Climb Code

[Miradus]

Fix it please.

Scrambling for purchase should not be like getting shot in the neck by an arrow.

Also, even at higher levels of climb with AI city elf agility, you still fail plenty even when carrying low weight. The criteria for success and failure is just not consistent at all.

[Riev]

I considering climbing something too risky to do unless you're certain a full fall won't kill you. So. Mostly for my half-giants.

Maybe its like crafting, where (Master) climb doesn't mean you rarely fail, it just means you make better use of climbing gear... but even with climbing spikes, gloves, and harnesses, the risk is just too great.

You just KNOW those mountains are where staff of old hid the coolest and most interesting things.

[nauta]

Fix it please.

Actually, having had experience with a lot of climbers, I like it how it is, especially with the newer changes about flee not fleeing up.  There are definitely things you gotta learn, and I still wouldn't mind the ability to (based on climb check):

Code Select Expand


> assess down
This cliff looks very steep, and the drop appears to be about three leagues.


Right now the only way to figure this out is trial and (deadly) error or word of mouth.

Scrambling for purchase should not be like getting shot in the neck by an arrow.

Easy fix: make getting shot by arrows not do so much damage!  More seriously, this is something that is a bit counterintuitive at first --- the advice I give in game is that sometimes the wall hurts more than the floor.  However, there is an interesting dynamic here: if you know the fall will /kill/ your PC, the scramble is necessary.  If you know it won't, then don't scramble.  There's a risk in it which I like, in other words.

Also, even at higher levels of climb with AI city elf agility, you still fail plenty even when carrying low weight. The criteria for success and failure is just not consistent at all.

Can't comment on this, but I've definitely had PCs who rarely failed at climbing, elves included.  Sometimes you get in a peculiar situation where you have high agi and you can only get climb up to advanced or something, but in those cases I rarely if ever failed, so it was a wash in the end.  But that's anecdotal, so I can't really comment.  (Although I did, because I can't help commenting!)

[Miradus]

Southside Naki Parkour has killed more pickpockets than His Arm.

[RogueGunslinger]

You can make it by with journeyman climb, no held weapons and a set of climbing gear. Safe places to practice are rare, because a crit fail can knock you out and leave you vulnerable. I suggest never going anywhere where you will suffer more than a 1 room drop until you are past getting failures when moving downward.

I have never scrambled for purchase on purpose and had favorable results. I have on accident though. I tend to avoid it unless i know the drop is fatal.

[Miradus]

If the scrambling wasn't almost a death sentence to attempt, then it would be a suitable counter to the law of averages of falling at high journeyman or better.

[lostinspace]

Climb is probably one of my most used skills in this game beside kick, and I think it's perfect right now.

I have scrambled successfully dozens of times to save my characters life. I've actually ran out of stamina climbing down a cliff in the desert, let go, and then scrambled 1 room from the bottom to save myself, then dropped to the ground and unrolled a tent. I like that climbing is dangerous for those without master climb, because, at least in my experience, climb is one of the best tools for shaking off a pursuer who is going to pound me into the ground if they catch me.

And if you feel like you're not doing enough, there are gloves, spikes, ropes, sticky string (I've only seen this once in clan storage) to increase your climb.

[Vex]

The scramble for safety, for me, does ludicrous amounts of damage, compared to fall damage. Scramble also has such a low chance of success, that, really, it's safer to not use it, outside of absolute death drops. It's very counter-intuitive, that trying to find a hand hold and prevent a long drop to the ground is, really, more likely to kill you, than spreading your arms and, with an smile, accepting the free fall to the rocks below.

[Hauwke]

You are also falling at break-neck speeds and need to do something about it, catching a handhold while falling a long distance is at the very least going to fuck up your hand a bit. And the worst is your arm breaking from doing it, its not exactly as safe as movies and games make it out to be.

[Vex]

No one said, let it do no damage. It should not be so harsh, that it's better not to try.

[lostinspace]

Scramble is a risk, because you've already fallen. Lots of other skills don't even give you a second chance, I see no problem with scramble being a risky move because it should be used in life or death situations.

