The Gem

[nauta]

Hi,

How visible is the gem that a magicker wears?  The reason I ask: You can't codedly wear anything over it, so I assumed it was quite visible -- hence, I used to change tdesc in order to hide the one on my magicker (if I was going into the field).  However, I looked at one the other day, and they are described as quite small, and dangling off the end of a necklace.

So, question: would the gem be something we notice first on a magicker and usually only missed if covered up -- as in it is there, in your face, obvious?  Or is the gem something more subtle that could be missed, when e.g., a gorget is being worn, or a scarf?

[Jihelu]

I imagine hiding a gem would be rather easy though I've been told by staff before that touching it just causes instant pain.(Atleast I think I recall this)

Which I find hard to believe, otherwise you'd walk, stop, the gem would bump into your chest, then you'd be filled with pain.
Take off shirt. Pain.
Etc.



I feel like codedly you should be wear things over it but I imagine that maybe doing that might make you codedly ungemmed? Because of some weird 'out of sight out of mind' thing.
Idk

[Synthesis]

Realistically, it's something that could be concealed easily enough.  If you tdesc that in Allanak, prepare for consequences.  If you tdesc it outside of Allanak, everyone's going to ignore it.

As a matter of practicality for game play, you might as well assume it's as obvious as a fruit-basket headdress, because that's how basically everyone is going to respond to it.

[LauraMars]

I always pictured it as a choker, not a long dangling thing that could easily be hidden by the folds of your robe or abaya or dishdashah or thobe or whatever the kids are wearing these days.

You can still hide a choker though. 

I don't think it causes pain if you touch it. That doesn't make sense.

[Jingo]

It's visible to anyone that uses the look command. Most 'nakkis likely check for a gem as a necessary habit too.

Generally people check equipment lists before tdescs though. So it can lead to some awkward situations where the gem is covered in the tdesc but the viewer doesn't notice. I'm usually fine with retconning that interaction once the the gemmer player corrects in an emote or something.

[nauta]

Here's one thought, if you want to make it realistic but also fit in with the coded reality of the thing:

1. If tdesc hidden, obey tdesc.
2. If not tdesc hidden, and in city: duh, it's obvious.  Has to be.
3. If not tdesc hidden, and out in the field: then its that weird blackness (it's described as absorbing all light or something) draws the eye to the gem, so it's noticeable even if they are wearing gorgets and things like this.  Plus the choker -- I think the string is described as being fairly short, so it would be a bit more like a choker, so up under the chin.

[Large Hero]

Some of my personal gem RP habits:

- my PCs usually will not notice it if the gemmed is making some effort to conceal it, such as a scarf

- even if it is unconcealed, my PCs will tend not to notice the gem unless they're speaking to or otherwise paying attention to the gemmed character. If my PC just glances at a gemmed in the street, I won't mentally file the character as gemmed

- My patriotic/fearful Allanaki commoners may report to the AoD a gemmed who is being too friendly with decent people, or who is making an effort to conceal the gem and is discovered

- if I'm playing a gemmed, and I've tried to conceal it, I don't get bent out of shape if another PC chooses to notice it.  That'd be trying to force the other player to conform to my opinion/ideas, since the gem remains visible according to the code.

[manipura]

Realistically, it's something that could be concealed easily enough.  If you tdesc that in Allanak, prepare for consequences.  If you tdesc it outside of Allanak, everyone's going to ignore it.

As a matter of practicality for game play, you might as well assume it's as obvious as a fruit-basket headdress, because that's how basically everyone is going to respond to it.

I vote that we change the gems to elaborate fruit-baskets, worn on the head and too big to be covered by any sort of hood.

[Riev]

Realistically, it's something that could be concealed easily enough.  If you tdesc that in Allanak, prepare for consequences.  If you tdesc it outside of Allanak, everyone's going to ignore it.

As a matter of practicality for game play, you might as well assume it's as obvious as a fruit-basket headdress, because that's how basically everyone is going to respond to it.

I vote that we change the gems to elaborate fruit-baskets, worn on the head and too big to be covered by any sort of hood.

I vote it gets turned into a circlet that magickally clamps down when it senses magicker blood. Sure you could wear a hood to 'hide' it but it will always be visible. Sucking the light from any clothing or hat you try to wear over it.

Put it right in the middle of the forehead, like some twisted inverse-bindi.

[Marauder Moe]

I once made a thread asking if it was illegal for gemmed to grow long beards.  I did not receive an answer before it was locked.

[Delirium]

I once made a thread asking if it was illegal for gemmed to grow long beards.  I did not receive an answer before it was locked.

[nauta]

This might work?  Although I like to imagine that the light-absorbing properties absorbing up all light so it creates a black hole in any beard.

[LauraMars]

I once made a thread asking if it was illegal for gemmed to grow long beards.  I did not receive an answer before it was locked.

[whitt]

I vote that we change the gems to elaborate fruit-baskets, worn on the head and too big to be covered by any sort of hood.

Lol.

[Lizzie]

Put it this way: In Allanak, attempting to obscure the gem is subject to arrest, death, fines, or whatever the current Templar feels like imposing on the violator. It's against the rules, ICly. So ICly, people have a reason to gripe if they see you're doing that. And it's not hard to say "yes Lord Templar, when she raised her arm to wave at Amos coming in from the road, her gem moved on her throat and I was able to notice it for a moment. She's definitely trying to hide that thing, and I saw it, for absolute positive."

Outside the city, there's nothing stopping you from trying, no IC rules against it. The same problem can crop up though - ICly, people might tell other people that they ran across a gemmer who was intentionally trying to hide his gem. And then, since there's no laws protecting the Gemmed outside the city - you'd be subject to being hunted down JUST because you tried to hide your gem.

Some people will RP not seeing it. Some will RP catching a glimpse of it. Some people won't even bother to read your mdesc and tdesc, and focus only on your "wearing" - and see the gem and respond to it.

You can't dictate what other people will respond to. You can only dictate your own actions.

