regarding 'a random thought' in ATS

[650Booger]

An awesome point was brought up, that people should be more receptive in their RP to an invasive thought (one not generated by entering syntax yourself).

unless it's totally something bizarre that the PC would never think, like 'I should dump this mug of ale on the head of that templar', how would your PC automatically know it came from outside?

Psionicists should have more leeway to mess with people without the knee-jerk 'kill everybody who it might possibly be' reaction.

[Delirium]

It's a fine line - staff forcing feelings/thoughts onto PCs without a good, solid IC reason (and even then) removes control of the PC by its player. If the player has a solid reason for reacting in X way but staff is unaware of that reason and tries to force Y - it gets murky.

Otherwise, yes, completely agree - go with it, be willing to roll with a scene rather than refuse to "lose".

[Jihelu]

If random thoughts would be common, I'd be fine with them.
"I wonder what X tastes like with X"
"I should do something productive today"
etc.

Otherwise I'm going to assume everyones a mind worm and go on a genocide.

[650Booger]

If random thoughts would be common, I'd be fine with them.
"I wonder what X tastes like with X"
"I should do something productive today"
etc.

Otherwise I'm going to assume everyones a mind worm and go on a genocide.

random thoughts happen all day, virtually. 

[Armaddict]

Ath's post:

I once had a thought forced that was so incredibly counter to how my character thought about things, I immediately thought about how strange that thought was because that person was <insert relationship>.

This started a whole 'think' dialogue about whether or not it made sense, which I actually thought was really entertaining.

Is that bad?

[Bahliker]

I believe Random Thoughts is the most popular gdb thread. Case clooooosed. Now there's Shower Thoughts, for situational randomness.

I fully support embracing forced thinks and feels. But I'm going to play devils advocate here because I do have mixed feelings about expectations. If you're on the giving end of it, either as staff or as a player, don't get upset if somebody doesn't play along. For one thing, it's logical to assume that if the one forcing thinks had enough control to make the thought seem native, they'd have the ability to simply control ones actions. As stated, an invasive think could easily be interpreted as foreign, as someone else speaking, inside the head, with the speakers mind-voice. Until the rules say otherwise I have no problem with characters suspecting something is up as long as it's played out similar to the way Armaddict described.
For another thing, some people do play to win and tbh those are the players that keep things really moving. They may never be beloved by staff or more highbrow drama gurus, but they're still out there and they're doing nothing wrong by wanting to control their PC's actions. Since there may be a way to overcome that control through coded commands, and since some players will act that way within the guidelines and rules of the game, you e got to accept it with good graces.

[Jingo]

As a former player of psionicists, I suspect one out of five players are capable of reacting to psionics appropriately. Most cases result in the witch hunt mentioned in Ath's reply. This makes it INCREDIBLY frustrating to play psionicists. Nindworms should be able to insinuate themselves in and out of every situation. In reality if you use psi powers on someone, they'll probably just metafuck you for it.

And aggravating when you hear about Lord Templar suspecting someone because they idle alot. Or when the militia kill a psi because a half-giant from across the planet fingered them.

I don't know exactly what caused staff to change their tune. But when I was playing my psi, I was told that playing Psi is hardmode and that I should expect to get metaplayed.

Ath's post:

I once had a thought forced that was so incredibly counter to how my character thought about things, I immediately thought about how strange that thought was because that person was <insert relationship>.

This started a whole 'think' dialogue about whether or not it made sense, which I actually thought was really entertaining.

Is that bad?

This is great actually. I don't mind players reacting in ways that are unpredictable or even having fun thought-conversations. I just get annoyed when players over react and proclaim they are in the presence of mindworms. Or just barrier-up without reaction.

[Lizzie]

On staff sending thoughts that inspire action involving someone else...like the "I feel like punching this guy in the face" - I would prefer not to have that happen to me, UNLESS the staff had seen me already complaining about "this guy" in thoughts or conversations, and knew that my PC definitely, absolutely, positively, was someone who WOULD think about punching "this guy" in the face.

Once upon a time there was a mindbender who tried to get my character to think his character was gorgeous, and that she wanted to make out with him. In the meantime, my character couldn't stand his character. So of COURSE when she felt these thoughts, she knew something was up. Because - those thoughts were NOT something that she WOULD have thought on her own.

Another time, someone tried to make her think she was hungry - WHILE she was taking that last bite of food that puts you over the edge of full to "you can't eat anymore." Again, she knew something was wrong, because there was just plain no way she would think that thought on her own.

So - as long as the random thoughts make sense for the situation and the character, I'm ALL for it. I'd love to have a random butt-itch, or feel a bit of dried snot threatening to roll out of my nostril, or feel a foot cramp coming on if I've been standing still for awhile. Or sure - a random "oh jeez what a stupid conversation they're having over there" kind of thing, IF my character is clearly already doing a mental eye-roll about the conversation.

