Materials dispenser in Merchant Houses

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

This idea is about an npc like a cook who dispenses not food but a small range of -very- common materials that crafters in merchant houses need. Especially if they want to get to master and start making mastercrafts for the House. I've had to buy bones from the slaughterhouse before in order to do this and think that shouldn't be a common thing for someone who wants or need (relatively) quick expertise in a crafting field.

For example, a dispenser in Kadius could have: a piece of bone, a chalton horn, and a chalton hide
That way kadians wouldn't have to get in on a limited number of chalton regularly to satisfy the demands of a single crafter. The ivory would be useful, the bones make a variety of jewelry.

A dispenser in Salaar could have: a piece of bone, a chalton hide, and a small chunk of obsidian

That way you could make some nice weapons and tan hides. (I'm not sure what can be made from a chalton hide, so maybe add a scrab shell to the list.)

Having been a crafter in Kadius several times the only thing I didn't really like about it there was the frequency at which common materials I needed were at a low number or just gone. The hunters try and all, but they would have to work pretty hard to bring me five 'a piece of bone' every RL day on a regular basis for more than a week. Overhunting doesn't help things either.

[Drayab]

I'd actually go the other direction and do away with cooks in merchant houses that have hunter employees so that all the meat serves a functional purpose. NPC cooks make sense in the Byn or the Arm, but I'd rather see Kadius and Salarr having to eat what the hunters bring home, cooked by in-house crafters.

With respect, I think the game is best when players have to cooperate. If a crafter really needs to 'level up' quickly and the hunters can't keep up with demand, then the overseer needs to step up with some 'outside the box' ideas. There are more interesting ways to solve this problem than simply adding an item dispenser.

[Delirium]

Every time I've been in a merchant house the place has been overwhelmingly stocked with materials. This is a non issue. Work with the other pcs in your group to get what you need.

[BadSkeelz]

Every time I've been in a merchant house the place has been overwhelmingly stocked with materials. This is a non issue. Work with the other pcs in your group to get what you need.

Or find people outside of your group to get it for you. These kind of materials seem prime "new character needs coin and connections" jobs.

[Desertman]

Please no.

[Barsook]

I don't dig this, it takes away from the RP and the interaction.

[Desertman]

The simple solution is to hire more/better hunters.

If your current hunters aren't cutting it, fire them and hire better hunters or figure out another way to motivate them to perform.

If you have no hunters, figure out a way to attract good hunters.

If you can't attract good hunters then fire your current leaders and get leaders in place who can in fact attract good hunters.

This is an IC issue that should be handled IC'ly based entirely on the IC performance of the PC's that should be doing their IC jobs.

If they aren't, then they should be punished IC'ly for their failures.

(Not related to the OP, but this is a pet peeve of mine in general throughout the game, especially where sponsored roles are involved. I have seen time and again, up to and including from staff where IC willingness to do your IC job takes a backseat to "what you would rather be doing for fun". If someone doesn't want to or can't do their IC job they should be IC'ly punished. On an OOC level if they don't want to "Merchant", then don't roll up a merchant family member. If they don't want to "Agent", then don't roll up an Agent. If someone finds the actual "job" related to their role as "boring", then they shouldn't even app that role to begin with. This reminds me of when we decided to put in virtual "item giving" warehouses for merchants because players of merchants were tired of merchanting because it was "a hassle to be asked about orders". I'm pretty far in the corner of, "If you can't or won't perform I will find someone who will.", though, up to and including caring less about your OOC experience than your IC performance. But that's me and that's the type of game I like to play personally.)

[Hicksville Hoochie]

While I'm not as strong about it, I agree pretty much with what DMan posted.

Having a DispenserBot2000 just takes a ton of Things to Do® out of the hands of the player base. Grebbers can be found easily enough, hunters can be hired, have a crafty, high-haggle agent take an escort, whether House or Byn, to a different town to load up on cheap supplies such as cloth.

Pre-empt things so there's a stockpile in place. Scrab shells might not be needed at current, but why not send out some people to haul a crate in for future use? This keeps people busy in varying roles, crafters stocked for practice, and money flowing for those poor grebbers who don't know where every plant spawn in the game is.

I think an Atrium-style NPC might be a cool idea. Where you bring in materials, "Give" them to him/her, and they're kept in a buy list for 0 coins, thus keeping things organized. An endless dispenser just really kills a lot of potential interaction in the game though, and the last thing Arma needs (IMO) is more ways to cut down on interaction between players.

