Psionics: Ideas and discussion on etiquette

[Chettaman]

First I'd like to say that I think that both contact and barrier should be usable in combat. Not only that, but it shouldn't be broken because combat starting.

instead of it being impossible, I would suggest it being /very/ difficult. Maybe something that makes it too dangerous to be usable. Since using the way is so attention consuming let me go to the extreme and say max stun drops to 20 when combat starts. This way - it's still very possible to use the way. But obviously dangerous.
Barrier is different, I think, in terms of use. Instead of sending to some other mind in comparison to just being in your own mind. Let's say max stun drops to 40.

as for how the skill improves... everyone starts at master, which is lame. But... how about if everyone's ability to use the contact skill is master-like instead? What if the level of the contact skill is reflected in - not how easy it is to find someone or how often one suffers from the way, but instead... it was only reflected in how much max stun is taken from someone who decides to use the way. Novice contacters max stun become 50 on a regular and it improves as the skill improves. Not the same with barrier.

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etiquette of psionics

I'd like to discuss this. If this ability that everyone has takes up so much attention... just how much concentration is needed exactly and/or does it depend on the character? and how should one actually "feel" when one is concentrating so hard?

[Dar]

First I'd like to say that I think that both contact and barrier should be usable in combat. Not only that, but it shouldn't be broken because combat starting.

Why?

[nauta]

Can I slip a question in related to op -- this is something that I've never fully understand since I'm of the 'master' contact generation -- never played (much) when contact wasn't at 'master'.

So:

Q1. Is it possible to actually use 'barrier' to block someone (with master contact) from contacting you?

As far as I can tell the answer is: not really.. or very very very rarely?  Unless I've just gotten incredibly lucky.  It's hard to tell from the PC perspective here.

Q2. If the answer is 'no' to Q1: Should we make barrier more effective against contact?

Sorry to sneak this in, but it's sort of related, right?

[Dar]

Barrier, as well as all other psionic skills are reliant on another parameter that's not shown on a skill/stat sheet. If you've ever tried to contact long played characters, especially if they're merchants, politically heavy personalities, or just people who tend to wheel/deal/and be in demand a lot, you'd notice that their barrier is a LOT stronger, then just some dude who spammed barrier up to max, but never actually spoke with anyone and doesnt plan to.


It is possible to make barrier nigh impossible to break. It just takes a hell of a lot of gameplay.

[Chettaman]

I also want to add:
"nosave contact and barrier" idea. So you can choose whether or not to accept the sudden loss to stun or not - when combat starts.

Mostly for the fact that I don't like not being able to do something period.
but I have more, less selfish reasons.

In case you /really/ want to send a message.
In case you /REALLY/ want to protect your mind.

upon re-reading. I realize those too, are quite selfish.

[Riev]

With the Contact boost, Master Barrier for the majority of players is useless from Novice through Mastery. It doesn't block anyone from contacting you, and very often is just a useless waste of stun. You CAN barrier when they -are- talking to you and it will stop them, but they can just re-contact to break it.

I'm not saying buff barrier, per se, but right now its only useful against a VERY SPECIFIC set of abilities the average person doesn't come against.

[Desertman]

With the Contact boost, Master Barrier for the majority of players is useless from Novice through Mastery. It doesn't block anyone from contacting you, and very often is just a useless waste of stun. You CAN barrier when they -are- talking to you and it will stop them, but they can just re-contact to break it.

I'm not saying buff barrier, per se, but right now its only useful against a VERY SPECIFIC set of abilities the average person doesn't come against.

This.

[Chettaman]

I disagree. My characters with low stats even have a great ability to block in coming transmissions. I play a lot - and whenever I return to wherever with my characters everyone's like, "I thought you were dead. I've been trying to find your mind for weeks!"
Maybe I'm doing something different. ... muahaha!

but still. Even that can be added to the idea. Instead of the level of contact affecting the ability to find someone's mind it can affect instead:
- how often one suffers from the way.

And maybe breaking through barriers shouldn't be a thing non-psionosists can do.
-- adding to that. What do you all think about how barrier works making people literally invisible to the way? You don't get the echo, "The mind you seek is blocked." You simply can't find them. I think it's reasonable to not get a "your blocked" message, but what do you all think?

