New Player to the MUD, question on theme vs backstory.

[Jinxie]

So, As the title suggests, (and feel free to move this to another board if you feel it better fitting!)  I am looking at the prospect of starting this MUD.  I like the RP enforcement, and enjoy the concept of the depth of character and story telling that creates. I have always wanted to place a certain type of character, but it never really leant itself to being all that fun sitting at a real table, with real players for D&D or shadowrun, but I may be able to make it work in a world like this.  Especially if shady deals and other things are done between player guilds, NPC guilds, and so on.  Anyhoo... on to the point.

The story needs a lot of fleshing out, which I want to do if it is even plausible to pull off in game, but the concept of the backstory goes like this...

She was quite young, possibly 4 to 5, completely raised off the streets.  She doesn't remember her infancy (obviously), or much before this moment and had never really had many close friends, or identity.  No real concept of a parent either.  Her earliest memory is that of attempting to pick some bread to eat.  She almost succeeds, unnoticed, but is later followed down an alley.  The figure, who appeared to her to be the shopkeeper she robbed, essentially offers to teach her the ways of the life that she already had a talent for.  That of a pick pocket/thief/spy, though not so named by him.  Knowing no one, and never having a consistent bite to eat, she decides that learning to be better at what HAS fed her, she will take him up on the offer.  He sweeps her away, and after she signs herself over to him, he feeds her.  Her first meal is drugged, and when she awakens, she has no ability to formulate speech.  She can make sounds and that sort of thing, and her thoughts are coherent, but she can't put her thoughts through her lips.  What we in real life know as Aphasia.  A dark doctor type, had done surgery to purposefully damage the parts of a brain that connect thoughts to communication.

The man explains to her, that all of his guilded pupils are given this treatment, to make them the absolute best at what they do.  In that they can never truly reveal their motives, their contractors, or their guild should they be caught.  So from here, she becomes some of everything.  She is a dancer for entertainment, a courtesian of general variety, listening to the information of the suitors that pay her keeper for her time.  She is taught to slink through the night, and creep into places and burgle property, or important documents. To pick pocket.  She is taught the basics of self defense should the need arise, but not the most formidable training in combat.  Murder leads to more questions than an unknown thief rotting in a cell.

A war of spies takes place, and her guild is mostly wiped out, including her teacher. And she is again thrown to the streets for her livelihood. This time with no ability to speak, and her only knowledge of writing is that of the code of a guild that no longer exists.

I haven't even written what happened to her parents, who they are, or were, or if she actually knows if her Teacher / Spymaster is dead.  And I think its better that way, since really it gives room for story telling.

For those playing the home game, its a bit of a hybrid of Garret, and Cassandra Cain (Batgirl).  But its an archetype I always wanted to try to take the challenge and RP.  Someone with no vocal ability.

Is this something that would actually be feasible in this game? or is every method of progression going to be hailing an NPC, then going through dialogue promits, AKA Everquest 1 quest system?

How would you build a character in char gen to fit a story like this?   Not on a Min Max level, but how best would this fit into the world? I was thinking of being an elf or half elf. Probably a half elf.

Any other thoughts/suggestions, on pulling this off?

Thanks for your time, and for getting this far!

-Jinxie

[evilcabbage]

writing, probably not - the languages we have in game exist, and reading/writing is very illegal in most of the known world (especially the main cities).

it does sound like a nice concept, but start small first. save this idea for later on when you really understand the game world. for now, i would start with something very simple, and grow from that.

you don't want to get denied. especially with that reading/writing thing? that would be a special application, which i highly recommend you wait to do. get a few months of the game under your belt, then start doing crazy stuff.

also, i don't believe a doctor would know what part of the brain affects the talking center in this era. however, it could be explained as (potentially) magickal or psionic damage of some kind. maybe her family treated a witch poorly, and this was the punishment for how they treated the witch.

[Barsook]

Welcome to ArmMud, dibs on your boots!

I would suggest that you role a human because elves and breeds do require racial roleplay and also the subrace of elves, desert elves require one karma to play them.  City elves don't require karma nor the breeds.  Plus the docs do suggest that.

I believe the only place you can start is in the city-state of Allanak because of the first character rules.  Don't start in the 'rinth though.

I hope that helps.

[evilcabbage]

there are no quests in this game that are not established by players or staff. your quest is to live, and make of your life what you can.

[Barsook]

Going off evilcabbage's post above:

In a way, your quest to to tell your character's story and also help other players to tell their characters' stories.  You can use your imagination and your characters backstory to create "quests" (you can use change objective and bios as a as a way to keep track of progress) as a way to tell your character's story.  For example, nowadays I like to play characters that focus on learning things within the game world.  The main topic of what I want to learn is the main question, almost like a dwarf's focus (when I don't play a dwarf) but not that too focused, and I use change objective and bios to keep track of progress of that main quest.

You could use vision quests or life-changing events as ideas for quests.

EDIT TO ADD: Added links.

[Jinxie]

Yes, I saw the change objective page. It is partly why I sorta liked this backstory. There are quite a few things I could choose for that.  It drew me to the concept of the half elf, because the character herself, tried to find a community, and when it was taken from her, she could try to find out, who she is individually, by searching for her parents, or try to find the ACTUAL knowledge of what happened to the spy master and why? It would be about a loyalty to a community, but she would be rather individually inclined on the matter.