[Armaddict]

I have roleplayed seeing the gem instantly.  I have also roleplayed not seeing it all and feeling very conflicted when it was noticed, regardless of whether they were actively hiding it or not.

I think actively trying to hide it within the city would be a no-no.  Not necessarily by law, but one of those things that would get twisted into a villainous act by someone more powerful than you because it was convenient.  And I don't find that particularly bad.  Wear 'em proud, boys and girls, you're a templar-tool!

[nauta]

I guess related to the question:

What does something that 'completely absorbs any light directed at it' look like?  (Might've gone in the What does ... look like thread? I guess.)

In researching this with google, I found this hilarious video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt7v_ZAGEYk

The drop at 1:13(ish) is just perfect.

[Narana]

I always just took it to mean it looked 'dull' as in, without any reflected light or shimmer, no matter how hard Sun-krath's rays might be shinning on it.

[Jihelu]

I always just took it to mean it looked 'dull' as in, without any reflected light or shimmer, no matter how hard Sun-krath's rays might be shinning on it.

It mentions that it straight absorbs light.

[Raptor_Dan]

I've had many opportunities to RP hiding my gem, and reacting to others doing it.

- I've tdesced hiding it, and have had people ignore it, as if it was hidden, others have spotted it and reacted, some spotted it, then ooc'ed 'oops, ignore that reaction'.

-I've been around gemmed who have hidden it and I've played along, almost every time. There was one time that my char 'saw it', responded, we interacted, and only later did I see the tdesc, but the RP was already there, and (seemingly) fun for both of us, so I pretended I just saw it when they moved or shifted, instead of retconning the whole scene.



Goes literally any way that it could, depending on people involved.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Lol So good. That video is priceless.

[The Lonely Hunter]

While I think that the gem in the currently described state should be able to be hidden somehow, I don't think believe that using a tdesc to get around the fact that it can't be is appropriate.

That sort of reminds me of when people drop items to put symbolic messages in the sand (a bone length is here next to a drawing of a circle in the dust) instead of using "scribble".

[Jihelu]

While I think that the gem in the currently described state should be able to be hidden somehow, I don't think believe that using a tdesc to get around the fact that it can't be is appropriate.

That sort of reminds me of when people drop items to put symbolic messages in the sand (a bone length is here next to a drawing of a circle in the dust) instead of using "scribble".

Well.
Scribble is kind of crappy.
Same with being unable to hide the gem.

[Narana]

Out of curiosity, are there things that hide what you are wearing about the throat that fail to hide the gem in specific, or is it that nothing worn about the throat can be hidden by anything else?

[650Booger]

going to make a Wheel of Time reference here, bare with me.  If you have not read it, stop reading this and go read it now.

I think of the gem like the A'dam used by the Seanchan.  A magical collar that once put on, can never be taken off.  the gemmed can touch it, play with it, even cover it up.  but the very -thought- of trying to remove it would cause agonizing pain throughout the entire body.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Well.
Scribble is kind of crappy.
Same with being unable to hide the gem.

That doesn't give people the liberty to make up their own ways around the code - like giving sparring weapons to NPCs and forcing them to spar.

[Jihelu]

Well.
Scribble is kind of crappy.
Same with being unable to hide the gem.

That doesn't give people the liberty to make up their own ways around the code - like giving sparring weapons to NPCs and forcing them to spar.

There's a large difference between that and using arrange on a dagger.

[evilcabbage]

there is an immense difference between wearing a scarf on your neck that would REALISTICALLY be able to be draped over a gem, and giving sparring weapons to an npc to spar with them.

stop trying to pretend like they're breaking some kind of rule just because they're using tdesc AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED in situations where their gear may be arranged in a specific manner.

[Narana]

I find myself agreeing with a cabbage.

What a day.

[Hauwke]

Ive never has the oppurtunity to even wear one of the gems IG, i plan to in the near future if the karma gods are good to me or I can spec app something nice.

Back on topic:
Perhaps we do in fact need a way to codedly hide it if people get so very upset about tdesc being used the way I see it as meant to be used.

[a french mans shirt]

You can app a pc who isn't a witch but was tricked somehow into believing they were and got gemmed. Go ahead and try it, then hide that shit all day long.

[evilcabbage]

i don't think that is necessarily a good idea, but i think i heard about it happening once before?

[Jihelu]

There is a very obvious way to see if you are an actual witch when you have a gem.
That is all.

[manipura]

there is an immense difference between wearing a scarf on your neck that would REALISTICALLY be able to be draped over a gem, and giving sparring weapons to an npc to spar with them.

stop trying to pretend like they're breaking some kind of rule just because they're using tdesc AS IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED in situations where their gear may be arranged in a specific manner.

Sometimes my issue isn't so much with tdesc being used to realistically describe something obscuring the gem...it's when someone's actions and equipment in no way imply there is something covering the gem, but the tdesc says there is.
I've seen tdescs implying that a scarf is over someone's gem...and looking at them their neck slot is open.  They don't even have a scarf or bandana in their inventory that they're using.  Or they have a necklace or some other neck item that they are actively emoting with (usually a necklace or some kind of trinket) ...but their tdesc implies something is draped over the entire area obscuring things.

If you want to be hiding your gem, that's fine...get a scarf or bandana or some sort of wrap and wear it around your neck.  If what you can track down isn't actually wearable around your neck, have it in your inventory or something.  Then make your tdesc explain that an item around your neck is draped to obscure the gem around your throat.  When there are common items in game to serve the purpose you're describing, I think it's reasonable to expect someone to use those items.  And when I see someone who has made an effort to use items to support their more elaborate tdesc, I'm more inclined to go along with things.

[path]

I think it's sort've like a bindi. Particularly if you're Allanaki, you're culturally highly likely to take note of it, even at first glance.

If you're from elsewhere, you might not even know what the gem means. That's probably how I would play it. When in doubt, I up my character's ignorance.

