Materials dispenser in Merchant Houses

[Dan]

I'd rather see the Kadian material merchant have the occasional rare piece of material if anything. You could also hire the Byn to collect something you want too if you don't have house hunters or don't want to risk them collecting horror shell and kiyet eyeballs or whatever.

[Erythil]

My experience is that Houses are usually overstocked to brimming with materials, they're just short on a couple material types that are used very commonly (the notorious 'a piece of bone' comes to mind).

Actually, what I'd rather see is House employees being given a list of a large number of crafting recipes relevant to their House, because I feel trial and error doesn't reveal 80+ percent of the many many forgotten recipes in the game.

[Zenith]

Actually, what I'd rather see is House employees being given a list of a large number of crafting recipes relevant to their House, because I feel trial and error doesn't reveal 80+ percent of the many many forgotten recipes in the game.

<3

[Culinary Critic]

I'm not sure where you saw me baiting you, but look, I understand that you're frustrated.

Maybe take a step back for a day or two and then revisit this thread without the viewpoint that we are all somehow insulting or refusing to see your viewpoint.

We do see it. We are pointing out the solutions and the gameplay reasons why we disagree. We aren't attacking you.

Okay, sure.

Dude...that was 63 seconds.  That is just a little short of "taking a day".

Honestly I'm probably the only person on these forums who has never played a frustrated, can't-sell-my-shit hunter. That's likely where my perception is coming from. I don't understand getting your neck bit so hard that you decide to stop hunting for the game week and then not being able to sell that enormous, valuable shell.

No, you're not.  I'd put good sid down that almost all of us have been through this.  But it isn't the argument.

Yes, there is a virtual world that goes on while our characters are off sleeping, crafting, hunting, stealing, backstabbing, corrupting, murdering and betraying.  Yes, there are going to be VIRTUAL hunters bring bits in to the merchant houses.  But there are also VIRTUAL crafters grabbing up every little thing that YOUR crafter wants.  Why?  Because they want it too!

It's supposed to be a harsh world where survival is tough.  That SHOULD extend to crafters in merchant houses having to struggle to find the things they want (and excluding food, water, a safe place to sleep, prestige and influence).

If your crafter REALLY wants those pieces of bone...slip a hunter a bit of sid to make sure you're first on the list.  Or sleep with him/her to be their favourite.  Or play a couple of them off against each other by flirting.

As a number of people have said, make it an IG experience rather than an OOC convenience.  Crafting (or the skill bump) shouldn't be the goal.  Character development and the RP experience should be.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm not sure where you saw me baiting you, but look, I understand that you're frustrated.

Maybe take a step back for a day or two and then revisit this thread without the viewpoint that we are all somehow insulting or refusing to see your viewpoint.

We do see it. We are pointing out the solutions and the gameplay reasons why we disagree. We aren't attacking you.

Okay, sure.

Dude...that was 63 seconds.  That is just a little short of "taking a day".

Honestly I'm probably the only person on these forums who has never played a frustrated, can't-sell-my-shit hunter. That's likely where my perception is coming from. I don't understand getting your neck bit so hard that you decide to stop hunting for the game week and then not being able to sell that enormous, valuable shell.

No, you're not.  I'd put good sid down that almost all of us have been through this.  But it isn't the argument.

For the sake of clarity, you are both agreeing right here. He's saying he has not experienced it, you're saying most people have. Just wanted to help clarify a misunderstanding that I had the first time I read his sentence as well.

[Belraina]

An Npc in a compound who sells only materials as suggested, does take away the job role of a hunter, but it also takes away the chance of interaction and  rp for the crafter and his clan members. So the  material isn't there, that's alright, go track down your superior, a hunter, someone and let them know. Then work on something else. This let's a superior have something to do, which in turns lets someone else have something to do, on down the line. In the meantime in a GMH there is plenty to do besides craft.

[Culinary Critic]

Honestly I'm probably the only person on these forums who has never played a frustrated, can't-sell-my-shit hunter. That's likely where my perception is coming from. I don't understand getting your neck bit so hard that you decide to stop hunting for the game week and then not being able to sell that enormous, valuable shell.

No, you're not.  I'd put good sid down that almost all of us have been through this.  But it isn't the argument.
[/quote]

For the sake of clarity, you are both agreeing right here. He's saying he has not experienced it, you're saying most people have. Just wanted to help clarify a misunderstanding that I had the first time I read his sentence as well.
[/quote]

Thanks RGS. 

Seriously not meant as a flame.  Apologies if taken as not intended.

[Lizzie]

Very very simple solution for the OP's frustration:

Post on the clan GDB, in the "Rumors" thread:

Word gets through to Merchant Amos Kadius through a page that Crafter Talia needs more pieces of bone. Talia's locker is the green one, and she's left it ajar in case Amos chooses to put 100 sids in there instead of the bone, so that Talia can buy some from the butcher until the hunters can get more from their hunts.

