a way, in multiple areas, that sort of works to make it less easy to just know where they're at all the time, and encourage more IC exploration.

It might be a good policy for staff to simply revisit this once per RL year, changing the locations of the cycling spawn points to give explorer players something to find, and keep the poisons rare that way.

[Is Friday]

I don't see a reason to have them not fade like food or spice. Want to kill someone with heramide or peraine? Hire someone or find it yourself within a month or two of wanting to do the deed. You shouldn't have an armory of poisons in each clan for rivals that come up in the future.

[ShaLeah]

I don't see a reason to have them not fade like food or spice. Want to kill someone with heramide or peraine? Hire someone or find it yourself within a month or two of wanting to do the deed. You shouldn't have an armory of poisons in each clan for rivals that come up in the future.

One of my characters had a staff of like 8 [redacted]. No business being in there.

Use them or they dry up unless preserved in a special container is something I'd back.  Necessary? No. More realistic? I don't know enough about poisons in real life to say.  I know my grandmother had certain sedating herbs (rumored to be deadly in large quantities) for years in a glass jar with a cork.  I mean YEARS, like 10.

[Is Friday]

I think if we're in the business of telling compelling stories with danger, you have to involve people organically in the plot.

Positive things for poison decay:
1.) Poison gatherers are never "out of a job". Leaders can't stockpile it, so you always will be valued for your skills to get to X or Y dangerous location. Leaders and gangs will put more of a value on good help. That's good for the majority of the playerbase who can be employed as good help.
2.) Poison is used for important targets, not "just anyone". Which may or may not be the case currently--but you definitely can if you are a skilled or semi-experienced player who knows how to use Google/Discord private messages.

[Lizzie]

I don't see a reason to have them not fade like food or spice. Want to kill someone with heramide or peraine? Hire someone or find it yourself within a month or two of wanting to do the deed. You shouldn't have an armory of poisons in each clan for rivals that come up in the future.

One of my characters had a staff of like 8 [redacted]. No business being in there.

Use them or they dry up unless preserved in a special container is something I'd back.  Necessary? No. More realistic? I don't know enough about poisons in real life to say.  I know my grandmother had certain sedating herbs (rumored to be deadly in large quantities) for years in a glass jar with a cork.  I mean YEARS, like 10.

This, plus some things that were perfectly harmless *become* poisonous over time. Consider canned goods. If not perfectly sealed, or properly canned, you could end up with botulism.

As for decay "like food and spice does now" (to Friday) - I'm not happy with the way food and spice decay now. Playability should always trump realism, whenever the two are at odds. I like the idea that they would eventually decay, because we need money sinks, and we need to keep hoarding to a minimum. So I get that. But a Kuraci acquiring a knot of super expensive high-end spice for an important visitor to Luir's and expecting to deliver it within 48 RL hours, only to find out that the noble was assassinated or her player stored, and now you're stuck with a 4000-sid knot and no one to buy it, is not just a money sink when it decays 2 RL days after that. That's bad for business, it's frustrating for the player of the Kuraci, even if he is wealthy (and he might not be, if he's just starting out and this is his first "big" sale).

And forget trying to roleplay out actually MAKING food for a catered event. It could easily take several RL hours to do the cooking, which means you're either stuck solo-cooking with barrier up so you're not interrupted, the day of the event, or you start out a week earlier and make a few things here, a few things there, and collect the finished product in storage. Except now it rots, so by the time the event rolls around, all you have to show for your work are some rotting gaspies and 4 kalan tarts.

Not a fan. And definitely not a fan of poison decay. Most things that are poisonous, are MORE poisonous than ever with age. Not less.

[Armaddict]

Not a fan. And definitely not a fan of poison decay. Most things that are poisonous, are MORE poisonous than ever with age. Not less.

Most of these things aren't put on a surface and expected to sit there through storms, scraping of leather, fabric, and wear and tear for a decade either.

[lostinspace]

Heramide might be more common because another source was added, I don't think anyone has discussed that possibility yet.

[only_plays_tribals]

Heramide might be more common because another source was added, I don't think anyone has discussed that possibility yet.

I think if it's becoming common enough that people are noting it isn't 'rare' anymore the sources should probably be examined. It shouldn't be so incredibly abundant that decay even needs to be considered. It should be a thing that you get and pray to whatever god you worship you don't blow it (or get someone with masterful skills to apply)

[Narf]

Not a fan. And definitely not a fan of poison decay. Most things that are poisonous, are MORE poisonous than ever with age. Not less.