[Desertman]

I disagree. My characters with low stats even have a great ability to block in coming transmissions. I play a lot - and whenever I return to wherever with my characters everyone's like, "I thought you were dead. I've been trying to find your mind for weeks!"
Maybe I'm doing something different. ... muahaha!

but still. Even that can be added to the idea. Instead of the level of contact affecting the ability to find someone's mind it can affect instead:
- how often one suffers from the way.

And maybe breaking through barriers shouldn't be a thing non-psionosists can do.

You can't be sure they just haven't been trying to find your mind when you are offline.

The only way you can know if this is working how you think it is working is for you to stand infront of them with your barrier on and have them try to contact you repeatedly to test it.

Otherwise, this isn't really much proof of anything.

I know I've gotten into more than a few heated "Way Debates" with people and they have zero trouble crushing my barrier repeatedly over and over and over again.

[Chettaman]

You can't be sure they just haven't been trying to find your mind when you are offline.

I remember I'd gotten the schedule down of the people I played with and even contacted them and just blocked myself up. I know it seems like I'm making stuff up, but it's totally truth.
Sure, you're right. There's no legitimate proof, but man... I'm very sure on this one. I was also pretty far from anyone that might try and I suspect that helped.

I'm telling ya'll. Barrier works.

Still think mundanes shouldn't be able to pierce mind shields.
-- adding to that. What do you all think about how barrier works making people literally invisible to the way? You don't get the echo, "The mind you seek is blocked." You simply can't find them. I think it's reasonable to not get a "your blocked" message, but what do you all think?

[Desertman]

You can't be sure they just haven't been trying to find your mind when you are offline.

I remember I'd gotten the schedule down of the people I played with and even contacted them and just blocked myself up. I know it seems like I'm making stuff up, but it's totally truth.
Sure, you're right. There's no legitimate proof, but man... I'm very sure on this one. I was also pretty far from anyone that might try and I suspect that helped.

I'm telling ya'll. Barrier works.

Then you are doing something everyone else isn't dong. So barrier doesn't "work". It just works for one person which doesn't really help the game population use barrier in any meaningful way unfortunately.

Maybe barrier doesn't need to be changed and we just need to update the docs to better let everyone in on your secret you have discovered so barrier becomes useful to more than one person playing the game?

[Chettaman]

While I have no problem with exposing secrets, I usually respect the staff's request or whatever to not spread these knowledges openly. Unless I'm hanging out with gunner blaster.

Anyway.

I still think mundanes shouldn't be able to pierce mind shields. I think that would make everyone happy. -- at least, not as easily as they do now.
-- adding to that. What do you all think about how barrier works making people literally invisible to the way? You don't get the echo, "The mind you seek is blocked." You simply can't find them. I think it's reasonable to not get a "your blocked" message, but what do you all think?!

[Desertman]

I like the idea of people being able to disappear if they want to disappear and put forth the effort of both physically relocating to a remote area AND keeping their barrier in play.

As it stands now any plotline you want to be part of that includes you "going away" doesn't work because of our global instant unfailing cellphone access.

It also REALLY screws up playing nefarious sorts since you can't really hide from anyone.

All it takes is one of your keywords getting out and you are the most popular mind in the entire game.

[azuriolinist]

What do you all think about how barrier works making people literally invisible to the way? You don't get the echo, "The mind you seek is blocked." You simply can't find them. I think it's reasonable to not get a "your blocked" message, but what do you all think?!

I'm ipretty sure it already does this, at extremely high levels. I joined the game when a character starts off with already-mastered contact, but there have been a couple of PCs whose barriers I couldn't get through, with it echoing "You are unable to reach their mind." And I know for a fact that they were online, because I was in the same room as them. To be honest, these were PCs who've lived at least a few years IG, so that might be one factor?

[Chettaman]

Yeah.
Escaping pursuers: you're going to get caught if all you do is live/hide in the ''nearest'' settlement. I've always had to go to extremes to not be found. And people might of found my mind, but I mean... I could always just say I'm someone else, not respond or barrier again. They /weren't/ going to find me. (after extreme hiding)
You kind of have to expect being found in a populated place. It only takes someone stalwart enough to want to find you. ... and being stalwart isn't that tough with five or six possible populated locations.
- if you're a bad guy: Don't do too much so that the city's leaders care about you. Soldiers and such, are no problem. -- also look out for vengance seekers.