[evilcabbage]

at this point everybody knows what the gem is because it has been around for so long that almost nobody has any reason not to know.

particularly since the gemmed presence is literally almost everywhere. they go all over. that people wouldn't know of the gem only speaks to them being new to the game.

someone else can say otherwise (staff), but until then... if you've played the game at all, you kind of know what the gem is by now.

[Lizzie]

cabbage that is completely not true. There exists an entire city, where the vast majority of its citizens might have heard "gem" exists, but have never seen one and wouldn't recognize that's what it was if they saw it. They might think it's just some unattractive jewelry. Most PCs who start out in Morins are either Tuluk citizens, or northern-born citizens, who again - might certainly have heard of the gem, but have never actually seen one and wouldn't recognize that's what it was if they saw it.

Some tribals might have heard of "the gemmed" of Allanak but have zero idea of what it means, and wouldn't know it involved a chunk of obsidian hanging from a rope around someone's neck. Afterall, obsidian isn't a gem. It's a hunk of hardened lava. It's not even technically a rock, it's glass. Anyone living near the volcano would absolutely not recognize the obsidian chunk around someone's neck as a gem. They wouldn't equate the two. They might think - oh, what a stupid use for this rock, they make better arrowheads - but I'm not seeing anyone with a diamond around their neck so where's the gemmed guy I was warned about?

The universal knowledge of the gem is an OOC knowledge, not an IC knowledge. Anyone from Allanak would know. Anyone from Red Storm would know. Anyone -from- Luir's would know, but only some who *visit* Luir's would know. Beyond that, it's not "universal" knowledge that "the obsidian chunk hanging from the guy's neck is the "gem" I've heard about."

[evilcabbage]

you mean an entire city where the vast majority of the citizens are told of the horrors of the allanaki gemmed and the awful magick they employ, and how to identify said gemmed so they can report them to their local templar or eliminate them immediately? because that seems more likely than an entire city -not- knowing that allanak employs a force of terror that caused untold destruction to their beloved city.

[Lizzie]

you mean an entire city where the vast majority of the citizens are told of the horrors of the allanaki gemmed and the awful magick they employ, and how to identify said gemmed so they can report them to their local templar or eliminate them immediately? because that seems more likely than an entire city -not- knowing that allanak employs a force of terror that caused untold destruction to their beloved city.

No, most people in/from the city are -not- told how to identify the gem. Most are told "there is no threat, everything is fine, move along, citizen" and their Legions are told how to identify the gem. Most people in/from the city are not Legionairres. In fact, most people in/from the city aren't even employed by any of the noble houses. Most are just commoners. And most PCs who are in/from the north, inked northerners, are -not- employees of any northern house, and aren't born from parents who are employees of any northern house, so even their own parents are not likely to have learned how to identify the gem. They would've certainly learned that Allanak employs a force of terror, but the events you refer to occurred before some of them were born, and many of them were too young to understand what was going on.

If you're from the north and you see someone wearing a gem, it is POSSIBLE BUT NOT LIKELY that you would recognize its significance. If you do recognize its significance, you should make sure your character has reason to know, because recognition of a gem is likely to attract the attention of the local law enforcement. "How do you know it's a mage's gem? You've seen them before eh? How many gemmers have you hung out with? Are you sleeping with one? You must've gotten pretty close to them to be able to tell it wasn't just some carved black necklace, but instead, a mage's gem. How close DID you get to this person, anyway?"

[evilcabbage]

"for thousands of years these gemmed have existed, many hundreds upon thousands of hunters have seen them and noted their existence to cities and merchants near and far, but this entire city experiences a five-hundred year mindwipe to ensure nobody ever remembers the bounties places on gemmed or the hunters who talked about gem-wearing folks harassing those outside the city".

sound preposterous? it kind of does to me too. i don't really buy into your theory or explanation of things. something that big would be known by most everybody because it's been so prevalent and discussed all over the place. it's almost impossible to 'not' know something like that.

[Raptor_Dan]

"for thousands of years these gemmed have existed, many hundreds upon thousands of hunters have seen them and noted their existence to cities and merchants near and far, but this entire city experiences a five-hundred year mindwipe to ensure nobody ever remembers the bounties places on gemmed or the hunters who talked about gem-wearing folks harassing those outside the city".

sound preposterous? it kind of does to me too. i don't really buy into your theory or explanation of things. something that big would be known by most everybody because it's been so prevalent and discussed all over the place. it's almost impossible to 'not' know something like that.

For above average intelligence? Maybe, maybe, but I live in a place where 'Muslims' are ostracized, attacked, demands to deport them come from everywhere, and they're murdered. Hell, down here in the south, they still set black churches on fire. But for all of this muslim hate, few people actually know the difference between eastern indian and middle-eastern, the turban one nationality wears, and the turban a specific religion wears.

I get that there isn't as much diversity and culture IG as out in the RL, but people are still jack-headed, ignorant idiots. In fact, ignorance is kind of one of those things people actively enforce and promote.

I've been playing for years, and ooc'ly, I still don't recognize some clan insignia. I'd like to think it's okay if my PC's don't, either. Same with the gem. I do get your point, though, I just think it's close to the line.

[Armaddict]

I agree that there would be a fair mix of people who are aware, and people who are unaware to a degree.  There's information mixing based on who your social circles are, and the VNPC population that the PC population rises out of can be pretty diverse and self-centered on their own struggle against the known.

I don't think hiding it would be unusual given how the gemmed are treated, but I think that it being hidden would make for a lot more fucked up reactions (having things kind of sprung on you like that can be weird, but settle into a nice internal conflict story) upon discovery.  There's a lot of influences on how things go, and I consider the documentation to be the 'base position' for -most- starting PC's, but then with IC experiences shaping them from thereon out, with obvious filtered lenses applied as necessary to the character.  I also think proud servants of the templarate would probably not hide it due to the company they keep (if it can be bent into an attempt to deceive in some fucked up way, the templarate/noble/upper crust crowd is not the people you want accusing you of such.  Better to just take the treatment of gemmers than have it insinuated you're trying to fool them).

