Climb Code

[Dar]

Its possible.  Although if you crit fail in mid air, by going up and go KO, you will not drop to the ground. Youll remain in the same room.

While if you crit fail by entering the room with down climb check, you drop.

[Qzzrbl]

are zalanthan humans sturdier and hardier than RL counterparts to the point of just taking a nap to sleep off damage from a pissed off silt squid the size of a small house?

or are they so fragile that bonking their head on the ground after a short fall puts them to sleep?

im confused.

[lostinspace]

The argument isn't that it one-shots people, so far as I can tell. It seems to be that, compared to other skills at the Journeyman Level, its one of the least reliable with the most risk. A missed backstab costs you in time, but you can mitigate that by not backstabbing 300day warriors.

Jman climb can be mitigated with tools and gear, to a point, but a failed climb of ONE ROOM, from standing, can knock you out for 20 RL minutes with no recourse.

I guess my counter argument is that for the sneak type characters I play, climb IS my alternative to combat. I want it to be dangerous and risky because I don't get parry or strong weapon skills.

Climb is life or death for those characters and if you want to pursue them, it should be dangerous for the pursuer, because it's definitely dangerous if I'm caught.

[evilcabbage]

the argument that zalanthan humans are stronger than their rl counterparts can be summed up in one very simple test:

pick up a normal-sized human corpse.

i know plenty of people who are fairly strong that could definitely lift a guy who's about 160 pounds and keep going.

in zalanthas, you're LUCKY if you can even get him halfway off the ground.

in some ways, sure, your humans and whatnot are a little tougher. blows that would normally concussively take down a real life human or make him braindead don't do that here.

but strength wise, i do make the argument that real humans are actually 'stronger' than their zalanthan counterparts, in the "lifting" capacity.

[Grapes]

Yes, Cabbage, and I'm at least %75 sure you were trained in utilizing the fireman's carry somewhere, which, you can lift someone much heavier than yourself and transport them a good ways. I guess the argument against being able to do realistically possible things may be that the reason Zalanthans are so much more physically evolved is because gravity is stronger? I'm still unsure how the exact ratios work out.

The game was probably coded by someone who would not know these things, or under the assumption that these things could not be potentially learned by trail and error and taught to others, or possibly the issue just never came up until now because there were more glaring issues requiring scrutiny, and maybe the difficulty of changing anything without worrying about a small error causing the RPI apocalypse.

[evilcabbage]

i'm talking just regular old picking somebody up. anyone who does any sufficient amount of workout should be able to lift, what, two to three times their body weight?

and then you take your average armageddon pc, who goes to the byn, or does manual labor all the time.

you mean to tell me they can't carry someone who's 160 pounds?

but you can lift yourself up a wall.

[Hauwke]

The fact that Half-giant weight is realistic ish says to me that whoever originally codes things knew roughly some level of science.
Before people argue about it, its because of the way scaling and volume works. Google it, its a good read.

[Veselka]

I don't think it behooves anyone to say they definitively know one way or the other. My experience with climb is that it's very basic. You either succeed, you don't succeed, or you really don't succeed. That seems to be how most skills in ArmageddonMUD work. Could it be more complex? Probably. Up to Staff how they want to spend their time making things more complex.

I also think Climbing Gear really helps ameliorate these problems. It's expensive, so it takes time to save for and purchase.

[evilcabbage]

let's say you master climb

now tack climbing gear on top of that.

the chance of you EVER failing a climb roll is so -astronomically- low that it would basically never happen.

[Grapes]

wear anakore.claw.glove on pelvis

That's not how you climb! Also, if you look back a few pages, you'll see people commenting on how less deadly it is to fall off the shield wall, which is massive, compared to exploring rooftops, which are pretty much welp, gg. I don't think there's an easy fix to that however, so I just, have no solutions other than, why the neck? Why can't it be I bump my head on the ground? Same result, but who's like, I know JUST how to break this fall in the most epic, stupid way possible? I mean, if anything needs to change it's the neck message, how often do you land on your neck even accidentally?

[evilcabbage]

trust me.

the shield wall is a FAR more dangerous fall.

[Armaddict]

why the neck?

That's the critical fail message.  If that's too much commotion as far as interpreting the game goes, I'd also be okay with changing it to 'You lose you grip completely and plummet towards the ground!'.  If that makes it all come together nicely for people.

