I'm not applying for that Borsail role, but if I were...

[evilcabbage]

People actually don't want to play gladiators because they put a lot of work into their PCs and don't want to lose them in an arena spectacle.  Players are (understandably, I think) skittish about getting into the arena.

so basically everything i said.

nobody wants to lose their pcs because the noble or templar up there summoned a fucking gaj on their day 1 pc with 12 lines of desc and 15 lines of bio.

[valeria]

There are a lot of awesome things to do with nobles that have nothing to do with trying to make Borsail (or Tor) into a combat clan.  

If you consider tdescing your hair and gossip mongering to be awesome. I'm of the opinion that if the thing you're doing only effects the 6 people you're socially allowed to interact with (only 2 o whom you actually like), then it's probably not all that awesome, and really just part of the neigh invisible political circle jerk. But I guess some people are into that sort of thing...

I've played a noble relatively recently and that's really very unfair to both the players of nobles and the staff who are running them.  I can tell that if you've played a noble, it hasn't been in the last couple of years.  There is high level intrigue shit that goes on and actually affecting the game.  I can't lay down the IC info on you, because it's too recent, but I can confidently tell you that there is a lot going on up there that you are simply unaware of.

Maybe it's not for you (and if your goal is to make Borsail/Tor into a combat clan when staff isn't ready for it yet, it's probably not).  And that's fine.  It takes all sorts in the game.  But please don't disparage the work of other people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Still think it's more of an implementation problem than a simple "people don't want to play gladiators." Here's why.

1) People play Bynners. A LOT of Bynners. Sure, the role is 95% riding back and forth to Luirs. But when it comes time to do an RPT battle or raid, you're basically cannon fodder in a saddle. Probably not quite as dangerous, but most definitely up there.

2) The Kuraci fighting pit is a thing. A thing where long lived clannies from Allanak willingly took the sand against clannies from Tuluk to do live weapon fights. Also bar fights are a thing. Not a dangerous thing, unless you fuck up and type "kick" on accident, but a think people do constantly to prove they have the best hidden penis score or whatever.

We want to fight each other and prove who is tuffest. It's why we're here. It's why we prioritize strength and play dwarves.

What we DON'T want is to take a 1 day played noob warrior into the arena to get reamed by a basic "elven thief" NPC. And we don't want to take our warriors who've spent 10 days training in a completely different clan and throw them up against a Gaj. Because there's no reason too; it's probably against the mindset of the character.  

But I'd be willing to be that if there were some kind of gladiator program you could enroll in, train for a year, and then graduate to semi-frequent pit fights against manageable risks, or against each other (not to the death), people would play that role. But that would require staff support, which it seems gladiators don't have, outside of a rolecall every two years or so for one time throwaway actors.

Or maybe my Friday morning shower thoughts don't make great threads...

[wizturbo]

Except what noble or Templar actually does that??  None.  They don't just leash the Gaj and laugh.  

I've run about 20 arena events, pcs have died about two times.  Unless it was specifically meant as an execution. Ten percent death rate.  That's less than your typical RPT and you get to die in front of tons of spectators.

The problem with gladiator roles is all perception.  They are vulnerable to the whims of the nobility...but guess what, so is your indie hunter.  

What I do think is lacking is rewards.  Gladiators should be the most bad ass and respected commoners in Allanak.  They should get all the ladies/men they want and all kinds of special privledges.  

I want one thing.  An item that changes man/woman in the sdesc to Gladiator.  Give that item to players who play actual gladiators and build up a reputation so the sdesc change signifies they are famous.  Boom.  Instant success.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

There is high level intrigue shit that goes on and actually affecting the game.  ...  there is a lot going on up there that you are simply unaware of.

These two statements seem directly in contradiction of one another to me. Intrigue isn't what I'd call highly "game affecting". By it's very nature it's secretive and non-inclusive. Sure, it might affect political structures (which 90% of PCs aren't part of), but I don't think it has a large day to day impact on the general population at all.

Maybe it's not for you (and if your goal is to make Borsail/Tor into a combat clan when staff isn't ready for it yet, it's probably not).  And that's fine.  It takes all sorts in the game.  But please don't disparage the work of other people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

That's fair, and I apologize that my tongue in cheek got a bit too bitter and barby.

