Release Note discussion!

[mansa]

Fredd:

Protector has master shield use.
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Protector

[Namino]

My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

[seidhr]

My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

On the contrary, you are quite accurate.

[Mercy]

My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

On the contrary, you are quite accurate.

I am confused by this.

If a guild caps out at 50 shield use, but the cap for shield use in the game is 90, wouldn't 50 NOT show as master when you achieve 50 shield use? It'll just stop increasing in skill level name. Journeyman or whatever it is.

If one person's shield use has decreased, wouldn't that mean shield use has been given a new cap (e.g. 90 to 95) during this change. Not that another guild also has been given the cap of 90? Just because master hasn't gone down for some, it doesn't mean they still are at the total cap across the game, just close enough to still show as master? Or can that not be clarified? I'm assuming master doesn't happen at 90/90, but within a range of 90 so there's still room for improvement even though you are the best of the best, skill-wise.

[Hauwke]

If the max is 90, master would show up at I assume somewhere around 80.

[Synthesis]

Apprentice is about 20% of global maximum

Journeyman is about 40%

Advanced is about 60%

Master is about 80%

You can be "master" and still kinda suck.  E.g. shield use and parry seem to be capped hella low even for warriors (even though they presumably hold the global maxima...because you can master them in a hot minute compared to everything else), and some guilds are capped -exactly- at the master point.  E.g. "master" hide for a pickpocket is substantially less useful than "master" hide for a burglar.

If the global shield use cap is at like...50%, then subguild protector could have a cap anywhere from 40% to 50% and still be "master."  If the global cap for a particular skill is 100%, you could be 20 points off the maximum and still be a "master," but obviously 20 points difference is a yuuuuuge chaaaaaasm of playability for some skills, especially skills like "steal," where failure = instant, permanent PC aggro.

[Vex]

Does this mean, the potential for some guilds has gone up?

Or, should we anticipate karma-required guilds, that are more powerful than normal ones?

[Synthesis]

Does this mean, the potential for some guilds has gone up?

Or, should we anticipate karma-required guilds, that are more powerful than normal ones?

The potential for some skills for some of the new hybrid-system guilds is higher than the current highest points for existing guilds.

I've never read anything about Staff making any of these mundane hybrid-system guilds karma-required.

My guess is that they're slightly beefing the weapon skill caps and/or parry/shield use caps on whatever the Tanky McTankface class is going to be, but...that's just a guess.  (Weapon skills are already highly compressed, so it would make sense to spread them out a bit to the upside in order to provide real value for the specialists without nerfing non-specialists and having to re-balance every damn mob in the game to account for it.  Currently, there isn't a whole lot of difference between a max warrior and a max ranger in terms of raw melee PVE DPS.)

P.S. Staff this is also a suggestion if that's not what is already happening. 

[Brokkr]

My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

Mostly right.  If only you didn't use the word "ALWAYS" you would have been good.  When visible skill levels were implemented, it was April Fools day, and who knows what those skill levels are based on!

But the week after April Fools day when they did them for real, they were all based off the same cap for all skills.  This was confusing, because a guild that was the absolute best at a skill might not see a skill level of 'master', which didn't make a lot of sense.  So it was changed after four or five days to be based off the highest skill level any guild obtained, becoming a relative measure to all other PCs, rather than an absolute measure on a 100 scale.

As for the questions, sounds like we need an AMA on the new classes!

[RogueGunslinger]

Am I right in assuming this means skill NAME progression is slower? Like, getting from Journeyman to Advanced should take longer now, right?

[Riev]

Am I right in assuming this means skill NAME progression is slower? Like, getting from Journeyman to Advanced should take longer now, right?

For some skills, probably. Wheres before, "skinning" might've been Advanced at 60/100, now it is "advanced" at 75/100. So you'd have to get 15 more points or skillups or whatever before you see the new nomenclature.

[Veselka]

Are all the Class/Skill Names definite or just working names for now?

[Miggy]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking... but it seems like with all those different 'classes' now available, there should be lots of new skills added to the mix. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

[Grapes]

"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

[TheGoose]

"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Kinda ominous, yeah? Kinda like going to yr pool and seeing a new sign reading 'tiny sharks expanded.'

...There were sharks? Tiny ones? Does this mean they're gone now? Or are there more of them? Or are they bigger now?

[chrisdcoulombe]

Describe relative positions of ovals originating from a real algebraic curve and as limit cycles of a polynomial vector field on the plane.  Then you will have your answer.

[Fredd]

"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Kinda ominous, yeah? Kinda like going to yr pool and seeing a new sign reading 'tiny sharks expanded.'

...There were sharks? Tiny ones? Does this mean they're gone now? Or are there more of them? Or are they bigger now?

I also feel like that line could use expanding. Does that change combat in any way? Are Jozhals now the deadliest beasts in the land?

[Is Friday]

Finally, my PCs can get nipple tattoos.

[Lizzie]

Describe relative positions of ovals originating from a real algebraic curve and as limit cycles of a polynomial vector field on the plane.  Then you will have your answer.

42

I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of new options we have for character creation!

[Grapes]

Finally, my PCs can get nipple tattoos.

My thoughts precisely.

[Nathvaan]

"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Typically when we list something as a bugfix it is, indeed, fixing a bug.  In this case it is something that looked to be miscalculating related to the guild revamp project so there shouldn't be any noticeable difference other than things are 'working as normal'.

[Kankfly]

-added new location descriptions (tattoo/scar/etc...) for
  nipples
  eyebrows
  navel
  pelvis
  tongue
  lips

Does this include right ear and left ear?

[Molten Heart]

.

[Armaddict]

I'd be okay with no-hands riding going away with few exceptions, but I know there would be those players who just only played those exceptions from then on with the insistence that it was the only state of viability.

However, yes, there were warnings put up with all this that there could be effects on skills while they were setting things up.  If it's permanent, I'd rather the rules be switched.  Riding with a shield is historically significant because of its feasibility and usefulness in mounted combat.  Riding with a bow is historically significant.  Riding as a mounted dual wielding berserker is not...so if we're gonna make it impossible for one style, lets at least make it the one that makes sense.

[Hauwke]

I'd be okay with no-hands riding going away with few exceptions, but I know there would be those players who just only played those exceptions from then on with the insistence that it was the only state of viability.

However, yes, there were warnings put up with all this that there could be effects on skills while they were setting things up.  If it's permanent, I'd rather the rules be switched.  Riding with a shield is historically significant because of its feasibility and usefulness in mounted combat.  Riding with a bow is historically significant.  Riding as a mounted dual wielding berserker is not...so if we're gonna make it impossible for one style, lets at least make it the one that makes sense.

10000% this.

Riding with a shield, is a time honored tradition in both the real world, and the Zalanthan world. Dual wielding? Not usually done in the real world but okay sure, fighting mounted while dual wielding? I would say stupendously difficult to do efficiently, but sure, lets go with it being possible.

I wouldnt care so much if nohands ride was completely removed, but dont remove only half of it. (the realistic half)