I don't think it would be odd to play someone from outside of allanak who is less aware of things, though I always find the ones who have no stigma attached to magick altogether to be a little jarring.  Whether it be positive or negative, I think all cultures of Zalanthas have some idea of how they view magick, and as cabbage said, people with access to 'civilized, non-tribal' parts of the Known probably have at least heard of the gem, though it may be much different visually in their head.  I do not, however, think that it should be instantly recognizeable to everyone all the time the further away from Allanak you get.  I was involved in a tribal scene once where a gemmed was explaining their relationship to the gem with a small group of elves where they had their own magickers, and the idea of gemming them was a strange concept when the gem's purpose was described.  Fun things.

[Jihelu]

Lets see.


People in Luir's, unless this is some ic info or something then just edit it but it seems like something you'd probably know, let gemmed/magickers run around if they know you are a magicker so they can watch your ass.
So the gem would work there.
So that checks off Luir's.

People up north religiously hate magick and are at war/were at war with the south.
I imagine that people in the Levy saw gemmed in fights, people who were throwing magick.
I imagine it would be common knowledge so you can avoid/kill them if you see them.
Where there goes the North.


Tribals:
Varies.

Redstorm:
I imagine it's pretty obvious since most of them hate Nak.

Cenyr:
Lel

Everything else:
Dunno.


I feel like explaining what the gem does, as a gemmed, to someone clueless would be an easy way to make friends, especially if they are tribal and accepting of gemmed.
"Oh yeah, it just means I have magick and that people in the city know I have magick so they wont be scared of me/leave me alone"
tribal: "Oh cool we have magick to lets be friends" and then they skip away.

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this but I feel like the Gem = More identifiable than noble house markings.

[The Lonely Hunter]

"...they wont be scared of me/leave me alone"

I'm sorry but it is hard to tell - was this meant as sarcasm? If so, please ignore the rest of this post.

I don't believe that having a gem would make a commoner less frightened of them. The gem is direct conformation that this person is a dangerous abomination that can cause:

-you to loose at gambling
-your neighbor's cousin disappear
-you to suffer from various physical ailments
-you to be swallowed up by the ground
-to be overly thirsty
-you to have a training accident

...and that is without even trying. Imagine if they didn't like you. Now your junk is falling off, a sandstorm is ripping the flesh from your bones, your home burns down, your family gets silt-lung, or you die some other horrible way. There is absolutely no reason to trust a magicker or not be afraid of them. They are not your buddies, they are evil and want to eat your entrails or steal your children. I heard the argument before that "if they sit at the bar with me for days on end I'll get less afraid of them because they proved that they aren't a threat". That is complete BS. If you are sitting at the bar with someone you -know- is a magicker...you're doing it wrong.

Of course, there may be exceptions. Just like there are IRL - perhaps you are the equivalent to that rare albino siamese twin with six fingers on each hand.

If you find a reason to trust or be nice to magickers please feel free to point it out in the documentation and correct me. Perhaps a current staff member could chime in on this thread as well.

[Lizzie]

Lonely Hunter, I disagree with you on the general principal of your post (not the specifics). This is an INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game. It isn't a single-shooter. Showing up in a bar as a gemmed mage shouldn't be considered out of the ordinary. There are VNPC gemmed mages already in the bar, and VNPC non-mages relaxing, enjoying their drinks. If you feel so strongly that you should NEVER intentionally hang out in the same room as a gemmed mage, then maybe you should stop bringing your characters into ANY public places, except perhaps Red's, the Atrium, and the Arboretum. And even with Red's there are times when gemmed mages are tolerated there.

The Gaj has northerners, rinthis, half-elves. The scum of the planet hangs out at the Gaj on a regular basis. No reason to expect to NOT see a gemmed mage at any given moment. Your character knows the gemmed is an abomination, but your character ALSO knows that the gemmer knows he is under the Highlord's strict control and if he pulls any shenanigans he will pay for it with his life.

An uneasy truce, perhaps - is what you should expect at the very worst, in the Gaj or any other public place (except perhaps Red's, the Atrium, and the Arboretum). Begrudging acceptance of their existence is the most likely result of public interaction, with the very rare occurrence of actively "getting along."

[The Lonely Hunter]

An "INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game" that happens to be a RPI where magickers are distrusted and hated. When I referenced the 'bar' I didn't mean the building itself, I assume there are some who visit the Gaj. I meant at the actual bar. If magickers vNPCs are in the Gaj I imagine they are sitting alone or with other gemmed (in pairs or trios, larger groups would likely make people too nervous) at some dark table in the back.

[nauta]

Not to take sides -- I'm not sure where the disagreement is here -- but just FYI, there is an echo in the Gaj that states that a gemmed figure sits at the bar, and when she does other patrons grumble and leave the bar for other tables.

I find it jarring to see gemmed and non-gemmed interacting without any display of fear or distrust.  As well, I find it very odd to see a gemmed get upset at someone for being afraid/distrusting/avoiding them.  (But I don't know who I agree with between LH and Lizzie.)

[Riev]

An "INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game" that happens to be a RPI where magickers are distrusted and hated. When I referenced the 'bar' I didn't mean the building itself, I assume there are some who visit the Gaj. I meant at the actual bar. If magickers vNPCs are in the Gaj I imagine they are sitting alone or with other gemmed (in pairs or trios, larger groups would likely make people too nervous) at some dark table in the back.

And often times, when the PC attention shifts as it always does, AoD will come in and tell that gemmed to get off -their- bar stool, or some rough and tumble Bynner will berate them and threaten calling a Templar because that gemmed is trying to curse the food.

Its the "If you're sitting at a bar with a known gemmed you're doing it wrong" that is the incendiary comment. The Gaj is for everyone. If the gemmed is sitting at the bar, and you are too, you are well within your rights to ignore them, move your seat further away, decide you want to leave, decide you want to hit them, or anything.

But I think you'll get a lot of reaction on the "you're doing it wrong" portion. Most especially when considering that some of these gemmed are KNOWN to work for the Templarate or even the Highborn Nobility. Who are you to decide that House Oash, those noble few, are 'wrong' or 'disgusting' for using the gemmed the way they do?

