Some Recent Thoughts Of Mine About Mages

[bardlyone]

It's kind of a dick move if you spend all your time totally alone and grinding to mastery. And I've never seen someone who did this that played a mage like a person, with complex, layered personalities. And probably 4 of roughly 7 years playing this game has been spent playing mages who spent time primarily around other mages. I've also had the ability to know exactly what is internal and hidden in more than 200 mages played by others. I have some level of insight on this. It's not meant to be a judgement because different people have different playstyles, and play what they like, how they like to play it. I guess what I'm saying is: Yes, you can grind your mage up very quickly if you sit alone all the time and do nothing but cast. If you spend time being a person and sometimes go 2-3 IC days of login time at a time without ever casting because you are doing other shit, there is no way in hell you will branch fully within the time frame you are talking about. Even with AI wisdom. Again, I've seen the play, I know personally. While you can advocate for shifting a mage closer to what a mundane is as progression goes, you probably don't realize that it WAS that way, and mages were so weak and pked so much and so often right at the start, that they were ruled as nearly unplayable and the number was reflected in guild choices, and agreed on by Halaster, who's the one who's responsible for the changes made. They start with their very first magicks at 2-3x the levels a mundane does, but after that, you start out at roughly the same place as a mundane, and it's on you how quickly or slowly you go as a result. And frankly, the templar expectation is in place because people often enough play to it that it's reinforced itself into an expectation. It's also possibly worthy of a complaint, considering the fact that this "widely known knowledge" is very metagame. A templar is not an elementalist, and while they may come to know their abilities, only pcs are guaranteed to be able to access all those spells. Many npcs with magick reflect the part in the documentation about only knowing a little, so expecting pcs to learn them is not only not an accurate representation of the game world it is also very meta. Magick is supposed to be mysterious, and there are aspects of it that the code can't or doesn't reflect. The elements are capricious, and when you get into high magick animations, that's often reflected.

[Eyeball]

Wrong. The real difference is hat you already mentioned. Their skills require less ... actually ... there skills require no environmental conditions in order to train. Fail for fail, spells skill up about the same as any other skill sans the weapon groups. But the fact that you can train them anytime anywhere without the need for any conditions to do so is an enormous difference.

So what about half-giants? Where is all the bitching about those? They don't even need to train at all, just subdue, then murder.

How about templars? Why don't we hear crying about how all they need is the 'order' command from day one?

[CodeMaster]

I don't think musashi suggests that mages necessarily be "harder" to grind up.  Maybe he would be happy if they were twice as easy to grind up, but required actually 'using' the skills (on a living, evasive target, or whatever) to get the required experience with them.

[Jingo]

I'm in favor of the make mundanes easier to grind up. Seriously guys. Get a job.

[bardlyone]

I'm in favor of the make mundanes easier to grind up. Seriously guys. Get a job.

I'm in favor of this as well. People favor easier progression, and it's better for casual players. Not to mention, it would cut down on turnover of squishy new characters, allowing longer and more intricate stories to unfold.

[musashi]

I don't think musashi suggests that mages necessarily be "harder" to grind up.  Maybe he would be happy if they were twice as easy to grind up, but required actually 'using' the skills (on a living, evasive target, or whatever) to get the required experience with them.

Thank you. Yes, my point is not about how much time is takes to grind a mage up. It's about what you're doing while you're doing it.

[Lizzie]

I don't think musashi suggests that mages necessarily be "harder" to grind up.  Maybe he would be happy if they were twice as easy to grind up, but required actually 'using' the skills (on a living, evasive target, or whatever) to get the required experience with them.

Thank you. Yes, my point is not about how much time is takes to grind a mage up. It's about what you're doing while you're doing it.

If you want to live to tell about it, you're not doing much.

Once you're already up, it's easy to go hunting. But until a certain point - you will be only as good a killer of things and defender of yourself, as a warrior fresh out of chargen trying to ride a mount with a weapon and shield in each hand. In other words - he ain't budging til he puts both weapon and shield down, thus leaving him SUPER vulnerable. Imagine a warrior who could do horrific damage to a mekillot in a single shot - but he can't wield his weapon and attack at the same time.

A mage who doesn't have powerful attack skills from the get-go, at a high enough power level to do actual damage, is like that warrior. And then - when you're still new - how many times can you cast any given spell before you run out of mana? Remember -  this is on a new character, not one who's had a chance to max up the 6 starting spells.

