Climb Code

[evilcabbage]

now you're venturing into the insulting territory.

i was in the army for five years. i know what martial arts is.

the tumbling technique is something you practice.

we don't have one in arm. we have agility, climb, and endurance. agility and climb for climbing, endurance for taking hits/falls. think of endurance as your all-round ability to take and mitigate damage.

[Grapes]

And the Army makes you some sort of expert on falling? Interesting. I did say last thing, but you're baiting me... why would Zalanthans, who are tougher, smarter (though no books to read), quicker, and stronger than their earthly counterparts, follow the rules of your particular existence? We're not talking mysticism here, simply, how not to land directly on your neck.

EDIT: Not landing on your head while falling head first can be accomplised, probably quite painfully, depending on height, by , forming your arms into the rough approximation of a diamond above your head, knife-handing the ground, letting it go down your forearm, upper arm, over your back and spine. Two stories up I've never tested in real life, and I refuse to do so, because of fear of possible injury.

[Jihelu]

Are you people saying that a master of climb wouldn't be able to learn how to do a maneuver because real life?

People can master craft works of fucking art in this game but doing a tumble is where we draw the line?


Edit: I'm not saying I want tumbling, it'd be cool but whatever, I'm just wondering what the hell people are fucking arguing about. If you are arguing real life shenanigans, stop. If you are arguing it makes climbing not hard. Whatever.

People are getting into insulting each other over climbing.
Climbing.
The thing you do to get on a roof and hide from soldiers and shit.
Pls calm down.

Here is my experience with climb as a pickpocket, or something else I really don't remember OR care. It would work, a lot. Certain climbs /seemed/ to be easier than not at all in the sense I could go up and down them thirty times, and I did because I was a noob as fuck and wanted to twink, and not fall.

Certain falls, generally if you are climbing from another climbing spot it seems to do this, are super fucking dangerous, atleast in my experience but I could be wrong.

I feel like outdoor places were harder to climb in than general?
It always seemed super difficult to climb between "Above in the air" areas.

Did I ever crit fall? Yes. I did it in the 'Rinth once during pre peak and somehow didn't die, it was funny. It was a fall from an area that looked like it would have been an easy climb as well, on top of an object, but I fell and busted my ass. If I recall I was never able to climb on that certain object and I always thought it was weird.

Do I think climbing should be easier? Sort of. I don't really think climbing is necessary but if it was made a tad bit easier to compensate for how it doesn't provide 'too' much I think so. I don't think it should be to the point where I'm climbing ontop of my apartment because I'm cool and edgy and doors are for nerds but it should be easier, in my opinion.

[Grapes]

Are you people saying that a master of climb wouldn't be able to learn how to do a maneuver because real life?

People can master craft works of fucking art in this game but doing a tumble is where we draw the line?

QFT

[evilcabbage]

And the Army makes you some sort of expert on falling? Interesting. I did say last thing, but you're baiting me... why would Zalanthans, who are tougher, smarter (though no books to read), quicker, and stronger than their earthly counterparts, follow the rules of your particular existence? We're not talking mysticism here, simply, how not to land directly on your neck.

EDIT: Not landing on your head while falling head first can be accomplised, probably quite painfully, depending on height, by , forming your arms into the rough approximation of a diamond above your head, knife-handing the ground, letting it go down your forearm, upper arm, over your back and spine. Two stories up I've never tested in real life, and I refuse to do so, because of fear of possible injury.

well, there you go. like i said, endurance is your ability to mitigate pain and injury - that means you're built tougher, or you've learned techniques to reduce the amount of damage you take, represented by generally being tougher than other people if you have a high endurance, or just being able to turn at the right time.

so if you're worried about falling, prioritizing agility and endurance can be your saving grace.

the endurance stat -is- your ability to tumble. it's your ability to block punches so they don't do as much damage. it's your ability to turn your body so a sword swing that would have been fatal becomes a minor injury at best.

your defense skill is similar - defense is your ability to work with the natural confines of your body to avoid and mitigate damage. endurance is just a value that has applications for all forms of damage. defense is a combat-oriented thing.

so, you have a tumble ability. roll higher endurance.

[evilcabbage]

also, i am not baiting you. you started with 'no offense', then brought up examples of how everyone assumes martial arts is just kung fu and ninja stuff.

the army teaches you self defense courses, that are called "combatives", from level one to level four. you're taught to rappel down ropes, how to climb, and how to fall properly so you don't take as much injury when you land.

all of these are done with safety mechanisms so that - in the unlikely even you fall wrong - the injury will be mitigated somewhat.

so, yes. the army -does- teach you how to fall a certain way.

but it's something you learn.

there are limitations in this game, code-based mechanics that you simply have to make work more in your favor. is climbing too hard? climb with gear. if climbing with gear is even too hard, you have to weigh that risk on your own, and decide if it's one worth taking. a journeyman in climbing is almost -guaranteed- to fuck up a few times. even the best masters of climbing in the real world have a chance to fail.

to my knowledge, master doesn't mean you have "100" skill in climbing, it means you've reached a point where you're as good as you can get in climbing, and that's it. there's more to progress into master, but there is always risk. why do you want to take the risk away?