[Jingo]

Once upon a time there was a mindbender who tried to get my character to think his character was gorgeous, and that she wanted to make out with him. In the meantime, my character couldn't stand his character. So of COURSE when she felt these thoughts, she knew something was up. Because - those thoughts were NOT something that she WOULD have thought on her own.

This shouldn't be done. It could easily be seen as a violation of consent rules. I'll admit that I have done it though. But only with players that I knew were comfortable with it on an ooc level.

A Lirathan once tried to get my character to get it on with a couple of other hunters. I basically just ignored it.

Immediatly assuming it was a psionicist though? That's just irritatingly bad.

[Raptor_Dan]

Am I the only one who has made my char have a random thought that seemed out of char, then went on a mission to learn to shield their mind better, because they suspected the thought came from a mindbender, when in reality, I needed solo RP fodder?

[Jihelu]

Am I the only one who has made my char have a random thought that seemed out of char, then went on a mission to learn to shield their mind better, because they suspected the thought came from a mindbender, when in reality, I needed solo RP fodder?

I do the same thing but for twinking steal.
*This is a joke I think

[Raptor_Dan]

Am I the only one who has made my char have a random thought that seemed out of char, then went on a mission to learn to shield their mind better, because they suspected the thought came from a mindbender, when in reality, I needed solo RP fodder?

I do the same thing but for twinking steal.
*This is a joke I think

What you said, or what I said, because I was totally serious. It's a thing that happens to me IRL, intrusive thoughts, so at one point in time, during my 'let's rp mental illnesses' phase, I had a relatively normal char whom this happened to at different points.

[Jingo]

Am I the only one who has made my char have a random thought that seemed out of char, then went on a mission to learn to shield their mind better, because they suspected the thought came from a mindbender, when in reality, I needed solo RP fodder?

I do the same thing but for twinking steal.
*This is a joke I think

What you said, or what I said, because I was totally serious. It's a thing that happens to me IRL, intrusive thoughts, so at one point in time, during my 'let's rp mental illnesses' phase, I had a relatively normal char whom this happened to at different points.

Everyone gets these. But what is interesting, is that coming to the conclusion that someone else is planting thoughts in your mind is a marker for certain types of schizophrenia.

[Harmless]

A few years ago I think staff or maybe a mindworm forced thoughts/imagery related to prior traumatic events my character had experienced. It happened at least twice; in each case it was during a time of stress, causing my character to respond with a kind of re-experiencing of the initial horror of the event. This would often slightly worry anyone who might be around her at the time.  Because the flashbacks were based in something my character already saw, felt, or knew of, there was never any thought in my character's mind that I was being mindwormed, nor did I as a player think that was the case. As a player I was pretty sure a staff member observing the plot was doing it to add flavor to the scene. It was pretty awesome, whatever the case, and I'm of the opinion that in general such things are awesome.

With a much older criminal character I had who was a thuggish murderer, a mindworm/staffer once popped in and seemed to try and amplify the anger my character was experiencing over some feud he was stuck in. It seemed like there was some intent behind it, though; such as to cause my character to go berserk. The feelings kept getting more and more violent, like "You feel the urge to pound your head into a wall" or something, which wasn't normal for this criminal's behavior. The invasive feelings ended shortly after my character became confused at his steadily building rage, asking himself, "What am I, a fuckin mul all of a sudden?" The experience was weird but didn't make my character go on a mindworm witch-hunt. Instead I think he blamed the booze he had been drinking, or some spice he had done from earlier, and went on with his life.

I am glad to have had the above two experiences and think that in many situations, certain character types and situations really benefit from a little added (subconscious) thought.

[Lizzie]

Harmless everything you say makes sense, and is something that would cause your character confusion - but -would- be entirely possible without "outside" interference.

In the case of my characters, it went something like this:

My PC: think Man I can't stand Amos, I wish he'd stop asking me for a drink in private.
10 seconds later:
Sudden thought that I didn't type and enter: >You suddenly want to get jiggy with Amos.
my PC's response: "Why'd I even think that? Makes no sense. He's disgusting and I've been hating on him for a month already because he undermined my authority twice in public."
10 seconds later:
Sudden thought that I didn't type and enter: >You really want to jump his bones and be his mate forever.
my PC: Clearly someone is trying to manipulate my mind, because this urge makes zero sense given my absolute loathing of this guy. Plus, he's not good looking, nor is he my type, even if he didn't try to get me demoted twice already now.

Second situation:
eat steak
Oooh good food.
eat steak
>You are no longer hungry.
think But it's goooood..I'll finish it.
taste steak;taste steak;taste steak
score: You are stuffed.
Sudden thought in my character's head: >You're hungry and would like some steak.
my pc: "..."

