Man that sucks.

[hopeandsorrow]

Talking to a friend the other day whom is of former staff.


Obviously what will only be referred to as "the event" came up.

I think staff particularity producers need to be transparent on how negative feedback towards players is handled.  Players often get finger pointing happy with out actually knowing the process.  You guys should really share that.


As far as I know, Nergal was doing a lot of work for towards the game.  Most of which isn't obviously apparent.  But according to sources who will remain anonymous, Nergal put a whole lot of effort towards the game script wise.  Not to mention the whole Guild Revamp.

While I can't defend what he said, I know where all human.  What sucks more is losing a dedicated staffer working to actually grow the game.  So I hope some you all are happy with yourselves.

Also staff leadership, don't put talented staffer in the punching bag position.  It high time you make the STs deal with their problem players, this system where you make one staffer a disciplinarian, keeps blowing up in your face.

Also Nergal, I love you.

[Patuk]

Are you going to make a thread like this every time a player quits, too?

[Chettaman]

I just took a placement test for some college and I just wanted to say,
"Man that sucks." is an innapropriate title for this thread. ... I think.

Might I suggest, "Man, that sucks." or "Man. that sucks."

end derail.

[hopeandsorrow]

Are you going to make a thread like this every time a player quits, too?

Nah.

[Pretentious]

I'm confused. Did we lose a staffer?

[Riev]

I'm confused. Did we lose a staffer?

Its not anything to worry on. Just someone that needs to cool their heels a bit after some things were said.

[Adhira]

Nergal is taking time away from the game. He had a break scheduled. Recent events have caused him take that break now, rather than at the end of the week as planned. We hope that he will be returning to us. In the meantime Nathvaan is changing his role from Administrator to Producer.

[sleepyhead]

While I can't defend what he said, I know where all human.  What sucks more is losing a dedicated staffer working to actually grow the game.  So I hope some you all are happy with yourselves.

Well, considering what happened, this staff member was long overdue for taking a break from the game. If I helped nudge him into it by voicing my concerns and putting in a complaint as is the prescribed avenue for such things, I don't feel particularly ashamed of that, because his resulting decision is probably best for everyone. There's not much more to be said that wouldn't be inappropriate here, but I think if you get to the point where such small things cause you to fly off the handle, you definitely need to give yourself some breathing room.

And I don't think anyone who pointed out how inappropriate the exchange was should be made to feel guilty for noticing just how inappropriate it was. Yes, Nergal's human and I'm sure we can all relate to how he felt in that moment if we allow ourselves to, but I don't feel bad about at least attempting to hold Producers in particular to a higher standard than Random GDB Poster #2938.

That's about all I have to say.

[BadSkeelz]

While I can't defend what he said, I know where all human.  What sucks more is losing a dedicated staffer working to actually grow the game.  So I hope some you all are happy with yourselves.

Also staff leadership, don't put talented staffer in the punching bag position.  It high time you make the STs deal with their problem players, this system where you make one staffer a disciplinarian, keeps blowing up in your face.

Also Nergal, I love you.

Hopefully he'll lighten up some after his (long overdue) break.

[Riev]

While I can't defend what he said, I know where all human.  What sucks more is losing a dedicated staffer working to actually grow the game.  So I hope some you all are happy with yourselves.

Well, considering what happened, this staff member was long overdue for taking a break from the game. If I helped nudge him into it by voicing my concerns and putting in a complaint as is the prescribed avenue for such things, I don't feel particularly ashamed of that, because his resulting decision is probably best for everyone. There's not much more to be said that wouldn't be inappropriate here, but I think if you get to the point where such small things cause you to fly off the handle, you definitely need to give yourself some breathing room.

And I don't think anyone who pointed out how inappropriate the exchange was should be made to feel guilty for noticing just how inappropriate it was. Yes, Nergal's human and I'm sure we can all relate to how he felt in that moment if we allow ourselves to, but I don't feel bad about at least attempting to hold Producers in particular to a higher standard than Random GDB Poster #2938.

That's about all I have to say.

I felt bad for half a moment, because he had quoted my response about throwing weight around. Then I got angry. Then Adhira above mentioned he was planning on taking a break from things anyways.

Nothing about my comment was "you suck" or "You're doing it wrong". It was "Hey, man. Be careful, here. You're starting to tread on dangerous ground and its leaving a bad taste". So. I'm happy with myself. I tried to keep things on track and civil.

It was like a Player Announcement saying "I'm leaving you all suck" but it was from a staffer. We all need breaks, and sometimes a big explosion pre-empts that.

[Tisiphone]

Nergal is taking time away from the game. He had a break scheduled. Recent events have caused him take that break now, rather than at the end of the week as planned. We hope that he will be returning to us. In the meantime Nathvaan is changing his role from Administrator to Producer.

