Remaining Organizations

[Taven]

What did the Atrium actually do? Not even trying to be snarky or condescending. What did the Atrium provide beyond an IC playpen for new pc's?

I've never successfully done anything with the Atrium, so anything I say should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

That said, my understanding is that the Atrium is supposed to be an area for social and high-class commoner PCs to learn how to serve and interact with the world. They provide lessons on everything from etiquette, to massage, to history, to cooking, and more. It's supposed to be a mark of distinction to have an aide who has graduated the Atrium. Basically, this is an opportunity for social PCs to have their own clan and interact. I think that has a lot of value.

However, I believe that there came a number of challenges related to this. First of all, that lessons should be engaging, interesting, and also useful. I would imagine that etiquette lessons, for example, would not appeal to everyone and could be difficult to make interesting. Further, if you learn all of this etiquette for how things are supposed to be done and then none of the nobles make it matter for anything, then I imagine it feels fairly useless. I would imagine that you would need the right social conditions for things to really be relevant.

Same question for the Tor academy.

The Tor Academy was all about advanced combat and strategy training, and was also intended to revolve around lessons (though when I attended it, back when Tor had Scorpions, it seemed primarily sparring-focused to me). For someone who wants to play an elite commoner combat PC who knows high-level combat planning, this was an ideal clan. I personally think it's rather fascinating.

I think people tend to value things less that have no definitive coded gain, however. If you take sparring out of the Academy, then it becomes pure RP. I personally find that very interesting, but I don't think everyone does.

[Reiloth]

Unpopular opinion time.

What did the Atrium actually do? Not even trying to be snarky or condescending. What did the Atrium provide beyond an IC playpen for new pc's?

Same question for the Tor academy.

The Atrium -- It allowed people to cut their teeth, especially newbies, on the political scene in Allanak. It provided an environment for them to be around Nobles and Aides that were their group of peers, similar to a 'group of peers' in University. It allowed them to make mistakes without them being fatal, especially for newbies -- Knowing when to bow, how to recognize Nobles, and the nuance of Zalanthan Politics that a complete newbie to the game won't learn from documentation. It also sort of provided a 'Poet's Circle' atmosphere for people who aren't all into fart jokes and low-class sort of RP in Allanak, in essence, for the 'Tuluki Player' to get their rocks off in Allanak. I enjoyed it while it was around.

Where it began to get weird, IMHO, was when it turned into a social club for Nobles. It really shouldn't have gotten to the point it did, and the Arboretum should have been (and is now) the sort of 'Members Only' club for Nobility. The vagueness of where House Terash stood/stands when it comes to hierarchy and Estate access also didn't seem really spelled out. But from what I understand, it's being sort of dismantled/reassessed/redocumentified, which I take it is easier when it's closed and doesn't have active players in it. All of the documentation revamps in the last 5 or so years have been welcomed and exquisite, so i'm looking forward to what this brings to the Atrium stepping forward.



Tor Academy, a sort of military elite club to discuss military politics and strategy, and also allow 'high end' Commoners and Nobles to spar each other occasionally. I always liked it when it was around. I'm sure it had it's slew of problems, but all of my interactions with it were positive.

[Jingo]

I suppose as a jaded vet I don't see a whole lot of use in a school for aides.

I never thought any of the social mores were hard to pick up on and I've never seen the Atrium pin as much more than a merit badge that could be skipped altogether.

I like the social club idea. Not as a club for nobles but more of a social club for aides. The kind of place where they could trade favors on neutral territory without being under the watchful eye of their house.

[Taven]

I suppose as a jaded vet I don't see a whole lot of use in a school for aides.

I never thought any of the social mores were hard to pick up on and I've never seen the Atrium pin as much more than a merit badge that could be skipped altogether.

Did you know that at a fancy dinner, the guests are always to be served their food and drink before the host is?

I sure didn't, but the Allanaki Senior nobility sure did.