[Jihelu]

I'd like an item that changes sdesc to Gladiator.
If they do become a more popular thing of course.

[Majikal]

I want one thing.  An item that changes man/woman in the sdesc to Gladiator.  Give that item to players who play actual gladiators and build up a reputation so the sdesc change signifies they are famous.  Boom.  Instant success.

That is a pretty badass idea...

[nauta]

Every new Borsail noble for the last couple of years has tried to hire gladiators with spectacularly bad results.  People just don't want to play them.  I mean, you'd think they would, but they don't.

It's the first thing they all try to do.

I started playing just before the Wyverns close, I suppose.  My first PC met a couple Wyverns at the Gaj, drinking and being badass.  My very next PC sat at the gates of the arena (what?  that's the obvious place, right?) for weeks trying to get hired.  It's funny because I was a pickpocket, like all my characters.

Re: skittishness in the arena.  This seems true.  There have been two PC-PC arena events in my time here, and each had very poor participation.

I once had a brand new PC who volunteered and got roflstomped by a Sergeant in His Arm in the Arena -- two hits or something.  I got four kudos for that -and- staff approved my new PC within six minutes.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

The problem with gladiator roles is all perception.  They are vulnerable to the whims of the nobility...but guess what, so is your indie hunter.  

What I do think is lacking is rewards.  Gladiators should be the most bad ass and respected commoners in Allanak.  They should get all the ladies/men they want and all kinds of special privledges.  

This is more my speed. Picture this. You roll up your latest high strength warrior, "the hulking, brutish dwarf". You join the Borsail Fuschia Wyverns. (Working title.) You train for about 1 year. After a year of hard training, and watching your superior clannies fight in the arena form the side lines, it's your turn. You're put to the test. Maybe to execute some criminal they just caught, maybe to fight a dujat or three gith or something. It's not an easy test, but it's designed to be something you can and should succeed at. So you fight your fight and let the roaring crowd decide. If you get a roaring yay, you're in kid. If you get a roaring "boo", too bad. Train some more. But if you're in, now you're a known entity of badass. Folks in the bar know your name. Maybe you get some neat custom thematic items. (Idk about sdesc changing, but whatever floats your boat.) And you spend the rest of your days fighting increasingly harder fights, and jokeying for position of crowd favorite.

People don't want that role? Hmm... Okay. If you say so.

Why would Borsail hire gladiators when they have slaves? Well, slaves come from somewhere. So maybe your life oath to the clan is a cleverly disguised form of slavery, but less restrictive so that people don't burn out and get bored. Why would someone sell themselves into arena slavery? Debtors did it in Rome. So, for money I guess? Since slavery is so common, and not even viewed negatively, I think people wouldn't be as adverse to it in Zalanthas as they are in modern first world countries. Plus, Allanak seems like the kind of violent culture that would celebrate these types.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Re: skittishness in the arena.  This seems true.  There have been two PC-PC arena events in my time here, and each had very poor participation.

These used to be FAR more frequent. Mostly executions. But I swear there was a time where there were at least 2 arena bells ringing per IRL month. Not 1 a year, if that. The playerbase as a whole is WAY more skittish these days than back then, so it's not just the arena.

[evilcabbage]

fuck it.

time to be the change.

[Refugee]

Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators.  Different ideas have been tried.  There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things.  It just doesn't happen.  Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.

[Drayab]

it's impossible to make it happen.

Defeatist!!! 

If people have failed in the past, it's just because their plan wasn't good enough. Everybody loves gladiators, this much is true. I'm in the camp that it's the implementation that needs work.

[Warsong]

Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators.  Different ideas have been tried.  There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things.  It just doesn't happen.  Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.

It's probably because there'd be no way to actually train, unless you also get to be a Bynner at the same time, which... then you're mostly just a Bynner anyway. I bet a lot of people love the idea of playing a gladiator but don't much fancy the notion of being forever stuck at apprentice slashing weapons.

[evilcabbage]

who is this asshole called impossible so i can tell them to go fuck themselves please.

i need an address.


look, anything is possible if you smash your forehead against the splintering wooden door enough times.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Yeah, it would need staff level support of some kind to be done well enough to attract players, and it sounds like that hasn't happened.

I always laugh when people say "I can provide training" in game. I'm like, "that's okay, I have my own 300 coins..."

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Also, more power to ya cabbage, you delightfully crazy bastard!