[Jihelu]

@ Hunter
I meant in the few scenarios in which you meet a tribal that
A: Doesn't know about the gem AND
B: Probably has a tribe that has magickers of their own.
Also probably
C: Doesn't hate Nak

[nauta]

@ Hunter
I meant in the few scenarios in which you meet a tribal that
A: Doesn't know about the gem AND
B: Probably has a tribe that has magickers of their own.
Also probably
C: Doesn't hate Nak

While it is possible to be part of a non-coded tribe (and less possible in the coded tribes) to not know what the gem is, at least in the coded tribes I've been in there are plenty of stories of nasty things that those that wear the gem have done, so this knowledge -- what the gem is, what it represents, and what it looks like -- would be part of the background.  That said, it's possible to play a character as part of a non-coded tribe, or even from the rinth, or from Morin's, who does not know much about what the gem is or how to recognize it.

My original question, however, was more about the -look- of the gem itself -- if, say, in a storm or a dimly lit bar, this would be something that 'stands out' on the gemmed (provided they have no tdesc otherwise masking it).  It sounds like the answer is that the gem is sort of noticeable (being all light-absorbing) but not in an in-your-face sort of way, so you could play it either way: maybe you didn't notice the gem that encounter, and maybe you did the next.

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

[Pale Horse]

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

Forgive me if I've missed something along the way, but are you meaning RP-Kosher or IG-Legal-Kosher?

On the one hand, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to role-play having a scarf or something covering the gem.  But you do have to keep in mind that this IS a MUD and the "physical" code will often times trump your non-coded role-play..unless people go along with it.

On the other hand, the legality of covering the gem will vary from location to location and from person to person.  In Luir's?  Declared yourself to Kurac by showing it off/telling them what you are?  The Fist sergeant or House Agent might be fine with you covering the thing the next few times you're through the Outpost.  After all, you already let them know.  However, the other Sergeant or Agent might not be cool with it and say that you're violating Outpost law by not keeping in view and may give you the option to drop the covering, or just cart you off to the jails.  It's the same option Templars have in Allanak and I have had personal experience from Gemmed-past who faced this exact situation.

[Dunetrade55]

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

Forgive me if I've missed something along the way, but are you meaning RP-Kosher or IG-Legal-Kosher?

On the one hand, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to role-play having a scarf or something covering the gem.  But you do have to keep in mind that this IS a MUD and the "physical" code will often times trump your non-coded role-play..unless people go along with it.

On the other hand, the legality of covering the gem will vary from location to location and from person to person.  In Luir's?  Declared yourself to Kurac by showing it off/telling them what you are?  The Fist sergeant or House Agent might be fine with you covering the thing the next few times you're through the Outpost.  After all, you already let them know.  However, the other Sergeant or Agent might not be cool with it and say that you're violating Outpost law by not keeping in view and may give you the option to drop the covering, or just cart you off to the jails.  It's the same option Templars have in Allanak and I have had personal experience from Gemmed-past who faced this exact situation.

Before the pelvis wearloc, my PCs got called out several times for their choice of underwear. After enduring this a while, I called it out, and staff informed me that however a player wishes to view that bit of code is legit... even if it was as rediculous as wearing a speedo outside my spandex like I was fricking superman or some shit.

EDIT: Except substitute pants for skirt or dress at times... it really does seem like some players take X-ray vision as far as they'd like, perhaps they should be ICly held accountable for possessing x-ray vision.

[nauta]

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

Forgive me if I've missed something along the way, but are you meaning RP-Kosher or IG-Legal-Kosher?

On the one hand, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to role-play having a scarf or something covering the gem.  But you do have to keep in mind that this IS a MUD and the "physical" code will often times trump your non-coded role-play..unless people go along with it.

On the other hand, the legality of covering the gem will vary from location to location and from person to person.  In Luir's?  Declared yourself to Kurac by showing it off/telling them what you are?  The Fist sergeant or House Agent might be fine with you covering the thing the next few times you're through the Outpost.  After all, you already let them know.  However, the other Sergeant or Agent might not be cool with it and say that you're violating Outpost law by not keeping in view and may give you the option to drop the covering, or just cart you off to the jails.  It's the same option Templars have in Allanak and I have had personal experience from Gemmed-past who faced this exact situation.

I meant the first hand there -- the fact that you can't codedly hide it might make it seem like you can't use tdesc to attempt to hide it.  But from what I can gather from the discussion above and its description, nothing suggests that you can't place a scarf over it (provided you have one in your inventory).  (I wouldn't get worked out of shape if someone missed the tdesc or chose to ignore it either -- I just don't think there's anything wrong with placing a scarf over it, based on what it is described as.)

Of course, I also agree: there will be IC consequences to doing this, which is your other hand.

[Dunetrade55]

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

Forgive me if I've missed something along the way, but are you meaning RP-Kosher or IG-Legal-Kosher?

On the one hand, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to role-play having a scarf or something covering the gem.  But you do have to keep in mind that this IS a MUD and the "physical" code will often times trump your non-coded role-play..unless people go along with it.

On the other hand, the legality of covering the gem will vary from location to location and from person to person.  In Luir's?  Declared yourself to Kurac by showing it off/telling them what you are?  The Fist sergeant or House Agent might be fine with you covering the thing the next few times you're through the Outpost.  After all, you already let them know.  However, the other Sergeant or Agent might not be cool with it and say that you're violating Outpost law by not keeping in view and may give you the option to drop the covering, or just cart you off to the jails.  It's the same option Templars have in Allanak and I have had personal experience from Gemmed-past who faced this exact situation.

I meant the first hand there -- the fact that you can't codedly hide it might make it seem like you can't use tdesc to attempt to hide it.  But from what I can gather from the discussion above and its description, nothing suggests that you can't place a scarf over it (provided you have one in your inventory).  (I wouldn't get worked out of shape if someone missed the tdesc or chose to ignore it either -- I just don't think there's anything wrong with placing a scarf over it, based on what it is described as.)