Things that are toxic because of the byproducts of microorganisms will tend to get moreso with time (up to a point) because said microorganisms will poop until they can poop no more, thus maximizing toxicity. Most intentionally created poisons don't work this way however.

For compounds that do not rely on living organisms to produce their toxins, more often than not they will get less toxic with time as their reactive sites interact with the air or any surrounding compounds. This isn't uniform, but it's the most frequent result.

[Lizzie]

Then they should slowly lose their toxicity, not disintegrate completely. One risk of poisoning someone already exists: did that person end up getting poisoned at all? Another risk should be "was the poison "fresh" enough to make the intended impact?"

[ShaLeah]

Not a fan. And definitely not a fan of poison decay. Most things that are poisonous, are MORE poisonous than ever with age. Not less.

Things that are toxic because of the byproducts of microorganisms will tend to get moreso with time (up to a point) because said microorganisms will poop until they can poop no more, thus maximizing toxicity. Most intentionally created poisons don't work this way however.

For compounds that do not rely on living organisms to produce their toxins, more often than not they will get less toxic with time as their reactive sites interact with the air or any surrounding compounds. This isn't uniform, but it's the most frequent result.

Not gonna lie, this fascinated and disturbed me.

In game we get poisons from two sources no? Plant and wildlife? How about the wildlife ones get more potent as time goes by and the plant based ones lose their effectiveness?
Put a cap on time, like to reach maximum potency [something like so strong you have to touch it with gloves on or you die] in 10 ic years.
Imagine [highly coveted animal poison] that's been curing for some time.  Imagine how much more profitable the poison industry would be! Imagine the "You sold me a bad batch you piece of shit!" Pkillings.

Yassssssssss.

em swoons and passes out

[number13]

It would all kinds of awesome if the most potent poisons had to be brewed and left to ferment for 1 IC year. Or even 1 RL year.

[RogueGunslinger]

Talk about trying to solve a minor issue with a slegehammer.

I like the idea of poisons wearing off in a real life week or so.

Maybe poison skill should level up for each individual poison. They cant just train with bloodburn until they have 100% success rate with the deadlier stuff.

[MeTekillot]

EDIT: I think that's a bad idea, RGS, but I do not need to be so rude in my manner of stating it. Having to twink through each individual type of poison would be a huge pain in the ass, since many of them are quite dangerous. Why do you want people to have to spend 30 minutes of their time logged in laying unconscious in their apartment to get good at applying heramide instead of just letting them learn how to apply poison and then using heramide once they get good? What about the lethal poisons? What about the pain in the ass of having to brew cures each time for poisons that will kill you if left uncured?

[RogueGunslinger]

Go ahead and let me know why it is dumb.

[lairos]

Let's not flame each other's ideas and comments.....that said, let's get back to the original topic so this thread doesn't get locked? Poisons are involved with PK's, but does not really represent the OP discussion. There are some interesting ideas here though.

[MeTekillot]

Edited my post.

[RogueGunslinger]

EDIT: I think that's a bad idea, RGS, but I do not need to be so rude in my manner of stating it. Having to twink through each individual type of poison would be a huge pain in the ass, since many of them are quite dangerous. Why do you want people to have to spend 30 minutes of their time logged in laying unconscious in their apartment to get good at applying heramide instead of just letting them learn how to apply poison and then using heramide once they get good? What about the lethal poisons? What about the pain in the ass of having to brew cures each time for poisons that will kill you if left uncured?

I just think having a cure on hand should be mandatory for an unskilled poisoner using incredibly deadly poisons. There should be some risk associated with training very powerful abilities.

[MeTekillot]

The risk with poisons is that they are very expensive to get (at least for city based characters) and you completely lose the item if you fuck up, on top of being poisoned.

[Synthesis]

The risk with poisons is that they are very expensive to get (at least for city based characters) and you completely lose the item if you fuck up, on top of being poisoned.

It is stupid easy to get to master-level poisoning using only poison types that most definitely, 100% will not kill you, as long as you fail in a safe place.

Also, the most PK-dangerous poisons don't actually present any risk of you accidentally killing yourself at all, as long as you fail in a safe place.