Deciding to just disappear: If you just decide to disappear one day in spite of all your friends and ambitions, people who find you are going to stumble upon you. And it's easy enough for you to disappear again, if they're not actively pursuing you. ... unless you go to a remote area in which case only once in a while someone may stumble upon you and you can deal with them as you please.

Escaping anyone with psionics or certain magicks: Ha! Goodluck. Not impossible, but definitely much more difficult.

@azure - well yeah. Minds are already invisible when blocked. I was asking what you thought of that compared to getting the message "something is blocking your telepathy".

Who was it that said ''Just wait. I'm going to kill you wall." heh ... I'm gonna make a villain one day. The most reasonable tyrant of a man you ever met is going to kill you all. And whoever said it first... I'll kill him better. And get away with it. But these are just empty words. Only action will prove my truth!

[Riev]

@Chetta - Something is blocking messages only comes up, IN THIS SITUATION, when they've already contacted you, and you barrier. Something is, in fact, blocking your telepathy. (This can happen for other reasons as well). Therefore, the messages are fine as they are.

- if you're a bad guy: Don't do too much so that the city's leaders care about you. Soldiers and such, are no problem. -- also look out for vengance seekers.

I honestly DO understand what you mean, but this is a terrible outlook in the game. You cannot play a bad person who is capable of escaping persecution or execution, because even if you use a distance factor, barrier doesn't do much for you. So the only way to solve it, in your mind, is to "don't do bad things because people might get mad". Again, I get it, but from a story perspective, its kinda hurty.

Also, if you're trying to be a raider around Red Storm, why would you base out of Morin's? Just so that your barrier is useful?




Barrier should not be "I'm barriered and nobody can get through" but it should be useful. I've WATCHED players log in, and immediately get 6 contacts, only 2 of which even talk. Sometimes you want to focus on your other aspects of your character, so why not let barrier be more or less "leave me alone"?

Its either that, or allow a certain script that completely blocks off connection to the way, but has other effects. You aren't part of the Way, but the loss and longing reduce your overall stun "You suffer from the LOSS of the way"?

[azuriolinist]

Welp, my bad. Misread that.

Huh. I thought it already worked so that it showed something blocking your telepathy or a similar message if there was a lower-level barrier up. Must've mixed it up. If it isn't already, I'd like it if it were based on the skill level, with a lower-skilled barrier echoing something blocking the contact or a similar message, and a higher-skilled barrier echoing you being unable to find their mind.

[Synthesis]

You used to be able to use contact in combat.  It was changed to the current situation, probably for good reasons.

PCs used to start out with a low contact skill.  It was changed to the current situation, probably for good reasons.

[Chettaman]

@Chetta - Something is blocking messages only comes up, IN THIS SITUATION, when they've already contacted you, and you barrier. Something is, in fact, blocking your telepathy. (This can happen for other reasons as well). Therefore, the messages are fine as they are.
**
Well yeah. I didn't specify, but I meant before contact is made.

- if you're a bad guy: Don't do too much so that the city's leaders care about you. Soldiers and such, are no problem. -- also look out for vengance seekers.

I honestly DO understand what you mean, but this is a terrible outlook in the game. You cannot play a bad person who is capable of escaping persecution or execution, because even if you use a distance factor, barrier doesn't do much for you. So the only way to solve it, in your mind, is to "don't do bad things because people might get mad". Again, I get it, but from a story perspective, its kinda hurty.
**
I didn't mean, The only way to solve it to "don't do bad things because people might get mad". - I said, "Don't do too much."
Example: If you're drinking and driving. Don't speed. --- and that isn't much of a rule or explaining what everyone's doing wrong. ... it's just a suggestion for people who may not realize that you can do a little "bad". Or a lot of "bad" depending on other factors. People may not even realize that those factors exist or maybe they don't consider them.The world isn't black and white. - right and wrong. Sometimes people don't know all of their potential or the potentials of others ... or they don't consider them.
If you're going to be a villain that's fine. What kind of villain you are is important. Are you going to be the careful villain, that knows exactly what he can get away with before a templar starts to care, or are you going to be the one that massacres people and you don't care who knows?.... or will you be the villain that tries to be careful, but is ignorant of the factors? -- there are more types of villains.


