Climb

[RogueGunslinger]

Climb is meh. It's a risk all the way up until it's mastered, and lots of classes and subguilds don't get to master it.

My suggestion: Make climb highly dependent on items in your hands. Possibly add a ladder skill.

Got weapons in your hands? Heavy detriment to climbing up. Only master climbers can do this without falling. Climbing down stuff with items in your hands still nets a small risk to master climbers.

Got a grappling hook in your hands? Even without the climb skill you have a moderate to high chance of climbing up, climbing down though will be hard still.


Then give rangers and burglars a skill to make a quick ladder/rope of some sort, So people without climb skill can follow you around.

[Delirium]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

[RogueGunslinger]

I really like those ideas too.

[Fujikoma]

As hilarious as neck falls are, they're kind of ridiculous. Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u. The visual of my clumsy assassin without climb branched trying to Jacki Chan his way up the wall away from a pair of hardened criminals and knocking himself out might be worthy of a cackle, but it's still a crappy way to end a story.

[Alesan]

I agree with all of this.

[Brytta Léofa]

Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u.

Maybe fleeing into a climb check should be automatically allowed if and only if your climb skill is decent.

[Delirium]

I think you should have to specify that direction when you flee or the code automatically excludes it as an option... UNLESS it is literally the only exit (like in a pit).

>flee

no climb rooms included, unless it's the only exit.

>flee u

Okay, you asked for it...

[Fujikoma]

Also, I don't think fleeing up should be an option, unless you specifically type flee u.

Maybe fleeing into a climb check should be automatically allowed if and only if your climb skill is decent.

I wholly agree, honestly. If your character can kickflip off a wall and scramble up the other to a balcony, then that's great, it'd make an awesome escape. If your PC knows they're not quite that skilled, and will likely bust their head, the option likely shouldn't even occur to them. My thoughts are, removing up as a valid random flee direction might be easier than manipulating the code to allow it if you have a decent chance of succeeding. I suppose you still COULD if the direction were removed as a valid random flee direction, and you type flee u. Then there's diving off the shield wall, which would likely be another concern, but I've not really observed any problems with that, doesn't mean they're not there.

[Harmless]

+1 to this thread. I don't think I landed on my neck once (ESPECIALLY from the ground ffs), and I did slip on a lot of rock-wall climbs, believe me. The imagery of that possibility is baffling and makes me lol

[Delirium]

It's ancient stock DIKU code for sure.

[Majikal]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

I'm totally dig all of this.

The you fall and land on your neck! Comes off stupid as hell. As it stands, I'm safer jumping off a 2room fall to get away from dangerous moster vs risking to climb one room away from an angry tregil without descent climb skill. I've been rekt by npc's more than once by fleeing and KOing myself in a room with more than a few exits that aren't Up. Taking up off the flee list completely would be nice, I think, but then again this would take away some of the beautiful benefit of having the flee skill and being good at it.

And from my experience, I have better luck climbing up a single room without the climb skill Vs climbing with descent agility and jman climbing.

[musashi]

Maybe have a city climb and an outdoors climb. Then let assassins and burglars excel at one and rangers the other.

[Alesan]

I've had a character fall on their neck at least twice, in the few characters I've played. It's enough that I don't really want to try to train climb at all. Part of me wonders if that's the point, but I'd rather not think so.

[Dresan]

And from my experience, I have better luck climbing up a single room without the climb skill Vs climbing with descent agility and jman climbing.

This is so true. A character of mine with no climb, stumbles into a hole, and latches on to the edge before he can fall. That SAME character comes back with master climb to the SAME hole. You slip and fall, you fail to..., you slip, you fail, you fall....boom, dead.

I couldn't believe it. I kinda just told myself it was just bad luck but damn, that was brutal.

[CodeMaster]

Random thought I had related to climb:

> watch down

(Scan is off, you can't watch anything else, you're vulnerable, but:

> e
Hang on friend, that room has a down exit in it that will eat you for lunch.


Just some added functionality to an already cool command.

[CodeMaster]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

Another "partial fail" I'd like to see related to the climb skill is if you

> look down

and you're an apprentice or novice climber, you might get "reeled" with a vertigo effect for a couple seconds.  Mostly cosmetic, and might not even go away unless you're a true master at climbing -- regardless of the number of climbing spikes you're wearing.

[Fujikoma]

l d
You look into the gaping maw of the cesspool and reel with vertigo.
You stumble and fall in.
Welcome to Armageddon!

[Barsook]

Awesome ideas.

[Delirium]

I would rather you just not get knocked auto-unconscious on a crit-fail (though you may still if the fall is very long) and have a wider range of fail results.

"You start to slip, but manage to catch yourself." tiny stamina and hp drain
"You can't find a handhold and are forced to backtrack." - small stamina drain

A crit-fail would be that you slip and fall like a regular fail is now. A fail would be stuff like the above.