[evilcabbage]

you don't necessarily need to be a half-elf to do that, and i strongly recommend you don't, because half-elves are extremely disliked by all races, not just humans or elves. nobody likes them. they are a disgusting, filthy abomination, as far as the game world is concerned.

but if you want to try that out, go for it!

[Barsook]

If you do, good luck!

Anyways, if loyalty is one side, you need to think what is the other side because of the bipolarity of the breed's personalty that is from not being accepted.

[Jinxie]

Thanks, I think I will come up with a new concept that is a bit more forgiving to learn the setting and behaviors properly, the way Cabbage originally suggested.  I do have a question about what he meant by "denied" though.  Do they go over a character creation process and make sure its accurate? Is a deny a hard deny? or do admins give feedback and suggestions on how to make it thematically appropriate?

[Lizzie]

Jinxie, the trouble with your story that wouldn't mesh in Arm, is that her ability to speak was removed in an attempt to prevent her from telling anyone who her master is/was. Armageddon has psionics, and every person on the planet has the ability to psionically contact and communicate with each other. In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

As the cabbage and sookie say - start small. Make a generic human who comes fresh off the turnip farm (in this case - the chalton ranch), eager to find her way around the big city and make her fortune. Consider it a rite of passage. If you make it through that one, then you'll be ready for the next challenge.

[Barsook]

Thanks, I think I will come up with a new concept that is a bit more forgiving to learn the setting and behaviors properly, the way Cabbage originally suggested.  I do have a question about what he meant by "denied" though.  Do they go over a character creation process and make sure its accurate? Is a deny a hard deny? or do admins give feedback and suggestions on how to make it thematically appropriate?

Yes, the staff do check every application and I do believe they do give suggestions on what is wrong. So, no, it's not a hard deny, you can change your application and resubmit it. I don't know if they suggest on how to fix it.

I could suggest that you roll up a human who seeks a community to be loyal to.  I would suggest maybe an human with the indent to become an aide for a Highborn (Noble or Templar) or a crafter who wants to be loyal to a Great Merchant House.  Keep in mind how on where you character will hang around people, as in the tough-type or the aide-ly/crafter type of people.  So basically the Gaj or the Red's Retreat for joints to meet other people and to also get a job, if needed.

[Lizzie]

Thanks, I think I will come up with a new concept that is a bit more forgiving to learn the setting and behaviors properly, the way Cabbage originally suggested.  I do have a question about what he meant by "denied" though.  Do they go over a character creation process and make sure its accurate? Is a deny a hard deny? or do admins give feedback and suggestions on how to make it thematically appropriate?

Once it's denied, it's denied. But if it's something plausible, and easy to fix, it's possible they wouldn't deny it but instead, send you a note asking if you'd mind fixing it, and give suggestions. Then you resubmit and they will decide whether or not to approve or deny. I don't know how common that is, but I do know it has happened in the past and therefore is certainly a possibility given the right circumstances.

[Jinxie]

Jinxie, the trouble with your story that wouldn't mesh in Arm, is that her ability to speak was removed in an attempt to prevent her from telling anyone who her master is/was. Armageddon has psionics, and every person on the planet has the ability to psionically contact and communicate with each other. In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

As the cabbage and sookie say - start small. Make a generic human who comes fresh off the turnip farm (in this case - the chalton ranch), eager to find her way around the big city and make her fortune. Consider it a rite of passage. If you make it through that one, then you'll be ready for the next challenge.

I was not really trying to sound like I was debating that with him, so much as to understand the parts that WERE the problem, so I didn't commit them on the next rendition of a character story.  I hope I wasn't coming across entitled to that character or anything like that. I just like to understand my mistakes and fix them is all.

[evilcabbage]

a deny is a "hard deny" in the sense that if they deny it, they will tell you why, and ask you to fix it.

you can ALWAYS resubmit, making the changes they feel you need to make.

[solera]

I played a 'Rinther kid after my first long lived Byn character. I don't mind playing solo. She was human, but half elf would have worked.   My PC's boss was a breed, though it took a long time for me or her to realize that.
Though sometimes sparse, the other PC's in the 'rinth I found were excellent at teaching my kid her place. She  started off scavenging and through choice, stayed semi detached for a while, though she did drink at the bar. She eventually took the step of 'making friends'  with another teen, and drifted into a local (coded clan) crime organization. At one point she joined the Byn, maybe when her crew was wiped out, and stayed in the byn until she ran away back to the Rinth after the streets of Allanak, and the life of the Bynner , became very unsafe.

I would join others in suggesting a generic human, a bit lost in the big city, for your first character, to give you an idea of how it works, before plunging into what you really want to do.

My kid's background, in case you're interested.

Street kid.  A baby.  Its mother was a girl who had survived through to
adulthood, sturdy enough  to conceive and bear a child.  Had nurtured the
child until it was old enough to scavenge the streets for its own food.  And
to assimilate into the gang of streetwise kids on whose turf it had been
raised.
This was Bugs family, that supplied a ration of security,
sustenance, an identity and a name.  Grunts gang.  Together they survived
and looked out for the youngers, not forgetting  their own age of weakness.
Grunt was further up the ladder of spice and death dealing.  However, when
it was his day of dying, there was more than a single death.  There was a
secret  uncovered, and the gang was erased.  It wasn't a 100% kill rate, one
or two lucky ones weren't around.  Bug survived.
  It was the most precarious time of her life.  Finding sids and sustenance was the easy part, keeping
safe  was a daily ordeal.   And then there was the worry of that bag of sids
she was carrying around, to be handed on to Grunt, except...   Instinct told
her to dump it, but she wouldn't.  Maybe she could spend just a bit of it,
without being noticed, after a while. 

