Remaining Organizations

[Patuk]

Didn't we have a thread juuust last week where LoD noted some of his people held up a noble? I'll grant that apparently, a number of them were muls, which says to me their power level was insane, but.. I'd like to believe this'd at least be codedly very possible.

[Cind]

These days the Byn's welfare is too dependent on being nice to Allanak. Like they did at Ten Serak, they can't be bought out by the city-state that offered them a higher price and then go hide there for a while after their contract is over. (I'm pretty sure that's what happened, anyway. I sure as hell didn't see any bynners on the other side.)

While I see this as a problem, its origins are IC and its an excellent opportunity for anti-Allanak or neutral mercenaries to band together, base themselves out of Storm, survive and train through hunting and be ready for contracts that may or may not be considered treasonous, and--- this is a selling point--- will be hush-hush. You sure as hell couldn't buy that from the Byn.

[Miradus]

These days the Byn's welfare is too dependent on being nice to Allanak. Like they did at Ten Serak, they can't be bought out by the city-state that offered them a higher price and then go hide there for a while after their contract is over. (I'm pretty sure that's what happened, anyway. I sure as hell didn't see any bynners on the other side.)

While I see this as a problem, its origins are IC and its an excellent opportunity for anti-Allanak or neutral mercenaries to band together, base themselves out of Storm, survive and train through hunting and be ready for contracts that may or may not be considered treasonous, and--- this is a selling point--- will be hush-hush. You sure as hell couldn't buy that from the Byn.

Super cool idea.

Why in the heck is the forum so full of these ideas but I hardly ever see it in game? Am I just not in-the-know or what?

[Delirium]

Didn't we have a thread juuust last week where LoD noted some of his people held up a noble? I'll grant that apparently, a number of them were muls, which says to me their power level was insane, but.. I'd like to believe this'd at least be codedly very possible.

They had a hideout that wasn't based in any of the cities, so they could get away with it... for a while.

Allanak eventually ROFLstomped them.

[Reiloth]

Weirdly, I feel like if the Byn's home base was in Luir's rather than Allanak, it would sort of feed into the neutrality thing.

[Miradus]

Weirdly, I feel like if the Byn's home base was in Luir's rather than Allanak, it would sort of feed into the neutrality thing.

Yeah and give some accessibility to both sides.

I like Luir's. It's not as seedy as Red Storm (downside) but it occasionally has people (upside).

[Riev]

There's a secondary "base" but its hardly used and if the entire 300-man Company had to re-locate, something went TERRIBLY wrong. Usually they'd just off the Sergeant that made the mistake in capitulation.

As to why we have great ideas, but they aren't in game? Mundane Mercenaries that are CAPABLE of doing what is being suggested take at least 10-15days played in their respective skillsets to be considered usable. That's a lot of time and energy, going into a character that you KNOW will have a short life after making these decisions.

Staff assistance/intervention/whatever you want to call it is almost NECESSARY to do much of this as well. Not just for bases, or hideouts, or what have you, but to have the world come alive and provide opportunity. Caravans don't exist in our sphere of influence. Wagons hardly ride out, and when they do, code makes them nearly unassailable without assistance.

[Inks]

I really don't want to beat a dead horse here but staff enjoy supporting cool plots that enrich the game, in general.

The clanned hunter thing was a good move for the game. Would make it lonely for clanned merchants though but the hunters werent around much anyway.

[Dresan]

Outside a clan the only sparring options for people are spar in an apartment (assuming its big enough you can RP getting away with it. Don't expect karma sort of thing) or spar in a warehouse. Sparring outside, at night or in alleys is another option I guess.

I always felt the benefits of an open sparring arena in a game with a shrinking population was beneficial for all clans. It allowed people to train/interact with each other across the clans. It made sparring more enjoyable and increased interaction for all (since people wouldn't be hiding in their barracks all day). This is probably why there was an attempt to revive it a bit with levies.

A place that is open for just couple hours IC hours day, that people need to pay for to get in (yay money sinks) would probably be nice to have. Just boot everyone out of the room after the time limit or just turn on and off the crim-code like night and day, and that should be enough to stop any 'abuse'. 

[Narf]

Outside a clan the only sparring options for people are spar in an apartment (assuming its big enough you can RP getting away with it. Don't expect karma sort of thing) or spar in a warehouse. Sparring outside, at night or in alleys is another option I guess.

Using foolish places to spar makes the game way the heck more interesting. The only accessible place I haven't sparred yet is openly on the city streets, but it's on my bucket list.

[Riev]

Open sparring was attempted in the past, but with newbies/people who don't understand how to spar/people legitimately wanting to kill people without crim code, I think staff decided it was too much oversight to basically always be watching these very public !crime zones.

If my character wasn't... where my character is at, I know of some great places where this kind of stuff could happen. "Sparring" happens in clans because of scheduling, numbers of interested PCs, and access. Sparring on the rooftops, when not in a clan, always feels twinky. ALways.

