I'm not applying for that Borsail role, but if I were...

[Refugee]

I would personally do away with the school idea and just make Gladiators an "open mic night" type job. Run events frequently, allow drop-ins. Try and attract the brand-new PCs with nothing to lose by offering them coin and and a bit of rep to win.

This is what I've been lobbying for.

[Refugee]

When a recent Borsail provided the pbase with creative and bloody games, even the Byn began to refuse to play for pay.

Just sayin', it's not as easy as you think it would be.  They do try.

[BadSkeelz]

Some people don't want to trust their PCs to proven troll-nobles.

The only type of PC you'll get to volunteer regularly for the Arena are those with nothing to lose: super new or super old, looking for a way out.

[Lizzie]

Yes Dryab, also it requires that all contestants stay alive long enough to train appropriately prior to the match. It can't be much fun if you have 6 "groups" all sponsoring their own gladiator, and they train them and the first group loses theirs in the first RL week - the second loses theirs shortly after the first 3 RL weeks - the third one will be on vacation the week of the match and can't attend afterall, the fourth one's player stores out of boredom because the grind wasn't as much fun as he thought it'd be. After the first RL month, the second group manages to get a new gladiator but it's a new PC with all "novice" and "apprentice" skills. And now you have hyped up this big arena match with - three contestants, one of whom is guaranteed to lose because he only has 2 RL weeks of in-game training while the other two have been working on it for a couple of RL months.

I have to say, I agree with everything you wrote!

... and I think my particular plan to Make Gladiators Great Again accommodates all of your concerns. 

(I am applying)

I hope you succeed! I'd love to see a solid Gladiator Games schedule of Arena events in Arm. Past history shows it's not "just a matter of" anything - it's complicated, and often results in lack of interested participants. It'd be great to see someone who can turn that around!

[Drayab]

Your level-headed pragmatism will not dampen my untested optimism.

[BadSkeelz]

Go for ittttttttt.

Also, some of my funnest Arm experiences have been in the Arena. I do encourage people to try it out.

[Refugee]

I think some of the people posting their ideas here should respond to the role call.  Maybe they can be the one who figures out how to make it work!

[wizturbo]

I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward.  Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome.  It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers.  A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such... 

I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it.  People will treat them like the bad asses they are.

[valeria]

TLDR: Three pages of players proudly proclaiming they'll pass on playing Borsails. Well, shit!

I would loooove to play another Borsail.  Just not right now.

[Beethoven]

Probably too soon...otherwise I might.

[Patuk]

I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward.  Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome.  It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers.  A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such... 

I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it.  People will treat them like the bad asses they are.

Roman graffiti confirms for them to basically have football celebrity status in how women viewed them, at least. It's really funny to read some of those things.

[Vwest]

People actually don't want to play gladiators because they put a lot of work into their PCs and don't want to lose them in an arena spectacle.  Players are (understandably, I think) skittish about getting into the arena.

Ignored most of the thread because a Borsail without Stellvia might as well be Fale. Sorry.

One of the things that stands out about the Arena is that the things you fight in there are scaled different from the things you would fight normally. If I get comfortable fighting a couple braxat in the world and agree to fight a couple in the Arena for Borsail, I'm going to get my face ripped off. They're scaled much, much higher and I know at least one player who lost a warrior in there and swears up and down it was 'Staff' that got him as some kind of punishment.

I had a similar experience when my character, who could take on three or so X in the wild was being ripped to pieces by one Arena version of the same thing. It's something I've noticed across a few Arena adventures, so I'm reasonably confident it's a scaling thing, rather than a "let's 'roid up that jozhal for the lols" thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, here.

Ignoring the PC-PC gladiator angle, I think a lot more people would show an interest in fighting critters in Arena RPTs if there was more consistency in critter scaling.

Also, the rewards thing. Come risk your 50 day warrior for an amazing thousand coins is... kind of a joke, really.

[wizturbo]

If staff built a Borsail gladiator training facility (or converted the useless wyvern compound into it), and then allowed Borsails to hire gladiators...  You'd see shit happen.  But Borsail having such small clan caps relative to Oash makes that an impossibility.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

If staff built a Borsail gladiator training facility (or converted the useless wyvern compound into it), and then allowed Borsails to hire gladiators...  You'd see shit happen.  But Borsail having such small clan caps relative to Oash makes that an impossibility.

I'm pretty convinced at this point in the thread that staff support is needed. Documentation confirming the social benefits + logistical support for recruitment and training.

[Tuannon]

Renenutet..

I would play a Borsail again, but not a highborn Borsail.

I have played Borsail Wyverns twice, one was a Sergeant and one was a Lieutenant.

The latter was also a 'retired' gladiator who lived until he was 90 or so years old.

[Erythil]

Hiring gladiators as Borsail would, I think, be a better addition to Borsail than the Amber Wyverns, and make them more interesting and relevant in the social scene.

I struggled as a leader in Borsail to think of things for my Wyverns to do that wouldn't get them all killed.  This is in part down to me being a bad clan lead, but also in part because capturing monsters for the Arena isn't really enough stuff for an entire military clan to stay occupied with.  And as for capturing slaves, a team that consists only of mudane humans will struggle to find and capture muls.

[Evilone]

Most gladiator matches in "Ancient Times" were not to the death. They were more like a bloodier version of the WWE than, say, Mortal Kombat.

