Kidnapping?

[nauta]

It's not secret.  At all.

It kind of is if it isn't in the documentation.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Poison

I can think of a few of those on that list that would be effective, though, but not in the form given to us by documentation.

(I'm definitely not advocating that the secret be spilled on the gdb, but as with a lot of the 'find out IC' things, I'd prefer either (a) documentation tell us where we can go to find out IC, e.g., House Dasari knows a lot about poisons or (b) in the documentation itself.)

[Jihelu]

House Dasari also doesn't exit anymore so lel

Kidnapping isn't something I see as very profitable anyway. Less you kidnap the Templars sex buddy I don't see it going well, and even then once they get them back they might just hunt you down to the ends of the world in an absurd fashion anyway.
Just kill them and send them the head.

[Delirium]

Kidnapping plots can work - and have worked - beautifully well. They're essentially impossible now. Which I think is a shame.

[Narf]

I think it's the ransoming aspect of the kidnapping that's the least workable. If you could come up with another reason to kidnap people it'd probably work better.

Forcing them to fight in your underground pit fights for their freedom sounds like more fun anyways.

[Erythil]

When people are saying 'this already exists, find out IC,' can I please point out that I've been playing this game for about a decade and I have found out IC about the means that exist to do this, and they are all tied to either karma roles or sponsored roles.  I'm talking about tools for the common man, not your mulish noble mindbender with a secret base warded against apparitions of psychically projected ankheg janitors.

[nauta]

your mulish noble mindbender with a secret base warded against apparitions of psychically projected ankheg janitors.

Now I just need to figure out how to sig that.

[Jihelu]

When people are saying 'this already exists, find out IC,' can I please point out that I've been playing this game for about a decade and I have found out IC about the means that exist to do this, and they are all tied to either karma roles or sponsored roles.  I'm talking about tools for the common man, not your mulish noble mindbender with a secret base warded against apparitions of psychically projected ankheg janitors.

Don't forget how they have master sap and mon (Redacted)

[hyzhenhok]

When run-of-the-mill criminal schemes need extraordinary magickal or inhuman support, you know there's a problem.

[valeria]

I'd like to see mundane ways to accomplish things like tying people up, blindfolding them, and gagging them.  Things that you should be able to do but just aren't coded in at present.  I'd rather see those before seeing any way-effective poisons.

[nauta]

I'd like to see mundane ways to accomplish things like tying people up, blindfolding them, and gagging them.  Things that you should be able to do but just aren't coded in at present.  I'd rather see those before seeing any way-effective poisons.

IDEA:

a simple blindfold: when worn on the face slot, you can't see.  (You can still remove it yourself, but I bet your captor isn't going to like that.)

a simple mouthgag: when worn on the face slot, you can't speak.  (Ditto about removing it.)

a simple wrist bind: when worn on the hands slot, you can't draw, hold, or wield.  (Ditto.)

a simple leg bind: when worn on the feet slot, you can't move. (Ditto.)

a small ball of dung: when worn on the face slot, you can't smell.  (Can't remove it.)

a simple wax earplug: when worn on the face slot, you can't hear.

[valeria]

Also if your hands are bound, hey, good luck removing that blindfold.

[manipura]

I'd like to see mundane ways to accomplish things like tying people up, blindfolding them, and gagging them.  Things that you should be able to do but just aren't coded in at present.  I'd rather see those before seeing any way-effective poisons.

These sorts of things would be nice.
I guess what sticks out in my mind though is the "aren't coded in" part.

Are there really that many people who don't play along with the RP when someone ties up/gags/blindfolds their PC, because 'codedly' they can make a Houdini-esque escape?
If so, that's lame.

[BadSkeelz]

In my experience, yes. Even for otherwise well-played characters, I think adrenaline and self-preservation overrides a desire to RP and respect the virtual world. The only way to ensure anyone really does anything is to lay the Code on them.

[manipura]

In my experience, yes. Even for otherwise well-played characters, I think adrenaline and self-preservation overrides a desire to RP and respect the virtual world. The only way to ensure anyone really does anything is to lay the Code on them.

Well that's unfortunate.

[Zenith]

I have never seen a kidnapping. But I've seen players follow along when ordered against their PCs will by nobles and templars.  Not everyone would run. Even when bad things happen.