[Miradus]

Open sparring was attempted in the past, but with newbies/people who don't understand how to spar/people legitimately wanting to kill people without crim code, I think staff decided it was too much oversight to basically always be watching these very public !crime zones.

If my character wasn't... where my character is at, I know of some great places where this kind of stuff could happen. "Sparring" happens in clans because of scheduling, numbers of interested PCs, and access. Sparring on the rooftops, when not in a clan, always feels twinky. ALways.

If you see me sparring somewhere outside of a clan's circle, it's because sparring is FUN, not twinky.

There's a bazillion "safe" places to spar out in the wilds. Are you safe from someone else walking up on you and giving you a whack while you are already low from sparring? No. But you shouldn't be. And I doubt you would be in a "public" sparring area either. Given the choice, I'd rather say to a friend, "Hey, let's whip out the wooden daggers and train a bit while our beetles rest up" than go to a public sparring area and hope someone is there. Partly because I distrust the concept, partly because I don't think they really fit the city theme, and partly because I wouldn't want strangers knowing how codedly powerful I am (or I'm not).

[Riev]

and partly because I wouldn't want strangers knowing how codedly powerful I am (or I'm not).

For years, all I've wanted is some sort of "change effort <minimal, average, maximum>" that would affect our skills, abilities, and timer fails respectively. So you can set a minimal effort in sparring, or if you want to APPEAR to be terrible, but if you set maximum effort there's like a 60% increase in your abilities.


I too, dislike other people knowing just how strong I am. BECAUSE I'M ONLY AT JOURNEYMAN, GUISE.

[Lizzie]

and partly because I wouldn't want strangers knowing how codedly powerful I am (or I'm not).

For years, all I've wanted is some sort of "change effort <minimal, average, maximum>" that would affect our skills, abilities, and timer fails respectively. So you can set a minimal effort in sparring, or if you want to APPEAR to be terrible, but if you set maximum effort there's like a 60% increase in your abilities.


I too, dislike other people knowing just how strong I am. BECAUSE I'M ONLY AT JOURNEYMAN, GUISE.

I don't remember which games they were but I used to play on a couple that had adjustable combat percentage. Basically -

whatever YOUR personal best at offense is, compared with YOUR personal worst at defense, would be 100% offense, 0% defense.

You could adjust that, so that your current offensive is only 90% of your personal best, and your defense is now at 10% better than your personal worst.

Obviously everything is numeric behind the curtain, so just pretend that a raw out of chargen's raw offense is valued at the number 60, and the raw defense of the same noob is 2.

So he'd be 60/2 if he was in full offensive mode. He'd be 2/60 in full defensive mode. He could switch anywhere between the two, as long as the total of offense + defense = max_offense.

[Gaare]

I just wanted to toss a couple of sids..

Hopefully this road leads to more player created clans. If some of those clans can have a holding or two, then there can be many more roles avaliable. I always disliked merchant house hunters. They can hire a bodyguard or two, though.

[Taven]

and partly because I wouldn't want strangers knowing how codedly powerful I am (or I'm not).

For years, all I've wanted is some sort of "change effort <minimal, average, maximum>" that would affect our skills, abilities, and timer fails respectively. So you can set a minimal effort in sparring, or if you want to APPEAR to be terrible, but if you set maximum effort there's like a 60% increase in your abilities.


I too, dislike other people knowing just how strong I am. BECAUSE I'M ONLY AT JOURNEYMAN, GUISE.

I don't remember which games they were but I used to play on a couple that had adjustable combat percentage. Basically -

whatever YOUR personal best at offense is, compared with YOUR personal worst at defense, would be 100% offense, 0% defense.

You could adjust that, so that your current offensive is only 90% of your personal best, and your defense is now at 10% better than your personal worst.

Obviously everything is numeric behind the curtain, so just pretend that a raw out of chargen's raw offense is valued at the number 60, and the raw defense of the same noob is 2.

So he'd be 60/2 if he was in full offensive mode. He'd be 2/60 in full defensive mode. He could switch anywhere between the two, as long as the total of offense + defense = max_offense.

I think this would be neat, although if you're focusing on appearing bad, I don't think you should be gaining skill ability for that. In my opinion, to really get better at whatever you're doing, you should have to give it your all.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a useful tool for throwing people off, though. Or for training, when you don't want to cause too much damage to your sparring partner. Or if you just don't like whoever it is you're working for and don't want to give a full effort. I feel like there's a lot of potential uses.

[Akaramu]

Open sparring was attempted in the past, but with newbies/people who don't understand how to spar/people legitimately wanting to kill people without crim code, I think staff decided it was too much oversight to basically always be watching these very public !crime zones.

Here's an idea for a code addition!

Challenge code.

You challenge (person) to a duel in a location where crimcode is in effect, but duels are allowed. If that person accepts, the two of you can then spar for a limited amount of time - like, half a day? Without triggering crimcode. Bystanders will know that a duel is going on and not alert the authorities, UNLESS someone dies. If that happens, crimcode triggers as usual.