[Desertman]

1. There's never any damn 'a piece of bone' around.
2. Houses should contain the most skilled artisans; currently you can get by being a total wuss in that area all your game life and no one will notice.
3. It takes hundreds of craft ingredients to get to master for mastercrafting and you'll never get there entering the House with novice skill in your craft.
4. You'd want to be able to effectively craft recipes with rare ingredients without breaking them, for example one Kadian jewelry requires kryl shell. And in this game system, it could only be done on advanced or higher without needing luck.
5. No overhunting of chalton for 'a piece of bone' required; they're all coming from vnpc hunters (which should outnumber crafters by like twenty to one, this would help) who hunt vnpc chalton and if its this item specifically being dispensed,
6. hunters won't have to waste their time on chalton
7. Sometimes crafters simply have no one to talk to and nothing to do because all the cheaper materials are used up. Give them three bits of bone to occupy an hour before going bar-hopping so they can say they did some work.

1. Please see comments about hunters.
2. I've seen tons of Mastercrafters in Houses, recently. I've dealt with several and got several Mastercrafts made just for me from them. This includes three I can think of recently in Kurac, two in Salarr, and two in Kadius.
3. Wrong. See #2.
4. Even a master isn't perfect. I'm not sure what your complaint is here. That you want to never fail crafting if you are a master in a House?
5. Your idea would only make the PC contribution even less meaningful in GMH's, which it already is in my opinion. You taking jobs away from PC's and giving them to "the virtual population" would just compound that more. Being a House hunter is already a pointless bullshit job most of the time. Taking away the one thing they are arguably needed for on the rare occasion that they get paid laughable wages for is...not a good idea. It's just not.
6. They are getting paid to do a job. If they don't like doing that job, they shouldn't be a hunter. See my tirade above regarding people whining about not wanting to do their jobs because "muh OOC feelings".
7. Get better leaders. Problem solved.

[Desertman]

Man, I am running into a LOT of community resistance to this. Its like people are scared of it, and I'm frankly surprised.

Everyone just thinks your idea is bad. Nobody is scared of "your grand plan". It's just a bad plan.

It happens.

I have bad ideas constantly.

That's life.

[Desertman]

Actually, what I'd rather see is House employees being given a list of a large number of crafting recipes relevant to their House, because I feel trial and error doesn't reveal 80+ percent of the many many forgotten recipes in the game.

This is a good idea.

You ever play that independent and you know for a fact a House makes a certain item, but the crafter/merchant you are talking to doesn't know it exists?

"So, I am looking for a certain set of bracers I think your House might make. I seen a fellow wearing them once. They were blah blah blah."

"Uhh, no, we don't make that."

"Are you sure? I swear I saw a guy wearing these once and it had the crest of Salarr/Kadius/Kurac on it."

"No, we absolutely do not make anything like that."


(When you know for a fact from playing past characters in that House and crafting them yourself that they CAN make the item, they just don't know the recipe.)

If we would just give these House crafters access to a "Crafter's Sub Forum" in their Clan Forums once they reach a certain rank in the House where a large number of recipes they "should know" were listed it would make life better for everyone in my opinion.

How many times has someone requested an item from a merchant only to be shot down just because the merchant doesn't have the information they would arguably have hanging around dozens of VNPC crafters all day?

How many times have House hunters not been sent out to gather materials to make those things just because someone doesn't know the recipe exists, so they can never place the order with their hunters?

It's a pointless practice in a restriction on information that serves no purpose but to limit interaction, limit fun, and limit the overall enjoyment of the House-play experience.

[Delirium]

It would actually make a lot of sense for there to be a list of crafting recipes for the House because I've always imagined there is a "catalogue" with drawn diagrams for all the recipes that the House makes (for the family members anyway), and at the very least, VNPC crafters would share their know-how. House-specific recipes shouldn't have to get lost.

[RogueGunslinger]

+1 great idea.

[Desertman]

I don't understand why that information isn't handed out as common knowledge within the Houses for the crafters.

Even if someone "takes the recipes and copies them to their computer", it isn't like they CAN USE THEM.

With the way House crafts work, you have to be a member of the House to even codedly make the items the House makes.

You could be a Salarri Mastercrafter for ten IC years and if you leave Salarr you can't even codedly make the items you have been making for the last decade every day of your life. You simply can't.

For anyone to even use the information they have to actually join/be part of the House.

Even if they "take the information with them" to a new PC, that PC would have to join the House, arguably giving them IC access to the information referenced anyways, in order to be able to use it.

It's literally a no-risk situation.

You can't even use the information on a future character without first joining the House that would IC'ly give you the information.

It's sort of funny really.

It's a system that I can't even figure out a way to abuse and I'm trying.

[Desertman]

Not to mention the added "inner house mobility" and reward systems you could add to the crafter/merchant ranks by implementing such a feature.