I'm glad someone said it. I hope everyone can keep this sort of mindset in game. I guess some of you more bloodthirsty types might expect someone to always die or its boring?, but your probably more looking to see a combat show, with actors playing roles. Nobles don't want to pay 8000k+ on gladiator slaves and they die in their first fight, or even second fight. If there is a scaling issue with certain animals being more nasty in the arena than out in the wild, maybe that could be addressed by someone on staff? I've only been to a couple of games, but they have always been fun. Maybe those running the show need not jump to the big and nasties all the time, and save them for special occasions. Problem with that idea is do people only want to watch gladiators just fight multiple smaller critters and gith etc.? Fights with new gladiators should start small, and the show should get more nasty further into the season of the show, as the gladiator trains up.

I think you also have to give your 'professional' non slave gladiators some freedom for training. If you started a school or group, it won't be as big as say the Byn and a training partner might not always be around, so to avoid some boredom and help off peakers get them hunting critters in the wild for experience. Or Borsail could hire indy hunters/gmh hunting branches to capture wild beasts for the gladiator PC's to practice with and kill in a specific training room designed for such. Have the system work like the jails? Each 'cell' has a certain animal in it, and PC's can unlock and enter that room if a critter has been captured and put inside to fight it.

The rewards should be huge! Coins are great, but don't mean much when you don't have political clout to custom order whatever you want. If some Borsail PC's can get some custom work done, belts with pins, and all that jazz, special weapons and armour, you might draw in a few more interested. The champion gladiator cloak that is won from a big every couple year event is a great idea. I think a belt might be nicer if it could do the same thing with just a flag added to the item or it has to be actually modified to serve in such a way, just stick with a cloak.

Clan caps need to go or raise the limit to 5 at least? Tuluk closed. We consolidated so many other nobles and their aides and players. I hope this was actually so that clans in Allanak would see greater numbers then. Yet a cap is still imposed?

I've always wanted to play a pro gladiator, just the system doesn't seem really set up for it.

[Tisiphone]

Proposed solution: people with two or more karma have a second character slot open for gladiators only, much like staff do on a temporary basis for gladiator role calls, but permanent.

Gladiator characters would normally have very limited interaction outside of arena events (and, possibly, training) and start with boosted skills so you don't have to go through the X-day grind before you're able to kill a gladiatorial gith 1 v. 1.

Said characters would generally be under the purview of House Borsail, who could sell them or otherwise interact with them as desired.

Of course no gladiator should behave as though he knows or interacts in any way with the first character's knowledge. This should be easy, however, since gladiator roles would be restricted in their exposure, and it should be rare, since this capability is restricted to players with 2 or more karma (or 3, or 5, or whatever you like).

If you want to do anything outside the normal role of gladiators with your gladiator character, contact staff on a case-by-case basis. One example would be an escape, where the gladiator character becomes a 'normal' character no longer restricted to the gladiatorial role. In this case, I'd propose that the player must notify and get the agreement of staff beforehand via request, with a detailed explanation of how/why/etc., and that either pre-emptively or at the very least at completion (viz. when the gladiator is free or dead), one of the two characters is stored, decided beforehand.

At the same time, anyone caught abusing the gladiator second-character system for anything beyond its intended purpose would have both characters force-stored and karma docked an appropriate amount depending on the nature of the offense.

Of course, those are just my suggestions of guidelines to go with my suggestions for gladiators. If staff decided to pick any of this up, I trust they'd come up with their own.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward.  Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome.  It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers.  A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such... 

I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it.  People will treat them like the bad asses they are.

A long time ago, in a Ginka not so far away, Allanaki arena champions won great rewards - if I'm not mistaken, one won a copper helm, and another I believe a copper shield (or was it a spear?).

I agree with Wizturbo, if the rewards are there, the risks will be undertaken by willing participants.

[Norcal]

I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward.  Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome.  It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers.  A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such... 

I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it.  People will treat them like the bad asses they are.

A long time ago, in a Ginka not so far away, Allanaki arena champions won great rewards - if I'm not mistaken, one won a copper helm, and another I believe a copper shield (or was it a spear?).

I agree with Wizturbo, if the rewards are there, the risks will be undertaken by willing participants.

So, you are saying if you give it up, they will come?

[Dar]

Those who won these prizes werent gladiators though. They were fighters of AoD, Byn, Tor, and other battle clans that chose to participate in some grandeur competition. They were badasses, but they didnt earn their living in the arena.



PS: I havent actually played for the last 3 months. So I dont know what happened then. But prior to that, I actually enjoyed the Borsail Nobility and the schemes/plans/initiatives they were doing.

[Patuk]

You know, the more I think about it, the better an idea this seems. You could have overly dramatic posturing in public spaces and such about just how hard someone is going DOWN, threats/bribes for people to throw fights, people smuggling in spice or ungemmed magickers to give their fighers an unfair advantage.. The only problem is that eventually you'd get something of a 'hierarchy' in gladiators where some are obviously better than others, but even then you could keep the spectacle a thing by making things challenging simply by adding/substracting gear and such.

[Dar]

Wrestlemania?

[Inks]

If I wasn't totally into my role right now, I would probably actually put in my first rolecall app ever... But I am totally into my role right now, so take some initiative Jesse!

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Heh. Sorry that I'm playing something higher on my bucket list than N00ble? But nah, I would've never apped it. Seemed like a good idea this morning, but I would get bored and store within a month, if I made it that long.

As far as the fights, yeah I think straight up combat all day would get boring, and net the same results again and again. So, mixing them up would make for a great show. Random or odd weapon matches. Fights where maybe some random gith were thrown around to distract them. (Think the chained tigers in Gladiator). Or even something as ridiculous as a greased up jozhal hunt.

Also, team matches.

Lopsided fights tend to be more amongst opponents < 10 days played. After that, even against a superior opponent, warriors can usually hold your own long enough for it not to be a straight up slaughter.