Derail about why PK is bad

[Jingo]

Make a challenging PC.  That's what got me back into it

The trick is to find something that is hard, but not codedly frustrating.  Try a really, really dangerous concept, and only play semi-carefully.  Keep shit *on the edge*.

As long as you're fine with getting backroom ganked at someone's first opportunity; only to be left wondering why you even fucking bothered in the first place.

[Feco]

Make a challenging PC.  That's what got me back into it

The trick is to find something that is hard, but not codedly frustrating.  Try a really, really dangerous concept, and only play semi-carefully.  Keep shit *on the edge*.

As long as you're fine with getting backroom ganked at someone's first opportunity; only to be left wondering why you even fucking bothered in the first place.

Ya'll worry too much. Dying is fun!

Die often and gruesomely.  Long lived characters are overrated.

[Jingo]

Fuck no it isn't. Getting your shit pushed in for someone else's power fantasy is pointless and demoralizing.

[whitt]

Fuck no it isn't. Getting your shit pushed in for someone else's power fantasy is pointless and demoralizing.

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Monday's. 

[Jingo]

Welp. Getting pissed on over and over will do that to you.

I've been fucked so hard and so many times for simply trying to play a character just mildly against the grain that I can't help but be bitter.

[lostinspace]

Die often and gruesomely.  Long lived characters are overrated.

I think a big tipping point for my enjoyment of the game was when I started keeping characters alive past 10 days. I get bored and don't want to store them because I've invested 10 days, but it's also against my instincts developed over character deaths to go out and do something potentially suicidal. Dying does suck, but better to go out in a flash than store

[Jingo]

Die often and gruesomely.  Long lived characters are overrated.

I think a big tipping point for my enjoyment of the game was when I started keeping characters alive past 10 days. I get bored and don't want to store them because I've invested 10 days, but it's also against my instincts developed over character deaths to go out and do something potentially suicidal. Dying does suck, but better to go out in a flash than store

No we're talking about the way players are always happy to fuck over players that actually try to allow some weakness and risk into their play..

[chrisdcoulombe]

Yeah, I have been walked into spider holes by clan leaders even though I knew better my character didn't .   Have let my  character be tricked even though I know better.   Some things get you killed by other players.  Some other players characters are elves, thieves thugs.   One of my favorite roles is a c-elf dirt bag.  Creating and overcoming adversity is what makes Armageddon great.   My advice Play an elf from the rinth, elf to your fullest and don't expect to live long. 

[Akaramu]

Being long-lived is absolutely not overrated. You get access to more plots and secrets, get more stuff done, and enjoy a lot of other side benefits as well. Besides... who wants to do the skill grind over and over again?

The 10-15 days played mark is usually where I start to enjoy a role the most.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Playing a redshirt can be fun and living a long time can be fun as well.   

[Riev]

Die often and gruesomely.  Long lived characters are overrated.

I think a big tipping point for my enjoyment of the game was when I started keeping characters alive past 10 days. I get bored and don't want to store them because I've invested 10 days, but it's also against my instincts developed over character deaths to go out and do something potentially suicidal. Dying does suck, but better to go out in a flash than store

No we're talking about the way players are always happy to fuck over players that actually try to allow some weakness and risk into their play..

While it doesn't happen to me (#whitepriviledge) I will say that I've seen it happen where as soon as a character with a noticeable or exploitable flaw is around, people almost CLAMOR to attach and attack.

I've known a couple players whose characters are purposefully flawed, but they don't last long because people fight to exert power. Is it Zalanthan? Of course it is, get a leg up however you can. But from a gameplay perspective, it is demoralizing and turns everyone into no-emote planks of wood because if they ever take a risk someone will fuck them for it.

[Feco]

Oh, I just meant be someone everyone hates, or someone who puts themselves into dangerous situations, or someone who has a job that it can be a struggle to make a living with.

Paranoia of people, monsters, or the risk of not having food or water is what makes the game fun for me.

[Jingo]

Oh, I just meant be someone everyone hates, or someone who puts themselves into dangerous situations, or someone who has a job that it can be a struggle to make a living with.

That's what I'm talking about too.

[Feco]

I guess I just like getting fucked with, so I fuck with people back.  Sorry if that isn't fun for you guys.

If it helps I try not to be a no emote plank of wood.

[Jingo]

I guess I just like getting fucked with, so I fuck with people back.  Sorry if that isn't fun for you guys.

If it helps I try not to be a no emote plank of wood.

I love getting fucked with. I fucking hate losing my character while watching personality less planks of wood live forever.

Because there really is never any "fucked with". There's only killed ez.

[Delirium]

Jingo is mad again. Jingo needs to come play with me, I'll make him miserable and he'll love it.