You could in theory create a tiered system of promotion for crafters/merchants that "give them access" to the knowledge needed to create better and better mastercrafts.

The IC reasoning being, "Our House doesn't teach you the techniques/secrets needed to be able to make item A, B, or C, until you reach a certain level of promotion.".

The highest ranked merchants/crafters would in theory gain access to some pretty spectacular crafts.

It would add an entirely new and in my opinion rewarding achievement experience to playing a crafter in a House.

We bitch and moan pretty often about "the glass ceiling" and a lack of "upward mobility" within organizations. This is a fine example of a reward structure and semi-meaningful lateral mobility within the rank structure. It's not becoming the leader of the House, but it is rewarding the player for their hard work and perseverance over time which is something this role needs and has needed forever.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Man, I am running into a LOT of community resistance to this. Its like people are scared of it, and I'm frankly surprised.

Everyone just thinks your idea is bad. Nobody is scared of "your grand plan". It's just a bad plan.

It happens.

I have bad ideas constantly.

That's life.

We just fixed this. I remembered I've never played a hunter. See that post?

[nauta]

Re: Desertman's post.

I'm +1 on the idea of putting the crafting recipes for clan-only items (tribal, GMH) on the clan boards.  The pros:

1. It would allow hunters to go about hunting for material even if leadership/staff are busy.  Gives them a raise d'etre that makes sense within the in-game universe of their role.

2. It would allow newbie crafters to ask hunters to get material without having to wait for a clan-only item to load from staff (if it is out of existence).

3. It would allow newbie agents/traders to talk meaningfully about their clan-only items, e.g.: Yes, this is our boot!  It is made out of goudra and turaal teeth!

I'm trying to think of the cons, other than the time spent putting them up on the board -- but you could just allow it and then let players put it up on the board.  Perhaps some of the more rare items should have their recipes hidden...

[BadSkeelz]

One "con" I could think of is that the quality of some ancient mastercrafts might be out of step with the current gameworld. Unreasonably light/heavy/protective/etc. for the materials involved. It would take time to vet the recipes and make sure they aren't broken in such a fashion. Or if they are, there's a good reason for it.

[hyzhenhok]

House catalogues would really improve the mercantile side of GMH play, I think. Not only for crafters, but also for the merchants and agents. I'd love to be able to approach a merchant and say "Hey, I'm in the market for X, what kind of X you got?" and have them actually roleplay out whatever options there are and try to sell me on whichever is most profitable for the House. My previous experiences have always been "sorry, can't help you unless you know the specific item you want," which is very jarring.

[Desertman]

One "con" I could think of is that the quality of some ancient mastercrafts might be out of step with the current gameworld. Unreasonably light/heavy/protective/etc. for the materials involved. It would take time to vet the recipes and make sure they aren't broken in such a fashion. Or if they are, there's a good reason for it.

Assuming a staffer had the motivation and time to put in only those items that were not found to be codedly at odds with the game world.*


*amendment to the original idea

[Delirium]

I know the lists are vast, but if we could just separate the list out by type and post separately in a child board of the clan forum, I think that would help enormously.

Not just in knowing what to sell, but in knowing where the gaps are - maybe you have 50 different types of doodads, but only 9 types of thingamabobs.

Years and years ago I asked for and then spent about four hours editing the Tan Muark item list, and I'm told it was much, much smaller than the merchant House item lists.

Not that it matters any more (and I believe it was since retconned out of the clan boards for whatever reason but... whatever).

Yeah, it would be a major process.

Still. Worth it IMO.


edit: in the meantime what you can do, and what I did when I was a House merchant way back when, is keep a spreadsheet of all the items you've ever seen for sale by your clan.

Eventually over the course of that merchant I had a massive list and could easily mix and match together coordinated outfits for just about anyone.

[Desertman]

Seems like a good project for a motivated builder to get behind. They would just be building a catalogue of lists instead of building new items/rooms in the game.

Building is building.

I would help build this.

[Asmoth]

As other's have said, there is already a quasi-uselessness being a GMH hunter.  The items that are desired are the hard to kill/survive type and the ones that newbie or middling hunters can bring in are overflowing in chests/trunks and whatever.

A material vendor/whatever, would further increase the void that is a USEFUL GMH hunter.  So that's why I'm against the idea.

Not to rehash an old topic, but that's why I wish soft tissue materials (pelts, sinew, assorted guts etc) would decay like food.  This way you would have fifty untanned gortok hides in the Kurac crafting hall.  And it would make merchant/hunter relations more fluid, because merchant would have to ask hunter to get X instead of stockpiling X until the merchant has no need for it.

Just my two cents

[FantasyWriter]

Heh, back in my day, if you lived in Allanak and wanted a piece of bone, you either bought it from the place that sells them for almost nothing, or you had to ride north of Luir's and hunt because the only animals in the south that gave you bones we MEKILLOTS!

[solera]

Guts decay. Do people eat them whole?