How many PC-level nobles are aware of the difference and would know enough to scornfully comment on it? Or to take it as an intentional slight? No idea. However, if you look at a high-class situation, there are opportunities for little details like that to matter, if people want them to.

I like the social club idea. Not as a club for nobles but more of a social club for aides. The kind of place where they could trade favors on neutral territory without being under the watchful eye of their house.

I think an aide's club is not just under the eyes of your House, but also every other House, because every other House would have aides there (if only virtually). There's also no reason that one of the three taverns that caters to the higher class population couldn't be this.

[Jingo]

I suppose as a jaded vet I don't see a whole lot of use in a school for aides.

I never thought any of the social mores were hard to pick up on and I've never seen the Atrium pin as much more than a merit badge that could be skipped altogether.

Did you know that at a fancy dinner, the guests are always to be served their food and drink before the host is?

I sure didn't, but the Allanaki Senior nobility sure did.


How many PC-level nobles are aware of the difference and would know enough to scornfully comment on it? Or to take it as an intentional slight? No idea. However, if you look at a high-class situation, there are opportunities for little details like that to matter, if people want them to.

I've seen the rules change on this very subject at least twice. And I've seen new rules added and other rules forgotten. I've seen them followed to a T by some players and willfully ignored by others.

I don't think the rules for serving tea are that significant. At most they're a wrinkle players like to add to the game. We can survive without them.

I like the social club idea. Not as a club for nobles but more of a social club for aides. The kind of place where they could trade favors on neutral territory without being under the watchful eye of their house.

I think an aide's club is not just under the eyes of your House, but also every other House, because every other House would have aides there (if only virtually). There's also no reason that one of the three taverns that caters to the higher class population couldn't be this.

Think about the room for conflict that opens up here. A noble could become a client of the Atrium Union with all the benefits and strings attached. Or they could opt out and risk making some political enemies of some influence. Individual aides could opt in or out. If they opt in and break "the code of silence" they could become marked for death. Aides would also need to juggle the needs of the union and the needs of their masters.

[Akaramu]

I vaguely remember playing in the Atrium twice, but I only recall details of the more recent instance where I developed the BEST FRIENDSHIPS OF ANY PC EVER in that clan. In my honest opinion, it's a fabulous place for future political players to mingle and develop a history with one another. Those relationships (good or bad) will make Allanak's political landscape all the more interesting after the students graduate from the Atrium.

[nauta]

I never played in the Atrium, but two comments on it:

1) I think the little decorum flavor is one of the best things about the social in Armageddon, and certainly if you want to look for a way to have 'conflict' that doesn't involve a finger on the kill button, mean girls style RP backed by more than just ego (that is, backed by cultural traditions) is definitely a great thing.  That said, I would like this spelled out in the documentation rather than as lore that people discover IG -- perhaps documentation for the noble/GMH clans at least -- I remember Salarr used to have 'etiquette' days built into their schedule.  This levels the playing field, creates an objective backdrop for the subtle insults that can come about through setting the table wrong, and allows everyone to play along.  Nothing more awkward than a biting insult that is completely missed by the insulted.

2) In Tuluk at its twilight, the aides got together once every 2 RL weeks for tea.  No nobles invited.  It was a good chance to plan RPTs and catch up on gossip, etc.  I liked that it was PC driven and I liked that it took place in a common place so people could eavesdrop (although, heheh, Tuluk!)  From an outsiders perspective, I didn't like how the Atrium drew PCs out of the common population -- the Ginka would be a prefect spot for such, or even Red's.

[Patuk]

I mean, shouldn't this kind of documentation be made available to nobles in the first place? What use is the Atrium really if some aide ends up more educated than their employer?

I do agree about the Atrium seeming to turn into its own universe a lot though. For people who supposedly would need to mediate between the nobility and commoners a lot, aides don't seem like they do very much in public.

[Taven]

Think about the room for conflict that opens up here. A noble could become a client of the Atrium Union with all the benefits and strings attached. Or they could opt out and risk making some political enemies of some influence. Individual aides could opt in or out. If they opt in and break "the code of silence" they could become marked for death. Aides would also need to juggle the needs of the union and the needs of their masters.

