Just a little statistic.

[Callisto]

<113/113hp 141/156stam 110/110stun>who
Immortals
---------

There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.

There are 57 players currently in the world, other than yourself.


In Allanak there was three (visible) PCs in the taverns, including myself.

Make of that what you will.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Is the point of this to show that there are a lot of players around, but not many Imms? If so, you should probably note that an Imm can hide their online status if they so choose. Considering how busy they are, it's not suprising that they don't announce they're online, unless of course they have nothing better to do but receive a million 'wish tlaloc's or 'wish sanvean's.

[crymerci]

Must be mudsex season.

Oh wait, that's a year-long event.  Nevermind.

[Anonymous]

Is the point of this to show that there are a lot of players around, but not many Imms? If so, you should probably note that an Imm can hide their online status if they so choose. Considering how busy they are, it's not suprising that they don't announce they're online, unless of course they have nothing better to do but receive a million 'wish tlaloc's or 'wish sanvean's.

I'm pretty sure Callisto is aware of that.  I'm not speaking for her, but I think she's getting at the fact that out of nearly 60 people only 5% were available to roleplay with in Allanak.

Either that or she's pointing out how awesome her PC's stats are.

[Dyrinis]

I would wager this has more to do with the Northlands RPT currently in progress than any kind of sudden population shift.

Dyrinis

[Armaddict]

Well...it happens pretty often.

I hate seeing fourty people online, and being able to find three other people in allanak.

The north blows goats.

[Rindan]

The Northlands gets all the RPTs.  I don't see why.  I mean, the North sucks and Allanak rules.  I wish Tek would just flatten the place once and for all and we can get back watching everyone take pop shots at Allanak only to be crushed.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Isn't that a rather selfish view on things? Allanak had RPTs for fourty IC years, and Tuluk had none. Is it alright now, please, for Tuluk to have a couple, huh? Sure it is.

Now what I think oughta happen i....wait, nobody wanna hear all that...ok, back to the game.

[Armaddict]

It's not selfish.  It's how things should be.  Plain and simple, Allanak is better.

So Nyah.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Stop smoking all that la, man. Too much of it retards your brain, which is obviously what has happened to Armaddict. *grin*

Tuluk is obviously better. I mean, we get the RPTs, don't we?

[Armaddict]

Bah!  Anyone who smokes as much as this slow-minded person knows...RPT's are acts of pity!  The immortals pity the northlands with their RPT's, because....Allanak is better!

Heh, okay, I'll stop the nakki propoganda, now.

[Rindan]

Isn't that a rather selfish view on things? Allanak had RPTs for fourty IC years, and Tuluk had none. Is it alright now, please, for Tuluk to have a couple, huh? Sure it is.

Now what I think oughta happen i....wait, nobody wanna hear all that...ok, back to the game.

I think you missed my point.  Allanak is better.  Why have something not as good as Allanak taking up space when the real thing is already there?  I just don't understand it.  

Maybe Tuluk is for people who fear that they are not cool enough for Allanak.  They want to be cool, but are just too affraid to be with the hip in crowd.  They build up by going to Tuluk first.  Then perhaps they try being a shit shoveler in Luir's, and as they build up from the lowest form of life (a tuluki) to the highest (allanaki).  Then perhaps they try being a wretched desert elf, then perhaps move on to being a spice hunter in Red Storm.  After all that, then one might feel cool enough to be in Allanak, though not as a citizen of course.

I understand how a Tuluki could feel like they are not worthy of being an Allanaki.  It is true, you are not worthy.  That said, we are an accepting bunch and will let you bask in our glory even though you do not deserve it.  So come, make a wretched elf or something and play in Allanak.  You are not worthy of the honor, but we will let Tuluki slim like you play anyways.  We are so damned nice.

[__Torax__]

The funny thing is, you all are gloating about Allanak...However, lets stick to the IC history. Allanak controlled Tuluk and the Gol Krathu. But -WASNT- strong enough to hold it when the Tulukis' faught back. So we basked in your glory for a time, then we stripped in from your very hands and laugh in your face.  :twisted:  :twisted:

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Rindan obviously does way more than smoke la....

Torax, you are quite correct, and have managed to bring a good in-your-face-humph tool to the table...good work.

[Armaddict]

Pheh.  At least Tek got far enough to push muk out in the first place.  How many times has muk done -that-?

[Armaddict]

Oh oh oh!  And explain why elementals are scared of Tek and not Muk, again?

*walks away, staring at the sky and whistling innocently.*

[Rindan]

The funny thing is, you all are gloating about Allanak...However, lets stick to the IC history. Allanak controlled Tuluk and the Gol Krathu. But -WASNT- strong enough to hold it when the Tulukis' faught back. So we basked in your glory for a time, then we stripped in from your very hands and laugh in your face.  :twisted:  :twisted:

Let's get your history right.  Tuluk was controlled by old Mukky.  Tek beat the living hell out of him and took over the place for a good 40 years.  Muks victories?  Well, he managed to take back what he lost.  Woohoo!  That is something to brag about.  That is like getting beaten to the ground then bragging that after being pinned for a while you managed to struggle to your feet.