Of course, I also agree: there will be IC consequences to doing this, which is your other hand.

An easy coded workaround would be to have the neck wearloc cover the about throat wearloc and sit back and watch the chaos.

[Synthesis]

That would completely defeat the purpose of moving the gem to the <about throat> wear location, which was to allow gemmers to actually finally wear neck armor.

Back in the day, if you were gemmed, your entire neck was always completely exposed, which kinda sucked.

[Jihelu]

I also think that a tdesc masking a gem, providing you have the equipment to back it up, is 100% kosher.

Forgive me if I've missed something along the way, but are you meaning RP-Kosher or IG-Legal-Kosher?

On the one hand, I'd say that it's perfectly acceptable to role-play having a scarf or something covering the gem.  But you do have to keep in mind that this IS a MUD and the "physical" code will often times trump your non-coded role-play..unless people go along with it.

On the other hand, the legality of covering the gem will vary from location to location and from person to person.  In Luir's?  Declared yourself to Kurac by showing it off/telling them what you are?  The Fist sergeant or House Agent might be fine with you covering the thing the next few times you're through the Outpost.  After all, you already let them know.  However, the other Sergeant or Agent might not be cool with it and say that you're violating Outpost law by not keeping in view and may give you the option to drop the covering, or just cart you off to the jails.  It's the same option Templars have in Allanak and I have had personal experience from Gemmed-past who faced this exact situation.

For your first part.
I forget if it's Nakki law or something but hiding your gem is mega illegal, atleast in the city. I think.

[Marauder Moe]

On the one hand... maybe.  On the other hand... do you really think the purpose of the gem is to warn common scum that a particular person is a magicker?  Would the templars really care about that?

[Rokal]

An "INTERACTIVE MULTIPLAYER game" that happens to be a RPI where magickers are distrusted and hated. When I referenced the 'bar' I didn't mean the building itself, I assume there are some who visit the Gaj. I meant at the actual bar. If magickers vNPCs are in the Gaj I imagine they are sitting alone or with other gemmed (in pairs or trios, larger groups would likely make people too nervous) at some dark table in the back.

And often times, when the PC attention shifts as it always does, AoD will come in and tell that gemmed to get off -their- bar stool, or some rough and tumble Bynner will berate them and threaten calling a Templar because that gemmed is trying to curse the food.

Its the "If you're sitting at a bar with a known gemmed you're doing it wrong" that is the incendiary comment. The Gaj is for everyone. If the gemmed is sitting at the bar, and you are too, you are well within your rights to ignore them, move your seat further away, decide you want to leave, decide you want to hit them, or anything.

But I think you'll get a lot of reaction on the "you're doing it wrong" portion. Most especially when considering that some of these gemmed are KNOWN to work for the Templarate or even the Highborn Nobility. Who are you to decide that House Oash, those noble few, are 'wrong' or 'disgusting' for using the gemmed the way they do?

I have to agree with this, the idea of commoners that outright picking a fight with a gemmed in the gaj or telling them to get lost is when they're known tools of the templarate, not to mention, why would someone want to piss a gemmed off in the first place? unless you got good connections you won't know if that gemmed will hold a grudge.

hatred is well roleplayed, but sometimes i find the fear of the gemmed is lacking. its a matter of a character balancing fear with hate. wants to do X, but is scared Y will happen if they do thus they do Z instead.

[a french mans shirt]

I have to agree with this, the idea of commoners that outright picking a fight with a gemmed in the gaj or telling them to get lost is when they're known tools of the templarate, not to mention, why would someone want to piss a gemmed off in the first place? unless you got good connections you won't know if that gemmed will hold a grudge.

hatred is well roleplayed, but sometimes i find the fear of the gemmed is lacking. its a matter of a character balancing fear with hate. wants to do X, but is scared Y will happen if they do thus they do Z instead.

The gemmed are in a unique position, having overwhelming power to harm that is near that of Templars while being thousands of feet below elves on the social ladder, and a lot of newer players, including gemmed, don't seem to understand how to play this out (myself included, at one point.) I am NOT citing anything recent; always assume there are reasons. But that drovian who cracks a joke to a normal about being able to see through them? Yeah, I'd make my fright clear, unless you're kanking that gemmed. Or, especially if you are. Way them, psi Why the heck did you say that? We're trying not to draw attention to ourselves, remember?

One thing I've noticed tends to linger for players who haven't played a certain number of witches is that they treat witches as humans wearing jewelry and having unusual powers, rather than how the world sees them: as unnatural, filthy abominations that look like humans, and can speak and salt and eat and all those things, but have most likely lost their souls if they'd had any in the first place and may turn their ire on you at any second, and at that point, nothing will save you because by the time the witch is caught you will have already been killed.

[Reiloth]

Anything beyond the subtle snubs and eye movements and basic judgements flies in the face of a superstitious understanding of the mystic arts in Zalanthas. The Common Wo/Man believes that a Gemmed can look at them funny and cause them to lose a child, or give them impotence, or make their mate fall in love with someone else. We have to keep in mind as players that Magick doesn't begin and end with a spell list -- There is a virtual 'Magic' that is psychedelic, beyond mortal ken and understanding, and isn't 'coded'. Magic, to those who cannot cast it or understand it, believe a magicker is capable of anything.

The idea of a Common Wo/Man picking a fight with a Gemmed or calling them out in some macho way is...Stupid. Wanting them dead? Sure. Thinking it all to yourself? Sure. Not going out of your way to help a Gemmed that got shivved in the street at dusk? Not a problem. Taking your time to help a Gemmed who's apartment got broken into? Makes sense. Suddenly running out of that trade good a Gemmed is interested in? Happens all the time. Unable to find a Gemmed's order, even though it's in the warehouse? Things get misplaced.

The more we move away from the fart joke macho teenager mentality in the Gaj, and further into the subtle discrimination, the better.

