Brawl Warning (Hit, not Kill, not Kick, not Bash, not nothing but Hit)

[nauta]

In order to brawl, you need to use 'hit', and any other combat-initiating command will bring an almost certain death upon your head.  KICK is perhaps the most obvious offender here.

I'm sure it's been asked before, but I've seen enough of these -- and it's really hard to RP around just like lemming falls --- that I thought I'd kick it up top (pun intended). 

Hopefully, it's an easy fix.  Two ideas for implementation:

1. (Code solution.) One could implement a warning in certain rooms that are brawl friendly when one types in a combat initiating command, e.g., "Are you sure you want to kill|kick|bash|disarm here?  Your death will literally be brutal and swift.  Use 'hit' to engage in a brawl."  (The problem with this is that sometimes you actually do want to initiate combat, and so the code would be complicated.)

2. (No-code solution.) Simply add to the room desc of brawl-friendly rooms something like: "OOC: You may brawl in this room with the 'hit' command.  Other commands will bring your certain death.  See HELP BRAWL."  (The problem with this is that OOC messages -- which are in some rooms or on some NPCs -- are a bit immersion breaking.)

Any other solutions?

[JackGibbons]

I don't know criminal code and how it works.

Doesn't 'Not resisting arrest' just mean you get subdued and drug to a jail?

While not directly solving your problem, could a player at least prevent THEMSELVES from being code-nuked if their opponent uses 'KICK' by remembering to 'nosave combat' at the start of a brawl? Would the fact that they are merely defending in a fight instead of swinging back save them from the enforcer NPC attacks?

Sorry it's a little off topic: I can't think of better options for your main idea, but if my understanding is correct, at least we can add the additional tip to defend yourself against someone ELSE's lemmingness. Just remember to put nosave combat back on when you leave.

[Saellyn]

I don't know criminal code and how it works.

Doesn't 'Not resisting arrest' just mean you get subdued and drug to a jail?

While not directly solving your problem, could a player at least prevent THEMSELVES from being code-nuked if their opponent uses 'KICK' by remembering to 'nosave combat' at the start of a brawl? Would the fact that they are merely defending in a fight instead of swinging back save them from the enforcer NPC attacks?

Sorry it's a little off topic: I can't think of better options for your main idea, but if my understanding is correct, at least we can add the additional tip to defend yourself against someone ELSE's lemmingness. Just remember to put nosave combat back on when you leave.

Mid combat, "not reisisting arrest" means fuck all. You get roflstomped the moment they can't subdue you, and you can't subdue mid-combat, so you get roflstomped.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't know criminal code and how it works.

Doesn't 'Not resisting arrest' just mean you get subdued and drug to a jail?

While not directly solving your problem, could a player at least prevent THEMSELVES from being code-nuked if their opponent uses 'KICK' by remembering to 'nosave combat' at the start of a brawl? Would the fact that they are merely defending in a fight instead of swinging back save them from the enforcer NPC attacks?

Sorry it's a little off topic: I can't think of better options for your main idea, but if my understanding is correct, at least we can add the additional tip to defend yourself against someone ELSE's lemmingness. Just remember to put nosave combat back on when you leave.

Resisting arrest doesn't work when you're in middle of combat, so the NPC's just attack. You can flee, and then reset no-save arrest(because it turns off after fleeing I believe).

The person being attacked does not get crim-flaged and attacked by NPC soldiers.

I really like the idea of [Are you sure you want to kill Amos, and not HIT him for a brawl? doing this will cause soldiers to attack you, type 'Kill amos now' if not] type warning when you use kill in a tavern.

[Asmoth]

I don't know criminal code and how it works.

Doesn't 'Not resisting arrest' just mean you get subdued and drug to a jail?

While not directly solving your problem, could a player at least prevent THEMSELVES from being code-nuked if their opponent uses 'KICK' by remembering to 'nosave combat' at the start of a brawl? Would the fact that they are merely defending in a fight instead of swinging back save them from the enforcer NPC attacks?

Sorry it's a little off topic: I can't think of better options for your main idea, but if my understanding is correct, at least we can add the additional tip to defend yourself against someone ELSE's lemmingness. Just remember to put nosave combat back on when you leave.

Mid combat, "not reisisting arrest" means fuck all. You get roflstomped the moment they can't subdue you, and you can't subdue mid-combat, so you get roflstomped.

Agreed, I made a criminal who died first day because I thought turning off nosave would help me.

Noticed I'm getting sliced to death, surrendered, they chopped my head off.

[JackGibbons]

Thanks, guys. Never been in that situation before. Also seems my suggestion is pointless since the defender is already safe from being hit by NPC guards even if they're swinging back.

I've heard some people say to use nosave combat in Luirs, though. Does their guard system work differently or something?

[Asmoth]

Thanks, guys. Never been in that situation before. Also seems my suggestion is pointless since the defender is already safe from being hit by NPC guards even if they're swinging back.

I've heard some people say to use nosave combat in Luirs, though. Does their guard system work differently or something?

And a criminal can be openly attacked by anyone (unless they finally changed this) I took out one of my enemies once by putting spice in his bag and following him into the city then finishing him with the half giant soldier.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've heard some people say to use nosave combat in Luirs, though. Does their guard system work differently or something?

This is true. Luirs functions differently. (yo staff wtf is up with that?)