Let us also not forget that in history not a single organization as managed to wrestle control of Allanak from Tek, not even for a second.  No one has managed to breach the walls of Allanak.  Certainly, no one has managed to BURN DOWN ALL OF ALLANAK, like some other unnamed rulers have failed to accomplish.  Further, let us not forget that Tek not only killed a servant of the Dragon, but whacked another city without even bothering to use an army.  I am sorry, but Tek is The Man (in more ways then one) and Mukky is a little wussy runner up.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Because Muk is one. Those magickers who keep disappearing...they aren't really disappearing.

Beware, Tek.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I'm suprised to see no one is trying to root for the Sand Lord. But then again, what the heck has he ever done? Nothing for nobody, I say.

Anyways, Tek rules, Muk stinks, deal with it. That whole burying Steinal thing is a feat, even those Northern barbarians must see that. In fact, my personal theory is that the only reason the Northlands isn't being swallowed up by a raging sandstorm right now is because Tek likes fruit. Heck, that'd explain why his forces occupied the place for 40 years anyways. He was hungry, figured he'd invade, he got sick of fruit after a while, so he let the silly Northerners have their land back. That's right, Tek is so bad ass that he can invade a city-state based on what he wants for lunch that day.

Or maybe Tek thinks it'd be futile to destroy the Northlands with a sandstorm. I mean, it's a whirling funnel of suck already, isn't it?

Muk will never be able to claim he's tougher than Tek until he:
A) Has his people live in the most squalid conditions in the Known World, yet has them too terrified to attempt a revolt.
B) Buries an entire city... Literally.
C) Occupies an area full of people who hate his guts for decades.

When that little check list is done, then maybe we can talk about who'd win an arm wrestling competition, eh?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There are two options available for the Sandlord. No, that will be three options.

First, the Sandlord is Tek. This is possible. After all, what better way to rule the world than to have a 'haven' for all your enemies?

Second, the Sandlord does not exist at all. This is exceedingly logical, in reality. Many a goverment has ruled with a figurative ruler, while the actual governing was done by a panel.

Third, the Sandlord is so powerful that he terrifies Tek and Muk but has no over-sized ambitions, satisfied with his own small and lucritive domain.

I opt for the third option.

[Stroker]

Let's remember that Muk Utep is a Warrior Mage, can't say as much for Tek who seems to be just a plain Defiler (only a lot stronger).

[Stroker]

Or fourth option: Sand lord is nothing special, but Tek just refuses to get off his lazy ass and actually destroy, yet, another city.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Or fourth option: Sand lord is nothing special, but Tek just refuses to get off his lazy ass and actually destroy, yet, another city.

Yeah, right.

[Callisto]

Let's remember that Muk Utep is a Warrior Mage, can't say as much for Tek who seems to be just a plain Defiler (only a lot stronger).

True, but who needs a sword and armor when you can turn into a massive dragon and burn whole armies to ash?

[Barzalene]

I've been north. I've seen it. The south is better.

[Socko]

I like to experience them both.

I dunno about everyone else, but I feel for -all- of Zalanthas, from shik great and small, to mekillot romping around in the flats.. it all brings a tear to my eye.

[Armaddict]

Well same here.

But for the north, it's a tear of pity.  :wink:

Nah, just kidding.  I love Arm as a creation, but...I'm filled with a sense of 'nakki nationalism.  The northern characters I just can't get into 'sense of northern pride' mode.  Can't do it.

That, and I can pump out insults to spew at northerners like nothing else, hehe.

[Sephiroto]

The last RPT in Luirs, it was great.  I think nearly 90% of all online PC's where within two rooms from eachother for hours.  Good thing an angry defiler didn't pop up and put everyone to sleep.  Or worse....that'd be alot of new character aps.  But aye, I've noticed the population shift.

And for the record: Luirs is the shit.  Allanak and Tuluk have nothing on it.

[zanthalandreams]

I see all this posted hate for the North and I wonder why there are so few posts defending what is clearly better than that vile pit of stench and decay nestled in the southern wastes.   Then it hits me.   They're too busy playing to complain on the GDB while their character idles in a tavern choked with VNPCs.  Which is not what anyone here is doing, surely.  

Tuluk, Allanak.

Tastes Great, Less Filling.

Luirs is the center of the world, thats what gets my vote.  Kurac tattooed on one fist, 4 Life on the other.  Sand in your teeth, armies at your gates begging politely to be let through because they know that you decide who wins what war and when.  Sitting on the end of the shield wall like a brain stem, controlling the entire world.  Tek?  Muk?  Wait in line like everyone else and no you can't have a complimentary smoke, Tek, don't make me smack you.

[Rindan]

Luirs is the center of the world, thats what gets my vote.  Kurac tattooed on one fist, 4 Life on the other.  Sand in your teeth, armies at your gates begging politely to be let through because they know that you decide who wins what war and when.  Sitting on the end of the shield wall like a brain stem, controlling the entire world.  Tek?  Muk?  Wait in line like everyone else and no you can't have a complimentary smoke, Tek, don't make me smack you.

Kurac is the center of the world.  The second Tek and Muk die Kurac is going to own everything.  Only an act of God (or two God kings in this case) keep Kurac from 0wnZing all by0tches.  Honestly though, I think the best RPT ever would be the God Kings being killed and Kurac taking its rightful place as supreme rulers of the known world.  Until then though, Tek is The Man.

[SwanSwanHummingbird]

Tek Rules!!

But, really, there does seem to be a lack of people in the south lately.  The north has a good number of people right now, so what we really need is just -more people-.  I keep thinking how awesome this game would be if you could say "I saw 180 people on who, and only saw 15 people in the bars, where is everybody??"   Not that the game isn't awesome already, but all the more reason why there should be more people.