A new character fresh out of chargen *cannot* survive by casting only at the "active" version of his spells, by casting them on critters, unless he is someone whose player knows the code and is prepared to "cast-spam-flee-runrunrun rest stand east cast spam-flee run run run rest stand east cast spem-flee" over and over ad nauseum. Sort of like how some assassins practice backstab. From what I've heard, that's not held in the highest regard by either staff nor players. So no, I wouldn't want to encourage that by restricting anything that mages do now.

I'd rather see more oversight and general guidance from the staff - a staffer who has, perhaps, a temple senior NPC for mages in the gemmed quarter, and a tribal somethingorother shaman for non-city mages. Who would "randomly" show up and express an opinion on the methodology, in an IC way.

"You're trying too hard, padawan. Slow down, breathe. There is no try. There is only do. If you don't do, take a day off. Do the next day instead."
"Stuck again on that one I see? Here's 20 sids. Get an ale at the bar. Relax for the day. Tomorrow night go back to the temple and focus more energy into the shadows.  Channel more than you have been, but not too much more."
"Aha, I see you've been working on propelling a magic missile! Great choice, one of my favorites. Took a year to figure it out. Here's a tip: the missile is fueled by fire, not water. You're a vivaduan. Your power comes from water - but the missile's power does not. You need both, for this weave."

I agree with the templars - and others - trying to push their players' OOC knowledge of the spell lists in game being jarring. Very jarring. I recall playing a krathi, and someone of a completely different element decided that I needed help skilling up, so they started telling me how, in game. They changed a few words around  - "weave" instead of "spell" and "horn" instead of "power" but otherwise it was nearly word for word from the help file. I don't remember if I put in a player complaint on that but every single time that person tried to "teach" my character how to be a krathi, I cringed, and mostly just avoided RPing with him entirely. Pro-tip: a vivaduan who hasn't even branched all his 2nd-level spells yet, shouldn't be knowledgeable enough about magick to be teaching spell combinations to a krathi who has maxed out everything except 2 spells.

And - if I'm going slow, and not expressing frustration due to ignorance of the element, then maybe I'm going slow because my *character* is slow-going. Maybe I, the player, am NOT trying to rush.  Maybe I'm trying to RP things in a more believable way, and intentionally avoiding the grind.  Personally, I'd rather have a random chance of branching even if I haven't achieved "branchable status" yet. It'd take a whole lot away from the grind frustration.

In addition - I've noticed a whole lot of people who - the second they branch - just automatically know that they've branched, and know why, and know what the new spell is, how it works, how to cast it, what components are needed for it, the conditions needed to cast it, whether or not it's crim-safe, etc. etc. How does your character know all this? I mean okay - some characters grew up in the temple, or their mother was a krathi just like they are and taught them everything they know and they studied for years before they ever manifested. But it's like - there's no guesswork at all. You want to slow down the grind, those of you who know everything and can branch in an hour? Then roleplay needing some guesswork. Roleplay NOT knowing that yuqa follows wek. Just because you, the player, see it on your spell list when you type "skills" doesn't mean your character knows it. How much of your skills your character knows about, is up to you.

You want to slow it down, then slow it down. Don't impose a forced slow-down on the rest of us who DON'T know all of this, just because you know so much and can branch faster than the rest of us.

[Fujikoma]

I didn't even read your whole post, Lizzie, it sounds like you were RPing a newb, and got the newb treatment. If you don't like it, stop RPing a newb, or maybe try a breed or sharp, nobody likes those. If you want ignorance, it's easily obtained, in fact, I'd wager it's quite firmly in your grasp right now.

... that said, after reading your entire post, I agree. Don't raise the bar unexpectedly on newbie magickers.

[musashi]

If you spend time being a person and sometimes go 2-3 IC days of login time at a time without ever casting because you are doing other shit, there is no way in hell you will branch fully within the time frame you are talking about. Even with AI wisdom. Again, I've seen the play, I know personally.

Yes ... if you routinely go for multiple IC days of login time without ever training a single skill you will not branch quickly. I personally know this as well.

Most of us however, be us mage or mundane, use our skills every IG day that we happen to be playing. Most clans you join have this built into the schedule they expect you to follow. You are describing something outside the bell curve of typical play.