[Lizzie]

Anything beyond the subtle snubs and eye movements and basic judgements flies in the face of a superstitious understanding of the mystic arts in Zalanthas. The Common Wo/Man believes that a Gemmed can look at them funny and cause them to lose a child, or give them impotence, or make their mate fall in love with someone else. We have to keep in mind as players that Magick doesn't begin and end with a spell list -- There is a virtual 'Magic' that is psychedelic, beyond mortal ken and understanding, and isn't 'coded'. Magic, to those who cannot cast it or understand it, believe a magicker is capable of anything.

The idea of a Common Wo/Man picking a fight with a Gemmed or calling them out in some macho way is...Stupid. Wanting them dead? Sure. Thinking it all to yourself? Sure. Not going out of your way to help a Gemmed that got shivved in the street at dusk? Not a problem. Taking your time to help a Gemmed who's apartment got broken into? Makes sense. Suddenly running out of that trade good a Gemmed is interested in? Happens all the time. Unable to find a Gemmed's order, even though it's in the warehouse? Things get misplaced.

The more we move away from the fart joke macho teenager mentality in the Gaj, and further into the subtle discrimination, the better.

AMEN. From the POV of the person who shows up out of chargen with a gem, the one who manifests with the gem after years of getting to know people as a mundane, and as the mundane who has to interact with either/both. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a "Which cartoon character will our PC most closely resemble" game and not a gritty low-tech rather adult-oriented fantasy game (btw it's not low-magic. It's not even low-fantasy. It's just low-tech).

[Riev]

I've had characters "chummy" with magickers, and others that refuse to work or talk to them unless coin or direct orders are involved, and the gamut in between.

My feeling on it, is that you can be 'friendly' to a gemmed because you think otherwise they'll turn your dick to sand. Or because the Templarate keeps them on a leash anyways. Or because you've been around a few and found out some aren't so powerful.

You can be 'unfriendly' to a gemmed for nearly the exact same reasons. Don't tell people HOW to play, just let them know there are options, and take care of it ICly. I can think of a very recent example where this has happened, and I think its great!

[Miradus]

I've had characters "chummy" with magickers, and others that refuse to work or talk to them unless coin or direct orders are involved, and the gamut in between.

My feeling on it, is that you can be 'friendly' to a gemmed because you think otherwise they'll turn your dick to sand. Or because the Templarate keeps them on a leash anyways. Or because you've been around a few and found out some aren't so powerful.

You can be 'unfriendly' to a gemmed for nearly the exact same reasons. Don't tell people HOW to play, just let them know there are options, and take care of it ICly. I can think of a very recent example where this has happened, and I think its great!

That's sort of the way I've always seen it.

There's also multiple levels as to how you interact with them (or filthy neckers, etc.). I may react one way when we're sitting in the Gaj but a completely different way if I run across them in the Canyon of Wastes with an exhausted mount.

[Synthesis]

I've had characters "chummy" with magickers, and others that refuse to work or talk to them unless coin or direct orders are involved, and the gamut in between.

My feeling on it, is that you can be 'friendly' to a gemmed because you think otherwise they'll turn your dick to sand. Or because the Templarate keeps them on a leash anyways. Or because you've been around a few and found out some aren't so powerful.

You can be 'unfriendly' to a gemmed for nearly the exact same reasons. Don't tell people HOW to play, just let them know there are options, and take care of it ICly. I can think of a very recent example where this has happened, and I think its great!

That's sort of the way I've always seen it.

There's also multiple levels as to how you interact with them (or filthy neckers, etc.). I may react one way when we're sitting in the Gaj but a completely different way if I run across them in the Canyon of Wastes with an exhausted mount.

The idea "this guy is a gemmer and can't run, I can probably take him out" probably shouldn't occur to folks, anymore.  Not that it ever should have.  It's like bum-rushing a dude with an assault rifle.

[a french mans shirt]

I think he means if the mundane has an exhausted mount in the unknown reaches. Makes you -real- nice to anyone you see.

[Miradus]

Yeah, that was what I meant.

But there's a range of responses to any character.

A character of mine who has never seen a real gick do anything? Terror.

A character of mine who was attacked by a gick and sank a couple of unspeakables into the guy before he ran away reeling? Not terror.

Different strokes for different folks makes for a diverse and interesting roleplay experience. I want to play a collaborative roleplaying game, not read someone else's novel with pre-scripted responses.

[Jihelu]

Yeah, that was what I meant.

But there's a range of responses to any character.

A character of mine who has never seen a real gick do anything? Terror.

A character of mine who was attacked by a gick and sank a couple of unspeakables into the guy before he ran away reeling? Not terror.

Different strokes for different folks makes for a diverse and interesting roleplay experience. I want to play a collaborative roleplaying game, not read someone else's novel with pre-scripted responses.

I feel like the latter is completely justified as it can be easily changed when you meet that one gick that does [Redacted] to you and then you wake up and [redacted] and then [redacted] and then you're back to square one of "Pure terror"

[Miradus]

Exactly!

Gicks, like carru, apparently load with a wide range of skills and you can run into wimpy ones and deadly ones.

[Synthesis]

Exactly!

Gicks, like carru, apparently load with a wide range of skills and you can run into wimpy ones and deadly ones.

Okay, then.  Hope that works out for you.

[Rokal]

I have to agree with this, the idea of commoners that outright picking a fight with a gemmed in the gaj or telling them to get lost is when they're known tools of the templarate, not to mention, why would someone want to piss a gemmed off in the first place? unless you got good connections you won't know if that gemmed will hold a grudge.

hatred is well roleplayed, but sometimes i find the fear of the gemmed is lacking. its a matter of a character balancing fear with hate. wants to do X, but is scared Y will happen if they do thus they do Z instead.

The gemmed are in a unique position, having overwhelming power to harm that is near that of Templars while being thousands of feet below elves on the social ladder, and a lot of newer players, including gemmed, don't seem to understand how to play this out (myself included, at one point.) I am NOT citing anything recent; always assume there are reasons. But that drovian who cracks a joke to a normal about being able to see through them? Yeah, I'd make my fright clear, unless you're kanking that gemmed. Or, especially if you are. Way them, psi Why the heck did you say that? We're trying not to draw attention to ourselves, remember?