[perfecto]

Hahaha These are priceless responses to my OP question to the Imms I just wanted to clarify that my idea was to poke the minds of idol PC's with flavor, not to insinuate insanity lol

And, on that note.. a joke for all of you.

Unless you've already heard the one about the three sorcerers on the shield wall?

So the first Sorc says yeah last week I pitted my best warrior against my best flutist.. poor thing got three of her fingers cut off!  But with a little dust, n, spit, blood n, you know.. I got those fingers reatached and two weeks later she's playing like the wind!

Second Sorc says Pshhh that's nothing.. Last week I had my favorite giant go and fetch me some of those sweet mountain fruits from you know where.. his poor ass fell most of the way down, ripped his leg clean off!  BUT, a little sand n, blood n, elf'gasm' gland and yep, got his leg right back on. Two weeks later he can climb like.. well I gave him a rope.

Third Sorc says Shiiiittt... Really?  Cause last week I was right out here on this edge with my prized fighter.. tall n blonde and handsome. He was riding his favorite Ox.   I remember cause he was staring right at me.. as he rode over the edge, I think he was a Byn   at some time.. Anyways!  Took me a day an a bit to get down there to find em, and they was just splattered.. just bits n pieces ya know?  But ya know.. with a bit a sand, a templars heart,  a bunch a blood, a tuft of his blond hair, and a whack of  Ox ass...two weeks later, shit he's running for president.

[Miradus]

Everyone gets these. But what is interesting, is that coming to the conclusion that someone else is planting thoughts in your mind is a marker for certain types of schizophrenia.
[/quote

Heh. You know, I read this whole thread and was like, "Who would REALLY assume that some other person is planting thoughts in their head?"

My first thought was that everyone else is playing characters who are a lot smarter than I am. A random thought in my head, heck, how would I even notice?

[WithSprinkles]

I like the examples that are being listed here. Dialogs like this help a lot.

Some of the more.. I suppose I could say 'esoteric' features of the game that touch more mundane aspects of everyday life are sometimes a challenge to roll with. At least in my own experience. Sometimes I have zero idea how to roll with what I've been given by strange, intrusive thoughts and feelings, so every once in a while, I'm forced to ignore it or shrug it off. Not because I don't want t play along, but because of a lack of give and take.

Simple, easy to understand concepts and suggestions are a good way to get someone to listen to what you want in a speedy manner. If you confuse me on what you mean for me to do or your meanings are unclear, it's more likely you're going to freak me out character wise or take me out of my character's head. Where if you simply say, "Touch your nose." Or convince my character of a concept, "Red is now blue." We're now cooking with fire. People could tell my character up and down that the color they are seeing is red, but they would eventually just start thinking they have suddenly gone colorblind, or in a merchant, think they have bad taste. Devastating, but a small change. Slowly build to more invasive things with tiny tweaks and changes. Work up to the big stuff. Tell a story.

I've been guilty of leaping right to the investigative stage, but reading over this thread, I actually see how not doing so could be more fun. I know psions are supposed to be powerful, but remember give and take and that people may not always understand a complex concept right out the gate, so work patiently and you may get more happy, glaze-eyed zombies.

Just my thoughts on it.

[Riev]

I'm legit dirt-league tier when it comes to RP and thinks/feels, so usually Psis leave me alone. I almost always roll with it when they poke around, though, and on almost EVERY one its happened to, assumed I just have a headache.

Because mindworms are things your parents tell you to scare you into doing the right thing. If they -were- real, the Highlord would have dealt with them LONG ago.

[Reiloth]

I enjoy when Staff enhances thoughts or feels that I am already having. It takes nuance to get right -- I had a PC, Lantry, who was a Byn Sergeant that had flashbacks of a friend, Clay, who died on a mission in a horrible fashion to Gith (Think Scalping, Mutilation). Lantry was the only survivor (because he ran away, but the Byn didn't know that at the time, or didn't do anything about it). This was all a virtual backdrop. However, I had Biographies that detailed all of this that Staff read up on it seemed, and when I had flashbacks using feels/thinks, they would add little accentuations that fell in line with what I was doing, without dictating the scene or changing the feel. Clay might ask him 'Why didn't you save me' or call him a coward for running away. All of these things were already in my Biographies of previous flashbacks, so they fit right in.

Forcing a random thought, or feeling, however, i'm not really that comfortable with. It isn't good Storytelling. Imagine if your GM during a game said 'You feel scared' or 'You think he's disgusting'. You'd probably find that pretty alienating. However, if the GM is creative and presents you with a situation they know will gross you out, or will make you scared or your PC scared, they've done a good job in my book. It takes finesse to figure this out, but forcing someone to feel one way or the other, or to have a random thought or another, can be sort of violating and intrusive to RP, rather than catering to and encouraging RP.