[Molten Heart]

What if...

Code Select Expand

Craft skills
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ladder crafting                (master)


[Hauwke]

The problem with falling, is that for every story you read/hear/see where a guy survives a 3rd floo fall with no injury, there are 50 stories of that same thing happening, with broken bones and even death.


Falling off the shield wall -should- kill you. Its described as being absolutely massive and yet fairly often I hear of guys surviving the fall.

Tripping and smacking your head is certainly possible, that is why its called a crit fail, you fucked up! And now you have to deal with having smashed your head on the wall, or tripped awkwardly and landed on your head. Its a crit fail not a regular fail.

[Delirium]

Don't make me get all moderator mom up in here folks. Be nice.

[WarriorPoet]

And this is why I avoid the gdb.

[Riev]

I think the only issue I have with "people can trip over nothing and knock themselves out" is that a lot of people are talking about how that happens to people WITH THE SKILL OF CLIMBING. Like, even if you're at Apprentice, you've got the talent and skill for climbing and balance. You aren't an acrobat, but you're close to it.

If you have the climbing skill, landing on your neck going INTO a fall room shouldn't happen. If you're CURRENTLY in a fall room and moving, then sure. You're above SOMETHING.

[evilcabbage]

you try to climb up, but then you slip off.

maybe you got a foot or two off the ground and hit your head on the wall or the ground.

[Grapes]

And this is why I avoid the gdb.

Same.

Anyway, EvilCabbage, I apologize for my previous wording. I grew up climbing trees, scaling walls, and jumping fences before I ever received any training beyond personal experience and the words of wisdom not to absorb an impact with straightened joints, and I wasn't the exception, so my anecdotal experience on the matter may differ from yours. I understand you like risk, as do I, but it's been my experience that when several people are discussing a perceived issue with a feature that there just may be a problem, especially when people who don't perceive it as a problem discuss changes they wouldn't mind seeing. I have no solution to propose.

Yes, it can happen, you could be walking along one day, trip, and split your skull open on a curb in real life, but I wouldn't argue for crit-fails of such nature in a game. With that I have nothing more to add to the discussion without repeating myself.

[evilcabbage]

well, that's just the thing.

this is not 'just' a game.

this is partly a simulation in realism, and partly an experience in a brutal world that does everything it can to kill you.

mekillots rampage.

raptors murder.

spiders... don't even get me started on spiders.


there are a plethora of horrible, terrifying, destructive creatures and beings that can end you literally in an instant.

climb code? climb code rarely oneshots -anybody-.

[Riev]

Please do not turn this into a discussion of "this doesn't affect enough people so we shouldn't talk about it". The purpose is to discuss the code used in Climb, and whether its too harsh, too easy, or what have you. Not "is it worth talking about considering other things".

[evilcabbage]

right, my argument against a modification of climb code, based on my own experience with it, is that it's not anywhere near as dangerous as people are saying it is, especially compared to the mass of destructive things that exist in the game.

[Riev]

The argument isn't that it one-shots people, so far as I can tell. It seems to be that, compared to other skills at the Journeyman Level, its one of the least reliable with the most risk. A missed backstab costs you in time, but you can mitigate that by not backstabbing 300day warriors.

Jman climb can be mitigated with tools and gear, to a point, but a failed climb of ONE ROOM, from standing, can knock you out for 20 RL minutes with no recourse.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Riev]

walk
sneak
run
climb

"The odd little man climbs east"

[Brokkr]

Feel free to roleplay tumbling out of injury's way when you fail to climb up without slipping and landing on your neck.

I've never seen a crit fail down, so one could argue that the trade-off between up and down for climb is that while it is easier to fall when going down, it may not be possible to crit fail while doing that like it is when climbing up.

[Jihelu]

I wander if fall falling has a chance of 'crit failing'. Or if running off the edge of a building makes the same climb check.

Lets say you are on top of a one story building and you have absolutely shitty climb.
Would it be safer to straight up jump off or risk trying to climb and falling on your neck?
This question intrigues me...

[Molten Heart]

.

[Riev]

Feel free to roleplay tumbling out of injury's way when you fail to climb up without slipping and landing on your neck.

I've never seen a crit fail down, so one could argue that the trade-off between up and down for climb is that while it is easier to fall when going down, it may not be possible to crit fail while doing that like it is when climbing up.

Brokkr, you my guy, but even as staff... "I've never seen" isn't really helpful, if a player thinks they have or, in fact, code does allow for it.

[Dar]

Definitely possible.

Ive walked into a room with a 3 room climb down and crit failed. So i enter the room. Crit fail. Then drop 3 rooms.

[evilcabbage]

you can definitely crit fail going down, i think, but i don't think it's possible to crit fail going "up" if you're in a climbing room and the ground is not beneath you.

feel free to verify for me