[Molten Heart]

I preferred buying materials from independent contractors (grebbers).

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

If there were more than five of the item 'a piece of bone' in any merchant house compound, ever, I would agree with the naysayers, but as for actually skilling up and mastercrafting, especially on low wisdom characters, I prefer to stay out of the merchant houses first and do my skilling up indie-style, when it really should be the other way around. Its just so much faster to do it that way, even with active hunters going specifically after the bones or hide you want.

[Majikal]

craft bone into earring
craft bone into earring
craft bone into earring
craft bone into earring
craft bone into earring

Merchanting done wrong.

Engage players, give them a reason to be a cog in the item machine that is your pc. If you join a House, become an engaging part of the house that makes the hunter/crafter role feel real.

I'd need to hear a compelling argument for what this what add to the game and story for the players beyond ez skillupz, I don't think one exists for this.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

1. There's never any damn 'a piece of bone' around.
2. Houses should contain the most skilled artisans; currently you can get by being a total wuss in that area all your game life and no one will notice.
3. It takes hundreds of craft ingredients to get to master for mastercrafting and you'll never get there entering the House with novice skill in your craft.
4. You'd want to be able to effectively craft recipes with rare ingredients without breaking them, for example one Kadian jewelry requires kryl shell. And in this game system, it could only be done on advanced or higher without needing luck.
5. No overhunting of chalton for 'a piece of bone' required; they're all coming from vnpc hunters (which should outnumber crafters by like twenty to one, this would help) who hunt vnpc chalton and if its this item specifically being dispensed,
6. hunters won't have to waste their time on chalton
7. Sometimes crafters simply have no one to talk to and nothing to do because all the cheaper materials are used up. Give them three bits of bone to occupy an hour before going bar-hopping so they can say they did some work.

[BadSkeelz]

1. Tell hunters you need pieces of bone, or bone piles.
2. This is a failure of house leadership more than anything. If someone isn't pulling their weight in the clan, they should be kicked out. Being clanned is a privilege, not a right.
3. Yeah, and? Hire hunters to get those items. God knows we all hunt way more voraciously than we "should" anyway.
4. This is why you build up stockpiles and factor waste in to cost. There are risks of loss associated with everything*.
5. The chalton are being overhunted, but they're also overspawning. If you ignore the chalton, you ignore the players who can hunt them.
6. Nothing's a waste if you get paid enough.
7. Get out of the estate and meet people. Put your name on the boards. Tell friends to tell their friends that you're buying.

*except magick skillup

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Man, I am running into a LOT of community resistance to this. Its like people are scared of it, and I'm frankly surprised. So, what if I'm never able to play peaktime, and would only benefit from this? What if there's _two_ crafters in a clan who have mastercraft requests from the House and need to skill up? "Sure, they'll do it in one to one and a half years"? They can still buy bones and such from hunters--- although last I heard, Kadius was not buying raw materials from hunters. I did recently hear about someone selling a gem to Kadius though, its probable they changed tactics.

[Armaddict]

I prefer to stay out of the merchant houses first and do my skilling up indie-style, when it really should be the other way around.

I don't think this is accurate.  It's not like merchant houses are training schools for crafters, which is what you seem to imply here.

There are literally fledgling hunters and grebbers everywhere looking for things to be doing.

Its like people are scared of it, and I'm frankly surprised.

Not liking an idea is not being afraid of it.

So, what if I'm never able to play peaktime, and would only benefit from this?

You're in a GMH and have resources to work through timezones with others in the clan.

What if there's _two_ crafters in a clan who have mastercraft requests from the House and need to skill up?

I don't see what the first part of that has to do with the second.  They'll have to skill up regardless.  So...buy more pieces of bone accordingly.  This scenario doesn't make the original idea any stronger.

last I heard, Kadius was not buying raw materials from hunters.

They build their own hunting corps in preference, I believe, but the decision to buy goods from elsewhere falls on the leadership at the time.

[BadSkeelz]

A lot of us (certainly myself) are deeply skeptical of tools that cut out PC jobs and interaction.

I'd be more open to a merchant NPC hunters could sell cheaply to, who would then pass the goods on to a House's crafters. I'd still prefer to talk to the actual crafters or agents, but at least this way you wouldn't be reducing the hunting stage to virtual.