[Hoodwink]

the Sandlord is Tek. This is possible. After all, what better way to rule the world than to have a 'haven' for all your enemies?

Or for that matter perhaps Muk Utep is Tektolnes.  Maybe it's all one big conspiracy!  It's not like they're showing themselves to prove it's not true.  No, I'm sure of it.  This must be the case!  I think I've caught on to something...

Further, let us not forget that Tek not only killed a servant of the Dragon, but whacked another city without even bothering to use an army. I am sorry, but Tek is The Man (in more ways then one) and Mukky is a little wussy runner up.

Don't forget, he also killed his own father and took his position.  That's my kind of man  :twisted:

But seriously, I've noticed the trend Callisto suggests in her statistic as well, and while it may indeed be current events springing more characters north, I can't help but wonder if this is a more lengthy change or merely the constant flux of the player base.  It must be hard to house 2 cities (and all the villages in between) with a player base that, from what I've seen, tends to peak at about 50 - 60.  I've been in Tuluk and Allanak at different times and seen 40+ players online, not a single one to be found in any of the hotspots.  Between the lone wanderers outside, those sparring in various clans and other clan members meeting in their estate/compound/etc., suddenly you've got a good 30 people scattered across the game.  These things come in cycles, naturally, but I'm very much in favor of trying to centralize players to a degree.  But the opposite end of the spectrum is when things get too annoying because a dozen PCs are all in one room, flooding nonstop spam -- so maybe these things are better resolved on their own.

[Carnage]

I'd rather see the playerbase numbers stay the same. Fifteen people in a single tavern is kind of a lot and it gets pretty hard to understand everything that's going on at your table, much less others.

[mansa]

I'd rather see a tavern full.  I mean, a table full of Wyverns, Oashi Elite, Scorpions, Byn, Kadians, Salarris, Kuracis, in the Gaj.

And then everybody else who doesn't want to join a clan.

Oh my gosh.  Just thinking of it is giving me the willies.  That would be AWESOME.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I'm gonna have to agree with Carnage. We could deal with maybe another ten more people online consistantly, but really, you don't need too many people in a tavern to have a good time. As long as there is a guy or two at the bar, I'm happy. Too many players can get on my nerves... Sitting at my tables... Sucking up my air... Making me look at their inferior EMOTEs... Yeah, my next character is going to be a loner half-elf.  :twisted:

Anyways, my point is I think the Pbase is really good where it's at now. When I first started playing, Armageddon was in the middle of a player drought... I distinctly remember peak times being at about 30 players. Right now, even the more isolated areas (Luir's, Red Storm) have at least some degree of activity. Sure, Allanak might be spread thin, but look at it this way: The mugger that could be the end of your prissy little special-apped noble character might be killing some Northern barbarians instead of you right now.

Kinda warms your heart, doesn't it? Or perhaps makes you want to buy a 'Rinther a steel shortsword?

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Oh, and on the topic of who's cooler, Muk Utep or Tektolnes, I wrote this tonight... It's set in the not-too-distant IC future.

The Sun King's Sanctuary [NEWU]
This is the room description for the Sun King's Sanctuary. Give me a break; I haven't played in the north for a while. Why? Because Tuluk sucks mul nuts.

The omnipotent sorcerer-king enters the tavern.

The omnipotent sorcerer-king says, in southerly-accented sirihish:
"Take your best shot, you mutant-fucking, bunny-hugging, flower-sniffing, shield-making bitches!"

You think:
"Sweet spice 'n water! It's Tektolnes!"

The templar that's always writing in the Sanctuary jumps out of his seat, charging at the omnipotent sorcerer-king with your steel short sword.

The omnipotent sorcerer-king utters and incantation.
You are engulfed in flames!

The omnipotent sorcerer-king utters and incantation.
Raging winds howl as a sandstorm of monstrous magnitude picks up outside.

You think:
"Oh no! It's just like Steinal!"

The templar that's always writing in the Sanctuary picks himself up from the burned wreckage of his table, slashing furiously at the omnipotent sorcerer-king.

You solidly slash the omnipotent sorcerer king's leg.
The omnipotent sorcerer king dodges your slash.

The omnipotent sorcerer king subdues you, despite your attempts to struggle away.

Slamming you to the ground as the flames spread throughout the tavern, the omnipotent sorcerer-king says, in southerly-accented sirihish:
"Where's your Muk now, Pen-Boy?"

[CindyLou]

>An arrow flies in from the street outside, and lands squarely in the middle of the omnipotent sorcerer-king's forehead!

The omnipotent sorcerer-king drops the templar who's always writing at the table to the ground and brings his gnarled blackened hands to his face, which seems to be melting into a globulus jello-like substance at the moment.

>In a whiney tone of voice, the omnipotent sorcerer-king shouts, in southern-accented sirihish, "I'm melting, I'm melting!"

>A purple-braided woman with flowers sticking out from her hair skips merrily into the tavern, tugging her bow over her shoulder.

>Glaring at the purple braided woman with flowers sticking out from her hair, the omnipotent sorcerer-king shouts, in southern-accented sirihish, "Oh, what a world, what a cruel cruel world! And what a cruel little girl..melting, melting, mellllting!"

The omnipotent sorcerer-king slumps to the ground, disintegrating into a puddle of black foamy goop.

