New Player to the MUD, question on theme vs backstory.

[Jinxed]

In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

Why not roleplay that by maintaining shield around one's mind and explain it as subconscious protective mechanism?
That kin of mechanism that is not quite under one's control.
You don't really need a staff intervention for most things - there is always a workaround.

[Lizzie]

In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

Why not roleplay that by maintaining shield around one's mind and explain it as subconscious protective mechanism?
That kin of mechanism that is not quite under one's control.
You don't really need a staff intervention for most things - there is always a workaround.

You can't maintain an impervious shield around your mind. Barrier is not foolproof, and it also wears off all by itself over time, at which point you'd have to put it back up. Again - your idea would require staff intervention and a special application. Otherwise you'd have to ignore incoming psis, ignore that someone is contacting you, ignore that your character is receiving Way messages. Problem is - if someone is able to send you a message, they will know your character received it. And if you don't answer them, they will know your character has chosen not to respond to it. And -they- will roleplay accordingly, even if you refuse to do the same.

[Jinxed]

You just keep creating artificial obstacles that can be easily avoided by proper roleplay.

Send them barely coherent responses, justifying moments of shields being down as brief moments of clarity but still not sufficient to communicate efficiently.

[Lizzie]

You just keep creating artificial obstacles that can be easily avoided by proper roleplay.

Send them barely coherent responses, justifying moments of shields being down as brief moments of clarity but still not sufficient to communicate efficiently.

It is a fact in the game, that psionics exists and is a part of the hardwiring of every sentient being's brain. Your suggestion was to have a character whose ability to speak verbally was removed to prevent her from accusing someone of something. This would not be done in the world of Zalanthas, because everyone in the world of Zalanthas knows that everyone else in the world of Zalanthas has the ability to psionically communicate with each other. No one would remove your character's ability to verbally communicate, to prevent your character from outting someone. This scenario wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen, because everyone knows that verbal communication isn't the only kind of communication available to everyone.

Your character might or might not have a defect in the brain - but no one would KNOW that, to know that they could safely remove your character's ability to verbally communicate and not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone.

[Jinxed]

I did not suggest anything, I merely state my perception of the initial idea and your reaction to said idea.

What I see is player who is willing to invest into desciptive writing in order to communicate their character's thoughts to another character.
As someone who did play similiar role on another project - I find it doable and interesting undertaking.

Regarding this part
>Everyone knows
>Can't happen
You are taking things into their absolute.
World of Zalanthas is a strange world and no one can surely state why and how psionics work.
Neither can someone state why they would not work properly, while being existant in one's mind.
Strange situations can happen, they do require to be discussed with staff in most cases - but there is nothing that stops player from roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication from a mechanical point of view and it does not require staff's intervention.
That is from mechanical point of view. From roleplay point of view I do not see why it should be impossible for someone to have their psionic abilities damaged.
Yes, that would appear at least as strange to others.
Yes, that is quite unlikely to happen.
Yes, that character would be deemed as freak most likely.
No, there is nothing that actually prevents that from happening or warranty on your psionics in case if they don't work properly - although it would be amusing to see templars accepting complaints about psionics not functioning properly and attempting to fix the issue.


>no one would KNOW that.
Is that seriously the problem there?
So basicly you are saying that person is not allowed to roleplay something just because another player does not know what they roleplay?
>not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone
Are you seriously defending the metagamers now?

[Lizzie]

Her first meal is drugged, and when she awakens, she has no ability to formulate speech.  She can make sounds and that sort of thing, and her thoughts are coherent, but she can't put her thoughts through her lips.  What we in real life know as Aphasia.  A dark doctor type, had done surgery to purposefully damage the parts of a brain that connect thoughts to communication.

The man explains to her, that all of his guilded pupils are given this treatment, to make them the absolute best at what they do.  In that they can never truly reveal their motives, their contractors, or their guild should they be caught. 