[Delirium]

All this fuss over pieces of bone, which are literally the cheapest and most common item you can find or buy.

Hunters in GMH love to actually have a point to the work they're doing, an item dispenser would rob them of that chance.

Request it through your superior, the hunters, your GMH rumor board, or just go buy some in the city (they are readily available) if you refuse to do any of those.

I still stand by my point that this is a non-issue, you just don't want to accept it.

[Delirium]

A lot of us (certainly myself) are deeply skeptical of tools that cut out PC jobs and interaction.

I'd be more open to a merchant NPC hunters could sell cheaply to, who would then pass the goods on to a House's crafters. I'd still prefer to talk to the actual crafters or agents, but at least this way you wouldn't be reducing the hunting stage to virtual.

I do like that idea and I've mentioned it in the past, a quartermaster NPC would be great.

As it was explained to me then, this requires some fiddling with ancient code that doesn't like to work so staff shot it down.

[Drayab]

Man, I am running into a LOT of community resistance to this. Its like people are scared of it, and I'm frankly surprised. So, what if I'm never able to play peaktime, and would only benefit from this? What if there's _two_ crafters in a clan who have mastercraft requests from the House and need to skill up? "Sure, they'll do it in one to one and a half years"? They can still buy bones and such from hunters--- although last I heard, Kadius was not buying raw materials from hunters. I did recently hear about someone selling a gem to Kadius though, its probable they changed tactics.

My guess is either you don't have enough hunters to support you, or the hunters aren't actually aware that you need the bones. Bones are really easy to get. It's a great job to assign to a newbie hunter. Just make sure they know what to hunt, and hopefully it's a chalton and not a mek. A seasoned hunter could go massacre an obscene amount of wildlife and have you stocked up for a IG year.

In short: organization and communication.   

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

All this fuss over pieces of bone, which are literally the cheapest and most common item you can find or buy.

Hunters in GMH love to actually have a point to the work they're doing, an item dispenser would rob them of that chance.

Request it through your superior, the hunters, your GMH rumor board, or just go buy some in the city (they are readily available) if you refuse to do any of those.

I still stand by my point that this is a non-issue, you just don't want to accept it.

1. Crafters are stuck inside the city and sometimes without money, having to wait a week for their pay or for hunters to get them--- meanwhile with nothing to do for hours while there may be nobody around to talk to.

2. An item dispenser for 'a piece of bone' would not lesson the need to kill chaltons for their ivory and leather one bit. The bones are required in so many recipes that they're just simply out most of the time.

The rest of it is vaguely baiting.

[Delirium]

I'm not sure where you saw me baiting you, but look, I understand that you're frustrated.

Maybe take a step back for a day or two and then revisit this thread without the viewpoint that we are all somehow insulting or refusing to see your viewpoint.

We do see it. We are pointing out the solutions and the gameplay reasons why we disagree. We aren't attacking you.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Okay, sure.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Honestly I'm probably the only person on these forums who has never played a frustrated, can't-sell-my-shit hunter. That's likely where my perception is coming from. I don't understand getting your neck bit so hard that you decide to stop hunting for the game week and then not being able to sell that enormous, valuable shell.

I like the other idea that was pointed out, the one with old code for an npc pseudoshopkeeper. It does seem like its taking from interaction but if you're a house crafter or an indie hunter who can only play from 6-8 in the mornings it may be your only option.

[Molten Heart]

The slaughter house in Allanak is a great place to look for cheap materials, however it is understandable that clan members may shy away from spending money on items regardless of their cost due to being on a fixed income.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

If items such as 'piece of bone' and other common materials aren't kept readily available through hunters, they can be picked up at various shops in the city. A clan's leadership PCs should be on top of this - informed by their crafters, as well as general observation of what's available to the people they're agreeing to oversee when they accept the role. This could also give their prospective crafters/merchants a chance to practice things such as haggle, by sending them into town with so much coin, to get a few bags of materials that are needed.

When you place a Wondermaster in the compound to dole out cheap materials without pause, you're effectively replacing jobs with robots. It's also (IMO) supporting isolation, by just allowing crafters to plant their feet and list/buy/craft/repeat. To me, that takes a bunch of what makes skilling up a thing in this game. Every class has to get out and get their hands dirty to skill up (arguably not most gicks), and I personally feel that taking that away from crafting-based classes robs characters of some potential quality interaction.