Hermaphrodites and Crossdressing

[BadSkeelz]

On Hermaphrodites,

My characters consistently treat it as a mutation, but a fairly minor one. In a world where you might meet someone who is half-beetle, half-lizard, has wings or three eyes or can summon the elemental forces of nature to destroy you, someone having unusual plumbing is not that big a deal. Especially if you find them subjectively personable or attractive anyway.

On crossdressing,

My representational of Zalanthas' gender roles (or lack thereof) is to not acknowledge the gender coding of clothing. The only time my characters comment on one's dress is when my PC thinks it might be interfering with the other's job. A woman wearing a dining gown out on spider patrol is going to get as much shit as a man doing it.

[Reiloth]

On Hermaphrodites,

My characters consistently treat it as a mutation, but a fairly minor one. In a world where you might meet someone who is half-beetle, half-lizard, has wings or three eyes or can summon the elemental forces of nature to destroy you, someone having unusual plumbing is not that big a deal. Especially if you find them subjectively personable or attractive anyway.

On crossdressing,

My representational of Zalanthas' gender roles (or lack thereof) is to not acknowledge the gender coding of clothing. The only time my characters comment on one's dress is when my PC thinks it might be interfering with the other's job. A woman wearing a dining gown out on spider patrol is going to get as much shit as a man doing it.

+1, maybe +2.

[Jingo]

Hermaphroditism is a mutation. Mutants are looked upon with varying levels of disdain depending on the mutation's severity - this is largely subjective and isn't really comparable to racism. Zalanthans would definitely notice and bat an eye.

Usually when we talk about mutations, we're talking about those exotic mutations like skin color, extra appendages and the like that we rarely see in the real world. I don't think we should plant real-world conditions along with the fantasy mutations we have on Zalanthas.

To quote yourself, says who?

True hermaphroditism is a very rare condition, therefore it is an exotic mutation.

Mutations in Zalanthas. GEEEEEZ

I didn't know there was a difference between Zalanthas mutations and the Real World mutations. Are we to assume then that hermaphroditism is a common mutation trait in Zalanthas?

If my character's goal is to eradicate all mutants in Allanak and I decide to murder a guy who has three penises, am I going to get reported to Staff?

I don't think characters with these conditions should be on your list.

And you probably shouldn't ever call them mutants. Ever.

Err...I think you are applying a little too much of your own personal bias onto the subject. It is a mutation, or at least it is considered as such from a scientific standpoint. That isn't like...A bad thing? You can take it to mean it's derogatory or meant to hurt your feelings, but I don't think it is.

To a Zalanthan, anything that 'doesn't look like me' could possibly be a mutant. Or a weird looking Elf. Or a cross-breed with a Braxat, otherwise known as a mutant.

If a male PC looks between their legs and sees one penis, and looks between someone else's legs and sees a penis and a vagina, I think they are within their rights (as a Zalanthan with absolutely no idea what modern science is) to call the other person a mutant.

No it's just I don't think we want to lump our fantasy mutants with conditions that people struggle with on a daily basis.

Sensitivity is part of it. It's also kind of dumb and stupid.

[Reiloth]

O_o

I fail to see how being OOCly sensitive to Intersex people translates to ICly being sensitive to Intersex people. Should we also not be racist towards Elves because racism as a concept is considered OOCly bigoted and backwards?

[Jingo]

O_o

I fail to see how being OOCly sensitive to Intersex people translates to ICly being sensitive to Intersex people. Should we also not be racist towards Elves because racism as a concept is considered OOCly bigoted and backwards?

No.

You should be racist to elves. You shouldn't be racist to characters with dark skin colors.

Discriminate against fantasy mutants. Do not discriminate against every congenital and non-congenital disorder just because they can be described as "mutant" with a bit of semantic twisting.

[Patuk]

Dude.