The purple braided woman with flowers sticking out from her hair giggles.

The templar who's always writing at the table snickers at the pile of goop, gets up on his feet, and passes an enormous silk pouch filled with obsidian coins and a quiver of steel-tipped arrows to the purple braided woman with flowers sticking out from her hair.

The end.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The end.

BAMMMM!!!!!

[Malifaxis]

The end.

And the credits roll...

And then, three years later, on KWTV (Known World TeleVision)...

(A black screen)

Voice over:  It was a mission of peace...

(black screen fades, view from above of a troop of Bynners carrying a large box across the wastes.  Fade back to black)

Voice over:  In a land without mercy...

(black fades out, the Bynners clashing with a pack of gith, Metallica "Disposable Heros" blaring in the back ground, the scene cut in a quick session of Oliver Stone action flashes a-la Any Given Sunday before fading to black)

Voice over:  In a world of amazing beauty...

(black fades again, the Bynners marching through the gates of 'Nak, Suk Krath flaring off of Tek's golden spires, the camera shooting at a downward angle toward the gates, catching the steel dragon in all it's glory before flashing to a view of a lone templar in red surrounded by 20 f'me PC magickers all chanting mystically, then fading back to black)

Voice over:  And filled with endless, terrible power...

(black fades back out, the view from straight above, the templar surrounded by now dead F'me PC magickers, the blood draining down to a center pool that the templar hovers over, five braziers burning a plethora of hearts before fading back to black)

Voice over:  Two beings...

(black fades to two quick flashes:  One of a powerful looking man with energy crackling around him and a huge steel sword, the other being of a figure dressed in black robes with a distinctly reptilian body shape, fade out)

Voice over:  Two cities...

(Black fades again to reveal Allanak in all it's squalor, then Tuluk in all it's flowery wussyness before going back to black)

Voice over:  One endless war.

(Clips of the previous movie, the omnipotent sorcerer-king thrashing the shit out of Muk's wussy ass, legions of 'Naki militia patrolling the streets of Tuluk, clips of the rebellion, then clips of the Tek being dropped by the mysterious chick with funky flowered hair, fade back to black)

Voice over:  After thousands of years... almost a hundred King's Ages... after the dragon's disappearance, the ruining of the world, and after endless storms and a bajillion deaths...

(the black fades.  The shield wall, the sands below a brilliant raidant hue in the morning sun, a pack of D-elves randomly engaging some gith far below... a boot strikes down, grey leather, a thick, studded leather armored leg moving up from it.  The camera pans back, a dun colored dustcloak flaps wildly in the breeze, emblazoned with a crimson, clenched fist.  The camera halts and holds, not fading to black)

Voice over:  This shit will stop.

(camera moves up, the head turns, showing a rugged, craggy face, a huge fucking spice spliff clenched in the teeth as a single blue eye winks rogueishly... the other covered by a bone eyepatch with a jeweled crimson fist decoration.  Fade to black, end of commercial)

Get real.  Tek and Muk are only there because Kurac lets them be.  They amuse The Big K, so they are permitted to exist.

[zanthalandreams]

I tremble under the coolness that was Malifaxis's post.

[Anonymous]

Heh, that was a sweet post Mal.

It wasn't authentic though, because all trailers like that need to have one line.

"A man.....on the edge...."

Without that line, it just doesn't work.

[Morrolan]

"....gritty and compelling!...

                       --Varnis Plaan, Allanak Times

"....movie of the Age!..."

                       --Noyet Thot, The Gaj Review


-----------------------------------------------------------
This movie has not yet been raided
by the Motion Picture Association of Allanak




That was Awesome!  I'd ask if you write for a living, but that would be wierd OOC info to have.  Well, keep it up!

Morrolan

[Angela Christine]

Bah, Tek is no Sorcerer.  He is the world's most kick-ass Rukkian.  Think about it.  He burried one enemy in a mine, another under tonnes of sand.  Sure, Rukkians aren't known for turning into dragons, but that may not have been what really happened.

AC

[Hoodwink]

Back on the original topic I'd like to say that all the hotspots being empty in a city-state during peak hours and one single tavern flooded with a dozen characters are the opposite ends of the spectrum.  I'm not opposed to sharing possible methods of centralizing the playerbase more.  In fact, I think that's one of the best possible uses for a discussion forum like this.

Despite that many may write it off as unimportant I think that there is an attempt from this MUD to unify characters and promote interaction, and maybe there could be a little more.  Here is one example.

Chances are if you are playing a noble and you send in a request to your clan imm for a fancy shmancy custom made cloak their reply will be that you seek out a Kadius PC.  Realistically a pampered noble is not going to have to wait the potential 2+ years it quite often can take to order a single garment (and if you include the amount of time it takes to find the necessary parties, submit the request, have the request processed, then receive the item once completed, yes, it can take several IC years in fact -- the point of this is not a complaint or meant to suggest the system should be changed, read on).  But we accept this twist in reality for what I believe is one single reason: to promote character interaction.  Sure a noble can, theoretically, have his/her private tailors make anything (s)he desires in no time at all, but that's not the best way to get people together and involved.  My point is, that while some of you may think that the idea of trying to increase character involvement is low priority, unimportant, or a waste of time, I disagree and for all the reasons stated above I think it's clear that I'm not the only one.