So you sort of want the Bardic Circle, only instead of being about performance culture, you want it to be about politics. That works in Tuluk, because the Circle is the keeper of culture, and well-ingrained in society through a long history.

I'm not sure what reason Allanak would have for allowing an organization of commoners to get so strong as to be able to have benefits and strings attached with being their client or not. I'm also not sure why an Allanaki noble would want to hire someone with obvious ties to another organization, and an obvious conflict of interest.

It's not that the idea isn't somewhat interesting, it's just that I think finding an IC basis for it would be something of a stretch.

[Miradus]

In the Middle Ages, the nobility exerted a lot of downward pressure on the merchant class to keep them from rising "above their station". In little, petty-seeming things sometimes it could be seen.

Think of the breaking of the Hanseatic League in and around Lubeck. The guild monopolies caused them to grow in power and take more and more rights, cutting into the power of the nobility.

While Zalanthas isn't modeled on the Middle Ages by any stretch, I think people are still people and a lot of that power struggle would transfer. I'd love to see it represented more in-game.

[Dar]

Part of the reason behind the merchants rising in power at expense of nobility was wealth, talent, and influence. In Armageddon there is a glass ceiling.

A fat rich merchant says, "From the very youth I understood one thing. Wealth is Power!"

A black robe mentions, observing the fat rich merchant slowly disintegrate in thin air, "Over my lifetime. I too have realized one thing. Power is Power."





stolen from game of thrones:P.

[Reiloth]

I always thought the 'silk' pressure in Allanak was exactly that. The 'Better People' deciding whether or not you could wear silk, and their opinions could change depending on their whims.

Because really, Merchants could probably outspend a Noble. But one thing is certain -- No matter how hard a Merchant tries, they will never be a Noble. Nobles like making that clear.

[Jingo]

Think about the room for conflict that opens up here. A noble could become a client of the Atrium Union with all the benefits and strings attached. Or they could opt out and risk making some political enemies of some influence. Individual aides could opt in or out. If they opt in and break "the code of silence" they could become marked for death. Aides would also need to juggle the needs of the union and the needs of their masters.

So you sort of want the Bardic Circle, only instead of being about performance culture, you want it to be about politics. That works in Tuluk, because the Circle is the keeper of culture, and well-ingrained in society through a long history.

I'm not sure what reason Allanak would have for allowing an organization of commoners to get so strong as to be able to have benefits and strings attached with being their client or not. I'm also not sure why an Allanaki noble would want to hire someone with obvious ties to another organization, and an obvious conflict of interest.

It's not that the idea isn't somewhat interesting, it's just that I think finding an IC basis for it would be something of a stretch.

The how and the why really isn't that important. We could come up with any reason why something like this could happen.

I can see an alliance of senior servants coming to an agreement that suits them and protects them to some degree from the whims of their masters. And perhaps they gain the support of a red robe for some reason or another.

Done ezpz

[Cind]

For people who supposedly would need to mediate between the nobility and commoners a lot, aides don't seem like they do very much in public.

I always thought they were just busy waying and keeping messages memorized all the time, which is one of the things that turns me off to the role.

[nauta]

And perhaps they gain the support of a red robe for some reason or another.

Done ezpz

stola rubra ex machina

[Cind]

People are making hunting groups right, to fill the gap the House hunters left behind?

Make one that does low-class armors/weapons or low-class jewelry/clothing.

And then start upping your class when you are big enough and cutting into a House's profits.

Now that I've said it I'm thinking half of your people are going to just up and vanish or even join the enemy but if you get some of them loyal you could do what amount to a tiny commoner's mind as damage.

[Hauwke]

Honestly, I myself have had a few ideas for a couple MMH's but the thing is I dont have the drive to icly seek it all out. Thats the single issue with it. Ideas ranging from the mercenary one all the way through to a very guild like one. In varying degrees of legality of course. The ideas are there but I lack the drive to do it in its entirety at this point, maybe when I am older and can keep focused on something for longer than a week. Longer living pcs lately has helped I guess.