How would you build a character in char gen to fit a story like this?   Not on a Min Max level, but how best would this fit into the world? I was thinking of being an elf or half elf. Probably a half elf.

Any other thoughts/suggestions, on pulling this off?

Thanks for your time, and for getting this far!

-Jinxie

Your asked a question. Many of us answered you, including me, and I expounded on the explanation of why I answered what I answered. The above is the part of your first post that my recent posts are in response to. The bold is what won't work. It won't work. It won't, because the game world doesn't work that way, ICly and codedly. If you want any more detailed explanation than that, unfortunately it's one of those find out IC things. I checked a help file but the details aren't in it, so I can't explain it without getting in trouble.

But suffice it to say - a "dark doctor" wouldn't bother rendering your character unable to speak in an attempt to prevent her from outing him - because your "dark doctor" would know that verbalizing/hearing isn't the only way of communicating.

You wanted to know how this would fit into the game world. It doesn't. That's the answer.

In addition, there would be at least two noble houses, one GMH, and many templars who would want to know how it is that some nobody who no one has ever even heard of, managed to discover and develop a drug that renders someone unable to speak, and none of them have ever heard of this drug, let alone seen it, or created it themselves.

You're creating things that don't exist in the game, to ensure that your character is a special snowflake. Snowflakes are great, but only if the person creating them understands the game first. In other words - learn the rules before setting out to break them. Learn the conventions before deciding to be intentionally unconventional.

[Lizzie]

>Everyone knows
>Can't happen
You are taking things into their absolute.
World of Zalanthas is a strange world and no one can surely state why and how psionics work.

It is possible that some characters know why and how psionics work. Saying "no one can surely state" is taking things into the absolute. It also has nothing to do with what I said.

I said everyone knows that everyone has psionic ability to contact and barrier. This is common knowledge, in-character. Every *character* knows this. It is just as much of a fact as it is a fact that there exists deserts and three moons.

Neither can someone state why they would not work properly, while being existant in one's mind.

This also has nothing to do with anything. You're challenging something that wasn't said. No one has said that anyone can state why something doesn't work properly.

Strange situations can happen, they do require to be discussed with staff in most cases - but there is nothing that stops player from roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication from a mechanical point of view and it does not require staff's intervention.

Your character IS capable of psionic communication. If you roleplay that she's not, then you are ignoring the code. Other *characters* (not players, characters) won't know that your character is not capable of psionic communication, because it is common knowledge that everyone IS capable of it. What players know or don't know is irrelevant. From a roleplay point of view, this isn't a mush. It's a mud. And the code of this mud includes psionic ability, that is common. If you want your character to be incapable of being "mindbent" by mindbenders, or have their barrier broken by anyone with the contact skill better than your character's barrier skill, then you MUST take it up with staff.

>no one would KNOW that.
Is that seriously the problem there?
So basicly you are saying that person is not allowed to roleplay something just because another player does not know what they roleplay?
>not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone
Are you seriously defending the metagamers now?

No, I'm saying that player can't bypass the code and pretend it doesn't exist, and expect the *CHARACTERS* they interact with to know that they are somehow immune to the affects of a quality of sentience that is shared by every other sentient being in the Known World.

[Jinxed]

I would like to point out again that I did not ask the question - I am participating in discussion.
For quite obvious reasons you are confusing me with OP and I should had probably pointed this out more prominently earlier.

So, just to make it crystally clear - I am not Jinxie. I am Jinxed. Completely another person.

Anyway, with that taken care of - back to the topic.
While I do agree that this particular reason for being unable to use psionics will be problematic in terms of creating interesting story where there is actually none - hence it will require to be a special role to be implemented in /this particular/ manner.

But what I saw there is an attack on the whole idea of playing character incapable of verbal and psionic communication.
Perhaps that is again misunderstanding between us and before we proceed to discuss this topic further - let us establish a base point.

