Just a little statistic.

[Teleri]

Personally, I find that trying to start up any sort of large-scale interaction is far too much work.

So far, everything I've tried to do has involved a lot of OOC scribbling in notebooks and thinking OOCly when I'm not anywhere near the computer.  With all the plotting and the attempts at coordination, it seems like just far too much like work to me, and always drains me.  When I do manage to get on (which I haven't in what many would consider a very long time), I discover that my enjoyment of the game has dropped significantly.  The many ideas that I wrote down during the day before are easily thought out ICly within a matter of maybe 30 or 45 minutes, and contacting everyone that is needed takes even less time.  As there's not much more to do than that in my case, I'm usually out (at least emotionally and mentally) in about an hour.

As to what's stopping me in my position to actually make things happen that stand a slim chance of being even partially enjoyable...I'd say it's the lack of enthusiasm in the process.  Spontaneity is far more enjoyable, in my opinion, than the lengthy, thought-out plots that I probably should be doing.  I'd really rather have my character get pissed off at someone so much in IC interaction that he shanks them right then and there, rather than go through some elaborate plot just to get them killed.

Maybe the reason some areas see less interaction and whatnot is because it's just too tedious to get anything going.

[Kalden]

maybe a powerful Southern templar could send a larger scouting group to establish a camp?

That's a good idea, especially considering that Southerners aren't even apparently discriminated against. I'm seeing as many southerners up north as I am northerners. The 'nakki Templars need to take advantage of that fact, and send a whole troop of spies, maybe make up a new organization that claims to be northern based. That would be very interesting.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I must say that I agree. Only merchants with no apparent ties to either State should be allowed to move about like that. It is rather appalling, for I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in.

Perhaps I do not understand a few things, but to me, it makes little sence. Of course, there is almost always something going on 'behind the scenes' that I do not know of...

[Hoodwink]

I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in.

Is this really true?  Tuluk was the occupied nation for so long, one would think they have more reason to despise the other.  Though I suppose any foreigner visiting a city-state is the potential victim of scorn, which may keep the scale on somewhat middle ground as far as who hates/welcomes the other.

[Barzalene]

Recently, while playing a southerner in the north my pc felt uncomfortable about their accent and their southern background. I can't tell how much of this was internal and how much was motivated by prevailing sentiment, but there was a huge level of discomfort.

[Storm]

I must say that I agree. Only merchants with no apparent ties to either State should be allowed to move about like that. It is rather appalling, for I am very certian that Southerners do NOT welcome northerners the way the Northerners allow the Southerners in...

I think you're wrong in that the north-south discrimination is a non-issue in both cities. While, as with Tuluk, some Allanaki citizens and leadershp figures may discriminate, most do not.

I met someone in the south who was ic'ly punished quite severely (career-wise) for discriminating against northerners. To me, this is extremely silly.

While I agree that merchants should be allowed to move with some degree of freedom, I don't think they should be completely free from discrimination based on accent. A northern merchant may be a merchant, but he/she is still northern and in Allanak. Complaints about discrimination against them should be a non-issue that isn't taken seriously, their own problem. Meanwhile, discriminating against House merchants is an at-you-own-risk sort of deal. So you told the local northern Kadian that she's treacherous trash who deserves to die. Okay. Lots of people probably think it, but don't be surprised if you can't get an order from Kadius. Having your noble superior demote you for it, seems unrealistic, and unseemly on their part. Not only did they let a northerner waste their time with petty complaints, they went out of their way to go do something about it. Ditto for the north.

We need a more discrimination-friendly attitude from all parties!

[Forest Junkie]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Or hell, I could be totally wrong on that thought.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Storm:  When I said 'merchants with no apparent ties to either State...', I meant, literally, nomads or gypsy types. I did not mean Southern Merchants in Tuluk nor Northern Merchants in Allanak. If a Southern Merchant wants to work in Tuluk, the House who hires her should know that it is a stupid decision and say no. It is apparent that you ancestors were affiliated with their enemy, and you are also born here, so you will serve here. Otherwise, you harm our bottom line.

As far as how the South responds to Northerners, I do not know. I am speaking from logic and common sence. It is logic and common sence that dictates that niether City-State should be happy to see each other. I will tell you this right now. Should I play a Southerner, I'll not venture further than Luir's, and by the same token, my Northerners will not venture past Luir's.

Luir's is the enforced neutral ground. It should be just that.

Then there are those folk who do not have an accent. Those folk should logically be accepted anywhere, for by the code not stating that they've an accent, it is saying that they sound right to anyone as far as their accent goes.

[Barzalene]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Or hell, I could be totally wrong on that thought.

I completely disagree with you. The accent code is a deliberate feature. It isn't there by accident. If one were not supposed to use the accent code as an rp tool it would be removed.

[X-D]

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Ignorant, yes, incorrect roleplay oocly, No. Zalanthians are ignorant for the most part, to treat someone a particular way just because of accent is correct in most cases, No difference between making sure you hold tight to your sid cause there is an elf in the room and thinking all people with southern accents are dirty stinking magickers.