[Feco]

Something that helps me is to imagine that there are lots of plots and motivations going into a PC's actions.  You just don't get to see their personality, oftentimes because of the unforgiving, quick, and difficult to control combat and crime code.

Whether or not that's true is another story, but it's what I tell myself.

[Jingo]

Something that helps me is to imagine that there are lots of plots and motivations going into a PC's actions.  You just don't get to see their personality, oftentimes because of the unforgiving, quick, and difficult to control combat and crime code.

Whether or not that's true is another story, but it's what I tell myself.

I like to pretend that most plot motivations are "XXX is mildly inconveniencing me. Guess we better kill them." Whether it's true or not, it really doesn't matter. They can't expend the mental effort needed consider anything but an extreme reaction.

Jingo is mad again. Jingo needs to come play with me, I'll make him miserable and he'll love it.

I never really stopped being mad.

[manipura]

We all get it Jingo.  It's old.
You play better than the vast majority of other players because you play your PCs faults and flaws superbly while everyone else is just playing to win.
You getting fucked over is never really a result of an in-game occurrence, it's simply you getting fucked over because someone else HAS TO WIN.
I thought I was a bitter vet but I -rue- the day I'm as bitter as you.

[Feco]

hey guyz its okay all friends 

[Jingo]

We all get it Jingo.  It's old.
You play better than the vast majority of other players because you play your PCs faults and flaws superbly while everyone else is just playing to win.

Not a claim I've made.

while You getting fucked over is never really a result of an in-game occurrence, it's simply you getting fucked over because someone else HAS TO WIN.

If that "in-game occurrence" is weak bullshit I'd never, ever pull on anyone myself; then yeah. I think it's an accurate assessment.

[Nergal]

Moderated a post that was an unnecessary attack.

If you feel like someone is eschewing RP to play to win, that breaks the required RP rule. Put in a player complaint about them.

For now, try to stay on topic.

[Armaddict]

If you feel like someone is eschewing RP to play to win, that breaks the required RP rule. Put in a player complaint about them.

My take on this from Jingo's posts is that he generally feels like he's supposed to be mostly safe from other players because he's playing his.  I think the above statement has some misconceptions around it that playing a driven, ruthless character means that the player themself thinks they can win the game.

I think that undermines the setting of the game far more than a character who inflicts paranoia about death ever does.  Once upon a time, there was not a virtual swarm of approvals and checkups and demands for information around every character-on-character conflict that ended in death.  Once upon a time, 'It was purely opportunity.  I wanted his gloves and coins.' was not an indicator of 'playing to win', it was actually fitting into the setting of 'No one gives a shit about anyone but themselves.'  My personal feeling is that this has gone away based off of ooc assumptions of how the character's -player- thought of the game rather than where the character fit into the world, mostly driven by that stomach-curdling feeling of character death or the frustration of having key elements of other people's stories removed.  I don't think staff is free of this same frustration, when they're trying to line things up and find out that this -one- overheard conversation over here just derailed the entire thing and made an enemy they hadn't anticipated.

Jingo, I applaud you for playing characters with weaknesses.  But I think you're cutting a lot of people short in doing the same thing (most players build weaknesses of some sort into their characters, and promptly make it a driving part of their character).  And I think the expectation that weaknesses won't be exploited by enemies, known and unknown, is the downfall of your enjoyment, rather than the reason your characters should be entitled to live longer because they have weaknesses.  If I had a fit whenever someone killed me for playing my character or doing their job, there's no way I could enjoy anything in this game.

Play the game, but also play the setting.  Cuddle puddles and insistence on mutual agreement to not end each other makes every conflict-based interaction in the game, on the average, shallow (there are exceptions).  It can be played out for a long time.  It can also be ended quickly.  There is no requirement, anywhere, for either approach to dominate, and asserting that players are obligated to leave you alone because you play well, or that every action taken against you has been this thing that makes them a terrible player, is a more destructive attitude to project onto the game than a player who has a different idea of how to overcome conflict against their character than you.

[Tisiphone]

I think that undermines the setting of the game far more than a character who inflicts paranoia about death ever does.  Once upon a time, there was not a virtual swarm of approvals and checkups and demands for information around every character-on-character conflict that ended in death.  Once upon a time, 'It was purely opportunity.  I wanted his gloves and coins.' was not an indicator of 'playing to win', it was actually fitting into the setting of 'No one gives a shit about anyone but themselves.' 

I miss the days when killing someone for his boots was something said on the GDB only half in jest, because those chalton boots were worth ~100 'sid and that's a perfectly good reason to murder somebody.

[Feco]

Killing people for their boots is still a thing.