Are you against roleplaying character incapable of verbal and psionic communication completely or just under those specific circumstences?
Circumstences being the situation when introduction of character would create virtual threat, that is not actually present in the world currently.

[Lizzie]

I would like to point out again that I did not ask the question - I am participating in discussion.
For quite obvious reasons you are confusing me with OP and I should had probably pointed this out more prominently earlier.

So, just to make it crystally clear - I am not Jinxie. I am Jinxed. Completely another person.

Anyway, with that taken care of - back to the topic.
While I do agree that this particular reason for being unable to use psionics will be problematic in terms of creating interesting story where there is actually none - hence it will require to be a special role to be implemented in /this particular/ manner.

But what I saw there is an attack on the whole idea of playing character incapable of verbal and psionic communication.
Perhaps that is again misunderstanding between us and before we proceed to discuss this topic further - let us establish a base point.

Are you against roleplaying character incapable of verbal and psionic communication completely or just under those specific circumstences?
Circumstences being the situation when introduction of character would create virtual threat, that is not actually present in the world currently.

Sorry yeah I totally confused you for the OP. I was responding to the OP's questions and concerns. I wasn't responding to anything else. I'm not *against* roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication. I -am- however - stating that due to [find out IC] the inability to communicate thoughts via psionics is something that would need to be approved by staff, and not something you can *just* roleplay out, exclusive of the code. Any other discussion would be off-topic. This thread was created to address the OP's specific concerns and questions.

[Jinxed]

Ah. I see now.

Well, I do not say that this does not require fleshing the concept out with staff first.
I was trying to make a point that it does not require any mechanical intervention - any code issues always can be roleplayed around, if really needed.

And I do believe we are still serving the purpose of answering the OP's concerns and questions by discussing one specific concern a bit deeper than expected.
I do believe that mute characters are interesting to play around, although they do require a lot of effort from character's player and players of characters who plan to communicate with character frequently.
In my own experience (on another project), we ended up creating a gesture language from the scratch - that way our characters could communicate efficiently and with actual system in place it was much easier to communicate with bypassers.
I found it strangely satisfying when I, as player, noted that some gestures from that language outlived the character and became recognisable widely through support of those who adopted them.

So, I would say - go for a mute character, but after you grab more experience and knowledge of the world.

[Lizzie]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

[Pale Horse]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

Or, you could ignore all of what is said (please don't), and role-play exactly that.  That your character is able to maintain a 24/7 barrier around their mind that is impregnable.  Other characters in the game will quickly realize this is not true when they chance to use their own mind abilities to contact your character during the time period when the coded forces your barrier to drop because it's been up too long (strain on the brain).  You will be known as that lunatic that thinks they've got uncommon mind abilities that just aren't there.

Or, let's say for whatever reason, the code rolls in your favor and your low-powered barrier manages to keep the average person out of your mind.  This is not a common ability available to the general population in Zalanthas.  There is a type of individual who does have the power to do something like that, though.  They're called various things on Zalanthas, such as "Mindbender" "Mindworm" "Freak" "Witch/Mindwitch" "Abomination," and other flattering terms.  The mere possession of uncommon psionic abilities is an offense punishable by death in most of the Known World.  You do not get a trial, there are no lawyers or open sympathizers to speak up on your character's behalf.  They are a freak of nature, a monster, and you will have the common man more than happy to turn you in and see you die.

You might get an awesome death scene.  You might not.  In the end, the character you poured your interest in to will have lived for two, three hours (an average of time spread out over however long) and then they are dead.  Forever.

Go easy on yourself and make your first few characters two-bit cast members that are expected to show up, show off how cool someone else is, and then die.  You will have all too many experiences in the future of having your heart ripped out when a beloved character dies in the blink of an eye, without a "cool death," because you walked west, an aggressive mob came into the room, hit you before you could react, and you died.