Staying safe, and unnoticed  was her objective, for almost as long as she lived.  (She got too cocky and chased after a psychopathic half giant that was after her boss. Ouch. Hot keying Flee doesn't work if you are knocked over)

[Reiloth]

Hi Jinxie! I hope you give ArmageddonMUD a good try.

My recommendation for a first PC is to play a wide-eyed young adult from one of the farm villages surrounding Allanak, which is the major population center of the game. Yaroch, is a good example (Though I always forget if it was Yaroch or Menos that was destroyed a long time ago, someone else can chime in). This allows you to be confused by what many consider to be normal, and it gives you a way to ask questions and not appear suspicious. Playing the country bumpkin allows you to fit in where you might otherwise not, and asking questions via the OOC channel is acceptable to a point. If you need to know how a command works, use the OOC command in the game. But long winded questions or questions about the setting should be directed towards the Helpers.

You can access 'Helpers' by going to the main webpage (www.armageddon.org). Scroll down and you will see a Mantis pointing to a 'Live Help!' button. Click and you will find the helper chat channel, where Staff and Helpers can answer your questions outside of the game.

I would save a high concept like this for when you've played a few characters. Permadeath means your PCs -will- die, and starting with a concept you love and wanting to see it come to fruition will only likely turn you off when they die suddenly. There are many, many ways to die in Zalanthas, and only a few tried and true methods to staying alive.

I highly recommend joining a clan like the T'zai Byn, if you are interested in hunting or pursuing the combat world. I highly recommend joining the Atrium, if you are more politically bent and social.

Good luck, make your first PC, and get started already!

[Beethoven]

Yaroch is still around! I think Menos is gone.

[a french mans shirt]

Menos has been replaced by New Menos, a village on top of a clay pit.

Here's a few ideas that will work, in case you go the way of the dodo like I did and start going through applications dying to animals---

1. A tribal whose tribe is all dead, because you betrayed them to an evil witch to save yourself.
2. A rinther kicked out of his/her gang for refusing a dangerous job, leaving to the southside because that was the only option. (the rinth is highly dangerous--- i'd recommend something like this for your first rinthi. It would give you a taste of the position a rinthi has in the outside, and what they can do for a job.)
3. The son/daughter of a drunken incident between a breed and a human, who easily passes for human and is ambitious.
4. A child of bynners who dreams of becoming a sergeant in the Byn. (they might not take you if you're too young, like 13.)
5. A freed slave (you can't app a current slave) who dreams of becoming a master of weaponry (warrior for the possibility, anything else for the eventual failure of your dreams)

[solera]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the 'rinth is ' dangerous' for those starting there with few possessions?  Of course, it is lawless, and even if the NPC's think you have nothing worth taking, PCs might still fancy your boots.
Tip for starting in the 'rinth. If you spawn at nighttime, with no visibility , south= city, north= The Labrinth.

[a french mans shirt]

West side of the rinth is human, east side is elven/other. Breed can technically go both sides but they're likely more welcome east. I once had a rinthi elf who was killed because I went west and didn't understand there was a difference.

[Riev]

Plenty of players have had their first character be in the 'rinth and had the world really come alive for them. But I believe they are the minority. The 'rinth requires an active playerbase around your time to be interesting, because otherwise there really isn't much there to 'do'. You end up getting your social itch scratched southside, which often times might not be totally in character for you.

'rinth is not pointable on your first PC anyways, I thought... simply for this fact.

[Reiloth]

West side of the rinth is human, east side is elven/other. Breed can technically go both sides but they're likely more welcome east. I once had a rinthi elf who was killed because I went west and didn't understand there was a difference.

This is a relatively new player reinforced concept. It isn't documented anywhere. It also isn't documented that Southsiders should be met with immediate distrust. Considering a large population of people who virtually live in the Rinth are outcasts, spice heads, gamblers who skipped the vig, and well, Southsiders it's a little incongruous. However, having these things clarified in the "What you know Labyrinth" may assuage confusion.

[nauta]

West side of the rinth is human, east side is elven/other. Breed can technically go both sides but they're likely more welcome east. I once had a rinthi elf who was killed because I went west and didn't understand there was a difference.

This is a relatively new player reinforced concept. It isn't documented anywhere. It also isn't documented that Southsiders should be met with immediate distrust. Considering a large population of people who virtually live in the Rinth are outcasts, spice heads, gamblers who skipped the vig, and well, Southsiders it's a little incongruous. However, having these things clarified in the "What you know Labyrinth" may assuage confusion.

Actually, it is documented somewhat -- I too was curious if it was or not, and did a little looksie-loo (below).  'Somewhat' because (a) non-elves can live on the westside, and even some elves -- it is 'predominantly' human -- and so too vice verse: non-humans can live on the eastside, and even some humans -- it is 'predominantly' elf.

I do agree that the kill-elves-on-sight thing with Westside is a recent PC-invented thing.

Relevant bits from the docs:

Geographically and demographically the 'rinth is made up of two distinct areas - the Westside and the Eastside. The Westside's population is, for the most part, made up of humans while the Eastside's is mainly elves. This has led to a futher sub-division of 'rinth culture as the two main population groups generally keep to themselves and view each other with mistrust and suspicion despite the fact that the general social structure and day-to-day life for most occupants of the 'rinth is the same.