[hyzhenhok]

Complaining about people not playing along with someone emoting that they've been tied up isn't really fair, because there was no opportunity for a coded contest. If your character is a bumbling idiot who emotes tying up my slick master thief elf who is covered in slippery sewage, of course I'm going to emote right back that I slipped out of my bindings. Or if I'm a mul, that I broke them with brute force. Until there's coded support, it's not fair to decide what other players can and cannot do in response to your emotes. As with all non-coded stuff, it's only fair for you to emote what your character attempted, and to leave it up to the other player to decide what happens next.

So let's make it coded. Make the kidnapping suite of tools part of the "subdue" skill. You use your subdue skill when you bind someone's arms or legs. That person can try to break their bonds by sheer struggle by using the >flee command, just like if they were subdued. However, this would be broadcast to everyone in the room, so your captor would know you were trying it. This would be a strength + agility + flee check against the binder's subdue skill. You'd stack the odds such that even someone with high stats and master flee would struggle against a master subduer's bindings. Then, also allow covert attacks on bindings via the sleight of hand skill, so characters who should be slippery can actually be so. If you wanted to go crazy, you could include the quality level of various types of bonds: cheap ropes < strong ropes < templar-owned iron shackles for VIP prisoners.

I think that's the very least amount of implementation I would want if this were implemented at all. The basic point is that if tying someone up is going to be a coded thing, there should be coded ways to defeat it. (Disclaimer: this is a hypothetical specific example of just one of many ways one could implement the general idea. Please no quibble over ideas like "zomg don't tie it to subdue, that would make maxing subdue way too easy for twinks.)

[lostinspace]

I've seen an abduction, as others have stated, it's the ransom that is the hard part.

[BadSkeelz]

Complaining about people not playing along with someone emoting that they've been tied up isn't really fair, because there was no opportunity for a coded contest. If your character is a bumbling idiot who emotes tying up my slick master thief elf who is covered in slippery sewage, of course I'm going to emote right back that I slipped out of my bindings. Or if I'm a mul, that I broke them with brute force. Until there's coded support, it's not fair to decide what other players can and cannot do in response to your emotes. As with all non-coded stuff, it's only fair for you to emote what your character attempted, and to leave it up to the other player to decide what happens next.

That's a likely theory, hyzhenhok. It's why I'd like to see subduing ropes and blindfolds, since (in my personal experience) about 60% of players will do what it takes to keep their PCs alive if faced with no coded opposition to their actions. This includes things like not walking in to the lockable room, giants having flashes of suspicion, etc.

I agree with the rest as well. If you're making a Coded Aggressive action, there need to be Coded Defensive measures as well.

I've seen an abduction, as others have stated, it's the ransom that is the hard part.

I've magickal abductions, and I guess I did a few mundane ones too. I don't see what's so hard about the ransoming part, though. "Leave the large on the midden heap by West Dragon's tonight, and your boy will be free come dawn."

If you need someone to convey the message, that's what expendable newbies are for.

[Desertman]

I put a man down and continued to knock him out as he would wake up so that I could peepee in his hair and leave him with no pants in the desert.

I knocked him out and drug him off to do this.

Technically, I kidnapped him I guess.....for my peepee needs.

[QuillDipper]

Man your mudsex is weird.

It'll be even weirder with blindfolds

[lostinspace]

I've magickal abductions, and I guess I did a few mundane ones too. I don't see what's so hard about the ransoming part, though. "Leave the large on the midden heap by West Dragon's tonight, and your boy will be free come dawn."

If you need someone to convey the message, that's what expendable newbies are for.

Well, you'll have to wrap up loose ends, but I suppose this would work.

[Fathi]

There are creative workarounds for this, but the main issue I have with most of them is that they make being kidnapped not so fun for the victim. I think that's where most people's objections to the "just KO them" or "just keep them in a pitch black room" or "do <this other more IC thing>" or "use magick" ideas comes up. If I'm gonna put the effort into kidnapping another PC, I don't want to force them into a situation that limits their ability to RP. And I want plots like that to be accessible to any guild, provided you've got motivation and elbow grease.

So, nth-ing my support for this idea. Based on the way certain other things function ingame I think a more common solution to this problem could even be done with existing code.

[BadSkeelz]

If someone's annoyed my PC to the point where kidnapping them is on the table, I would just as soon kill them. Codedly easier and more effective.

[Fathi]

If someone's annoyed my PC to the point where kidnapping them is on the table, I would just as soon kill them. Codedly easier and more effective.

Yeah well it's also well known you're ALLERGIC TO FUN.

[BadSkeelz]

I am the antihistamine Armageddon deserves.