People in real life are born with six fingers. People in real life are born hunchbacks. People in real life are born as albinos. These things happen, and they're perfectly decent people, but in Zalanthas these are mutants, and mutants are dirty. Exceptions don't factor into that.

[Miradus]

Virtue signalling.

Let's just acknowledge Jingo is one hell of a good human being and ignore the rest of this crap.

[BadSkeelz]

I would disagree that "mutants are dirty" is a true blanket statement. This isn't 40K.

Mutants in Tuluk are not an uncommon sight and didn't warrant much of a reaction. They might even be given a little extra respect, as mutant legions played a notable role in the Liberation. Unfortunately I never met any PC mutants in Tuluk so I wasn't able to explore this indepth, but the number of mutant NPCs walking around unmolested (and well dressed, sometimes) doesn't suggest they're second class citizens.

The Silt Sea is also associated with mutations, so they're presumably more common in Red Storm. The people there tend not to want to get involved in anyone's private business, so a mutation doesn't attract much comment.

Mutants in Allanak probably get the roughest treatment, but even there I think there's a scale of reaction and that hermaphrodites/transexuals/whatever would fall on the lighter side of that scale. Extra digits, unusual skin or hair colors (like blue), extra limbs... none of these are unheard of or attract much attention. I don't see someone having sex organs "at odds" with their perceived sex to be much different. The only time I imagine it would attract comment is if you get them in to bed and you were really looking forward to Option A, but instead get Option B or C.

Again, we have much more serious things to freak out about and hate on.

[Jingo]

Dude.

People in real life are born with six fingers. People in real life are born hunchbacks. People in real life are born as albinos. These things happen, and they're perfectly decent people, but in Zalanthas these are mutants, and mutants are dirty. Exceptions don't factor into that.

I think the line is blurry. But it needs to exist. You actually came up with a few examples I hadn't considered.

Virtue signalling.

Let's just acknowledge Jingo is one hell of a good human being and ignore the rest of this crap.

Do you have an actual argument?

[Reiloth]

Exactly. I'm not using 'mutant' as a derogatory term, and actually I don't think most Zalanthans would use 'mutant' as a derogatory term (except for extreme mutations). I think it just means 'different than normal'. And for a Zalanthan, the normative might be very skewed towards 'looks just like me'.

So they might call a six-fingered half-elf a mutant, just because a) they aren't themselves a half-elf and b) they think people born with six fingers are mutants, simply because they themselves weren't born with six fingers on a hand.

I'm sorry, but if you want to play the 'congenital and non-congenital disorder' PC, my PC can react to them however they want to. There isn't acceptable social behavior surrounding these people in Zalanthas. There's just 'what my PC sees' and how they react. Don't worry, it probably won't be a bad reaction. But asking my gruff PC Bynner to be ICly sensitive to people who don't look like him/her based on OOC sensitivity is a little...Overbearing? To say the least.

[Miradus]

Do you have an actual argument?

Yeah. I made it awhile back.

You don't get to tell other players how to think.

Maybe staff will make a special role for you. Social Justice Storyteller, where you can stomp on any roleplay that might offend real-world sensibilities.

Until then we'll carry on doing whatever we do without worrying about what PC_Jingo may think.

[Jingo]

I'm sorry, but if you want to play the 'congenital and non-congenital disorder' PC, my PC can react to them however they want to. There isn't acceptable social behavior surrounding these people in Zalanthas. There's just 'what my PC sees' and how they react. Don't worry, it probably won't be a bad reaction. But asking my gruff PC Bynner to be ICly sensitive to people who don't look like him/her based on OOC sensitivity is a little...Overbearing? To say the least.

No it's just I don't think we want to lump our fantasy mutants with conditions that people struggle with on a daily basis.

I'm not even asking for sensitivity in character. Just don't drop them into the same group.

[Lutagar]

Y'all say no one would pay much attention to a mutation but I've got one word for you:

Catgirl

[BadSkeelz]

The only real sin about the catgirl was that she was a commoner who Tuluki nobles were fucking. That was the major taboo being broken. The mutation was (or should have been) incidental.

