A reasoned discussion of the current state of Armageddon vis-a-vis Olden Times

[Armaddict]

I wanted to edit it to say its in response to Armaddict's post that eluded to PC driven plots being difficult to get approved

While I appreciate your response, none of those things that you spoke of have anything to do with 'taking reins', i.e. taking control of the beast you ride on.  Little minor plots are still in place.  Little nuances are still in place.  Things with a small footprint are still in place.  Which is why my 'gripe' was not a very big one, as much as an idea to allow those small things to grow up into larger things, as they used to on a fairly consistent basis.  This was removed for reasons, and I'm making the call to re-examine those reasons.

I remember watching a noble-to-noble rivalry lately that was -so- enjoyable to watch.  But it couldn't really grow.  There weren't enough projects for them to interfere with.  There was not a big enough izdari board for their pieces to be used effectively against each other.  This is what I mean by 'taking the reins'.  I'm not saying vast world changing things, but I -am- talking about steering the direction of a clan you're leading rather than being an administrator for something static.  Even internally...if you read the Log about Haadith Oash's fall, he says something like 'This is the same thing as Palimus'.  What he's referring to was an internal clan plot where it was steered by Palimus into the assassination/execution of a senior noble, rather than following another plot, to shake up the ranking structure and make room for upward movement, i.e. to Warlord rank.  Which I promptly lost a couple weeks later, but it was still cool to -steer- the way the plot went, and change the House Organization.

Edited here to add:  I tend to ramble.  Sorry.  This is not a huge complaint of mine or anything, just kind of a way of saying that I think since changing that staff style, the idea of keeping things static and unchanging as far as clans, their interactions, their relationships, their goals, and so on, has drawn more and more towards static.  I don't know if the change in staffing method was the cause, or coincidence, which is why I prefaced it with 'no empirical data'.  My thoughts often wander on the game.  Your plots sound cool though!  I'd play in 'em!

Yeah but the opposite of circle jerking is blind cheerleading and it's annoying both ways.

I'm not sure if you were directing that at me personally or not.
If so:
   I would hardly call my 'cheerleading' blind.  I'm almost 32.  I've played since I was 15.  I have taken breaks.  I have argued.  I have been sworn at by staff.  I have abused staff.  I have been abused by staff.  I have been suspended.  I have been reprimanded, karma-docked, karma-gifted, resurrected, denied resurrections, empathized with, been empathized with...if you want to call 17 years of playing a game 'blind support', then you are only satisfying the requirement I had for some to be considered very amusing to me.  The call for revolution because of what are very small events is...ridiculous.  This game remains the greatest roleplaying experience on the net.  That is my opinion.  It is not a blind one.

If not:
  Ignore the above.  As said before, I think sometimes the parameters of enjoyment are either narrowed too far to where satisfaction is impossible (Why can't I make a character that dominates the entire game?  Why won't they support me and let me build a permanent castle at 5 days of play time with a few work logs?  Why won't they resurrect characters that died the same way as hundreds of characters before who did not get resurrected?), or to where the fact of the matter is that if -that- is what they enjoy about Armageddon, and it does not exist (and, frankly, sometimes -never- existed despite weak, uninformed explanation of why they think it used to happen)...why are they not looking for where that existed?  I will always consider someone saying 'I still enjoy the hell out of this game' far more tolerable than 'I don't like what they did to me and we should take over the game and make it the way I want it.'  And that is why it makes me laugh.
Edited -here- to add: Essentially...there is a constant mentality over there from most elements (there are some good thoughts as well from a minority) that support for Armageddon is always out of fear.  Instead of me -actually- still enjoying roleplay here.  It's a pervasive mentality there that makes a lot of their posts...hilarious to read.  They accuse people so easily of having blinders, where that is the exact symptom I'd give them, usually over an event that is, again...a minor occurrence.  The Rolling Stones - Can't Always Get What You Want would be incredibly helpful to them.  Heh.  TRY SOMETIMES.

[wizturbo]

Even internally...if you read the Log about Haadith Oash's fall, he says something like 'This is the same thing as Palimus'.  What he's referring to was an internal clan plot where it was steered by Palimus into the assassination/execution of a senior noble, rather than following another plot, to shake up the ranking structure and make room for upward movement, i.e. to Warlord rank.  Which I promptly lost a couple weeks later, but it was still cool to -steer- the way the plot went, and change the House Organization.

Things on this level (or greater, really) have happened within the last 6 months due to PC's choices.  I wish I could say more, but it's still ICly sensitive. 

[Armaddict]

Even internally...if you read the Log about Haadith Oash's fall, he says something like 'This is the same thing as Palimus'.  What he's referring to was an internal clan plot where it was steered by Palimus into the assassination/execution of a senior noble, rather than following another plot, to shake up the ranking structure and make room for upward movement, i.e. to Warlord rank.  Which I promptly lost a couple weeks later, but it was still cool to -steer- the way the plot went, and change the House Organization.