Wouldn't that be cool?

To avoid abuse, we could limit this code to one location (such as a public sparring hall) where duels are allowed. Templars probably wouldn't want random commoners sparring on Caravan Road and disrupting traffic.

[boog]

Let it be known that I hate the duel code in most MMORPGs.

Like, bro, I'm a gimpy level 15 holy priest but you're gonna sit here at level 80 as a blood death knight and be like, 'lol c'mon bruh, aren't u twinked?'

I dunno. I think if properly RPed and in a large enough private room, I think sparring alone is fine. There are work arounds in game. You just gotta ... work around it.

[Akaramu]

I dunno. I think if properly RPed and in a large enough private room, I think sparring alone is fine. There are work arounds in game. You just gotta ... work around it.

Yeah, but...

Open sparring was attempted in the past, but with newbies/people who don't understand how to spar/people legitimately wanting to kill people without crim code, I think staff decided it was too much oversight to basically always be watching these very public !crime zones.

We're talking about a 'combat school' thingy in Allanak where you'd pay to enter. I can see how it could be abused without constant staff supervision (for PKing without crimflag). A challenge code would prevent abuse.

[Malken]

Duels that last half a day aren't duels anymore. And let's be honest, this "duel code" wouldn't be used for duel'ing, they'd be used constantly by the same people just to train.

[Akaramu]

Duels that last half a day aren't duels anymore. And let's be honest, this "duel code" wouldn't be used for duel'ing, they'd be used constantly by the same people just to train.

That's the point of a publicly accessible combat school. For people, who pay to enter, to train. The whole purpose of my duel code suggestion was to prevent abuse.

[Miradus]

We're talking about a 'combat school' thingy in Allanak where you'd pay to enter. I can see how it could be abused without constant staff supervision (for PKing without crimflag). A challenge code would prevent abuse.

Okay, let's have a no-holds barred conversation about this.

You can ALREADY PK without crimflag, if the person you want to PK ever leaves the city. But a lot of the people who you would normally see conflict arise from PK are smart enough to never put themselves in any position at all where they might get pkilled. I'm talking about types of characters who are quite fine and happy to sit and be rude and caustic and power-hungry but yet never leave the safety of a city guard where someone might take revenge, or try to gain an upper hand in some sort of systemic power struggle.

The kind of player who isn't like that is probably perfectly fine with grabbing a training weapon and going outside the city in the wilderness somewhere and having a nice spar with someone they trust. The kind of person whose IC actions lead them to OOCly constantly worry about being PK'd is the one who isn't fine with that and who wants to extend that code protection to a safe place for them to spar.

IC actions leads to IC consequences, as I've heard some people say. Structuring all of your play so that you're protected from your IC actions by crimcode IS abuse, in my opinion.

[Miradus]

Duels that last half a day aren't duels anymore. And let's be honest, this "duel code" wouldn't be used for duel'ing, they'd be used constantly by the same people just to train.

I've had IC conversations with people where we met for a quick drink and the next thing you know, the game has rolled from dusk to high sun. Did we really just sit in a bar and chat for 18 hours? No, we sat and had a conversation that OOC lasted about 30 minutes or so.

So sparring for half a day isn't a big deal and if the players are enjoying it and roleplaying properly, then it's NO DIFFERENT from someone else's play where they stay awake for 3 game days chatting with people in the bar like a drugged up coke fiend.

[Akaramu]

I doubt it's IC for most characters to leave the city ONLY to spar. I've certainly never played a character who would have gone into the wilderness with a training weapon to spar. The wilderness is where you go to hunt, greb, and travel somewhere - because it's dangerous out there! For instance, I had a warrior bard in Fale who was ICly a sissy and wouldn't have left the city except for very strong, pressing reasons. The poor guy never got a chance to raise his skills for years and years. Because Fale didn't have a training compound.

Some clans don't even allow their minions to leave the city. And silky aides might want combat training, too. You tell that silky aide with guild_merchant to go train with wooden weapons where scrabs and spiders roam!

[Malken]

Duels that last half a day aren't duels anymore. And let's be honest, this "duel code" wouldn't be used for duel'ing, they'd be used constantly by the same people just to train.

I've had IC conversations with people where we met for a quick drink and the next thing you know, the game has rolled from dusk to high sun. Did we really just sit in a bar and chat for 18 hours? No, we sat and had a conversation that OOC lasted about 30 minutes or so.

So sparring for half a day isn't a big deal and if the players are enjoying it and roleplaying properly, then it's NO DIFFERENT from someone else's play where they stay awake for 3 game days chatting with people in the bar like a drugged up coke fiend.

I agree. I was mostly disagreeing that it should be called a "duel" code just to pretend that this would be used for people to settle scores and things like that instead of the "let's go train in all safety" like it would be used 99.9% of the time.