Don't give Zalanthas any more of your heart up front than it will already take.  Zalanthas hates you.  It wants you to die so it can feed on your frustration and anger.

[evilcabbage]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

Or, you could ignore all of what is said (please don't), and role-play exactly that.  That your character is able to maintain a 24/7 barrier around their mind that is impregnable.  Other characters in the game will quickly realize this is not true when they chance to use their own mind abilities to contact your character during the time period when the coded forces your barrier to drop because it's been up too long (strain on the brain).  You will be known as that lunatic that thinks they've got uncommon mind abilities that just aren't there.

Or, let's say for whatever reason, the code rolls in your favor and your low-powered barrier manages to keep the average person out of your mind.  This is not a common ability available to the general population in Zalanthas.  There is a type of individual who does have the power to do something like that, though.  They're called various things on Zalanthas, such as "Mindbender" "Mindworm" "Freak" "Witch/Mindwitch" "Abomination," and other flattering terms.  The mere possession of uncommon psionic abilities is an offense punishable by death in most of the Known World.  You do not get a trial, there are no lawyers or open sympathizers to speak up on your character's behalf.  They are a freak of nature, a monster, and you will have the common man more than happy to turn you in and see you die.

You might get an awesome death scene.  You might not.  In the end, the character you poured your interest in to will have lived for two, three hours (an average of time spread out over however long) and then they are dead.  Forever.

Go easy on yourself and make your first few characters two-bit cast members that are expected to show up, show off how cool someone else is, and then die.  You will have all too many experiences in the future of having your heart ripped out when a beloved character dies in the blink of an eye, without a "cool death," because you walked west, an aggressive mob came into the room, hit you before you could react, and you died.

Don't give Zalanthas any more of your heart up front than it will already take.  Zalanthas hates you.  It wants you to die so it can feed on your frustration and anger.

yeah right.

a barrier prevents people from contacting a dude. must be a mindbender.

never have i ever heard something so ridiculous. don't plant crazy ideas into peoples heads, you evil worm.


if the guy wants to roleplay that he cannot contact, and thus does not use the contact skill, you as a player have absolutely no right to tell them that they are not allowed to do that.


i'm talking to both of you, you know who you are. it is not your decision. it is the players decision.

[Pale Horse]

yeah right.

a barrier prevents people from contacting a dude. must be a mindbender.

never have i ever heard something so ridiculous. don't plant crazy ideas into peoples heads, you evil worm.


if the guy wants to roleplay that he cannot contact, and thus does not use the contact skill, you as a player have absolutely no right to tell them that they are not allowed to do that.


i'm talking to both of you, you know who you are. it is not your decision. it is the players decision.

I was not saying anything of the sorts about their lack of an ability.  If they want to role-play a deficiency, more power to them.  If they want to role-play having a power in an ability, that is not the Zalanthan norm, by code or by lore..I do have the right to protest, despite your feelings.

I'm out of this thread.  Too many people willing to bite the heads off of everyone else for their own opinions.

[Jinxed]

I like how you try to twist the workaround I came up with from the top of my head into attempt to powergame and go even further agitating IC punishment for it.

Anyway, to elaborate - if we are to consider a complete mute, hence character not capable of using psionics efficiently, we must consider why and how.
The most obvious solution I came up with on the spot is to discourage another characters from contacting the mind of mute character is providing barely coherent communication, hinting that psionics may cause more discomfort to them than usual.
Now, let us assume that character is in situation where basicly any other person can attempt to contact the mind and it causes the discomfort for character? Especially if someone might use it to intentionally cause said discomfort. I would say that such person would either by own choice or simply out of neccessary defensive subconcious mechanism attempt to shield own mind, hence barrier, from something as unpleasant and maintain it for as long as possible.
If contact is made through force or when barrier is lowered to let the mind rest - such person would seek to either attempt to communicate frustration or ultimately expell the other's mind.