In my opinion the trouble is inconsistancy.  On one hand there are attempts with human clans to interact, such as having nobles request items through a PC merchant or requiring a guard applicant receive their training through another clan before admittance, but on the other hand, there are many clans that seem to have absolutely no (or too little) purpose to interact with the outside world at all, indeed these clans are, essentially, a separate MUD in that sense.  Elves are typically xenophobic who pride themselves on self-reliance and shunning outsiders.  That's great, I think it's a good thing this MUD has taken the time to give an individual psyche to the various races rather than have us all be happy-go-lucky, friends with all, and no difference between one race and the next besides appearance.  But there should still be methods to draw these characters together with the rest of the game world.  Perhaps a distant tribe of desert elves suddenly are crippled by a gith attack and have no choice but to venture to the nearest village or city-state and begin trade agreements with the local merchants.  Now maybe they actually do interact with others (aside from entering a tavern, sitting by oneself and talking to no one) and I'm just not seeing it.  Either way, I don't think discussing ways to improve character interaction is a bad thing.  Rounding players together does not mean putting 40+ players into one room and forcing them to interact, incidentally.  It just means that, as the original author of this thread pointed out, 40+ people can be on and not a one found in Allanak (or sometimes this happens to Tuluk).

As a final note I'd like to say that I'd very much like to see Tuluk and Allanak VISIBLY have more reason to interact, rather than practically being two different MUDs.  Interaction does not always mean friendship.  Occasional skirmishes with true Allanaki-representing factions against true Tuluki-representing factions would make for excellent RPTs, and they don't have to require massive efforts to put together.  Establishing ties, both friends and enemies, between the clans/races has got to be the best way to pull players together and, even if they're not all in the same room, they've got something to do that affects others.  You may say this already takes place now.  Great.  How can we improve that?

[Anonymous]

To hoodwink,

I won't mention anything IC but maybe it's just that you don't know. Maybe theres lots of things going on that you don't know about. If you don't know about them it doesn't mean theyre not happening.

And thats all I'm gonna say

[Hoodwink]

Right, and as I said, maybe that's already happening but I'd like to see more.  I think Arm needs a healthy dose of behind-the-scenes action, as you suggest, Guest, as well as events that are happening on the forefront.

The age old remark of "You don't know everything" can only be used so much.  And that's not meant to sound rudely, rather matter of factly    I think it's safe to assume we all are aware of things that other players are not.  I may know that there is secretly a rebellion funded by House Whomever and you may not, yet you know that House Whomever secretly employs defilers while I'm left in the dark on that, but that's not really what I'm talking about here.  I'm saying discussing ways to increase the interaction level amongst players does not need to be shrugged off.  Naturally, some things in this category cannot be discussed if we are to retain IC confidence, but there's still a large venue available to converse upon openly.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I get what you're saying Hoodwink, and I agree.

Not everything has to be cloak and dagger espionage with people quietly disappearing or trade negotiations taking place in dark rooms between only the highest ranking member of each faction.

Instead of sprinkling Tuluk with spies, maybe a powerful Southern templar could send a larger scouting group to establish a camp? Then have the Tuluki militia charge out of the gates in an effort to drive Allanak from even the outskirts of their land?

Instead of inviting high ranking nobles to your Super Secret Conspiracy Meeting, you could throw a huge-ass party and invite the whole Known World to come. What better way to establish trade contracts than to get your clientele drunk first, eh?

We have a lot of behind the scenes stuff, and hooray for that, but large scale, palpable interaction (or dare I say... Conflict?) would be a good thing, in my opinion.

[Dan]

Whats stopping you?

Start a warrior and get alot of people together, buy some tents and go make your own raiding/fighting camp of destruction.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Whats stopping you?

:twisted:  Nothing. If I have my way, one way or the other, you folks are going to see a whole lot more interaction, as you say. And I mean visible, too. Stay tuned.

[Anonymous]

Whats stopping you?

I keep dying.

[Teleri]

Personally, I find that trying to start up any sort of large-scale interaction is far too much work.

So far, everything I've tried to do has involved a lot of OOC scribbling in notebooks and thinking OOCly when I'm not anywhere near the computer.  With all the plotting and the attempts at coordination, it seems like just far too much like work to me, and always drains me.  When I do manage to get on (which I haven't in what many would consider a very long time), I discover that my enjoyment of the game has dropped significantly.  The many ideas that I wrote down during the day before are easily thought out ICly within a matter of maybe 30 or 45 minutes, and contacting everyone that is needed takes even less time.  As there's not much more to do than that in my case, I'm usually out (at least emotionally and mentally) in about an hour.

As to what's stopping me in my position to actually make things happen that stand a slim chance of being even partially enjoyable...I'd say it's the lack of enthusiasm in the process.  Spontaneity is far more enjoyable, in my opinion, than the lengthy, thought-out plots that I probably should be doing.  I'd really rather have my character get pissed off at someone so much in IC interaction that he shanks them right then and there, rather than go through some elaborate plot just to get them killed.

Maybe the reason some areas see less interaction and whatnot is because it's just too tedious to get anything going.

[Kalden]

maybe a powerful Southern templar could send a larger scouting group to establish a camp?

That's a good idea, especially considering that Southerners aren't even apparently discriminated against. I'm seeing as many southerners up north as I am northerners. The 'nakki Templars need to take advantage of that fact, and send a whole troop of spies, maybe make up a new organization that claims to be northern based. That would be very interesting.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I must say that I agree. Only merchants with no apparent ties to either State should be allowed to move about like that. It is rather appalling, for I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in.