[Decameron]

Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators.  Different ideas have been tried.  There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things.  It just doesn't happen.  Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.

It's probably because there'd be no way to actually train, unless you also get to be a Bynner at the same time, which... then you're mostly just a Bynner anyway. I bet a lot of people love the idea of playing a gladiator but don't much fancy the notion of being forever stuck at apprentice slashing weapons.

I think it stands to reason that every Borsail noble should attempt hiring gladiators and getting the arena functioning with relation to PC activity.

Why?

What does Borsail have? Let's boil it down to basics:

Oash has the gemmed.
Fale has the bards.
Tor had the Academy/Scoprions (when I played).

It isn't as though you could say ''sid and politics' is a monopoly owned by the Borsail. Nor is scheming, having aides, etc. However, without the Arena or a particular niche as seen above, you simply have a generic noble.

But look at all my slaves, Decameron! Yes, they are very pretty and very vnpc.

Let's be clear, Borsail is the best. However, in terms of viability, in getting PCs involved, and keeping them involved - the best at what, exactly? Outside of the Arena, they don't have an identifiable niche that could be used in the game itself.

This is not a knock against Borsail.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Let's be clear, Borsail is the best. However, in terms of viability, in getting PCs involved, and keeping them involved - the best at what, exactly? Outside of the Arena, they don't have an identifiable niche that could be used in the game itself.

Which is what baffles me about them even being open, in the current state of things, when there are other options. It kind of baffles me that it's so hard to get support to hire on good help for them when Fale seemingly has open license to run around hiring PCs for the most ridiculous made up jobs...

I'm trying to remember what the Amber Wyverns even did back when they were active. Ran around trying to subdue gith, iirc. And I think they had something to do with the Mul Outpost getting sacked?

A gladiator school > a slaver army,  in my not-so-humble opinion...  From a playability standpoint it gives you means and reasons to hire PCs. From a gameworld standpoint it gives you support from the masses who want to be entertained.

[BadSkeelz]

The problem with Gladiator roles is that by the time you "train up" a gladiator, the player behind them is not going to want to sacrifice their character.

I would personally do away with the school idea and just make Gladiators an "open mic night" type job. Run events frequently, allow drop-ins. Try and attract the brand-new PCs with nothing to lose by offering them coin and and a bit of rep to win.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Yeah, I believe that was idea #2 or #3. (We got stuck on #1.)

[evilcabbage]

2) Start a Citizen Gladiators program of some kind. Any indie or clannie who can get permission from their Sarge can join a group of fighters that hold an arena event every IG month (2 weeks IRL) or whatever.

3) Start a "Champion of Allanak" contest, held yearly, where the latest sparring circle tough guys (of Allanaki birth and human blood) can compete in the arena for the glory of being named the "Champion of Allanak." Bonus points for style if the title is accompanied by an improbably large and shiny belt.


as quoted from that person who is jack's opinion.


delicious ideas. i like them.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I'm particularly fond of #3. If you make the "Champion of Allanak" title come with its own custom mask you can wear during sparring, barring, and mudsex I -guarantee- you'll get a stable of fucking douche-nozzles willing to risk their lives for it. As much as the game doesn't need another mask...

[evilcabbage]

hey, how dare you.

i want that mask.

i think it should come with a special belt and a pin, though.

and then you can go in for it, and the number of pins equates to how much of a fucking badass you are. so if you see, like, a dude, you look dude's belt

A dozen blue pins are attached to the sides of this belt.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators.  Different ideas have been tried.  There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things.  It just doesn't happen.  Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.

Needs to be repeated for emphasis.

I had a pc as a part of the House roughly a year before the Wyverns closed, and some time after that. Every noble that came into the House tried, with vastly different methods to get something going, and it just fizzled. A lifetime in the Arena is a more certain death than something like joining the Byn. (It's potentially not, but the perception of the Arena is death, while the Byn is riding out and killing things.) And few people want 'certain death' as part of their PC, in my experience.

The few pcs found that were down for it? They couldn't be hired into the clan. So you throw them some coin, tell them to not die, and get some training under their belt. That initiation seems to be a command person spell for them to spend that coin on booze, run outside the walls naked, and headbutt the first mekillot they see.  

I adore the idea of a gladiator item though, and think the idea of it alone would attract some people.