I never said anything about roleplaying something as "ololo I gunna keep the barrier 24/7 and tell everyone that they can't breach it" - people just keep assuming that for whatever reason.
No stat boosts are needed.
No script adjustements for character.
Just plain logic and workarounds.

Barrier is available to all intelligent beings, as far as I am informed.
Expelling foreign mind is available to all intelligent beings as well, as far as I am informed.
Not quite sure how barrier is effective, though, but assuming that most characters with common subguilds will have their barrier crushed by simple attempt of psionic contact - is what you are saying that you will actually have your character go and seek death for any character who was rude enough to shield their mind and, oh lord, accidently to be successful at it?

[manipura]

Not even sure I want to get into any of this, but here goes anyway...

I think what is being said is that while every intelligent being in the Known does have psionic abilities, they also know that they can't successfully contact someone all the time and they can't successfully keep a barrier up all the time, because these things are taxing on the mind.  The Way is a mysterious thing and I don't think the majority of people know all the ins and outs of it.  They just know how to concentrate to make it work, not how or why it works, or doesn't work.

And since everyone, at some point, has had their barrier broken through, I don't think any average Amos in the Known would ever think they have complete mastery of the Way to the point that their barrier can't be penetrated.  If they -did- think that and they played their character in a way that publicized these beliefs they had about their abilities, I don't think it's unrealistic that this would be questioned. 
People might figure it out soon enough, as Pale Horse said, that they can get through the person's barrier...in which case they might then consider them kooky for thinking their barrier was inpenetrable in the first place.
The other side of the coin is that they simply think you're some sort of abomination for believing you have uncommon and overly powerful mind abilities.

I don't think anyone is really coming out and saying "NO DON'T DO THAT YOU CAAAAN'T!"  I think what people are saying is that it's quite against the norm, and this sort of character would very likely have to face some real consequences; whether it's a quick death, a long torturous death, or simply people shunning and avoiding the lunatic, just to name a few possibilities.

[Jinxed]

I never stated barrier to be inpenetrable in the first place.
I simply stated that maintaining a barrier to avoid being contacted via the way can be done without staff's intervention and the person I debated with decided that I claim for unbrekable shield.

And to explain how can barrier be used in order to roleplay a person incapable of efficient communication through the way I must, yet again, stress out what I explained just a post above.
Let me just put emphasis on this moment: character is incapable. It is a handicap. Placed willingly by player. Character is inferior. Not superior.

The way makes character sad.
Character does not like being sad.
Character tries, to his best capabilities, avoid using the way.
Character tries to prevent it by maintaining the barrier.
Character does not have any special powers and neither claims to have them.
Character simply maintains the barrier for as long as possible.
If someone contacts character's mind when barrier is down - character is sad.
If someone contacts character's mind through the barrier - character is even more sad.

How and why it applies to original question of roleplaying a character uncapable of speech:
Naturally, players will try bypass communicating with mute through the gestures.
It makes sense - simply contacting the mind is much more handy than trying to figure out what this person wants when they point at their belly, clap once and make a low groan.
On other hand, it basicly devalues all effort that player of mute character invests into descriptive writing, attempting to create interesting ways to communicate through gestures and basic sounds.
Hence, it makes sense for such character to also be inefficient in communicating through the way - because if mute is capable of the way it makes the whole point moot and mute is no longer mute.

I would understand the concept being attacked for forcing other players into deciphering descriptive writing: gestures and body language. Because it is, well, basicly this - forcing other player into doing something that can be done much easier.
What I dont understand is people attacking the concept over suspicions of powergame.

[Lizzie]

I never stated barrier to be inpenetrable in the first place.
I simply stated that maintaining a barrier to avoid being contacted via the way can be done

Your second sentence is different wording for the first sentence. "Maintaining a barrier" means keeping it up 24/7. You *cannot* maintain barrier. It isn't codedly possible. Barrier wears down even if no one breaks through it. It just comes right down all by itself. It can also be taken down by someone who is able to get through it. And - even if you have *master* level barrier, sometimes - you just can't get that barrier put up. Sometimes it takes a few tries. Sometimes there are blocks in the game that prevent you from putting it up at all.