[Reiloth]

The only real sin about the catgirl was that she was a commoner who Tuluki nobles were fucking. That was the major taboo being broken. The mutation was (or should have been) incidental.

The mutation was incidental. It raised some eyebrows, but so does the 'winged mutant' and other sort of extreme mutations.

[Lutagar]

The only real sin about the catgirl was that she was a commoner who Tuluki nobles were fucking

Gonna kink shame and say this only happened BECAUSE of the mutation thus causing a significant reaction which is still legendary to this day.

[Jingo]

Do you have an actual argument?

Yeah. I made it awhile back.

You don't get to tell other players how to think.

Maybe staff will make a special role for you. Social Justice Storyteller, where you can stomp on any roleplay that might offend real-world sensibilities.

Until then we'll carry on doing whatever we do without worrying about what PC_Jingo may think.

Well you're free to reiterate it. Calling me an SJW isn't one, so you know.

[BadSkeelz]

The only real sin about the catgirl was that she was a commoner who Tuluki nobles were fucking. That was the major taboo being broken. The mutation was (or should have been) incidental.

The mutation was incidental. It raised some eyebrows, but so does the 'winged mutant' and other sort of extreme mutations.

That's what I thought. What I really meant to say is that it should have been incidental to the playerbase reaction, but "lol catgirls" is a common internet meme. I figure that's why she's as notorious as she is among the playerbase and not for the perfectly valid documentation-violations that the incident was really about.

The only real sin about the catgirl was that she was a commoner who Tuluki nobles were fucking

Gonna kink shame and say this only happened BECAUSE of the mutation thus causing a significant reaction which is still legendary to this day.

It was still a taboo that was broken and deserved punishment, even if she wasn't a mutant.

[Armaddict]

...you guys certainly take roleplaying to a whole other level than I do, for sure.

[Miradus]

...you guys certainly take roleplaying to a whole other level than I do, for sure.

Same. I've never seen any other character's genitals. Don't intend to either.

[Reiloth]

...you guys certainly take roleplaying to a whole other level than I do, for sure.

lol, I know...I'm mostly speculating, but this is so not something I think about really.

[Malken]

Hermaphrodism is a mutation and if I see one in game I will call it a mutant. You are free to go full SJW on me ICly if it bothers you.

If you are a buff male warrior fighting in a floral dress and high heels I will laugh IRL but it won't affect my character one bit. Fair enough?

[Molten Heart]

Y'all say no one would pay much attention to a mutation but I've got one word for you:

Catgirl

I've been resisting posting, but this thread reminds me of Angela Christine and a certain genital mutation she once posted about (maybe more than once? I've been searching but can't find it). It's etched in my memory and I'll never forget.

[Riev]

Hermaphrodism is a mutation and if I see one in game I will call it a mutant. You are free to go full SJW on me ICly if it bothers you.

If you are a buff male warrior fighting in a floral dress and high heels I will laugh IRL but it won't affect my character one bit. Fair enough?

I actually once laughed ICly at someone who showed up to the T'zai Byn wearing a dress. Wouldn't matter if it was female or male... it was kind of funny.

But if someone can kick your ass when they're in heels and a dress? Guess its time to beg forgiveness.

[Jingo]

Hermaphrodism is a mutation and if I see one in game I will call it a mutant. You are free to go full SJW on me ICly if it bothers you.

I think it's a problem with the word itself more than anything. It means onyx-sclera'd, whip-tailed buggaboo as much as it means a disease or condition. So I wouldn't use the term.

But rest easy, the tumblr police havn't been given a kill order. Yet.

If you are a buff male warrior fighting in a floral dress and high heels I will laugh IRL but it won't affect my character one bit. Fair enough?

I'm with badskeelz. I'd be wondering why the they're wearing it to battle in the first place..