[Miradus]

Honestly, I myself have had a few ideas for a couple MMH's but the thing is I dont have the drive to icly seek it all out. Thats the single issue with it. Ideas ranging from the mercenary one all the way through to a very guild like one. In varying degrees of legality of course. The ideas are there but I lack the drive to do it in its entirety at this point, maybe when I am older and can keep focused on something for longer than a week. Longer living pcs lately has helped I guess.

The character who had a vision to start a mercenary company to compete with the Byn but died a week in is STILL more interesting than the character with no vision who dies a week in. And your IC actions during that first week will have ripple effect consequences on the game world that outlast your character.

Just do it.

[Riev]

Honestly, I myself have had a few ideas for a couple MMH's but the thing is I dont have the drive to icly seek it all out. Thats the single issue with it. Ideas ranging from the mercenary one all the way through to a very guild like one. In varying degrees of legality of course. The ideas are there but I lack the drive to do it in its entirety at this point, maybe when I am older and can keep focused on something for longer than a week. Longer living pcs lately has helped I guess.

The character who had a vision to start a mercenary company to compete with the Byn but died a week in is STILL more interesting than the character with no vision who dies a week in. And your IC actions during that first week will have ripple effect consequences on the game world that outlast your character.

Just do it.

I still have liked the small mercenary group upstarts I've seen in game. Where the Byn is SUPPOSED to be "coin above all", they have turned into a very politically savvy group, being careful what contracts they DO take. Especially in Allanak, because while in Tuluk few would blame the tool, 'Nakkis will break the tool out of spite.

I want to see a "real" mercenary group take hold. Not "raiders" by any means, but people who get paid a lot of coin from one group, to assault the assets of another group. Byn would NEVER take coin to assault a Salarri caravan, because they "need Salarr support". An indie group does not.

[Delirium]

Lol, an indie group attacking a GMH caravan might as well commit suicide. Not saying that's a good thing but that's the reality of the documented gameworld. #lowertheglassceiling2017

[Miradus]

Lol, an indie group attacking a GMH caravan might as well commit suicide. Not saying that's a good thing but that's the reality of the documented gameworld. #lowertheglassceiling2017

Codedly it would not be too difficult. You'd certainly increase the costs for any further security for the caravans, which is reason enough to do it.

The problem is the repercussions. Where does the mercenary band hold up to lick their wounds? Where do they sell their loot? Where do they hang out waiting for their NEXT contract? Red Storm is the only place I can think of and there's still the likelihood of getting stomped there unless you really make nice-nice with the Sandlord and give him a cut of the booty.

[Riev]

Its actually codedly stupid, too, with locked doors and !sentinel and such. Even all that aside, and WITH staff intervention to make all sides represented properly...

You can't even hide in Storm because they got people there too. Everything in the game is too big to fail.

[BadSkeelz]

#occupyZalanthas2017

[bardlyone]

I want to see a "real" mercenary group take hold. Not "raiders" by any means, but people who get paid a lot of coin from one group, to assault the assets of another group. Byn would NEVER take coin to assault a Salarri caravan, because they "need Salarr support". An indie group does not.

This makes me think about some things.

And now I'm sidetracked and thinking.

Hmm.

[Riev]

I want to see a "real" mercenary group take hold. Not "raiders" by any means, but people who get paid a lot of coin from one group, to assault the assets of another group. Byn would NEVER take coin to assault a Salarri caravan, because they "need Salarr support". An indie group does not.

This makes me think about some things.

And now I'm sidetracked and thinking.

Hmm.

It may be a more modern-mercenary way of thinking, but I'd suspect a "Black Ops" Mercenary Group would do well in Zalanthas. Paid to take out wagons, caravans, break into estates, kill gate guards, and what have you.

Its all stuff Byn COULD do, but has become in itself a group that ISN'T independent and requires far too much coin for simple things, to cover political losses.