Zalanthans know that Mindworms are real -- They know that they can manipulate your thoughts, make you turn on your lover or best friend, maybe even make you stab a knife into a Templar. But would a normal Joe Shmoe be so vain as to think a mindworm would be messing with them? Probably not. But I wouldn't put it past a high-powered Aide or Agent to think those manipulative 'other thoughts' are not their own, or are a little fishy. A Mindworm has to be careful in these instances, and know their audience so to speak. A PC Psion is (I think) one of the hardest if not the hardest roles to play in ArmageddonMUD. There's no real guide or 'how to', and so much of how you portray it is nuanced and requires Staff conversation to make sure you are on the right track, way moreso than with Defilers/Scary Magickers, etc.

[Iiyola]

In the past my PC was manipulated for instance in a time when she was angry at PC A cause he did something bad. She'd start an argument, and then suddenly she thought stuff like: "Oh well... maybe he's not so bad. I've been too harsh, etc etc" Not her own thoughts. But I went with it anyway because I find, when there's an argument, there is always that nagging feeling that you might be wrong. Even though you don't want to admit it.

Also with other PC's I just played as if I didn't know what a PSI is, or that these stories were just a fairy tale. PSI's are awesome and should be thrown a bone. People who immediately sense there's some other being in their minds and just KNOW it's a psionicist mostly want to win the game. I find, unless you've been taught thoroughly IC what a PSI can do and how they work, you shouldn't be able to sense there's something weird going on.

There are certain physical discomforts that can happen at any time. That doesn't mean your char immediately knows there's something weird going on.

I just LOVE when PSI's find my PC's mind and toy around. It's great being manipulated and I think it's a huge part of the game.

[manipura]

I've had a couple occasions where the mindworm messing with me has been very off the mark with the thoughts they were making my PC think, just completely missing the mark.  It can be a bit jarring when it's completely out of character, like Lizzie's example of being attracted to someone she hated, or Harmless and his criminal having feelings of wanting to bash his head against the wall.  I've always gone the same route as Harmless though...thinking/recognizing that this is out of the ordinary and not something I'd ever thought before, then chalking it up to any number of reasons: being tired, stressed out, drunk or spiced etc. 
It seems odd to me that anyone would think that the average Zalanthan would never consider that an out-of-the-ordinary thought would be a mindworm or someone manipulating them.  I actually asked staff about this sort of thing, because there was a period when it seemed like a lot of PCs were suddenly deciding they were being messed with, and the response was basically "Common knowledge of mindbenders would be vague superstitions.  They're bad scary things but no one can really grasp the limits of what trickery they do. Most Zalanthans would never expect their thoughts to be manipulated by an outsider and would obviously consider all thoughts to be their own."

I think I find it more jarring to suddenly have some average Amos claiming there's a mindworm around, because they thought things they wouldn't normally think, than it would be to have those uncharacteristic thoughts myself.

Like Iiyola, I quite like when a mindworm starts messing with me.  I try to go with it, with my own thinks and feels that sort of expand on the original manipulation, even if it started with a thought that was very uncharacteristic.

[In Dreams]

I quite like when a mindworm starts messing with me.  I try to go with it, with my own thinks and feels that sort of expand on the original manipulation, even if it started with a thought that was very uncharacteristic.

I was going to post basically this, so I'm being lazy! 

I have no idea how in the world someone would detect that their thoughts weren't genuine so I assume it's not really for most PCs to ever detect. My PC thinks something, I'm going with it even if it's not good for them and even if it's not something I wrote into the console. Giving up control can be a lot of fun in roleplay. I recommend it very highly!

[nauta]

Heheh.

I'm glad the above shows my intuitions were off -- I've probably just been dealing with Descartes' daemon for too long.

When I first started getting thoughts sent to my client that I didn't type out, my initial intuition was that these would somehow 'feel' alien to my character.  However, I sent a report in to staff before I did anything about it IG, and they basically said what you'all are saying above: you couldn't feel a difference in the thinking, although the content of the thoughts might lead to the inference that you were being fucked with.

[Marauder Moe]

I, too, have had a mindworm try to get my character to bury his axe in the head of a close and trusted friend.

Some mindworms have perhaps misunderstood that injecting a thought is not the same as mind control.  I think you'll have much more success getting players to roll with it if you're subtle, clever, and persistent.

I think this and other supernatural abilities with heavy roleplay components (healing magick!!!) need expanded help file entries that define their non-coded capabilities and how to properly roleplay them.

Also, I do kinda like the idea of staff messing with player's heads more often to help "legitimize" intrusive thoughts.