Also, if you're trying to be a raider around Red Storm, why would you base out of Morin's? Just so that your barrier is useful?
**
Yes. You pick and choose a hide out as well as you pick and choose the places you raid. - I understand the distance is quite a stretch, and I honestly would just pick some remote location close to my raiding places. - but if I were a bandit in this world where finding people is easy as cake, I would indeed have my character consider all of these things and, if I had to, would choose a place so far from my hunting grounds that it made sense that it would make me more difficult to find. Unless my character wasn't a good planner.

Barrier should not be "I'm barriered and nobody can get through" but it should be useful. I've WATCHED players log in, and immediately get 6 contacts, only 2 of which even talk. Sometimes you want to focus on your other aspects of your character, so why not let barrier be more or less "leave me alone"?
**
More than enough people complain about barrier not working for me to agree with you that barrier doesn't work.
I still like the idea that normal people shouldn't be allowed to pierce blocked minds. Then you would /need/ a templar to find that person so easy.

Its either that, or allow a certain script that completely blocks off connection to the way, but has other effects. You aren't part of the Way, but the loss and longing reduce your overall stun "You suffer from the LOSS of the way"?

True. There were probably good reasons for the change.
I still want to discuss the etiquette of using psionics, though. Especially roleplaying how much concentration it takes, because I'll be at the bar chatting up a storm - or in a brawl and wayin' the hell out of people like it were nothin'. And then I think, I'm such a twink...

[Desertman]

Eh, I think roleplaying the difficulty of The Way was more of a thing before it started at Master.

I used to see people RP difficulty with The Way regularly.

I haven't seen it in a very long time but should I really? I mean....they are masters.

[Chettaman]

I haven't seen it in a very long time but should I really? I mean....they are masters.

xD

I mean... it must be difficult, right? We can't do it while actually fighting.
And I want to stop and be like, "Everyone hold on. I'm wayin' the master crafter. ... you know I can't walk and way at the same time... >nosave subdue "Alright. Pick me up." but everyone gives me shit.

Just like when I want to roleplay /not/ skinning everything in the blink of an eye - instead doing it later when we have more time to. What is everyone giving me shit for? This stuff is supposed to be difficult!!

[nauta]

I sometimes see people (and I do so myself) RP being a bit light headed when the stun gets down below a certain threshold.  Of course, I also forget to check the stun level a lot, hence my PCs always passing at the most awesome moments.

I also sometimes hemote when I enter commands like 'psi', 'contact', and 'barrier'.

I'm all for an enforced hemote when you enter the commands 'psi', 'contact', and 'barrier', something vague and generic, like: (You notice: The guy's forehead wrinkles in concentration a moment.)  Not only would it allow villains to get upset at you, it would also have a kind of OOC effect on me at least: I find it hard to resist the OOC urge to get impatient at people I'm RPing a scene with when they suddenly just drop out of the scene -- I can't tell if they went AFK, if they just aren't interested in RPing with me any more (not likely!), or if they are waying.

Maybe have it occur every fifth psi or something.

[Molten Heart]

.

[path]

How about an hemote like, "so and so appears to be concentrating" more benign. I usually act a little less "with it" when I'm waying, but that's because sometimes I am less with it. For low stun, yeah, dizziness of headaches.

Hey Chetta, don't let them get you down. You do you. I support your efforts. We need to keep setting the bar high. Via waiting to skin though, just keep an eye on the passage of time. It goes so quick in game! That bestial corpse is going to start to reek in the dry heat before too long.

[Desertman]

I haven't seen it in a very long time but should I really? I mean....they are masters.

xD

I mean... it must be difficult, right? We can't do it while actually fighting.
And I want to stop and be like, "Everyone hold on. I'm wayin' the master crafter. ... you know I can't walk and way at the same time... >nosave subdue "Alright. Pick me up." but everyone gives me shit.

Just like when I want to roleplay /not/ skinning everything in the blink of an eye - instead doing it later when we have more time to. What is everyone giving me shit for? This stuff is supposed to be difficult!!

I personally liked the days of The Way being obviously more difficult and thus being roleplayed as more difficult.

I'm right there with you man.