[...]

Given the above, it is no surprise that the average 'rinther will generally treat a fellow inhabitant of the alleys with considerable suspicion and mistrust upon first meeting them. This attitude is often magnified when a Westsider meets an Eastsider or vice versa. However, this Westside - Eastside mutual suspicion would probably not be as great as a situation where a 'rinther meets a person who is not from the alleys. All other things being equal, a 'rinther would be more likely to side with another 'rinther than somebody not from the alleys. However, this "bond" is loose at best and, as a 'rinther, not one you'd like to have to depend on.

[...]

This, coupled with the fact that the general citizenry and militia of Allanak avoid this dark ghetto, has given most 'rinthers an insular "them vs. us" attitude. A person not from the 'rinth found wandering the alleys would be viewed with a deal of suspicion. After all, why would any sane person willingly come into such a filthy and dangerous place?

That said, the most important bit of advice I'd give out to a new rinther would be the following (from the same help file):

Thinking, dressing and acting like a 'rinther will greatly help you in this regard.  (NB, emphasis, double bold, on the 'dressing'.)

[Reiloth]

Worthy of another thread, but I know Armaddict and I have plenty to say on the Rinth.

I don't recommend it as a starting location for a new player, mostly due to low interaction.

[Yam]

Also NPCs from 1998 who will murder the shit out of you if you slip up.

[Jinxed]

In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

Why not roleplay that by maintaining shield around one's mind and explain it as subconscious protective mechanism?
That kin of mechanism that is not quite under one's control.
You don't really need a staff intervention for most things - there is always a workaround.

[Lizzie]

In order to have -that- removed, you'd need staff intervention - a special application, that could take weeks - or even months - to get approved, before you can ever play that character.

Why not roleplay that by maintaining shield around one's mind and explain it as subconscious protective mechanism?
That kin of mechanism that is not quite under one's control.
You don't really need a staff intervention for most things - there is always a workaround.

You can't maintain an impervious shield around your mind. Barrier is not foolproof, and it also wears off all by itself over time, at which point you'd have to put it back up. Again - your idea would require staff intervention and a special application. Otherwise you'd have to ignore incoming psis, ignore that someone is contacting you, ignore that your character is receiving Way messages. Problem is - if someone is able to send you a message, they will know your character received it. And if you don't answer them, they will know your character has chosen not to respond to it. And -they- will roleplay accordingly, even if you refuse to do the same.

[Jinxed]

You just keep creating artificial obstacles that can be easily avoided by proper roleplay.

Send them barely coherent responses, justifying moments of shields being down as brief moments of clarity but still not sufficient to communicate efficiently.

[Lizzie]

You just keep creating artificial obstacles that can be easily avoided by proper roleplay.

Send them barely coherent responses, justifying moments of shields being down as brief moments of clarity but still not sufficient to communicate efficiently.

It is a fact in the game, that psionics exists and is a part of the hardwiring of every sentient being's brain. Your suggestion was to have a character whose ability to speak verbally was removed to prevent her from accusing someone of something. This would not be done in the world of Zalanthas, because everyone in the world of Zalanthas knows that everyone else in the world of Zalanthas has the ability to psionically communicate with each other. No one would remove your character's ability to verbally communicate, to prevent your character from outting someone. This scenario wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen, because everyone knows that verbal communication isn't the only kind of communication available to everyone.

Your character might or might not have a defect in the brain - but no one would KNOW that, to know that they could safely remove your character's ability to verbally communicate and not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone.

[Jinxed]

I did not suggest anything, I merely state my perception of the initial idea and your reaction to said idea.

What I see is player who is willing to invest into desciptive writing in order to communicate their character's thoughts to another character.
As someone who did play similiar role on another project - I find it doable and interesting undertaking.

Regarding this part
>Everyone knows
>Can't happen
You are taking things into their absolute.
World of Zalanthas is a strange world and no one can surely state why and how psionics work.
Neither can someone state why they would not work properly, while being existant in one's mind.
Strange situations can happen, they do require to be discussed with staff in most cases - but there is nothing that stops player from roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication from a mechanical point of view and it does not require staff's intervention.
That is from mechanical point of view. From roleplay point of view I do not see why it should be impossible for someone to have their psionic abilities damaged.
Yes, that would appear at least as strange to others.
Yes, that is quite unlikely to happen.
Yes, that character would be deemed as freak most likely.
No, there is nothing that actually prevents that from happening or warranty on your psionics in case if they don't work properly - although it would be amusing to see templars accepting complaints about psionics not functioning properly and attempting to fix the issue.


>no one would KNOW that.
Is that seriously the problem there?
So basicly you are saying that person is not allowed to roleplay something just because another player does not know what they roleplay?
>not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone
Are you seriously defending the metagamers now?

[Lizzie]

Her first meal is drugged, and when she awakens, she has no ability to formulate speech.  She can make sounds and that sort of thing, and her thoughts are coherent, but she can't put her thoughts through her lips.  What we in real life know as Aphasia.  A dark doctor type, had done surgery to purposefully damage the parts of a brain that connect thoughts to communication.

The man explains to her, that all of his guilded pupils are given this treatment, to make them the absolute best at what they do.  In that they can never truly reveal their motives, their contractors, or their guild should they be caught. 