Given that that's the case, is the 'necker' decision still final? I'll freely say that I personally disagree with it and I'm hoping you'll say no, but I'm only asking because this implies that maybe this was a regrettable accident rather than something staff intend to stand firm. I'll obey either way. (And I'm really not trying to wheedle for a preferred decision here, just to clear up. So sorry if this comes off as the former instead of the latter.)

Assuming the ban on 'necker' is still intended, can I ask that someone throw it in the MotD? I for one don't check the GDB that often, and only found out about the whole discussion by accident. I wouldn't want anyone who was simply ignorant of a policy decision to run afoul of said decision.

[sleepyhead]

I'm in the anti-censorship camp when it comes to "necker," but I'm even more concerned that we're going to start micromanaging insults like "dick" and it would be nice to get some clarification about that.

As a female player I do not feel empowered or protected in any way by a ban on "gendered" insults. I just feel limited and stifled.

[Melkor]

I never really weighed in on the gender-related insults, though I am sure my position is known, I would like to defend the insults themselves.

1) Insults referencing genitalia. Dick, Pussy, etc.

Sexism does not exist in Zalanthas. The sexes are equal. This does not mean that male and female genitalia have the same function. The simple fact that a dick fucks things and a pussy gets fucked denotes certain characteristics and attributes (Dominant/Submissive. Active/passive. etc.) which can be referenced by calling someone a dick, or a pussy.
This rational destroys the narrative that these insults do not fit in the game.

2)Bitch.
Ever walked by a bitch guarding her pups? They are mean as fuck. To call a woman a bitch refers to this characteristic.
Or, regarding function, again: a bitch gets bred, not the other way around. To call a man a bitch is extremely insulting, as it suggests he is submissive, subservient.


Now that I am thinking about it, the sole fact that - despite 100% gender equality in Zalanthas - Men and Women still take different roles in reproduction means that discrimination based on gender is not only unavoidable, but reasonable.

The insults are legitimate, and relevant, even in Zalanthas. Because of this, I believe that the press for "safe" insults is based solely on catering to "trigger-warning" culture. If you all remember the thread about censorship and moderating in online gaming communities from a month or two back... I would wager that that video had a big part in influencing this push.


Eh... I just hope I wont have to censor myself in a fantasy game, lest big-brother do the censoring for me, or take punitive measures against me for my choice of words.

[Kankfly]

Nergal is taking time away from the game. He had a break scheduled. Recent events have caused him take that break now, rather than at the end of the week as planned. We hope that he will be returning to us. In the meantime Nathvaan is changing his role from Administrator to Producer.

Given that that's the case, is the 'necker' decision still final? I'll freely say that I personally disagree with it and I'm hoping you'll say no, but I'm only asking because this implies that maybe this was a regrettable accident rather than something staff intend to stand firm. I'll obey either way. (And I'm really not trying to wheedle for a preferred decision here, just to clear up. So sorry if this comes off as the former instead of the latter.)

Assuming the ban on 'necker' is still intended, can I ask that someone throw it in the MotD? I for one don't check the GDB that often, and only found out about the whole discussion by accident. I wouldn't want anyone who was simply ignorant of a policy decision to run afoul of said decision.

I wonder about this too. Is this a final decision? I've never connected 'necker' with any other word until that thread came up.

[Synthesis]

I'm gonna keep fucking calling neckers neckers, and if y'all have a problem with it...good.

It's supposed to be offensive, so mission fucking accomplished.

[Melkor]

I'm gonna keep fucking calling neckers neckers, and if y'all have a problem with it...good.

It's supposed to be offensive, so mission fucking accomplished.

[Marc]

I wonder about this too. Is this a final decision? I've never connected 'necker' with any other word until that thread came up.

This.  A thousand times, this.

If we change how we play, the terrorists win.

#ignoranceisbliss

[frankjacoby]

[FantasyWriter]

I wonder about this too. Is this a final decision? I've never connected 'necker' with any other word until that thread came up.

In our culture, some people literally make a living (and good ones at that) out of getting offended and getting proxy-offended for others.
There are parts of our society who, also quite literally, go around and look for things to offend them.  It is no shock that this has bled into the playerbase.

'Necker' is phonetically closer to 'cracker' than it it is the other word.  I do not mean to hurt the "offended" players feelings, but this is a silly thing.  If, however, the PLAYER whom they complained against was against (if there was a specific incident involved) was some how using 'Necker' as  the other word, then I am sure staff did/would have corrected that player with an appropriately sized wrist-slap and told them not to do it again if they wished to continue playing the game.