You can't maintain a barrier.

[Kankfly]

The way I see it, it seems to me that what Jinxed mean by 'maintaining the barrier' actually means 'maintaining the barrier for x moment of time' instead of '24/7'.

Anyway, I think we scared Jinxie away.

I love that new players come in with fresh character ideas, and your idea is really interesting, Jinxie. But I'm going to give you the same advice the other players are giving you: Start with a simple concept and learn the game. Get in there and experience it for yourself before you start with more complex characters, because reading the docs are great and all, but they're just that: Docs. It isn't until you actually experience the game before you actually get the 'vibe' of the Zalanthan environment.

Also, we're really nice people. Things just got a bit heated in here.

[Riev]

I was going to make a quote tree trying to put this all a bit more simply, as its devolved into quite a discussion, however:

What I see at the core is Jinxed insisting that "it can be roleplayed" and Lizzie insisting "there are coded limitations".

I'm on Lizzies side here... there are times where "it can be roleplayed" will work, but we are playing a MUD for a reason. There are CODED limitations to what can be done without staff assistance. The idea of "being cut off from the Way" is not as simple as "put up a barrier". For many of the reasons already discussed, up to and including the fact that there are specific abilities/spells in came to be able to do this and they are either removed or VERY RARELY given out. It is not as simple as "I don't want to participate".

I'm always for roleplaying out a scene, but because YOU want to roleplay it out doesn't mean someone else has to. If they take your non-response to their Ways as an insult, they have every right to be mad, because they know the messages got through. Its how Psionics works in the gameworld.



On topic, though? I wish I had HALF the creative ideas Jinxie does.

[Kankfly]

Well, I think what Jinxed is trying to say is that there are ways around the code. That it's not absolute. There's a middle ground, and while Jinxed's suggestion on the work around might not work, the idea is there. By talking with the staff, perhaps Jinxie can tweak the concept to fit with the ic environment in a way that makes sense.

Like for example, playing a character that isn't familiar in using the Way, due to her background. I have met a PC ig before that had trouble communicating with the Way, and if staff is fine with that, then it must be ok.

[azuriolinist]

All the power to them if someone wants to roleplay having little to no ability to psionically communicate to others, in my opinion. It doesn't have to mean that they aren't able to receive psionic communications from others, but I think roleplaying having an incapacity to actually send psis should be permitted. And, yeah, if others are going to roleplay being affronted and take it as if they're being ignored, I think that's totally legitimate, seeing that psionics are something of an everyday thing to Zalanthans.

You tend to see little variety with peoples' psionic abilitiess, and having someone with such a limited ability with psionics would be pretty nice to come across. It might be classified as a 'mutation' of sorts.

Anyway, in the end, bringing it up with staff is the best way to go about it.

Also...

I wish I had HALF the creative ideas Jinxie does.

[Synthesis]

This is the kind of background that gets you killed within 2 hours of playtime, because you put too much thought into it.

Born in Allanak to two parents.

Likes ale.

Likes to fight.

Hates elves.

Live for 100 days played.

[Armaddict]

This is the kind of background that gets you killed within 2 hours of playtime, because you put too much thought into it.

Born in Allanak to two parents.

Likes ale.

Likes to fight.

Hates elves.

Live for 100 days played.

Ha!  Up until more recently, this was like a rule of thumb for me.  Throw away characters would live long.  Character concepts I'd brainstormed and come to love and needed to play died in <5 days.

[Delirium]

Throw away = no pressure
Elaborate concept = tons of pressure

no pressure = more fun
tons of pressure = less fun

more fun = more likely to stick with
less fun = good god die already

There, my very scientific breakdown of why throwaways are the best.