Things on this level (or greater, really) have happened within the last 6 months due to PC's choices.  I wish I could say more, but it's still ICly sensitive.

Well.  I honestly didn't mean for it to devolve into what it was so much as spew a random idea out to combat the idea of stagnation.  I -do- see a bit of a problem with the clan system as it's set up.  Closing Tuluk the first time made it the golden age of the north (in my opinion), but that can't really be reached here because there is no antagonist.  Previously, the north became a raiding, lawless, wild-west area...but the Arm was still there.  You could still play in it.  The Arm was fighting crime, the Rebellion, gith, etc...there were different clans interested in different fronts of that global conflict.  I can't say things -are- stagnating with any evidence, again...but I do fear it will, as I make characters and try to decide what I'd like to get involved in, and finding...fewer options.

[Inks]

Renaming this thread would help.

[FantasyWriter]

-Ray Stevens

[BadSkeelz]

Renaming this thread would help.

I propose the following title,

"No, feck YOU! A reasoned discussion of the current state of Armageddon vis-a-vis Olden Times"

[LauraMars]

"No, feck YOU! A reasoned discussion of the current state of Armageddon vis-a-vis Olden Times"

too long

[BadSkeelz]

"No, feck YOU!" is shorter.

[Jihelu]

I think my title idea is more fitting.

[Malken]

Nyr's title change made me go from raving and cane-waving madman to ponderous French philosopher and all around welcoming jovialiste.

[LauraMars]

that was me

rofl

I can change it back.

edit: Wait WAS IT ME??

[Malken]

that was me

rofl

I can change it back.

edit: Wait WAS IT ME??

Nah, I like it! It fits well with me currently smoking my Popeye candy pipe and sipping my red juice.

[LauraMars]

I actually don't remember changing the title, but I must have, because it has my name right on the edit. Am I also drinking red juice?

Maybe.

[Taijan]

I say, this environment feels much more welcoming now.

[Iiyola]

LOL! I see what you did there, Taijan.

[Old Kank]

There really does need to be an honest discussion over what keeps players interested in the game and what staff asks of those players.

I'll be honest.  After 20 years, Armageddon has gotten stale.  I still play now and then, but I'm mostly just chasing the dragon.  With that in mind, here are some thoughts:

The way I play is different now than it used to be.

I used to sit down to play Arm, and I would do JUST that.  I would have my telnet window up, and maybe a notepad or two with notes on my character.  Now, Arm is an ancillary part of my online experience.  Chances are, I have something playing on Netflix, possibly a game going on Steam, or an Excel spreadsheet up that I'm working on, and I have phone in front of me so that I can text my friends, or browse Facebook in my downtime.  And in a little corner of one monitor, I have MUSHclient up so I can half-heartedly follow things in game.

The simple fact is that Arm faces really, really steep competition for the attention of its players.

Characters behave differently now than they used to.

This is the one that really stymies me, I think.

People don't seem to congregate much anymore, and Jesus Christ, when they do they're so uptight with their interactions.  Today, I saw a noble and a templar out in the city for the first time in months, if not years.  Every now and then I'll hear of a GMH family member, but I can't remember the last time I saw one out in the city.  I log in, and I see 40+ players on, but I'm lucky if I can find three characters in publicly accessible areas.  It doesn't even really matter, anyway, because I'm not interested in hearing the same old polite bar conversation for the eight-thousandth time.

I have a hard time finding recruiters and joining clans lately.  If there's mystery and intrigue going on out there, I don't know how or where to find it, and I haven't even seen anything that makes me think I should go looking for it.  If I were a new player, I can't imagine the story aspect of the game hooking me.

Requirements seem to have changed.

I could be way off base with this one, but perception is reality, so... whatever.

The cost-benefit ratio for dealing with staff seems really, really, really, ridiculously high.  Affecting change on the world is too hard relative to all the other stuff I could be doing.  I'm just not that interested in pouring time and energy into something that can very easily be taken away by staff or players.  I'm not bitter or anything, that's just my honest reaction when I think about trying to achieve something in this game now.  "It's not worth the trouble."

This is getting into rose-tinted territory, but I remember a time when I emailed my clan staff and said, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if my character heard a rumor about some buried treasure out in that old cave?  I'll play it out and take the clan out there next Saturday."  And the response was:  "Cool!  We'll see if we can make something happen."  We took some shovels, went out to the cave, fought some bad dudes, found some buried treasure, and a good time was had by all.  I don't feel like I could do that now, and I haven't in a long time.

Some off-the-cuff suggestions.

- Make it easier to find players.  Publish clan numbers and playtimes, so us off-peakers can congregate. 

