My problem with clans...

[Refugee]

I've played the sponsored warrior sergeant...trust me.  He got good armor starting out but his skills weren't even close to good.  It's embarrassing really, getting your ass kicked by runners with a few weeks in, lol.  I really think someone coming in as a PC with several years of experience behind them -should- have much higher skills so they can concentrate on RP and leading instead of having to train up skills like a recruit.

I have bad luck with clans.  They close up or empty out...  But I keep joining them.  Why?  Because it's where the greatest plots are, and I love plots, man.  Clan leaders are always up to stuff and if you don't think so, it's because they find you too useless or annoying to include you.

[Molten Heart]

If you let yourself be pigeon-holed that's your own fault. There's plenty of freedom in whatever role you play, if you want to look for it.

Generally speaking I avoid being pigeonholed by doing what I want, generally this means avoiding people in noble/merchant house clans because.... robots.

[nauta]

Clan leaders are always up to stuff and if you don't think so, it's because they find you too useless or annoying to include you.

I've had great experiences in the clans I've been in so far.  I really just wanted to post to say that even if you are 'useless' (as most of my characters are codedly) I still get included in the fun plots.  My florist Dasari even did something epic during one of those massive combat battles a while back.

[hopeandsorrow]

I don't play in clans cause of restrictions.  I only get uppity about it when people get on a "NERF INDIES" power trip in a poor attempt to make clan play more attractive.   Other then that, I'm cool with letting clans exist as is.

What's up every one? It is I, a tyrannical, too big for my britches helper. While the passion on display here is admirable, the gdb is not a place to hold thinly veiled personal arguments or snipe back and forth about....things. I will leave this thread unlocked in the hope that it turns into a useful and reasonable discussion. Consider the wisdom of this course of action, and have a beautiful day. Thanks!

This comment: Absolutely Savage

[Desertman]

Alright, so I think most of us have been in a clan, or will be.

My problem is that most clans are so restrictive I find myself having to invent scenarios to make it not so boring.

This probably isn't a big deal, because roleplaying game and all, but it got me thinking about posting a thread about things I think should be changed.

1. Restrictions on going outside the city, yes I know it's dangerous, yes I know that many people die to random mekillots or less.  But we are beautiful animals who need to spread our wings, not wait two months of playing before we start to do stuff.

Play a leader. You will quickly understand why this is the case. You will quickly realize that MOST of the people you spend your hours upon hours hiring have no business going out of the gates alone because they will just waste YOUR investment. You could also play the leader who said, "Look, I don't care if you leave the gates. If I don't see it, it didn't happen. Just be smart.", and see how that works for you. I have also played the leader who did this with a few of my minions because I could trust them.

2. The whole, we gave you one of our one hundred sets of random armor, so you better not piss us off or we will put it back on the stack!  Seriously, if you are getting this shit in game, just to forage salt and roll the dice, you'll be able to buy your own and not have them dangling this over your head.

Ok.

3. It seems like people want to embrace only the super obedient soldier/clannie etc.  every organization has those people that aren't asskissers, but still get the job done.  While your boss can and may say, do this.  That doesn't mean after you do it you need to instantly seek them out for your next task, your not a dog. I sometimes wanna pick up a large bone and throw it and say get it clannie! Good boy!

You don't like super-obedient minions. Ok. I don't see your point beyond you don't like them personally and wanted to make a passive aggressive complaint about them.

4.  This might be just my own experience, but it seems like I tend to join clans where a good chunk of them are idling in clan property, and or off doing their own thing.  Which is fine, but don't get pissy when I notice you sitting in that one room for three hours and decide, fuck it, I'm doing something. Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

Again, I'm not sure what your point is here. Seems like just another attempt to passive aggressively complain about someone/some people on the GDB you don't like.

5. Take away mandatory time limits on promotion.  Make it merit based and not calendar based.

Usually this depends on the leader you have. I've never once played a leader who gave a flying fuck about the calendar. Join leaders like that if you want to be promoted based on your merits. In fact, I've never once had a clanned PC who wasn't promoted ahead of time in the last ten years to my knowledge. If you aren't getting your promotions early, chances are, you aren't earning them in your leader's eyes.

6.  Stop acting like food and water is a suitable payment method.  It's not, really if you've played the game for more than a day, it's not. (This is one of those, Documentation doesn't accurately reflect the game world.  If you want this to be such a huge benefit, then make it one.)

Agreed, for people who know how to play the game. For brand new players food and water being given to them is an awesome payment. For experienced players, it's laughable. But, I find MOST clans are designed around the idea of employees being OOC'ly new to the game. Keep in mind, the structures for a lot these Houses have existed since more or less the beginning of the game where MOST people joining them would be relatively new players. I do agree that we probably need to change up many things about the way clans are designed in terms of IC rewards and achievement concepts based mainly on the fact we have a ton of veterans now. We didn't have those veterans when these clans were first created for the game world, but we are still using the same ideas and structures we created for the playerbase we had back then. Basically, it's a dated design that hasn't evolved with what our playerbase actually is now. Most clans are designed to appease/keep interested the playerbase we had fifteen years ago.

If anything it's just convenient.  Not something that's like OMG THANK YOU.  Even 100 coins a month would be better than payment in food and water.

There are clans, both staff-sponsored and not, that will pay you a lot more than this. Join those clans. It is also wise to pick leaders based on their IC merits. A lot of the time if you are worth it those leaders will make you independently wealthy despite what the "pay structure" is if you are valuable to them. These are good leaders.