How would you build a character in char gen to fit a story like this?   Not on a Min Max level, but how best would this fit into the world? I was thinking of being an elf or half elf. Probably a half elf.

Any other thoughts/suggestions, on pulling this off?

Thanks for your time, and for getting this far!

-Jinxie

Your asked a question. Many of us answered you, including me, and I expounded on the explanation of why I answered what I answered. The above is the part of your first post that my recent posts are in response to. The bold is what won't work. It won't work. It won't, because the game world doesn't work that way, ICly and codedly. If you want any more detailed explanation than that, unfortunately it's one of those find out IC things. I checked a help file but the details aren't in it, so I can't explain it without getting in trouble.

But suffice it to say - a "dark doctor" wouldn't bother rendering your character unable to speak in an attempt to prevent her from outing him - because your "dark doctor" would know that verbalizing/hearing isn't the only way of communicating.

You wanted to know how this would fit into the game world. It doesn't. That's the answer.

In addition, there would be at least two noble houses, one GMH, and many templars who would want to know how it is that some nobody who no one has ever even heard of, managed to discover and develop a drug that renders someone unable to speak, and none of them have ever heard of this drug, let alone seen it, or created it themselves.

You're creating things that don't exist in the game, to ensure that your character is a special snowflake. Snowflakes are great, but only if the person creating them understands the game first. In other words - learn the rules before setting out to break them. Learn the conventions before deciding to be intentionally unconventional.

[Lizzie]

>Everyone knows
>Can't happen
You are taking things into their absolute.
World of Zalanthas is a strange world and no one can surely state why and how psionics work.

It is possible that some characters know why and how psionics work. Saying "no one can surely state" is taking things into the absolute. It also has nothing to do with what I said.

I said everyone knows that everyone has psionic ability to contact and barrier. This is common knowledge, in-character. Every *character* knows this. It is just as much of a fact as it is a fact that there exists deserts and three moons.

Neither can someone state why they would not work properly, while being existant in one's mind.

This also has nothing to do with anything. You're challenging something that wasn't said. No one has said that anyone can state why something doesn't work properly.

Strange situations can happen, they do require to be discussed with staff in most cases - but there is nothing that stops player from roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication from a mechanical point of view and it does not require staff's intervention.

Your character IS capable of psionic communication. If you roleplay that she's not, then you are ignoring the code. Other *characters* (not players, characters) won't know that your character is not capable of psionic communication, because it is common knowledge that everyone IS capable of it. What players know or don't know is irrelevant. From a roleplay point of view, this isn't a mush. It's a mud. And the code of this mud includes psionic ability, that is common. If you want your character to be incapable of being "mindbent" by mindbenders, or have their barrier broken by anyone with the contact skill better than your character's barrier skill, then you MUST take it up with staff.

>no one would KNOW that.
Is that seriously the problem there?
So basicly you are saying that person is not allowed to roleplay something just because another player does not know what they roleplay?
>not have to worry about your character using the way to out someone
Are you seriously defending the metagamers now?

No, I'm saying that player can't bypass the code and pretend it doesn't exist, and expect the *CHARACTERS* they interact with to know that they are somehow immune to the affects of a quality of sentience that is shared by every other sentient being in the Known World.

[Jinxed]

I would like to point out again that I did not ask the question - I am participating in discussion.
For quite obvious reasons you are confusing me with OP and I should had probably pointed this out more prominently earlier.

So, just to make it crystally clear - I am not Jinxie. I am Jinxed. Completely another person.

Anyway, with that taken care of - back to the topic.
While I do agree that this particular reason for being unable to use psionics will be problematic in terms of creating interesting story where there is actually none - hence it will require to be a special role to be implemented in /this particular/ manner.

But what I saw there is an attack on the whole idea of playing character incapable of verbal and psionic communication.
Perhaps that is again misunderstanding between us and before we proceed to discuss this topic further - let us establish a base point.

Are you against roleplaying character incapable of verbal and psionic communication completely or just under those specific circumstences?
Circumstences being the situation when introduction of character would create virtual threat, that is not actually present in the world currently.

[Lizzie]

I would like to point out again that I did not ask the question - I am participating in discussion.
For quite obvious reasons you are confusing me with OP and I should had probably pointed this out more prominently earlier.

So, just to make it crystally clear - I am not Jinxie. I am Jinxed. Completely another person.

Anyway, with that taken care of - back to the topic.
While I do agree that this particular reason for being unable to use psionics will be problematic in terms of creating interesting story where there is actually none - hence it will require to be a special role to be implemented in /this particular/ manner.

But what I saw there is an attack on the whole idea of playing character incapable of verbal and psionic communication.
Perhaps that is again misunderstanding between us and before we proceed to discuss this topic further - let us establish a base point.

Are you against roleplaying character incapable of verbal and psionic communication completely or just under those specific circumstences?
Circumstences being the situation when introduction of character would create virtual threat, that is not actually present in the world currently.

Sorry yeah I totally confused you for the OP. I was responding to the OP's questions and concerns. I wasn't responding to anything else. I'm not *against* roleplaying a character incapable of verbal and psionic communication. I -am- however - stating that due to [find out IC] the inability to communicate thoughts via psionics is something that would need to be approved by staff, and not something you can *just* roleplay out, exclusive of the code. Any other discussion would be off-topic. This thread was created to address the OP's specific concerns and questions.

[Jinxed]

Ah. I see now.