One thing I've noticed tends to linger for players who haven't played a certain number of witches is that they treat witches as humans wearing jewelry and having unusual powers, rather than how the world sees them: as unnatural, filthy abominations that look like humans, and can speak and salt and eat and all those things, but have most likely lost their souls if they'd had any in the first place and may turn their ire on you at any second, and at that point, nothing will save you because by the time the witch is caught you will have already been killed.

As much as this is true its also important to know that many gemmed were normal, ordinary people before they manifested, and adjusting to such a life might take a long of time, not only that, someone becoming gemed like this is certanly a shitty thing to happen, but it wouldn't at the core, change how someone behaves - it might effect how someone thinks of themselves and their situation, but people dont change in personality so easily.

The most important thing, in my opinon, is to RP that part of their character - the side that was a mundane before they no longer were mundane, and also the side that is magical - and the conflict, confusion, and struggle between the two.

just my 2 sids on that.

[a french mans shirt]

That's true---- a lot if not most players of gemmed play their witches as having been gemmed recently. A lot of gemmed tend to or have to stick to Allanak, where 'acceptance' of gemmed is less hostile because of their pc numbers.

I'm just saying that maybe your elf gemmed shouldn't be openly kanking a human in the Gaj, like that one person did.

[Hauwke]

I think the biggest issue is that folks assume that because gicks used to be mainguild and thus mostly gick, it was like they were only magick things. They just couldnt -be- mundane and that it is so ingrained into the population of people here that it is viewed as the norm.

[evilcabbage]

That's true---- a lot if not most players of gemmed play their witches as having been gemmed recently. A lot of gemmed tend to or have to stick to Allanak, where 'acceptance' of gemmed is less hostile because of their pc numbers.

I'm just saying that maybe your elf gemmed shouldn't be openly kanking a human in the Gaj, like that one person did.

in the GAJ?!

disgusting!

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm actually okay with that sort of thing rarely happening... IF they're both brutally tortured then executed in semi-public fashion leaving a rumor post for a few years to come.

[Rokal]

That's true---- a lot if not most players of gemmed play their witches as having been gemmed recently. A lot of gemmed tend to or have to stick to Allanak, where 'acceptance' of gemmed is less hostile because of their pc numbers.

I'm just saying that maybe your elf gemmed shouldn't be openly kanking a human in the Gaj, like that one person did.

in the GAJ?!

disgusting!

KILL THEM BOTH!

[a french mans shirt]

Yeah, I think they both knew what they were doing and neither made it out alive.

I think, if you're going to use coded fireballs on a noble (probably it should miss and hit a noble's aide) in Red's, then you should tell staff in a character report before you go do it. I'm not saying spare the noble, I'm saying they may be at the center of several plots and it might not be a good idea to end all those plots prematurely. (i.e. burn the fucker.)

[John]

I think, if you're going to use coded fireballs on a noble (probably it should miss and hit a noble's aide) in Red's, then you should tell staff in a character report before you go do it. I'm not saying spare the noble, I'm saying they may be at the center of several plots and it might not be a good idea to end all those plots prematurely. (i.e. burn the fucker.)

The idea that before entering into a PK scenario that you need to fill in a report to staff is a dangerous one that needs to die as quickly as possible. Wishing up, should be the absolute maximum required (and only because this would be such a public situation that crimcode doesn't necessarily take into account).

The more paperwork you require of players, the less they achieve in the game. If you need to fill in a report BEFORE you go killing people, then a lot of people just won't bother and the end result is a world that is less harsh. Have people abused their coded ability to kill people? Sure. Have some people used their coded power to grief the game? Definitely. Is requiring people to not kill certain PCs due to teh plots or to fill in paperwork simply so their character can act in an IC manner an appropriate response? Hell no.

The idea "will this kill plots" should never enter anyone's thought when they're playing their character. They should be thinking "what would my character do" and have that be their final decision on the matter. Does it suck to have plots come to a standstill because someone died? Yup. I've been on the receiving end of that. But that is the game. I'd rather have a harsh game with plots occasionally getting stalled then one where people avoid killing others simply because they can't be worried with the paperwork.

[Lizzie]

As far as I know, you only have to send a report through the request tool if you are *planning* to kill someone, not if you are in the process of killing them. And even then (as far as I know) you only are *required* to do it if you are playing a leadership, sponsored, or higher-karma role, or if you are in a subordinate role in a clan and are planning to whack your clan leader.

Random PKs don't require a submitted report in advance, as far as I know.

[Hauwke]

I think its mostly just so folks know there was thought put  into it rather than; Kill newb;get boots newb

[evilcabbage]

i file reports on murders if i murder people, and i wish up as it's happening or immediately after.

i was not aware you ever had to report your plans or intents to kill anyone ever. you 'should' if you're leadership, but sometimes things happen.

[Hauwke]

If I was a leader and planned a midnight raid on a bunch of folks, damn right I would report that.
If I had to whip the ever loving shit out of a bad mouthing minion I would report that. Afterward sure.

[Shoka Windrunner]

All I want to say I guess, is that there is one thing I think an Allanaki commoner wouldn't do.

And that's break or damage the Templarate's, and by extension the Highlord's, "toys."

Cause it ain't worth it in my opinion.

[BadSkeelz]

Allanaki commoners will happily try to break the Templarate's toys if they think they can get away with it, as the History page and recent (<2RL years) in-game events attests. Typically requires a complete breakdown in social order for people to think they can get away with it, however.

"Burn the City,
Smash the State!"

[Shoka Windrunner]

Allanaki commoners will happily try to break the Templarate's toys if they think they can get away with it, as the History page and recent (<2RL years) in-game events attests. Typically requires a complete breakdown in social order for people to think they can get away with it, however.

"Burn the City,
Smash the State!"

I can agree with that.  But like you said, complete breakdown.  Not on any random day in the Gaj.  Dunno.