Another "partial fail" I'd like to see related to the climb skill is if you

> look down

and you're an apprentice or novice climber, you might get "reeled" with a vertigo effect for a couple seconds.  Mostly cosmetic, and might not even go away unless you're a true master at climbing -- regardless of the number of climbing spikes you're wearing.

Eh, I think that's something that could be roleplayed or not. It's not really fair to force phobias on people.

Speaking personally, I have never been afraid of (and am in fact thrilled by) heights, while I have known people who are terrified of being three steps up on a ladder.

It's also not entirely realistic. As a climber you have to look down if you're climbing down. You'd get used to it, or you just wouldn't be a climber (and not have the climb skill).

That gives me a neat idea though - roleplaying not having the climb skill as an intense fear of heights.

[wizturbo]

Falling is really, really dangerous in real life.  Your chances of dying from a 20 foot fall are staggeringly high, and by 30 feet your chances of survival are slim.  In my opinion, it isn't the danger of falling that is out of place, it's the way the game handles that danger.

If I look down/up, I should get a sense of just how treacherous a climb is or is not...or if a climb is even required or not.  Sometimes down is a set of stairs, sometimes it's a sheer cliff, but only in some cases is this ever communicated in the room description or in the <look direction> description.  I can recall 2 cases of this not being clearly communicated recently, and given I was leading a group of people at the time, it definitely stopped me from taking actions I might've otherwise taken...such as going in to investigate. 

If I type flee, it should almost never mean I jump off a jagged cliff, or try to run up a sheer wall unless I'm a good climber.

If I walk into a room that doesn't a floor, I should almost always get a warning before that happens, or there should be a very good (90%+) chance I can avoid the fall assuming I can see, and control my character's muscles.

[Delirium]

Having to specifically type >climb or >jump when going in the direction of fall/climb rooms might help.

We'd have to look into the mechanisms of how that affects alternate movement in the game, though (such as those which mages employ).

[nauta]

If I look down/up, I should get a sense of just how treacherous a climb is or is not...or if a climb is even required or not.  Sometimes down is a set of stairs, sometimes it's a sheer cliff, but only in some cases is this ever communicated in the room description or in the <look direction> description.  I can recall 2 cases of this not being clearly communicated recently, and given I was leading a group of people at the time, it definitely stopped me from taking actions I might've otherwise taken...such as going in to investigate. 

I idea'd that before, so I think it's a great idea!  From what I understand, it sounds like the perfect project for a builder too - just modify (or create) verbose descriptions.  This won't solve a lot of problems listed above, but it

a) doesn't require code!

b) would at least solve one immersion-breaking problem I had with my climber PC, namely, that I totally -should- know what sort of climb this is (roughly), and assess the risks.  Instead, you have to either find out IC through just doing it (which is deadly) or ask around to others who have done it before (which is silly and immersion breaking).

[Erythil]

A stronger indication of what's climbable would be useful.

So many deaths due to it being unclear what's a drop...

[Inks]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

[Armaddict]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

No to assassins getting higher climb.  I'm sorry, but that's one of their tradeoffs, they don't get to be the best at everything over other rogues.  Just most things.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I fell several times without Ko in the past few days.  No one was around to see it...so it doesnt matter.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I find it hilarious that people who've seen a sinkhole or cliff before still have to leap off it like idiots if they want to try to climb down.

[Majikal]

A stronger indication of what's climbable would be useful.

So many deaths due to it being unclear what's a drop...

This would be nice.

We were on a mission once in Tuluk and needed to find a way down off a cliff. Something like 14 pc's riding around and we needed to see how large the drop was before we committed anyone to it. Super climber testerboy 9000 goes to take a peek for us. Turns out the room that so terrified us all as a climbfall room turned out to be a safe walk. It then let you look down. Safely. I wish ALL cliffs were done this way. Let the sinkholes and chasms be a surprise tumble to get the unwary. But a cliff, you should be able to 'safely' peek off a cliff in this manner.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

No to assassins getting higher climb.  I'm sorry, but that's one of their tradeoffs, they don't get to be the best at everything over other rogues.  Just most things.

*edited other dumb stuff out.

I don't find journeyman-advanced climb skill to be very adequate, basically. I might agree that not all the stealth classes should get climb, but I say if they do get it, just let it master.

[Armaddict]

I don't mind the climb code. But assassins should have a higher cap jesus.

Also there should be more subguilds with climb. Even a couple more extended subguilds.

No to assassins getting higher climb.  I'm sorry, but that's one of their tradeoffs, they don't get to be the best at everything over other rogues.  Just most things.

*edited other dumb stuff out.

I don't find journeyman-advanced climb skill to be very adequate, basically. I might agree that not all the stealth classes should get climb, but I say if they do get it, just let it master.

