Skill Progression and Starting Levels

[Beethoven]

OK, sure, Inks, if my noble is the sort that wants to be tutored in lockpicking, then yeah, she should be gaining that skill. I meant to come up with an example in which the person is not using their coded skills and the guild isn't a representation of their "job." I'm sure you can think of some, like a barber that's actually guild_warrior, representing some unknown talent in fighting or having formerly dabbled. The barber is probably not undergoing active training.

Sure, they could probably find some excuse for their skills going up ("I've been sparring with my [vNPC] cousin!") but it does seem rather silly. If you're not using certain skills at all on-camera, you shouldn't be gaining them off-camera.

[Jingo]

Does anyone else look at a PC using an advanced weapon skill and immediately wonder what kind of twinky shit they get up to? If so, that's a problem.

pretty much the default

[Inks]

No bonus points awarded by Imms. That would be more arbitrary than the karma system often is.

[wizturbo]

No bonus points awarded by Imms. That would be more arbitrary than the karma system often is.

I've played MUDs that awarded accelerated skill boosts for good roleplay.  It was never often enough to really make a big difference, but it was effectively a kudos system, and it always made me feel happy when I got one.  Karma can be really, really slow to gain, and getting something tiny now and then could be fun....  As I said, it's a controversial subject.  I'd rather focus the discussion on the core of the system though, what do you think of that?

[Inks]

The first three bullet points would be fine and break and unbalance nothing, I would even go so far as make it 2 times a week. Who cares if it was used on magick? They are so fast to raise anyway.

[Dresan]

I think a skill boost system like that is a good incentive to keep people coming back and logging in at least once a week. Even if its just once a week they'll be able to stay connected to the game, and eventually they'll come back to play. Though I'm wondering if it should be changed to maybe an smaller skill bump a day if you log in an hour. Even if people log in to idle, thats still a chance for them to get engaged in some RP and stay longer or get addicted to the game again.

I rather not see imm based rewards, we already get enough tears after people recieving account notes. Rather not see another reason for people to think staff is trying to eat their brainz.

[Inks]

I agree with Dresan's above post unless he edits it.

[Alesan]

Having points awarded by staff creates more workload on staff. Plus it feels too much like karma. I don't like karma.

[Narf]

No bonus points awarded by Imms. That would be more arbitrary than the karma system often is.

I've played MUDs that awarded accelerated skill boosts for good roleplay.  It was never often enough to really make a big difference, but it was effectively a kudos system, and it always made me feel happy when I got one.  Karma can be really, really slow to gain, and getting something tiny now and then could be fun....  As I said, it's a controversial subject.  I'd rather focus the discussion on the core of the system though, what do you think of that?

Instead of having "effectively a kudos system" why not just implement a kudos system? Then no one will care about favortism.

[Dresan]

I agree with Dresan's above post unless he edits it.

I only edit for spelling and grammer....and snark at time

[wizturbo]

Okay, okay...  I'm taking off the staff awarded portion of the idea, because it's distracting away from the larger more important part of what I was trying to get out there.

I think the ideal system would be something like this:

On top of whatever you might learn ICly through normal play....

• Every Tuesday every character gets a "skill boost" that they can spend on a single skill to gain a 1% bump to it.
• Characters can only have one skill boost at a time, so if you don't login that week, you don't get your boost for that week.
• Boosts may only be used on skills your character currently has on their skill sheet.  There's a good argument for excluding magick/psionics from this so sekrit 'gicks have to risk being outed by practicing.

Bonus awesome ideas that could compliment this system, but are clearly more controversial:

• Being a member of certain IC organizations might get you a bonus boost.  For example, Tor Academy members, maybe you get a bonus +1 combat skill boost per week from the training they receive there.
• Maybe allow PC's to skill boost on ANY mundane skill, even ones they don't know... If you want to develop an aptitude for a mundane skill, you can!  It will just take a long time to get really good.  Of course, maybe there's a cap on how high these skills can go, etc...

Obviously something like this would be a major coding effort, not sure if our coders can do something like it...  But it'd be neat!

[Agent_137]

then you'll have players like me who don't have any time to play but pop in once a week for the bump, and a year later you have a really badass runner that nobody knows.

If combat skills are the problem and are so hard to raise compared to the rest, then just make them a little tiny bit easier and see how it goes. Experiment.

And for the record, adding the skill levels into the game caused me to obsess about them and track them. I don't like that and need to gag my skill command. I never understood what the benefit of adding the ranks was.

[Riev]

I had a thought before going to bed the other night:

What if the weapon/combat skills had a chance of improving just on use? Hear me out, because I know what you're thinking.

Nobody can get above Journeyman level in a weapon skill, without being in a defined military clan or one in which training occurs. (I'm aware this nerfs rangers)



Thought process: Not only would this bring about a change to making people WANT to be part of these "militarized" clans in combat roles, it would "take those indies down a peg". It would give a method in which to raise combat skills past this "hump" that causes everyone such grief, and only really screws over rangers/outdoorsy types, but really the "max without clan" would be about where people are at now.