As a little experiment I checked my logs for all instances of scrambling, they were pretty rare, and most my successes were with my characters most skilled in climbing which actually had a solid rate of success.

You can do this experiment yourself if you have logs, just use this cmd line from your logs folder to put all instances into a file, I threw the AAA at the front of the file name so it would be empty when it was searched and this command will also search all sub-files for those that organize this way.

findstr /s /i scramble *.txt > AAA_ScrambleResults.txt

You can then search that file for "but find nothing" and "and stop the fall" respectively to take a look at your successes and failures.

Cheers

[Armaddict]

Not sure if it already works this way, but 'scrambling' should take into account how far you've fallen, then reduce the fall damage at the bottom by one room.

i.e. 3 room fall, you scramble on the first room and take some damage based off falling one room before the scramble, then at the bottom you take damage as if you've fallen 2 rooms.

Or something like that.

[Dar]

You know whats really scary? Is when your very first climb is a crit fail. And then due to that fail, you also fall 3 storeys down. That here is a plot squasher .

[Patuk]

Scrambling for purchase should not be like getting shot in the neck by an arrow.

Reminds me of the time some genius HG threw a bola at me, in pitch darkness at night, no torches out or anything, while I was hanging up in the rooftops waiting for dawn to roll around. That sure was fun.

Given that we're talking about climb code anyway..

Pleaaaase make city-bound guilds get better climb if the guild revamp does ever become a thing, staff? Pretty please? I know that rangers are the golden boys of this game, but those cool rooftops are a cruel joke when those that live in the city need to fear for their lives to ever use them

[roughneck]

Anything less than master climb is pretty tough to live with if you actually want to use the skill. The Journeyman cap that the subclasses enjoy is pretty much useless in my experience.

[Brokkr]

For master to be worthwhile, levels lower than master need to be less useful.  To get to master, levels lower than master can't work flawlessly.

[Riev]

In the city, I find if you NEED to climb, you don't need to climb up the 3-5 room areas. There are other ways to stay up and out of sight.

However, on a character with advanced climb, I had palpitations just thinking about going to some areas, because a 2-room crit fail put me at negative HP once.

[Molten Heart]

.

[roughneck]

For master to be worthwhile, levels lower than master need to be less useful.  To get to master, levels lower than master can't work flawlessly.

You're not wrong, but it doesn't make journeyman any more useful.

It's like backstab. Ain't nobody going into a serious situation counting on journeyman backstab.

[manipura]

If you're the one who climbs or backstabs on your weekends off because it's a fun hobby, maybe leave the serious situations to the folks who devote the majority of their time to perfecting those sorts of skills.

And if you're a player who wants to be able to come on the scene and be the go-to guy for climbing that cliff or backstabbing that enemy (or doing whatever), maybe don't leave it to your subguild?

[Delirium]

[lostinspace]

If you're the one who climbs or backstabs on your weekends off because it's a fun hobby, maybe leave the serious situations to the folks who devote the majority of their time to perfecting those sorts of skills.

And if you're a player who wants to be able to come on the scene and be the go-to guy for climbing that cliff or backstabbing that enemy (or doing whatever), maybe don't leave it to your subguild?

Couldn't have said it better.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Jihelu]

Abilities are more than capable of being worthwhile at lower levels but it seems climb isn't one of them.
Bash becomes usable well after apprentice, disarm and the like as well.
Weapon skills are amazing at low levels as well.
Crafting skills aren't really in the same boat but you have a variety of stuff to do.

Climb has an extremely high chance to murder you with very little to gain.

[sleepyhead]

It'd be cool if there were differing degrees of difficulty in climbable terrain. For example a stone wall might have many grips and footholds/handholds that even novice climbers could negotiate. And there there might be a virtually sheer wall with minimal handholds or any traction that only a master climbers or someone with a lot of climbing gear would hope to ascend.

I really like this idea. I think this would mitigate what people are complaining about while still making sure master climb is substantially better than journeyman.