And, as far as accents, here is something, my pc has learned a few languages, and I know that....well, to make it short and not give away anything, are there more then 3 accents now, or has there always been and I've just not been paying attention?

[Anonymous]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

If that's the case you should ask to have your accent changed to match what it should be.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC

Well, here we agree to some extent, though if people from your land killed uncle Joejoe, it might be hard to be tolerant and accepting.

and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Ok, now I gotta disagree.  If you are playing a PC with a hatred for southerners, and here comes someone who has a southern drawl, why wouldn't that PC just assume they are a card carrying Tek-lover and proceed to hate them?

Those false presumptions are made based on an in-game clue.  Specifically, how the other PC talks.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck....

If anything I think this is exactly why the accent code was put into the game.  If we are supposed to ignore it and find out the 'real truth' of a PC's origin before deciding how we feel about them, what's the point of the code in the first place?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

And honestly, if you are playing a character who does not at the very least dislike dealing with North/South and you live in the North/South, you should probably have a good reason why you do not.

With the numerous predjudices and mis-conceptions which ran rampant in the world we play in, and indeed in real life itself, it is not normal not to dislike someone based on birthplace/race/or past.

I am not saying by any stretch of the words I write that it is OOC not to hate, I am simply saying that it is not normal.

[Hoodwink]

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

If you have a background which states you were born and raised in Red Storm, yet you've started in Tuluk because you've decided to play your character there under the notion that (s)he moved some time along the way, then you really ought to have someone on staff change your accent to southern.  If I hear someone with an accent different from mine I will take this into consideration IC and my likely first assumption is that while they may be a resident herein, they were likely raised someplace else to have earned the accent they have.

As for characters with no accents, if this phenomenon actually exists, I view it as OOC.  Everyone has an accent, it may not be an exaggerated twang but there are local dialects which vary from region to region.  I meet a lot of Americans who say "I don't have an accent" -- yes you do, assuming otherwise is the same arrogance (and ingorance?) which lead people to once believe Earth was the center of the universe and the sun rotated around us.  So I'm curious how characters accomplish having no accent in game.  It's impossible to sound like you don't have an accent to everyone, that implies you're changing your pronunciations based on who you speak with so that you sound "normal" to their ears.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

As for characters with no accents, if this phenomenon actually exists, I view it as OOC...

I once asked for my accent to be changed based on some IC study of practices and IC experience in the other region. I had my accent removed completely, and was told by the staff member that it was taken away completely because those who possess no accent have the ability to blend in anywhere.

This implies to me that while their accent is obviously not the accent of the region, it is familiar enough to not alarm anyone. If you feel that your character might dislike someone with no accent, then you should play it out that way. My experience, however, leads me to believe that the lack of an accent simply means that that PC 'fits' in. Nothing more, and nothing less.

[Hoodwink]

Yeah, see that's something I completely disagree with, The7DeadlyVenomz.  There's no way you can talk in such a way that you "blend in".  You say tomato I say tomato, right?  There's no middle ground, you either say it one way or you say it another, and to switch pronunciations based on who you speak with, well... what happens when you are in a room full of multi-national people?  Then what do you sound like?

[Rindan]

One's accent does not necessarily make them from that region, does it?

Your accent is given to you based on your starting city, not where you are actually from IC.

To discriminate against one for their accent would seem ignorant to me, IC and OOC. False presumptions are made by the player ooc, which then transmits into their pc they roleplay, which in turn creates an unfair bias IMO.

Your accent is based upon where you grew up.  If you are starting a guy who grew up in the North in Allanak, then get your accent changed to Northern.  It is a painless process and I have seen it done before for a newbie who started in Luir's and said he was an Allanaki.

It is good RP in my opinion to discriminate based upon accent alone.  

Just think of real life.  Let's say you are a good old fashion American bigot.  9/11 happens and you decide all Arabs are out to get you.  Is it good to assume someone with an Arab accent is one of those evil Islamic terrorist?  Absolutely not.  He very well could be a Christian Arab from Lebanon (a good friend of mine's family falls into this category).  The assumption is completely ignorant but it is something people do.

The same goes for the North and South.  If someone walks in with an accent that is clearly foreign, and not just foreign, but from the region of the world you hate, most ignorant bigots (that would be the entire population of both north and south) are just going to assume you are one of those evil bastards.  A southerner might be able to deflect hate if he can convince people he is from Red Storm, but I imagine to most even that distinction would be like trying to explain the difference between Iraq, Iran, and Kuwait to a Deep South bigot.   People are not terribly world.

I agree with those who would like to see more discrimination and tension.  I played an Allanak who went and lived in the North both before and after the war.  He was mean, abrasive, loud, and embodied just about all the qualities of Allanak.  One PC did an excellent job trying to make my life hell.  The rest though barely batted an eyebrow as my Allanak covered head to toe in Allanak gear and Allanak weapons strutted about pulling in piles of skin from the local animals.