I never understood how fighting [fast creature] for 2 RL months made you a better swordsman when fighting a trained gladiator.

[wizturbo]

The skill system for combat was never built to be realistic.  It was built to create a risk vs. reward scenario, for a hack and slash game.

Arm isn't a hack and slash game, but half it's systems are built around it.

[Lizzie]

I had a thought before going to bed the other night:

What if the weapon/combat skills had a chance of improving just on use? Hear me out, because I know what you're thinking.

Nobody can get above Journeyman level in a weapon skill, without being in a defined military clan or one in which training occurs. (I'm aware this nerfs rangers)



Thought process: Not only would this bring about a change to making people WANT to be part of these "militarized" clans in combat roles, it would "take those indies down a peg". It would give a method in which to raise combat skills past this "hump" that causes everyone such grief, and only really screws over rangers/outdoorsy types, but really the "max without clan" would be about where people are at now.


I never understood how fighting [fast creature] for 2 RL months made you a better swordsman when fighting a trained gladiator.

It makes you a better swordsman, period. If you fight critters all the time and never fight people, you will not be as good at fighting people as someone who trains against people. It's already built into the code. That is why I generally play rangers. Because I suck at the whole PK scene, and would prefer to only fight people in self-defense, yet still enjoy the whole concept of hunting/killing stuff.

[Jingo]

I had a thought before going to bed the other night:

What if the weapon/combat skills had a chance of improving just on use? Hear me out, because I know what you're thinking.

Nobody can get above Journeyman level in a weapon skill, without being in a defined military clan or one in which training occurs. (I'm aware this nerfs rangers)



Thought process: Not only would this bring about a change to making people WANT to be part of these "militarized" clans in combat roles, it would "take those indies down a peg". It would give a method in which to raise combat skills past this "hump" that causes everyone such grief, and only really screws over rangers/outdoorsy types, but really the "max without clan" would be about where people are at now.


I never understood how fighting [fast creature] for 2 RL months made you a better swordsman when fighting a trained gladiator.

It makes you a better swordsman, period. If you fight critters all the time and never fight people, you will not be as good at fighting people as someone who trains against people. It's already built into the code.

I know there are invisible modifiers that take into account stuff like this. I don't think the reward is comparable, though.

Generally the guy that can go out and hunt something anytime is going to have a better time than the guy that needs to find somebody to spar with. And that's without the dumb perks that fighting super agility creatures may or may not give.

[Rokal]

I had a thought before going to bed the other night:

What if the weapon/combat skills had a chance of improving just on use? Hear me out, because I know what you're thinking.

Nobody can get above Journeyman level in a weapon skill, without being in a defined military clan or one in which training occurs. (I'm aware this nerfs rangers)



Thought process: Not only would this bring about a change to making people WANT to be part of these "militarized" clans in combat roles, it would "take those indies down a peg". It would give a method in which to raise combat skills past this "hump" that causes everyone such grief, and only really screws over rangers/outdoorsy types, but really the "max without clan" would be about where people are at now.


I never understood how fighting [fast creature] for 2 RL months made you a better swordsman when fighting a trained gladiator.

I don't agree with the skill limit for indies Militarized clans and all sure, could have great skill. But indies can still put in the effort needed to become great warriors. Limiting them this possiblity is just .. silly.

I say maybe military clan members might have other benefits besides this.  It might be easier for one of the milltia to gain such ability ,but it shouldnt' be impossible for indies to reach master.

just my opinon.

[Old Kank]

I think combat skills progress at a perfectly reasonable rate, but it's hard to get opportunities to fail after a certain point.  At least, not without going out of your way.

Barring a major overhaul or code fixes, why not just correct training dummies?  Make them normal NPC's, clan them, and give all clan members the ability to order them to disengage.  Have them nosave combat if possible, and update their skills and stats to minimize the damage they do in order to mimic some of those scenarios that people seek out.

[Delirium]

Another solution I'm surprised no one had mentioned yet: allow skill gain on successes.

[Inks]

^


Also I mentioned it. High five for good ideas.

[Jihelu]

Another solution I'm surprised no one had mentioned yet: allow skill gain on successes.

Inb4 banned

[Nergal]

I've consolidated the ideas in this thread to post on the IDB, like I did for the player retention brainstorming thread. It's up for staff to discuss there now, too. Thanks for splitting off this discussion from the player retention thread because it has made it much easier to organize and potentially discuss further.

[Jihelu]

I sincerely doubt anything will change.

[Rathustra]

I sincerely doubt anything will change.

These jaded veterans keep getting younger and younger!

[Narf]

I sincerely doubt anything will change.

These jaded veterans keep getting younger and younger!

I'm teaching my 4 year old niece to say "back in my day everything was better"