Climb

[RogueGunslinger]

Climb is meh. It's a risk all the way up until it's mastered, and lots of classes and subguilds don't get to master it.

My suggestion: Make climb highly dependent on items in your hands. Possibly add a ladder skill.

Got weapons in your hands? Heavy detriment to climbing up. Only master climbers can do this without falling. Climbing down stuff with items in your hands still nets a small risk to master climbers.

Got a grappling hook in your hands? Even without the climb skill you have a moderate to high chance of climbing up, climbing down though will be hard still.


Then give rangers and burglars a skill to make a quick ladder/rope of some sort, So people without climb skill can follow you around.

[Delirium]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

[RogueGunslinger]

I really like those ideas too.

[Fujikoma]

As hilarious as neck falls are, they're kind of ridiculous. Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u. The visual of my clumsy assassin without climb branched trying to Jacki Chan his way up the wall away from a pair of hardened criminals and knocking himself out might be worthy of a cackle, but it's still a crappy way to end a story.

[Alesan]

I agree with all of this.

[Brytta Léofa]

Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u.

Maybe fleeing into a climb check should be automatically allowed if and only if your climb skill is decent.

[Delirium]

I think you should have to specify that direction when you flee or the code automatically excludes it as an option... UNLESS it is literally the only exit (like in a pit).

>flee

no climb rooms included, unless it's the only exit.

>flee u

Okay, you asked for it...

[Fujikoma]

Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u.

Maybe fleeing into a climb check should be automatically allowed if and only if your climb skill is decent.

I wholly agree, honestly. If your character can kickflip off a wall and scramble up the other to a balcony, then that's great, it'd make an awesome escape. If your PC knows they're not quite that skilled, and will likely bust their head, the option likely shouldn't even occur to them. My thoughts are, removing up as a valid random flee direction might be easier than manipulating the code to allow it if you have a decent chance of succeeding. I suppose you still COULD if the direction were removed as a valid random flee direction, and you type flee u. Then there's diving off the shield wall, which would likely be another concern, but I've not really observed any problems with that, doesn't mean they're not there.

[Harmless]

+1 to this thread. I don't think I landed on my neck once (ESPECIALLY from the ground ffs), and I did slip on a lot of rock-wall climbs, believe me. The imagery of that possibility is baffling and makes me lol

[Delirium]

It's ancient stock DIKU code for sure.

[Majikal]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

I'm totally dig all of this.

The you fall and land on your neck! Comes off stupid as hell. As it stands, I'm safer jumping off a 2room fall to get away from dangerous moster vs risking to climb one room away from an angry tregil without descent climb skill. I've been rekt by npc's more than once by fleeing and KOing myself in a room with more than a few exits that aren't Up. Taking up off the flee list completely would be nice, I think, but then again this would take away some of the beautiful benefit of having the flee skill and being good at it.

And from my experience, I have better luck climbing up a single room without the climb skill Vs climbing with descent agility and jman climbing.

[musashi]

Maybe have a city climb and an outdoors climb. Then let assassins and burglars excel at one and rangers the other.

[Alesan]

I've had a character fall on their neck at least twice, in the few characters I've played. It's enough that I don't really want to try to train climb at all. Part of me wonders if that's the point, but I'd rather not think so.

[Dresan]

And from my experience, I have better luck climbing up a single room without the climb skill Vs climbing with descent agility and jman climbing.

This is so true. A character of mine with no climb, stumbles into a hole, and latches on to the edge before he can fall. That SAME character comes back with master climb to the SAME hole. You slip and fall, you fail to..., you slip, you fail, you fall....boom, dead.

I couldn't believe it. I kinda just told myself it was just bad luck but damn, that was brutal.

[CodeMaster]

Random thought I had related to climb:

> watch down

(Scan is off, you can't watch anything else, you're vulnerable, but:

> e
Hang on friend, that room has a down exit in it that will eat you for lunch.


Just some added functionality to an already cool command.

[CodeMaster]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

Another "partial fail" I'd like to see related to the climb skill is if you

> look down

and you're an apprentice or novice climber, you might get "reeled" with a vertigo effect for a couple seconds.  Mostly cosmetic, and might not even go away unless you're a true master at climbing -- regardless of the number of climbing spikes you're wearing.

[Fujikoma]

l d
You look into the gaping maw of the cesspool and reel with vertigo.
You stumble and fall in.
Welcome to Armageddon!

[Barsook]

Awesome ideas.

[Delirium]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

Another "partial fail" I'd like to see related to the climb skill is if you

> look down

and you're an apprentice or novice climber, you might get "reeled" with a vertigo effect for a couple seconds.  Mostly cosmetic, and might not even go away unless you're a true master at climbing -- regardless of the number of climbing spikes you're wearing.

Eh, I think that's something that could be roleplayed or not. It's not really fair to force phobias on people.

Speaking personally, I have never been afraid of (and am in fact thrilled by) heights, while I have known people who are terrified of being three steps up on a ladder.

It's also not entirely realistic. As a climber you have to look down if you're climbing down. You'd get used to it, or you just wouldn't be a climber (and not have the climb skill).

That gives me a neat idea though - roleplaying not having the climb skill as an intense fear of heights.

[wizturbo]

Falling is really, really dangerous in real life.  Your chances of dying from a 20 foot fall are staggeringly high, and by 30 feet your chances of survival are slim.  In my opinion, it isn't the danger of falling that is out of place, it's the way the game handles that danger.

If I look down/up, I should get a sense of just how treacherous a climb is or is not...or if a climb is even required or not.  Sometimes down is a set of stairs, sometimes it's a sheer cliff, but only in some cases is this ever communicated in the room description or in the <look direction> description.  I can recall 2 cases of this not being clearly communicated recently, and given I was leading a group of people at the time, it definitely stopped me from taking actions I might've otherwise taken...such as going in to investigate. 

If I type flee, it should almost never mean I jump off a jagged cliff, or try to run up a sheer wall unless I'm a good climber.

If I walk into a room that doesn't a floor, I should almost always get a warning before that happens, or there should be a very good (90%+) chance I can avoid the fall assuming I can see, and control my character's muscles.

[Delirium]

Having to specifically type >climb or >jump when going in the direction of fall/climb rooms might help.

We'd have to look into the mechanisms of how that affects alternate movement in the game, though (such as those which mages employ).

[nauta]

If I look down/up, I should get a sense of just how treacherous a climb is or is not...or if a climb is even required or not.  Sometimes down is a set of stairs, sometimes it's a sheer cliff, but only in some cases is this ever communicated in the room description or in the <look direction> description.  I can recall 2 cases of this not being clearly communicated recently, and given I was leading a group of people at the time, it definitely stopped me from taking actions I might've otherwise taken...such as going in to investigate. 

I idea'd that before, so I think it's a great idea!  From what I understand, it sounds like the perfect project for a builder too - just modify (or create) verbose descriptions.  This won't solve a lot of problems listed above, but it

a) doesn't require code!

b) would at least solve one immersion-breaking problem I had with my climber PC, namely, that I totally -should- know what sort of climb this is (roughly), and assess the risks.  Instead, you have to either find out IC through just doing it (which is deadly) or ask around to others who have done it before (which is silly and immersion breaking).

[Erythil]

A stronger indication of what's climbable would be useful.

So many deaths due to it being unclear what's a drop...

[Inks]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

[Armaddict]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

No to assassins getting higher climb.  I'm sorry, but that's one of their tradeoffs, they don't get to be the best at everything over other rogues.  Just most things.