I agree with Meklor's opinions on sexual organ slang/insults.
Calling someone a dick for screwing something up/over are always trying to stick your 'nose' in everyone's business... Makes sense without sexism being involved.
Calling someone a cunt because they let people run over them/take advantage of them/screw them over.  Makes sense without sexism.
Calling someone who is overly agressive or complains/growls(bitches) a lot a bitch... fits without sexism.

I do disagree that calling a man a bitch/cunt is any more demeaning than doing the same for a woman.  That IS sexism.

[nauta]

Idioms/insults that make no sense in Zalanthas:

Not all idiom/swears that include terms denoting genitalia are anachronistic.  Some are.  Censorship is one thing.  Using phrases that don't fit the setting is another.  Here are some phrases that if your character uttered them, other characters would think they were an idiot or from another planet:

Examples:

'You little pussy.'  Meaning: You are weak.  Why would a normal Zalanthan think you are an idiot for saying this?  Because in the real world, we are sexist and think of women (things with pussies) as weak.  In Zalanthas things with pussies are equally strong.

'Grow some balls.' Meaning: Get stronger.  Why would a normal Zalanthan think you were an idiot for saying this?  Because in the real world, we are sexist and think that things without balls are weak.  In Zalanthas, things with and without balls are equally strong.

'Cocksucker.' Meaning: You are someone who enjoys sucking penises, usually said to a male, usually to imply they are gay, which further implies they are abnormal and/or weak.  Why would a normal Zalanthan think you were an idiot for saying this? Because in the real world, we are homophobic and think of gay people (and/or women) who suck cock as weak.

[valeria]

'Cocksucker.' Meaning: You are someone who enjoys sucking penises, usually said to a male, usually to imply they are gay, which further implies they are abnormal and/or weak.  Why would a normal Zalanthan think you were an idiot for saying this? Because in the real world, we are homophobic and think of gay people (and/or women) who suck cock as weak.

I previously used this more or less interchangeably with 'cuntliker' in my tenure here, meaning: one who gives oral sex in a world setting where that would be pretty disgusting.  But I've since phased it out because I didn't like the connotations you have mentioned.

[azuriolinist]

I wasn't bothered by the use of the words for those particular genitalia, but I really can't get behind Melkor's points in support of their use. Let me get this out there: I'm probably biased, tbh. Melkor's post just reinforces the idea behind the removal of the words, in my point of view.

Intercourse, breeding, sex, whatever, is usually (all the emphasizes on this word) this two-way process where the the partners are both "fucking" one another.

Sure, in the real world, females may be more submissive than men. ICly, though, there would be little difference. So I can't get behind the stand on the word "bitch", where a man being called that way would be insulting because it suggests him being submissive. That should be a RL thing, not IC, because frankly, like FantasyWriter said, it's sexist.

I'm probably nitpicking over wording, but I was pretty bothered over it. I can get behind looking at the entire thing in an anatomical viewpoint when/if they're introduced back to the game. Dicks stick into pussies and all that. But the reasonings seem to be soaked in hefty dosage of RL biases.

[whitt]

Here are some phrases that if your character uttered them, other characters players bleeding modern day thought into the game would think they were an idiot or from another planet:

Fixed that for you.

Examples:

'You little pussy.'  Meaning: You are weak only good for your breeding parts.

Women in Zalanthas are still the only ones that can bare children suggesting someone wasn't strong enough to valuable for more than that is  still viable, if entirely misunderstanding the rigors of childbirth.  You womb?  Just doesn't just have the ring to it.

'Grow some balls.' Meaning: Get stronger Be a useful.

Again, only men in Zalanthas can impregnate a woman.  A man without balls can't.  They are, quite literally, a useless fuck.

'Cocksucker.' Meaning: You are someone who enjoys sucking penises, usually said to a male,

Not in Zalanthas.

usually to imply they are gay,

Not in Zalanthas.

which further implies they are abnormal and/or weak.

Not in Zalantas.

Why would a normal Zalanthan think you were  an idiot be perfectly fine with you for saying this?

Because Zalanthans are not neat, tidy, clean people.  Stuffing someone's hot, sweaty, smelly phallus into your mouth and sucking on it like a sugar candy is generally gross?  Bootlicker, Asskisser, Brownnoser all similar, but weaker versions of the same premise, but weaker insults as you aren't just touching the tip, you're wrapping yourself around it.

In short, I'll leave this quote, attributed to Betty White, but apparently Snopes says it's from elsewhere which is a shame, because I can totally hear it in her voice.

Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!

[Jihelu]

My new favored insult is "I bet you eat ass"

[FantasyWriter]

'You little pussy.'  Meaning: You are weak.  Why would a normal Zalanthan think you are an idiot for saying this?.

Ever fought a quirri?
Seriously, though, I agree with your list as well.