And a criminal can be openly attacked by anyone (unless they finally changed this) I took out one of my enemies once by putting spice in his bag and following him into the city then finishing him with the half giant soldier.

Dude I hope that is a "when I was young and dumb" type of story. It sounds horribly meta and twinkish.

Guards shouldn't be attacking people after a search(yo staff wtf is up with that?). You using this to help assist in a kill is based entirely on OOC knowledge.

[Asmoth]

I've heard some people say to use nosave combat in Luirs, though. Does their guard system work differently or something?

This is true. Luirs functions differently. (yo staff wtf is up with that?)

And a criminal can be openly attacked by anyone (unless they finally changed this) I took out one of my enemies once by putting spice in his bag and following him into the city then finishing him with the half giant soldier.

Dude I hope that is a "when I was young and dumb" type of story. It sounds horribly meta and twinkish.

Guards shouldn't be attacking people after a search(yo staff wtf is up with that?). You using this to help assist in a kill is based entirely on OOC knowledge.

It was IC.  I know that the guards check for spice, I put spice in your bag to get them to go apeshit on you.  You walk in carrying that bag, ding😉

[RogueGunslinger]

The guards check for spice. It is in no way IC that the guards murder-fuck everyone who breaks the smallest law. They should be grabbing people and taking them to jail. The only reason you knew to do this was a quirk of OOC code.

[fourTwenty]

I've never actually done that but I've thought about it. I don't agree with it being OOC knowledge. I think at this point if you're from 'Nak you would know that walking through the gates with spice is grounds to get skullfucked into the sand.

[Asmoth]

The guards check for spice. It is in no way IC that the guards murder-fuck everyone who breaks the smallest law. They should be grabbing people and taking them to jail. The only reason you knew to do this was a quirk of OOC code.

Nooo, I knew me and this criminal character both had nosave arrest off.

I also knew that I couldn't take him alone.  So if anything, I guess I did know he would automatically fight the guards subdue and used that knowledge to my benefit.

Was that you all those years ago?

[nauta]

Yeah, so this is all a derail, guys!  Thanks.

[RogueGunslinger]

Shit-mugging someone is IC too then, I guess?

Nooo, I knew me and this criminal character both had nosave arrest off.

More OOC knowledge...

Was that you all those years ago?

No.

[Asmoth]

Shit-mugging someone is IC too then, I guess?

Yup, just like I used to poison the gem to count d elf corpses and get fat loot is ic.

[RogueGunslinger]

Shit-mugging someone is IC too then, I guess?

Yup, just like I used to poison the gem to count d elf corpses and get fat loot is ic.

Those are in no way similar, the fact that you think someone would realistically drink a mug of shit without knowing is mind-boggling.

[Asmoth]

Shit-mugging someone is IC too then, I guess?

Yup, just like I used to poison the gem to count d elf corpses and get fat loot is ic.

Those are in no way similar, the fact that you think someone would realistically drink a mug of shit without knowing is mind-boggling.

Look in mug
Is a command they can use.
Sip mug is a command they can use.

Shit mug me and I'll lol and go, well I shoulda sipped.

[RogueGunslinger]

Code Select Expand

l in mug

>it's full of brown liquid.

sniff mug

That smells like nothing.

sip mug

>whoops that was a mistake!


Look, it's pretty clear you think anything that is possible with code is A-OK. Lets just agree to disagree.

[Saellyn]

So anyways, I will say that many eons ago I was the victim of kicking someone in a bar in Tuluk and was lucky there were no soldiers there. That said, I think it might do for new players to have a brawling warning of some kind because I see lots of people die to "kill man" in bars.

p.s. take your OOC meta abuse to another thread.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm not sure Arm/Diku actually has the capability for coded prompt-response ("Are you sure?") sort of dialog in-game.  The most stateful command set I can think of is offer/barter.

[RogueGunslinger]

The shield wall does this so you don't fall off part of it. Maybe that's something different?

[Refugee]

Pretty good idea.

[JackGibbons]

I'm not sure Arm/Diku actually has the capability for coded prompt-response ("Are you sure?") sort of dialog in-game.  The most stateful command set I can think of is offer/barter.

That is trickier, however the way we did it on Shadows of Isildur, which is a Diku derivative by way of HL, was like this:


a 'group' in SOI is the list of all the people who are following you. We have the same thing here, except no handy command to show the current members. As a protection against shit like "kill beetle", you can't do "kill X" where X would map to a member of your group. If you REALLY wanted to, you'd have to do "kill X!" with that exclamation mark.

So rather than making a prompt, it just checks for the ! as one of the arguments to the command and just spits out a message to you saying You have to use the ! to initiate combat against a member of your group to you as needed.

Then you up arrow and add !

So yeah rather than remembering your previous command and starting a whole prompt system, it ties it to the individual command with a confirmation flag.

[CodeMaster]

I'm not sure Arm/Diku actually has the capability for coded prompt-response ("Are you sure?") sort of dialog in-game.  The most stateful command set I can think of is offer/barter.

It does and already exists in the game in certain locations.

[edit: that's not to say the coders don't have higher priorities, but I like the idea since it's a real gotcha]

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I lost a cool character to this. The problem is, with me, I do it completely by accident, because my bynner or whatever is used to tying 'kill.'