[Grapes]

I'm just asking because what kind of, beast, allows itself to land on its neck, that includes humans. Unless you're a giraffe that probably shouldn't be a landing location.

[evilcabbage]

think of it like landing on your shoulders and neck, like you tumble back and your upper back (where your neck is) meets the ground.

presumably, that's what it means.

if you landed entirely on your neck you'd probably die instantly.

[Molten Heart]

.

[evilcabbage]

in real life?

a guy with a fourty pound assault pack, his clothes, a body vest, rifle, ammo, grenades, picking up another guy maybe wearing similar.

what i'm saying is in zalanthas the general average human (even a fairly strong one) can't even lift a -naked- corpse off the ground if he's carrying what amounts to essentially nothing.

a stone equals 2.2 pounds.

get a rough estimate of all the gear you have, then do those numbers up, tell me how much it weighs. if you do the numbers, you'll find out pretty fast that most of your equipment really doesn't weigh that much.

[Hauwke]

Is that 2.2 pounds actually true? Because if it is that answers a long standing question I have had.

Also, it makes a stone equal to a kilo which is neat.

[Armaddict]

I'm just asking because what kind of, beast, allows itself to land on its neck, that includes humans. Unless you're a giraffe that probably shouldn't be a landing location.

I think what you're saying is that all that damage comes from damage being delivered to the neck location.  That would be interesting.

But I've never thought that that was the case.  I think that's just 'the message' of a critical failure, and a message that's been there for a very long time.  I'm guessing it's a message from a more hack'n slashy time of the game, because it's been there since before I played...so again, I'm fine with the message being changed.  But I don't think that's the determining factor for the damage suffered.

I can totally be wrong on that, that was just always my impression.

[evilcabbage]

Is that 2.2 pounds actually true? Because if it is that answers a long standing question I have had.

Also, it makes a stone equal to a kilo which is neat.

as far as i know, a stone is a kilo.

some google says one stone is 14 pounds.

i mean ZALANTHAN stones are kilos. because if you weighed ONE tenstone you'd be 140 pounds.

which means your human, at 9 tenstone, is almost 1400 pounds. 1260, to be exact.

so.

[evilcabbage]

however, if we go by a stone is a kilo, that means a tenstone is ten kilos.

so 22 pounds.

22x9 is 198 pounds.

i think that lines up quite a bit more with actual weight.

[Kryos]

This thread seems littered with inaccuracies, most of which are simply unraveled by going and do things for yourself to find out.   It is also derailed to a large extent. 

Calling Armageddon a model or simulation, with ten years experience in the relevant fields, makes me insanely nervous.  I hope to god staff don't think of it that way.  Armageddon is a game.  And the swiftest and most common way to ruin a game is to put fun behind any other objective.

Calling back to earlier in the thread:  the reason climb does not function like many other skills by glancing comparison is because you're missing just that:  the comparison.  Apprentice combat skills seem quite sufficient when you're up against another apprentice, or potentially enough against a journeyman.  But if a master comes you, how woefully unprepared you are.  And the difficulty checks against your climb skill is something you cannot see.  And *most* of the ones that matter are very difficult, with a few lower, less important obstacles here and there.

I brought up a thread on climb once, I found it absolutely mind boggling that everyone in the game couldn't eventually get it to master level.  Sorry parkour guy, but since you learned CQC we have to revoke your ability to do this.   And you, got your MBA?  Revoked.  Nonsense.  (edit:  one of the complaints in that thread is it wouldn't be realistic)







 

[Delirium]

Armageddon is a game.  And the swiftest and most common way to ruin a game is to put fun behind any other objective.

Quoted for truth.

[lostinspace]

I brought up a thread on climb once, I found it absolutely mind boggling that everyone in the game couldn't eventually get it to master level.  Sorry parkour guy, but since you learned CQC we have to revoke your ability to do this.   And you, got your MBA?  Revoked.  Nonsense.  (edit:  one of the complaints in that thread is it wouldn't be realistic)

I'd be fine with everyone having master climb, as long as everyone also gets master pick, master crafting options, master parry, master backstab, master shield use, master ride, etc.

[Riev]

Make climb checks more granular, so some climbs don't need as much climbing, where as sheer walls require a higher check.

Make climb tools have a quality that affects your side of the check.

When you're at Apprentice and Journeyman, use climbing gloves and a rope in your escape, or don't climb the sheer walls nearby.

[chrisdcoulombe]

eats popcorn..to lazy to gif