Perhaps I do not understand a few things, but to me, it makes little sence. Of course, there is almost always something going on 'behind the scenes' that I do not know of...

[Hoodwink]

I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in.

Is this really true?  Tuluk was the occupied nation for so long, one would think they have more reason to despise the other.  Though I suppose any foreigner visiting a city-state is the potential victim of scorn, which may keep the scale on somewhat middle ground as far as who hates/welcomes the other.

[Barzalene]

Recently, while playing a southerner in the north my pc felt uncomfortable about their accent and their southern background. I can't tell how much of this was internal and how much was motivated by prevailing sentiment, but there was a huge level of discomfort.

[Storm]

I must say that I agree. Only merchants with no apparent ties to either State should be allowed to move about like that. It is rather appalling, for I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in...

I think you're wrong in that the north-south discrimination is a non-issue in both cities. While, as with Tuluk, some Allanaki citizens and leadershp figures may discriminate, most do not.

I met someone in the south who was ic'ly punished quite severely (career-wise) for discriminating against northerners. To me, this is extremely silly.

While I agree that merchants should be allowed to move with some degree of freedom, I don't think they should be completely free from discrimination based on accent. A northern merchant may be a merchant, but he/she is still northern and in Allanak. Complaints about discrimination against them should be a non-issue that isn't taken seriously, their own problem. Meanwhile, discriminating against House merchants is an at-you-own-risk sort of deal. So you told the local northern Kadian that she's treacherous trash who deserves to die. Okay. Lots of people probably think it, but don't be surprised if you can't get an order from Kadius. Having your noble superior demote you for it, seems unrealistic, and unseemly on their part. Not only did they let a northerner waste their time with petty complaints, they went out of their way to go do something about it. Ditto for the north.

We need a more discrimination-friendly attitude from all parties!

[Forest Junkie]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Or hell, I could be totally wrong on that thought.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Storm:  When I said 'merchants with no apparent ties to either State...', I meant, literally, nomads or gypsy types. I did not mean Southern Merchants in Tuluk nor Northern Merchants in Allanak. If a Southern Merchant wants to work in Tuluk, the House who hires her should know that it is a stupid decision and say no. It is apparent that you ancestors were affiliated with their enemy, and you are also born here, so you will serve here. Otherwise, you harm our bottom line.

As far as how the South responds to Northerners, I do not know. I am speaking from logic and common sence. It is logic and common sence that dictates that niether City-State should be happy to see each other. I will tell you this right now. Should I play a Southerner, I'll not venture further than Luir's, and by the same token, my Northerners will not venture past Luir's.

Luir's is the enforced neutral ground. It should be just that.

Then there are those folk who do not have an accent. Those folk should logically be accepted anywhere, for by the code not stating that they've an accent, it is saying that they sound right to anyone as far as their accent goes.

[Barzalene]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Or hell, I could be totally wrong on that thought.

I completely disagree with you. The accent code is a deliberate feature. It isn't there by accident. If one were not supposed to use the accent code as an rp tool it would be removed.

[X-D]

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Ignorant, yes, incorrect roleplay oocly, No. Zalanthians are ignorant for the most part, to treat someone a particular way just because of accent is correct in most cases, No difference between making sure you hold tight to your sid cause there is an elf in the room and thinking all people with southern accents are dirty stinking magickers.


And, as far as accents, here is something, my pc has learned a few languages, and I know that....well, to make it short and not give away anything, are there more then 3 accents now, or has there always been and I've just not been paying attention?

[Anonymous]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

If that's the case you should ask to have your accent changed to match what it should be.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC

Well, here we agree to some extent, though if people from your land killed uncle Joejoe, it might be hard to be tolerant and accepting.

and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Ok, now I gotta disagree.  If you are playing a PC with a hatred for southerners, and here comes someone who has a southern drawl, why wouldn't that PC just assume they are a card carrying Tek-lover and proceed to hate them?

Those false presumptions are made based on an in-game clue.  Specifically, how the other PC talks.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck....

If anything I think this is exactly why the accent code was put into the game.  If we are supposed to ignore it and find out the 'real truth' of a PC's origin before deciding how we feel about them, what's the point of the code in the first place?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

And honestly, if you are playing a character who does not at the very least dislike dealing with North/South and you live in the North/South, you should probably have a good reason why you do not.

With the numerous predjudices and mis-conceptions which ran rampant in the world we play in, and indeed in real life itself, it is not normal not to dislike someone based on birthplace/race/or past.

I am not saying by any stretch of the words I write that it is OOC not to hate, I am simply saying that it is not normal.

[Hoodwink]

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

If you have a background which states you were born and raised in Red Storm, yet you've started in Tuluk because you've decided to play your character there under the notion that (s)he moved some time along the way, then you really ought to have someone on staff change your accent to southern.  If I hear someone with an accent different from mine I will take this into consideration IC and my likely first assumption is that while they may be a resident herein, they were likely raised someplace else to have earned the accent they have.

As for characters with no accents, if this phenomenon actually exists, I view it as OOC.  Everyone has an accent, it may not be an exaggerated twang but there are local dialects which vary from region to region.  I meet a lot of Americans who say "I don't have an accent" -- yes you do, assuming otherwise is the same arrogance (and ingorance?) which lead people to once believe Earth was the center of the universe and the sun rotated around us.  So I'm curious how characters accomplish having no accent in game.  It's impossible to sound like you don't have an accent to everyone, that implies you're changing your pronunciations based on who you speak with so that you sound "normal" to their ears.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

As for characters with no accents, if this phenomenon actually exists, I view it as OOC...

