Subguild/Guild Helpfiles - Feedback Requested

[RogueGunslinger]

That looks great. One thing that is probably just a nitpick.

I'd make

Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to the level of advanced.  They
can also reach the level of journeyman in sneak and climb.  

more like

Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to an advanced degree.  Though
can only become journeymen in sneak and climb.  

Or something similar. Just sounds a little less gamey imo.

[nauta]

Speaking of living at the edge of civilization!

  Outlaws live at the edge of civilisation...

Is this near the Grey Forest or the Gray Forest, or whichever colour it is??  (Ok, I'll stop now.  Great work!)

[Drayab]

Excellent.

[Lizzie]

Personally if you're going to "tell us the answer" with regards to proficiency, I'd rather that part of the text be colored out, and in list form. Keep the OOC code jargon completely isolated away from the "narrative" description of the guild itself.

[Case]

How is Red Storm lawless when it has a militia and laws

[RogueGunslinger]

It's more like the lawless go there.

[wizturbo]

How is Red Storm lawless when it has a militia and laws

The laws consist of:

No slaves....
No killing/stealing/magick in the streets where guards can see....

That's it.  Not even a fraction of the laws and organizational structures in Allanak or Tuluk, or even Luirs.

[Case]

How is Red Storm lawless when it has a militia and laws

The laws consist of:

No slaves....
No killing/stealing/magick in the streets where guards can see....

That's it.  Not even a fraction of the laws and organizational structures in Allanak or Tuluk, or even Luirs.

Not guards, militia, and lol, that is not a lawless place. Geez. Having a central authority of rules backed up by force is entirely organised.

[wizturbo]

Well, I think you can say of all the 'civilized' places in the known, Red Storm is the least 'lawful'?

[Case]

Well, I think you can say of all the 'civilized' places in the known, Red Storm is the least 'lawful'?

That'd go to Cenyr or some unknown tribal place or something like the Mul Outpost. I know it feels convenient to consider Red Storm as lawless anarchyville, but it's really not at all.

[CodeMaster]

Hi guys. I've gotten done re-writing all the 0 karma subguild help files and a few of the extended subguild ones. Here's an example of the format I've decided on, using the prevailing opinion here:

Code Select Expand


OUTLAW:

  Outlaws live at the edge of civilisation, operating out of
lawless settlements such as the Mul Outpost and Red
Storm.  These individuals are adept at sneaking their way
quietly across terrain to get the drop on their victims. 
Where the rugged landscape calls for it, Outlaws are also
able to climb to hard-to-reach areas.  Stormy weather is
no impediment to their travels either.  Outlaws are also
quite self-sufficient, being able to craft their own spears
and knives as well as patch up any damage to their armor.

  Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to the level of advanced.  They
can also reach the level of journeyman in sneak and climb. 


This and the rest of the changes will be going live once the subguild renovations are complete.

Awesome!

[valeria]

Please don't derail this thread.

[Ender]

That looks great. One thing that is probably just a nitpick.

I'd make

Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to the level of advanced.  They
can also reach the level of journeyman in sneak and climb.  

more like

Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to an advanced degree.  Though
can only become journeymen in sneak and climb.  

Or something similar. Just sounds a little less gamey imo.

I would disagree.  Awkwardly adding in the skill level words so that they sound like natural speech into a couple dozen helpfiles is going to be incredibly tedious for both the reader and the writer.  

The players of this game are cognitively aware that they are playing a game and that these helpfiles are meant to help them make decisions about their choices in how they play it, so I'm fine with it sounding 'gamey' because after all, it is a game.

[Riev]

Its a feedback thread. My assumption is that the tedious nature of updating things is moot at best. I think RGSs feedback just flows better, and reads better. "The level of" just feels clunky.

[Drayab]

The point of a helpfile is to convey information. I don't mind if it's clunky so long as it's clear, thus I prefer the original version.

[LauraMars]

Hi guys. I've gotten done re-writing all the 0 karma subguild help files and a few of the extended subguild ones. Here's an example of the format I've decided on, using the prevailing opinion here:

Code Select Expand


OUTLAW:

  Outlaws live at the edge of civilisation, operating out of
lawless settlements such as the Mul Outpost and Red
Storm.  These individuals are adept at sneaking their way
quietly across terrain to get the drop on their victims. 
Where the rugged landscape calls for it, Outlaws are also
able to climb to hard-to-reach areas.  Stormy weather is
no impediment to their travels either.  Outlaws are also
quite self-sufficient, being able to craft their own spears
and knives as well as patch up any damage to their armor.

  Outlaws can learn knife making, spear making, armor
repair and direction sense to the level of advanced.  They
can also reach the level of journeyman in sneak and climb. 


This and the rest of the changes will be going live once the subguild renovations are complete.

This is perfect. Absolutely perfect.

[LauraMars]

<snip> whoops.

SO PERFECT I HAVE TO POST IT TWICE

[solera]

I'm wondering what the "branching " language loks like...any different from now?

[nauta]

Just a quick thought on the branching aspect: I really like not knowing what branches what.  It forces you to round out your character's skillset, instead of just plugging away at one skill, and it's always a pleasant surprise to branch.  That said, I -do- want to know what skills my guild/subguild will eventually branch, mostly for the OOC purpose of character concept planning.

[whitt]

Just a quick thought on the branching aspect: I really like not knowing what branches what.  It forces you to round out your character's skillset, instead of just plugging away at one skill, and it's always a pleasant surprise to branch.  That said, I -do- want to know what skills my guild/subguild will eventually branch, mostly for the OOC purpose of character concept planning.

For me this is entirely frustrating.  I dislike the entire concept of branching because it requires mastery of the previous skill.  If the skills branched at Advanced instead of Master maybe? I don't want to have to pursue each of my starting skills to Master just to see if they branch that other skill I picked this class for.  I don't want to know that every Guild X with skill Z must have mastered skill Y already.  Furthermore, I may not even want my character to be good at Y, but I am "forced" to master it to get to skill "Z", then despite never using skill Y again, I will remain at mastery.  Not a fan.  Maybe if branched skills could be opened up via teaching prior to Mastery, that would suffice, but to need to wrap my head around, nope I can't Z until I've gotten better at Y, but you just wait.  One month after I've gotten really good at Y, I'll be the best Zer ever...

[Delirium]

I like the idea of branching happening at journeyman.

[nauta]

Huh.  I didn't know that branching only happened at master.  I assumed it was different for different skills/guilds, some branched whatever at journeyman or even apprentice others at master and so on.  I'd have to agree then that more variance here would be cool.  I do hate waiting on the branched skill if my concept has it as an essential feature.

Related to branching:

Sometimes the child skill follows intuitively from the parent, e.g., (just making this up since I don't know what branches what) fletchery from archery or bandagemaking from bandages or expel from contact/barrier or whatever).

But sometimes the child skill doesn't follow intuitively from any given skill in your skillset, e.g., blindfighting or listen.  In those cases, I kind of view the magic of having branched as a gestalt thing: I've now reached the level in my guild to have a new idea of something guild-like I can do.  It wasn't any one given skill, just kind of a holistic thing.

[BadSkeelz]

Another problem with continuing to hide branch points is that you only need to branch once to know. A vet who wants X skill is not going to round out Y and Z if he only needs to master Y.

Lack of information just leaves the advantage with veterans (or anyone willing to find out through OOC channels).

[MeTekillot]

Branching doesn't happen exclusively at master. Just most of the time.

[CodeMaster]

I like nauta's idea of different 'versions' of (e.g.) ranger with different starting skills and branch trees.  One version of ranger might start with all the hunting skills available, the other might start with all the melee skills available.