Generally, the way I think of it is that assassins are capable of climbing -up- things.  Climbing down...is not their thing.

[RogueGunslinger]

But then how do I live out my building top ninja-assassin fantasies.


Game needs functional grappling hooks.

[BadSkeelz]

Game needs functional grappling hooks.

Typical result of climbing equipment without climbing skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMu4WF6DMEE

[AdamBlue]

If you Way too much while climbing and pass out, you're supposed to fall, right?

[nauta]

If you Way too much while climbing and pass out, you're supposed to fall, right?

There's another bug with climb that I filed: if you are hidden, and fall and crack your neck, you remain hidden.  (Or: you are just -that- good.)

[CodeMaster]

If you Way too much while climbing and pass out, you're supposed to fall, right?

There's another bug with climb that I filed: if you are hidden, and fall and crack your neck, you remain hidden.  (Or: you are just -that- good.)

And you won't fall.   #thanksmagickers

[Armaddict]

If you Way too much while climbing and pass out, you're supposed to fall, right?

There's another bug with climb that I filed: if you are hidden, and fall and crack your neck, you remain hidden.  (Or: you are just -that- good.)

Same thing happens with any passing out.  If you're hidden when you do it, you remain hidden.

[Delirium]

If you Way too much while climbing and pass out, you're supposed to fall, right?

There's another bug with climb that I filed: if you are hidden, and fall and crack your neck, you remain hidden.  (Or: you are just -that- good.)

Same thing happens with any passing out.  If you're hidden when you do it, you remain hidden.

In most cases, that makes sense.

Clinging to a cliffside though... not so much.

[Majikal]

Some weird climb quirks:
Can shoot a bow while climbing
can throw a spear while climbing
can fight while climbing
can't cast while climbing?

Would be neat to have a climb check for doing any of those things, initiate fall if you fail. That'd be tight.
You steady yourself and take aim.
You loose your footing!

I think any kind of climbing overhaul would be awesome, it's so bare bones right now that anything added to how it works would kick ass.

[LauraMars]

Some weird climb quirks:
Can shoot a bow while climbing
can throw a spear while climbing
can fight while climbing
can't cast while climbing?

Can pass out from way use while climbing and not fall down.

[Inks]

Thanks for those climbing quirks, Majikal. I learnt a lot and will use this knowledge in the future.

Here is one that needs to be fixed: If you fall on your neck and get knocked out while climbing hidden. You will still be hidden while unconscious on the ground.

Same goes if you sap someone hidden and they get ko'd in one, will still be hidden. Unconscious state should reveal hidden pcs/npcs.

[BadSkeelz]

Climbing and waying/fighting is the Zalanthan equivalent to texting and driving.

[Majikal]

Climbing and waying/fighting is the Zalanthan equivalent to texting and driving.

Your mum sends you a telepathic message:
"You better not be waying and riding again!"

You send your mum a telepathic message:
"No mom, sheeesh, we parked the beetles. I'm out with the guys. One of them's a bender and he always laughs when you do this. It's embarassing."

[nessalin]

Is there a situation where this would not fall into the same category of activities that break crafting/casting/etc.., "Your concentration falters..." ?

[nauta]

Is there a situation where this would not fall into the same category of activities that break crafting/casting/etc.., "Your concentration falters..." ?

Only one I can think of really quickly is that sometimes you are clinging to a cliff without enough energy to go up, and the fall will likely kill you, and you want to Way your fairwells (or help ways).  So Waying would be one that maybe you can still do while climbing (at your own risk, since it lowers stun).

[nessalin]

2015.10.11 release addresses some of these concerns.

[Old Kank]

I noticed a few days ago that failing to stop a fall penalizes you just like hitting the ground.  This means that if you fall one room, you get hit one time.  If you fall one room but try (and fail) to stop the fall, you get hit twice.

I don't know if that's intentional or not, but it seems kinda shitty to double penalize people like that.

[Narf]

I noticed a few days ago that failing to stop a fall penalizes you just like hitting the ground.  This means that if you fall one room, you get hit one time.  If you fall one room but try (and fail) to stop the fall, you get hit twice.

I don't know if that's intentional or not, but it seems kinda shitty to double penalize people like that.

It actually makes sense from a game balance viewpoint. Particularly since I believe the only limit to the number of tries to catch yourself you can make is how fast you can hit "u" during the fall delay.

[solera]

I noticed I got the message about not following into the danger zone, out off the blue. I assume it  was triggered by the last person my PC had followed, going rock climbing.

[Saellyn]

You take significantly less damage attempting to stop a fall, but no, it is not an instant check. There's delay trying to stop yourself falling, so it's a super duper risk-reward. You MAY stop the fall, or you may guarantee your demise.