I once asked for my accent to be changed based on some IC study of practices and IC experience in the other region. I had my accent removed completely, and was told by the staff member that it was taken away completely because those who possess no accent have the ability to blend in anywhere.

This implies to me that while their accent is obviously not the accent of the region, it is familiar enough to not alarm anyone. If you feel that your character might dislike someone with no accent, then you should play it out that way. My experience, however, leads me to believe that the lack of an accent simply means that that PC 'fits' in. Nothing more, and nothing less.

[Hoodwink]

Yeah, see that's something I completely disagree with, The7DeadlyVenomz.  There's no way you can talk in such a way that you "blend in".  You say tomato I say tomato, right?  There's no middle ground, you either say it one way or you say it another, and to switch pronunciations based on who you speak with, well... what happens when you are in a room full of multi-national people?  Then what do you sound like?

[Rindan]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Your accent is based upon where you grew up.  If you are starting a guy who grew up in the North in Allanak, then get your accent changed to Northern.  It is a painless process and I have seen it done before for a newbie who started in Luir's and said he was an Allanaki.

It is good RP in my opinion to discriminate based upon accent alone.  

Just think of real life.  Let's say you are a good old fashion American bigot.  9/11 happens and you decide all Arabs are out to get you.  Is it good to assume someone with an Arab accent is one of those evil Islamic terrorist?  Absolutely not.  He very well could be a Christian Arab from Lebanon (a good friend of mine's family falls into this category).  The assumption is completely ignorant but it is something people do.

The same goes for the North and South.  If someone walks in with an accent that is clearly foreign, and not just foreign, but from the region of the world you hate, most ignorant bigots (that would be the entire population of both north and south) are just going to assume you are one of those evil bastards.  A southerner might be able to deflect hate if he can convince people he is from Red Storm, but I imagine to most even that distinction would be like trying to explain the difference between Iraq, Iran, and Kuwait to a Deep South bigot.   People are not terribly world.

I agree with those who would like to see more discrimination and tension.  I played an Allanak who went and lived in the North both before and after the war.  He was mean, abrasive, loud, and embodied just about all the qualities of Allanak.  One PC did an excellent job trying to make my life hell.  The rest though barely batted an eyebrow as my Allanak covered head to toe in Allanak gear and Allanak weapons strutted about pulling in piles of skin from the local animals.

[Hoodwink]

And just to add on the subject, imagine going into the heart of Alabama and speaking with your so called "blending in" accent.  The difference between the word pronunciation there and someone from New Zealand is immense, in some instances it's almost like a different language even!

The only way I could see this notion of "blending in" with an accent is if the accents on Zalanthas were still fairly similar -- if that were the case, why code it in so that every single time someone does a say/talk/tell their accent is mentioned?  As a North American you might say New Zealanders and Australians have a similar accent, but rest assured they do not, nor do they think of each other as having similar accents, indeed they can recognize it almost instantly.

I'm not saying YOU made the code that way, I'm just saying if this truly is the case I think it needs to be looked into.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Blend in = Fit in

Two different things.

Those with no accent DO have one, it is just not noticable enough or offensive enough to be taken into much account. I say that those with no accent fit in, not blend in.

It is, if you will, like a man from New York and a man from L.A. in California. Add to this a fellow from Germany. The man from Germany is going to be the one who cannot be understood by the two Americans. The two Americans will understand each other much better, and it is likely even that they will not notice each other's accent right off.

[Hoodwink]

Yeah, I guess I see what you mean, Venomz.  I was actually going to mention something along those lines but, honestly, it still doesn't fit right with me.  Not in terms of coding.  Unfortunately most everything in Arm is exact.  If X then Y.  But that would be difficult for it be any other way.

Maybe I'm over analyzing but if you "fit in", "blend in", what have you, with your accent then you still meet a certain criteria.  You still pronounce certain words one way and not one of the many other ways.  You either say vase (vey s) or vase (vah s), there's really no room for middle ground there.  To use your own example, two Americans with slightly different accents sound the same to a German, but their accents don't sound the same to each other.  

I agree, I've met Americans whose accent was so faint I couldn't notice it as ... American.  But rest assured to SOMEONE they definately sounded foreign to their ears.

[Forest Junkie]

Accents do NOT mean you are from a particular area 100% of the time, so I have to disagree.

And as far as I am concerned, it would be bad rp for a northerner to discriminate a southerner OPENLY just because their accent "sounds different".

How do you know IC that <pc>'s accent means he is from Allanak? Does the dialect sound that much different? And if it does, what are the differences in speech? My point: hostility to an accent=ooc and ic ignorance. I do agree that in some instances discrimination would make sense to certain pc's depending on how they rp their pc. This does not mean it is correct for ALL pc's to behave in this way. Then you would have conformity, which IMO sucks.

[Rindan]

Accents do NOT mean you are from a particular area 100% of the time, so I have to disagree.

And as far as I am concerned, it would be bad rp for a northerner to discriminate a southerner OPENLY just because their accent "sounds different".