[Hoodwink]

And just to add on the subject, imagine going into the heart of Alabama and speaking with your so called "blending in" accent.  The difference between the word pronunciation there and someone from New Zealand is immense, in some instances it's almost like a different language even!

The only way I could see this notion of "blending in" with an accent is if the accents on Zalanthas were still fairly similar -- if that were the case, why code it in so that every single time someone does a say/talk/tell their accent is mentioned?  As a North American you might say New Zealanders and Australians have a similar accent, but rest assured they do not, nor do they think of each other as having similar accents, indeed they can recognize it almost instantly.

I'm not saying YOU made the code that way, I'm just saying if this truly is the case I think it needs to be looked into.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Blend in = Fit in

Two different things.

Those with no accent DO have one, it is just not noticable enough or offensive enough to be taken into much account. I say that those with no accent fit in, not blend in.

It is, if you will, like a man from New York and a man from L.A. in California. Add to this a fellow from Germany. The man from Germany is going to be the one who cannot be understood by the two Americans. The two Americans will understand each other much better, and it is likely even that they will not notice each other's accent right off.

[Hoodwink]

Yeah, I guess I see what you mean, Venomz.  I was actually going to mention something along those lines but, honestly, it still doesn't fit right with me.  Not in terms of coding.  Unfortunately most everything in Arm is exact.  If X then Y.  But that would be difficult for it be any other way.

Maybe I'm over analyzing but if you "fit in", "blend in", what have you, with your accent then you still meet a certain criteria.  You still pronounce certain words one way and not one of the many other ways.  You either say vase (vey s) or vase (vah s), there's really no room for middle ground there.  To use your own example, two Americans with slightly different accents sound the same to a German, but their accents don't sound the same to each other.  

I agree, I've met Americans whose accent was so faint I couldn't notice it as ... American.  But rest assured to SOMEONE they definately sounded foreign to their ears.

[Forest Junkie]

Accents do NOT mean you are from a particular area 100% of the time, so I have to disagree.

And as far as I am concerned, it would be bad rp for a northerner to discriminate a southerner OPENLY just because their accent "sounds different".

How do you know IC that <pc>'s accent means he is from Allanak? Does the dialect sound that much different? And if it does, what are the differences in speech? My point: hostility to an accent=ooc and ic ignorance. I do agree that in some instances discrimination would make sense to certain pc's depending on how they rp their pc. This does not mean it is correct for ALL pc's to behave in this way. Then you would have conformity, which IMO sucks.

[Rindan]

Accents do NOT mean you are from a particular area 100% of the time, so I have to disagree.

And as far as I am concerned, it would be bad rp for a northerner to discriminate a southerner OPENLY just because their accent "sounds different".

How do you know IC that <pc>'s accent means he is from Allanak? Does the dialect sound that much different? And if it does, what are the differences in speech? My point: hostility to an accent=ooc and ic ignorance. I do agree that in some instances discrimination would make sense to certain pc's depending on how they rp their pc. This does not mean it is correct for ALL pc's to behave in this way. Then you would have conformity, which IMO sucks.

How do you know IC he is from Allanak?  Because he talks like all the other Allanaki talk!  Of course you can tell the difference between the two accents.  Why bother to code accents if their speech is the same?  If someone speaks with an English accent to me and I hate English blindly and ignorantly, I will assume they are English.  It very could well be I am mistaking an English accent for some other European accent, but to my ears it is all the same.  Allanak is it when it comes to civilization in the South.  If someone speaks with a southern accent at you, 99% of the time they are from Allanak.  Red Storm has less then 10,000 people in it.  They are a small fraction of the South.  Everyone else is in Allanak or one of its villages.  Assuming someone speaking with a southern accent is a 'nakkie is a perfectly valid and IC assumption.

[mansa]

Just like us Canadians, eh?  What's all that aboot?
Sure, some accents might just be certain words, but...when I was in Atlanta, at the APM, I could definitely tell that everybody was talking weird.  Americans are funny.

[Forest Junkie]

How do you know what an Allanaki talks like if you've never heard one?

They could just sound 'funny'...

Hell this is pointless.

Uncle, I give up!

[X-D]

Another thing, on the no accent in game, I myself IRL am very good at picking up accents, I'm good enough at it that in a couple days A native of an area still thinks I talk a bit funny, but they will not be able to place where I am actually from and I have successfully played it off as being a native who has been somewhere else for a couple years.

I've even played it off as being from a different section of the same area.
Hell, I've been in kansas for like 4 years now, I now notice my wife's northeastern accent and she notices my current accent, most people here when they meet me ask what school I went too, So yes, it is quite easy to blend...even fit in.

[Rindan]

How do you know what an Allanaki talks like if you've never heard one?

They could just sound 'funny'...

Hell this is pointless.

Uncle, I give up!

Allanak occupied the place for 40 years.  All the merchant houses are represented in Tuluk and they certainly all have southerners there.  Byn mercenaries are a regular sight and generally have a good deal of mixing of North and South.  I would say it is safe to say that most can reconize a southern accent.  There certainly might be some that can't, but must I imagine would.