Random Thought about clans: Stop making sponsored roles for sergeants and shit, make people earn that, no insta buffed badasses because people can't or don't want to become a leader in the clan.

While I agree that promoting someone from within the ranks is infinitely better not only for the current players of that clan, but also for the health of the clan and the game as a whole, sometimes it just isn't an option. Sometimes, there isn't anyone there to promote. Sometimes staff has to put in a hiring catalyst to get things going. I do generally see special-app leaders as paper-bag leaders who are just there until someone "who has earned it" can rise up and take their place, but, sometimes there isn't any other option.

Wishlist:
More fluidity in the clans, if you work for Kadius, and someone wants to buy something simple yet not in a coded store, should be able to sell it if merchant bignuts isn't around.  This making people wait for days shit, just because merchant bignuts is living real life is stupid.

Merchant Bignuts should be fired and someone who actually wants to play an active merchant should be hired. Easy fix, but it would make a lot of people butthurt.

RPTS: organized ooc on the clan boards or ic boards that some folks have in their barracks able to be thought up by anyone.  This goes back to that too much sitting in one room with my thumb up my butt problem.

I'm not sure what you are asking for here.

IC GOSSIP TYPE BOARDS: Every clan should have these, because I don't want to have to check the boards for every single notice or rumor going on in the game.

I think most do....if not, almost every single one of them has a GDB rumor board that functions the same way.

More personal space: I've spent X years with X clan, but I still bunk up with fifteen other smelly people.  I've thought forever that people should have their own rooms, this would allow bosses the ability to do room inspections, me to randomly knock on the baobab door to see if X and y are fucking again and ruin it.  Etc etc.  while I understand this would take a bit of building, it wouldn't be rocket science.

Play a leader and create this structure in the clan. This is possible. If you are playing in a clan with its own estate land and you raise the money and the IC support and care enough about your people that you want to provide them with their own rooms and create that...you can. I can see a good staffer getting behind this in fact. I would if I were a staffer and you put in the IC work.

Those are just some of the problems with clans in my opinion at 4am, I'm sure tomorrow I'll think of some more.

[bcw81]

Clan leaders are always up to stuff and if you don't think so, it's because they find you too useless or annoying to include you.

I've had great experiences in the clans I've been in so far.  I really just wanted to post to say that even if you are 'useless' (as most of my characters are codedly) I still get included in the fun plots.  My florist Dasari even did something epic during one of those massive combat battles a while back.

If Tuluk was open longer, she would have gotten a statue for that.

[Synthesis]

My problem with clans is that I reeeeally hate sucking, and joining most clans is like the #1 guaranteed way for you to suck the most, for the longest period of time.

[valeria]

All the things I love about clans are the things you hate about clans. So to me, this looks like a play style compatibility problem, not a "clans are broken" problem.

[Armaddict]

I think most of these are not valid gripes, but maybe you're just suited to play indies more than clannies.  I, myself, only like certain clans, but most of them hold these restrictions and mentalities and I see no reason for them not to have them.

My only problem with clans is there are not enough of them.

[Malifaxis]

So don't play in clans.

kthx, bai.

I expected better from you...

*popcorn*

[Miradus]

My problem with clans is that I reeeeally hate sucking, and joining most clans is like the #1 guaranteed way for you to suck the most, for the longest period of time.

I, too, dislike sucking.

However there's a lot of OOC knowledge of the game I simply don't possess being a new player and my clanmates have been pretty good about imparting that knowledge in IC ways. Therein lies a lot of the value for me.

I try to play each character in such a way that I'm going to learn some aspect of the game well enough so that I will suck less in the future.

[BadSkeelz]

If you keep getting kicked out of /killed in clans for being a fuck-up, try not roleplaying a fuck-up.

[Rokal]

If you let yourself be pigeon-holed that's your own fault. There's plenty of freedom in whatever role you play, if you want to look for it.

This.

Clans are restrictive, sure, but if the clan is bustling and active, you can make your own fun, take intiative and do things with your clannies.

If the clan is in a slow period, with few members? Take intative and help your boss find more people. Make shit interesting.

My first experience in a clan is something im going to remember for a long time, and it was a blast.

Also, even if your in a clan, your RP doesnt need to revolve around said clan every minute your in the game.

I think this is a simply an issue of learning to make your own fun, and your own rp.

be proactive, not reactive. In my experience, leader characters love that.

[Molten Heart]

Dear Clans,

We've had some good times, with many fond memories but lately things have become lackluster. Please get better.
In the mean time, I'm enjoying myself without you, wish you were here to join the fun.

Best Regards,
An Indy

[Vwest]

I don't actually get what the point of this thread is.

It's a player expressing dissatisfaction with an certain aspect of the game, with a number of somewhat murky points being made in an effort to explain that dissatisfaction.

Then the thread devolved into some GDB OG's shitting all over the OP (MVP malifaxis).

I've played the sponsored warrior sergeant...trust me.  He got good armor starting out but his skills weren't even close to good.  It's embarrassing really, getting your ass kicked by runners with a few weeks in, lol.

We couldn't believe that pretty boy Tuluk kept surviving the odds on all those jobs.

It got to the point we were convinced he was the Lieutenants boy toy and we were keeping him alive to avoid her wrath.

Also, Molten Heart salvages the thread by reminding everyone that if you aren't playing an indy, you probably aren't having as much fun as you could be.

[Nergal]

I'm not going to allow clans vs. indies thread #∞ to continue. Different strokes for different folks. If you don't care to try out clans even after a long time since your last try, then you don't have an accurate perspective on clans, period.