- Add RPT's to the weekly announcement after they're over, and give a shout-out to the responsible players/clans/staff, so players can see where the fun stuff is happening.

- Maybe categorize RPTs so players can differentiate between bread and circus RPTs from war and fighting RPTs.  Social RPT, action RPT, magic RPT, whatever.

- I might consider paying for a mobile app that would allow my character to send and receive psionic messages via my phone, while not logged on.

- If staff attitudes have changed toward helping players and barriers to entry, make that shit known.  Like, seriously.  Let's talk about specific examples, ala wizturbo.

- Give tangible rewards to players for putting in the time and effort in doing shit.  Come up with a reward system like karma, but separate.  Let's call them RP points (RPP).  5 RPP gets you a skill bump.  10 RPP gets you a free special app per calendar year.  100 RPP gets your CGP limit raised.  You get the idea.

[dhorw]

Hey!

As a quite new player i must say playing as a northener is just boring.
After 18 hours in-game i met ONE player ONCE. That's amazing.
I can't even buy cures and i can't rent room in apartment, and there's much more things which i can't do.

p.s. i'm not fan of joining clans.

[Majikal]

Hey!

As a quite new player i must say playing as a northener is just boring.
After 18 hours in-game i met ONE player ONCE. That's amazing.
I can't even buy cures and i can't rent room in apartment, and there's much more things which i can't do.

p.s. i'm not fan of joining clans.

Sorry to hear that man, unfortunately with the closure of Tuluk there's really NOT a whole lot of steady interaction in the north. People tend to congregate around the places that have the things like apartments and clans etc. If you want less boring, Nak is where it's at. Storm and Luir's have varying degrees of activity than can feel hit and miss at times. But in Allanak, the spans of silence tend to be relatively small. While the option to play a tuluki was left open as a rp option, it's closure has made playing a diehard northern tuluki pretty much impossible. You have no city for shelter, you have no soldiers to keep you safe, you have no nobles to support work or clans to join, you have no templars to keep the big bad stuff away etc etc (obviously these things still exist, it's just not an active piece of the world managed by staff and players anymore).

[Malken]

Yeah but the opposite of circle jerking is blind cheerleading and it's annoying both ways.

I'm not sure if you were directing that at me personally or not.

Hey Armaddict, just read that and no, it wasn't directed at all to you, it was more of a general comment My apologies if you thought I was targeting you.

Hey!

As a quite new player i must say playing as a northener is just boring.
After 18 hours in-game i met ONE player ONCE. That's amazing.
I can't even buy cures and i can't rent room in apartment, and there's much more things which i can't do.

p.s. i'm not fan of joining clans.

Out of curiosity, you mention that you are playing as a northerner.. Where exactly are you playing? I thought that there would be a lot of people to bump into in the Gaj, but I'm a little confused as to how a newbie would end up playing in the north!

[dhorw]

Out of curiosity, you mention that you are playing as a northerner.. Where exactly are you playing? I thought that there would be a lot of people to bump into in the Gaj, but I'm a little confused as to how a newbie would end up playing in the north!

I've just pointed tuluk.

[Malken]

Out of curiosity, you mention that you are playing as a northerner.. Where exactly are you playing? I thought that there would be a lot of people to bump into in the Gaj, but I'm a little confused as to how a newbie would end up playing in the north!

I've just pointed tuluk.

Huh. I haven't played in a while but I'm curious to know why people are still allowed to point to Tuluk without some big warnings that they won't find many people to play with.

The majority of the playerbase is concentrated in Allanak (the south) these days.

[Majikal]

Huh. I haven't played in a while but I'm curious to know why people are still allowed to point to Tuluk without some big warnings that they won't find many people to play with.

Cause three weeks from now it might be bumpin and jumpin and whatever. No way to know.

As to big warnings or at least a descent hint...

Upon login:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- A R M A G E D D O N   M O T D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  April 27th, 2015
  *   Tuluk is now closed to play.  If you log in to a Tuluki room you will
      automatically be moved to a nearby outpost.

  April 13th, 2015
  *   Tuluk will no longer be available for play starting April, 27th 2015.
      Characters can still be from Tuluk but they will not be able to play in
       Tuluk.

[Nyr]

First PC cannot point to Tuluk, but they can be from it.  After that, it's the same as pointing anywhere, really...

If you don't point to Allanak, your chances of interaction are slimmer.  That could be made more clear.

[nessalin]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, diam ante at montes donec posuere suspendisse. Consectetuer pharetra ac malesuada habitant non viverra, tempor tell....

Greatly appreciate the examples of how players mud today vs in the past.  An oft overlooked factor in the mudding experience.  Generally all focus put on the game.

[Delirium]

Every single thing Old Kank said.