How do you know IC that <pc>'s accent means he is from Allanak? Does the dialect sound that much different? And if it does, what are the differences in speech? My point: hostility to an accent=ooc and ic ignorance. I do agree that in some instances discrimination would make sense to certain pc's depending on how they rp their pc. This does not mean it is correct for ALL pc's to behave in this way. Then you would have conformity, which IMO sucks.

How do you know IC he is from Allanak?  Because he talks like all the other Allanaki talk!  Of course you can tell the difference between the two accents.  Why bother to code accents if their speech is the same?  If someone speaks with an English accent to me and I hate English blindly and ignorantly, I will assume they are English.  It very could well be I am mistaking an English accent for some other European accent, but to my ears it is all the same.  Allanak is it when it comes to civilization in the South.  If someone speaks with a southern accent at you, 99% of the time they are from Allanak.  Red Storm has less then 10,000 people in it.  They are a small fraction of the South.  Everyone else is in Allanak or one of its villages.  Assuming someone speaking with a southern accent is a 'nakkie is a perfectly valid and IC assumption.

[mansa]

Just like us Canadians, eh?  What's all that aboot?
Sure, some accents might just be certain words, but...when I was in Atlanta, at the APM, I could definitely tell that everybody was talking weird.  Americans are funny.

[Forest Junkie]

How do you know what an Allanaki talks like if you've never heard one?

They could just sound 'funny'...

Hell this is pointless.

Uncle, I give up!

[X-D]

Another thing, on the no accent in game, I myself IRL am very good at picking up accents, I'm good enough at it that in a couple days A native of an area still thinks I talk a bit funny, but they will not be able to place where I am actually from and I have successfully played it off as being a native who has been somewhere else for a couple years.

I've even played it off as being from a different section of the same area.
Hell, I've been in kansas for like 4 years now, I now notice my wife's northeastern accent and she notices my current accent, most people here when they meet me ask what school I went too, So yes, it is quite easy to blend...even fit in.

[Rindan]

How do you know what an Allanaki talks like if you've never heard one?

They could just sound 'funny'...

Hell this is pointless.

Uncle, I give up!

Allanak occupied the place for 40 years.  All the merchant houses are represented in Tuluk and they certainly all have southerners there.  Byn mercenaries are a regular sight and generally have a good deal of mixing of North and South.  I would say it is safe to say that most can reconize a southern accent.  There certainly might be some that can't, but must I imagine would.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You know, I was just reading back over this entire thread. We are so far off topic now that it is astounding, and yet it is still relevant to the game. It is good when we can get a discussion going like this, where it can veer and swerve and dive, and inspire thought and debate on the world in which we play in. We may not agree much upon everything, but it certianly offers up alternate views and various choices of play, as well as perhaps serving to open our eyes a bit.

From now on, perhaps we should not discount going off topic quite so fast. This particular swerve has offered up some nuggets of wisdom and examples of well thought-out and valid postings by various minds, and that is certianly good. If we can primarily stay civilized when engaging in these long and enlightening debates, we will not only better ourselves, but also give to the community at large, for there are a goodly number of folks who do not post much at all, but very likely read each and every post.

Kudos, folks.

[Hoodwink]

Yes, but if you're blending in as you describe, X-D, that means you are changing your accent to match someone else's, which in turn means you will then sound different to someone else.  If you create some sort of accent that sounds somewhere in between a Brit and an Aussie that means you still sound different to an American.  Perhaps it's different in game because the only coded accents are Southern, Northern and Rinthi, however, when applying it to real life there are just too many accents in the English language to sound "normal" to every ear.  Some accents are so different that speaking in some sort of "middle ground", between one accent and the other, just isn't possible -- I like to think this can be applied with at least two of the Arm accents.  Imagine trying to convince me that you can speak English in such a way that someone from Nigeria (English speaking section) and someone from Kentucky both think you sound like natives from their own land while addressing them simultaneously.  IMPOSSIBLE!

I realize this has gone completely off track here but I still felt it one of those game schematics that really needs to be considered.

[X-D]

Of course that would be impossible to do, but why would you want to try? Unless you were trying to be a comedian.

In that situation you have basicly a choice between sounding like one of them or sounding like neither.

Point is really, I lived in SC for a year, now, in just 10 min or so I can fall back into the manner of speaking for the area I was in, So, that in a room full of natives from SC you will not be able to easily pick me out as the yank.

In Ohio there are 3 regional accents, I can easily do all 3, in michigan there are 2 regional accents and one region also has several sub accents.

If I am in Ohio and I'm talking to 2 people, one with the toledo/cleveland accent, and the other with the cinci accent I simply use the columbus/dayton accent, An accent both people have heard and know are from Ohio....Make sense? This way they do not know I'm a hated Michigander :twisted:

[Anonymous]

I think any discussion about accents should note that from what I've read by the staff, the known world is like, the size of Nevada.

So think of it this way, Hoodwink.  In New England a real Maine hick is going to sound a lot different from a dyed in the wool 'Yankees suck' Boston rube.

But those are opposite ends of that spectrum.  Every day I meet some people who don't have a discernable accent that I could place.  I talk to a lot of them on the phone as well.  People in California, people in Colorado, people in Charlotte.  Without accents.  And then some who do.

So someone without a noticeable accent isn't displaying the characteristic traits of that any particular accent.

But due to the geographical closeness of the two city-states, I don't think the extremes in accent would be as far removed as some bloke from Austrailia is from some Cajun guy in Louisiana.