Well, I do not say that this does not require fleshing the concept out with staff first.
I was trying to make a point that it does not require any mechanical intervention - any code issues always can be roleplayed around, if really needed.

And I do believe we are still serving the purpose of answering the OP's concerns and questions by discussing one specific concern a bit deeper than expected.
I do believe that mute characters are interesting to play around, although they do require a lot of effort from character's player and players of characters who plan to communicate with character frequently.
In my own experience (on another project), we ended up creating a gesture language from the scratch - that way our characters could communicate efficiently and with actual system in place it was much easier to communicate with bypassers.
I found it strangely satisfying when I, as player, noted that some gestures from that language outlived the character and became recognisable widely through support of those who adopted them.

So, I would say - go for a mute character, but after you grab more experience and knowledge of the world.

[Lizzie]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

[Pale Horse]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

Or, you could ignore all of what is said (please don't), and role-play exactly that.  That your character is able to maintain a 24/7 barrier around their mind that is impregnable.  Other characters in the game will quickly realize this is not true when they chance to use their own mind abilities to contact your character during the time period when the coded forces your barrier to drop because it's been up too long (strain on the brain).  You will be known as that lunatic that thinks they've got uncommon mind abilities that just aren't there.

Or, let's say for whatever reason, the code rolls in your favor and your low-powered barrier manages to keep the average person out of your mind.  This is not a common ability available to the general population in Zalanthas.  There is a type of individual who does have the power to do something like that, though.  They're called various things on Zalanthas, such as "Mindbender" "Mindworm" "Freak" "Witch/Mindwitch" "Abomination," and other flattering terms.  The mere possession of uncommon psionic abilities is an offense punishable by death in most of the Known World.  You do not get a trial, there are no lawyers or open sympathizers to speak up on your character's behalf.  They are a freak of nature, a monster, and you will have the common man more than happy to turn you in and see you die.

You might get an awesome death scene.  You might not.  In the end, the character you poured your interest in to will have lived for two, three hours (an average of time spread out over however long) and then they are dead.  Forever.

Go easy on yourself and make your first few characters two-bit cast members that are expected to show up, show off how cool someone else is, and then die.  You will have all too many experiences in the future of having your heart ripped out when a beloved character dies in the blink of an eye, without a "cool death," because you walked west, an aggressive mob came into the room, hit you before you could react, and you died.

Don't give Zalanthas any more of your heart up front than it will already take.  Zalanthas hates you.  It wants you to die so it can feed on your frustration and anger.

[evilcabbage]

And remember if you go with a mute character, remember that a) mute does not equal unable to communicate AND it also doesn't equal "no one else will ever find out my character's secrets," in the world of Armageddon. b) Barrier is not impenetrable, and will wear off over time, so don't assume that your character simply has their barrier up 24/7, AND don't assume that other -characters- of the world will believe your character if your character is somehow able to convey that their barrier is up 24/7.

Or, you could ignore all of what is said (please don't), and role-play exactly that.  That your character is able to maintain a 24/7 barrier around their mind that is impregnable.  Other characters in the game will quickly realize this is not true when they chance to use their own mind abilities to contact your character during the time period when the coded forces your barrier to drop because it's been up too long (strain on the brain).  You will be known as that lunatic that thinks they've got uncommon mind abilities that just aren't there.

Or, let's say for whatever reason, the code rolls in your favor and your low-powered barrier manages to keep the average person out of your mind.  This is not a common ability available to the general population in Zalanthas.  There is a type of individual who does have the power to do something like that, though.  They're called various things on Zalanthas, such as "Mindbender" "Mindworm" "Freak" "Witch/Mindwitch" "Abomination," and other flattering terms.  The mere possession of uncommon psionic abilities is an offense punishable by death in most of the Known World.  You do not get a trial, there are no lawyers or open sympathizers to speak up on your character's behalf.  They are a freak of nature, a monster, and you will have the common man more than happy to turn you in and see you die.

You might get an awesome death scene.  You might not.  In the end, the character you poured your interest in to will have lived for two, three hours (an average of time spread out over however long) and then they are dead.  Forever.

Go easy on yourself and make your first few characters two-bit cast members that are expected to show up, show off how cool someone else is, and then die.  You will have all too many experiences in the future of having your heart ripped out when a beloved character dies in the blink of an eye, without a "cool death," because you walked west, an aggressive mob came into the room, hit you before you could react, and you died.

Don't give Zalanthas any more of your heart up front than it will already take.  Zalanthas hates you.  It wants you to die so it can feed on your frustration and anger.

yeah right.

a barrier prevents people from contacting a dude. must be a mindbender.

never have i ever heard something so ridiculous. don't plant crazy ideas into peoples heads, you evil worm.


if the guy wants to roleplay that he cannot contact, and thus does not use the contact skill, you as a player have absolutely no right to tell them that they are not allowed to do that.


i'm talking to both of you, you know who you are. it is not your decision. it is the players decision.

[Pale Horse]

yeah right.

a barrier prevents people from contacting a dude. must be a mindbender.

never have i ever heard something so ridiculous. don't plant crazy ideas into peoples heads, you evil worm.


if the guy wants to roleplay that he cannot contact, and thus does not use the contact skill, you as a player have absolutely no right to tell them that they are not allowed to do that.


i'm talking to both of you, you know who you are. it is not your decision. it is the players decision.

I was not saying anything of the sorts about their lack of an ability.  If they want to role-play a deficiency, more power to them.  If they want to role-play having a power in an ability, that is not the Zalanthan norm, by code or by lore..I do have the right to protest, despite your feelings.

I'm out of this thread.  Too many people willing to bite the heads off of everyone else for their own opinions.

[Jinxed]

I like how you try to twist the workaround I came up with from the top of my head into attempt to powergame and go even further agitating IC punishment for it.

Anyway, to elaborate - if we are to consider a complete mute, hence character not capable of using psionics efficiently, we must consider why and how.
The most obvious solution I came up with on the spot is to discourage another characters from contacting the mind of mute character is providing barely coherent communication, hinting that psionics may cause more discomfort to them than usual.
Now, let us assume that character is in situation where basicly any other person can attempt to contact the mind and it causes the discomfort for character? Especially if someone might use it to intentionally cause said discomfort. I would say that such person would either by own choice or simply out of neccessary defensive subconcious mechanism attempt to shield own mind, hence barrier, from something as unpleasant and maintain it for as long as possible.
If contact is made through force or when barrier is lowered to let the mind rest - such person would seek to either attempt to communicate frustration or ultimately expell the other's mind.

I never said anything about roleplaying something as "ololo I gunna keep the barrier 24/7 and tell everyone that they can't breach it" - people just keep assuming that for whatever reason.
No stat boosts are needed.
No script adjustements for character.
Just plain logic and workarounds.

Barrier is available to all intelligent beings, as far as I am informed.
Expelling foreign mind is available to all intelligent beings as well, as far as I am informed.
Not quite sure how barrier is effective, though, but assuming that most characters with common subguilds will have their barrier crushed by simple attempt of psionic contact - is what you are saying that you will actually have your character go and seek death for any character who was rude enough to shield their mind and, oh lord, accidently to be successful at it?

[manipura]

Not even sure I want to get into any of this, but here goes anyway...

I think what is being said is that while every intelligent being in the Known does have psionic abilities, they also know that they can't successfully contact someone all the time and they can't successfully keep a barrier up all the time, because these things are taxing on the mind.  The Way is a mysterious thing and I don't think the majority of people know all the ins and outs of it.  They just know how to concentrate to make it work, not how or why it works, or doesn't work.

And since everyone, at some point, has had their barrier broken through, I don't think any average Amos in the Known would ever think they have complete mastery of the Way to the point that their barrier can't be penetrated.  If they -did- think that and they played their character in a way that publicized these beliefs they had about their abilities, I don't think it's unrealistic that this would be questioned. 
People might figure it out soon enough, as Pale Horse said, that they can get through the person's barrier...in which case they might then consider them kooky for thinking their barrier was inpenetrable in the first place.
The other side of the coin is that they simply think you're some sort of abomination for believing you have uncommon and overly powerful mind abilities.

I don't think anyone is really coming out and saying "NO DON'T DO THAT YOU CAAAAN'T!"  I think what people are saying is that it's quite against the norm, and this sort of character would very likely have to face some real consequences; whether it's a quick death, a long torturous death, or simply people shunning and avoiding the lunatic, just to name a few possibilities.

[Jinxed]

I never stated barrier to be inpenetrable in the first place.
I simply stated that maintaining a barrier to avoid being contacted via the way can be done without staff's intervention and the person I debated with decided that I claim for unbrekable shield.

And to explain how can barrier be used in order to roleplay a person incapable of efficient communication through the way I must, yet again, stress out what I explained just a post above.
Let me just put emphasis on this moment: character is incapable. It is a handicap. Placed willingly by player. Character is inferior. Not superior.

The way makes character sad.
Character does not like being sad.
Character tries, to his best capabilities, avoid using the way.
Character tries to prevent it by maintaining the barrier.
Character does not have any special powers and neither claims to have them.
Character simply maintains the barrier for as long as possible.
If someone contacts character's mind when barrier is down - character is sad.
If someone contacts character's mind through the barrier - character is even more sad.

How and why it applies to original question of roleplaying a character uncapable of speech:
Naturally, players will try bypass communicating with mute through the gestures.
It makes sense - simply contacting the mind is much more handy than trying to figure out what this person wants when they point at their belly, clap once and make a low groan.
On other hand, it basicly devalues all effort that player of mute character invests into descriptive writing, attempting to create interesting ways to communicate through gestures and basic sounds.
Hence, it makes sense for such character to also be inefficient in communicating through the way - because if mute is capable of the way it makes the whole point moot and mute is no longer mute.

I would understand the concept being attacked for forcing other players into deciphering descriptive writing: gestures and body language. Because it is, well, basicly this - forcing other player into doing something that can be done much easier.
What I dont understand is people attacking the concept over suspicions of powergame.

[Lizzie]

I never stated barrier to be inpenetrable in the first place.
I simply stated that maintaining a barrier to avoid being contacted via the way can be done

Your second sentence is different wording for the first sentence. "Maintaining a barrier" means keeping it up 24/7. You *cannot* maintain barrier. It isn't codedly possible. Barrier wears down even if no one breaks through it. It just comes right down all by itself. It can also be taken down by someone who is able to get through it. And - even if you have *master* level barrier, sometimes - you just can't get that barrier put up. Sometimes it takes a few tries. Sometimes there are blocks in the game that prevent you from putting it up at all.

You can't maintain a barrier.

[Kankfly]

The way I see it, it seems to me that what Jinxed mean by 'maintaining the barrier' actually means 'maintaining the barrier for x moment of time' instead of '24/7'.

Anyway, I think we scared Jinxie away.

I love that new players come in with fresh character ideas, and your idea is really interesting, Jinxie. But I'm going to give you the same advice the other players are giving you: Start with a simple concept and learn the game. Get in there and experience it for yourself before you start with more complex characters, because reading the docs are great and all, but they're just that: Docs. It isn't until you actually experience the game before you actually get the 'vibe' of the Zalanthan environment.

Also, we're really nice people. Things just got a bit heated in here.

[Riev]

I was going to make a quote tree trying to put this all a bit more simply, as its devolved into quite a discussion, however:

What I see at the core is Jinxed insisting that "it can be roleplayed" and Lizzie insisting "there are coded limitations".

I'm on Lizzies side here... there are times where "it can be roleplayed" will work, but we are playing a MUD for a reason. There are CODED limitations to what can be done without staff assistance. The idea of "being cut off from the Way" is not as simple as "put up a barrier". For many of the reasons already discussed, up to and including the fact that there are specific abilities/spells in came to be able to do this and they are either removed or VERY RARELY given out. It is not as simple as "I don't want to participate".

I'm always for roleplaying out a scene, but because YOU want to roleplay it out doesn't mean someone else has to. If they take your non-response to their Ways as an insult, they have every right to be mad, because they know the messages got through. Its how Psionics works in the gameworld.



On topic, though? I wish I had HALF the creative ideas Jinxie does.

[Kankfly]

Well, I think what Jinxed is trying to say is that there are ways around the code. That it's not absolute. There's a middle ground, and while Jinxed's suggestion on the work around might not work, the idea is there. By talking with the staff, perhaps Jinxie can tweak the concept to fit with the ic environment in a way that makes sense.

Like for example, playing a character that isn't familiar in using the Way, due to her background. I have met a PC ig before that had trouble communicating with the Way, and if staff is fine with that, then it must be ok.

[azuriolinist]

All the power to them if someone wants to roleplay having little to no ability to psionically communicate to others, in my opinion. It doesn't have to mean that they aren't able to receive psionic communications from others, but I think roleplaying having an incapacity to actually send psis should be permitted. And, yeah, if others are going to roleplay being affronted and take it as if they're being ignored, I think that's totally legitimate, seeing that psionics are something of an everyday thing to Zalanthans.

You tend to see little variety with peoples' psionic abilitiess, and having someone with such a limited ability with psionics would be pretty nice to come across. It might be classified as a 'mutation' of sorts.

Anyway, in the end, bringing it up with staff is the best way to go about it.

Also...

I wish I had HALF the creative ideas Jinxie does.

[Synthesis]

This is the kind of background that gets you killed within 2 hours of playtime, because you put too much thought into it.

Born in Allanak to two parents.

Likes ale.

Likes to fight.

Hates elves.

Live for 100 days played.

[Armaddict]

This is the kind of background that gets you killed within 2 hours of playtime, because you put too much thought into it.

Born in Allanak to two parents.

Likes ale.

Likes to fight.

Hates elves.

Live for 100 days played.

Ha!  Up until more recently, this was like a rule of thumb for me.  Throw away characters would live long.  Character concepts I'd brainstormed and come to love and needed to play died in <5 days.

[Delirium]

Throw away = no pressure
Elaborate concept = tons of pressure

no pressure = more fun
tons of pressure = less fun

more fun = more likely to stick with
less fun = good god die already

There, my very scientific breakdown of why throwaways are the best.

[650Booger]

Ive been keeping my backgrounds as vague as possible because I havent learned enough lore yet.

[Lizzie]

Ive been keeping my backgrounds as vague as possible because I havent learned enough lore yet.

I like keeping my backgrounds more or less vague, because it's easier for me to fill in the blanks after I get into my character's personality. I can't do that til I start playing her (it's always a her - tried playing a male, sucked at it, won't make that mistake again). I know, I do things backward. Create the personality, and then figure out how she got that way. An example for one of my characters (hypothetical):

Lizzie is a typical rinth-rat. Mother was an elven rinthi whore, father was a random drunken merchant with enough sids to pay for an hour one day. Soon as she was born, mommy dearest took one look at her round ears and rounded face and short stature, and shipped her promptly off to the orphanage. The Matron made sure to let Lizzie know that she was a lowly breed who should be grateful to exist. Now too old for the orphanage, she slinks off through the alleys to figure out how to survive with nothing but her wits and an interest in procuring shiny things to guide her. Annnnnd......GO.

[a french mans shirt]

I need a vague background because I don't know what I'm going to end up doing. If I say I hate elves to the core of my soul, and an elf comes along who is my only source for buying <thing>, that kind of leaves me stuck. If I say I want to get into Kurac in my background, it leaves my hands tied, like I -have- to enter Kurac.

Some things should be included, like if you used to smuggle spice, or you hear voices.

[Dunetrade55]

I need a vague background because I don't know what I'm going to end up doing. If I say I hate elves to the core of my soul, and an elf comes along who is my only source for buying <thing>, that kind of leaves me stuck. If I say I want to get into Kurac in my background, it leaves my hands tied, like I -have- to enter Kurac.

Some things should be included, like if you used to smuggle spice, or you hear voices.

Or if your character wants to murder all undesirables and you meet an undesirable whose company your PC enjoys, that can complicate matters.

[evilcabbage]

make that the -start- of their murdering undesirables ?