[Dresan]

I'm in favor of the make mundanes easier to grind up. Seriously guys. Get a job.

I'm in favor of this as well. People favor easier progression, and it's better for casual players. Not to mention, it would cut down on turnover of squishy new characters, allowing longer and more intricate stories to unfold.

Not to mention motivate people to take more risks and suffer more consequences, making the overall game more interesting. Instead of people feeling the need to playing cautious because they don't want to risk losing their characters, and time investments.  

[ibusoe]

About this "you must be super twinking if your mage is advancing quickly" line of thought.

If you go look at past magick threads on the GDB you will see people lamenting that when they try to slow down their mage's rate of growth deliberately as a gemmed mage, templars and fellow gemmed get upset with them for not having all their spells yet. This is because the general mindset is that mages branch quickly.

To fully branch a spell tree inside of a couple of RL months ... take 10 minutes out of every time you log in to practice casting your spells at nil.

That's all you need to do. There is no secret method of twinkery, it's just easy. And that involves less time spent training that a typical clan with a training schedule so it more than meets the criteria for realistic play.

Granted lots of people feel like: Well ... ... come on man ... I like that it's super easy ...

That's cool. That's a totally legit opinion to have. But I think we all know better than to posit that the quick pace of development for mages is due to twinkery.

To have the act of mastering your magick be its own reward with challenges and opportunity for interaction along the way, like mundanes have it, instead of just something you do alone in an empty room for a couple months until you're maxed and ready to go interact with the game world.  

Did it. He never stepped into a city either.

Play a character with an unreasonable spice addiction.  & etc.  You will find that you are limited only by your imagination.

Did it ... I also had a mage who refused to eat and kept himself so starved he only had about 20 or 30 max HP at any given time for about an IG year.

But I think that's all beside the point, because as I said above, quick mage development is not limited to me. Powering up quickly is a vanilla common experience among people who play mages.

I don't posit that people who are selling spell components at the moment are twinking. I think they're just using what they have available to make money. If it were corrected, I don't posit that they would start twinking either. I don't think the majority of mage players are twinks. I imagine that people would gradually select more crafting subguilds if making money was key to their concept ... and if it wasn't they would make poorer characters and live in the gemmed quarter where they already have discount housing available to them -- or live off the land or out of Red Storm the way the ungemmed already do.
[/quote]

You make some very compelling counterpoints. 

I think there are several problems here none of which you will be very happy to hear.

For starters, you're far too cool for us.  Were you really able to achieve all of those things in game?  If so, you have a level of awesomeness that most of the rest of us will only fail to keep up with.  If you want to be fully engaged, other than in the roleplay sense of things, you're going to need to find a bigger pond with bigger fish.  We just can't keep up with you, and it's nobodies fault. 

You mentioned that you want to play a mage that faces actual challenges?  That's not really what Armageddon does.  Armageddon is not a puzzle game, is not a quest game, is not in the conventional sense an adventure game.  It's a combat simulator stapled to a PvP simulator stapled to a competitive commerce simulator stapled to a statecraft simulator.  It sounds like what you want to is closer to playing the Legend of Zelda, only you want to play a mage instead of an elf and you want to bring along two or three other people.  Which is a very cool thing to want, except that Armageddon can't currently support that.

Sometimes I feel that the game is on the verge of evolving into what you want it to be, and there are exciting possibilities now that we're approaching a critical mass of experienced players and that the staff intellectual capitol is improving. 

Neither of the things I've brought up though, are the heart of the issue, because what you're presenting as supporting points are really a series of gripes, and your series of gripes don't support what you're politely representing as a thesis.  I don't think you have a thesis.  I think you have angst, or maybe malaise. 

You're bored, dude.  Bored with mages.  You want to like mages, because there's something about them that expresses you.  They suit your aesthetic.  But you need a break.  If you need to play a mage, and you need to play that mage in Armageddon, and you want to be *challenged* in the way that you're suggesting, maybe play a mage who's a leadership character?  Then organize some HRPT.  Then people will engage you, preferably in the way that you're asking them to. 

[musashi]

 

It's almost always ill advised to tell people what they think.

[Narf]

Neither of the things I've brought up though, are the heart of the issue, because what you're presenting as supporting points are really a series of gripes, and your series of gripes don't support what you're politely representing as a thesis.  I don't think you have a thesis.  I think you have angst, or maybe malaise.  

You're bored, dude.  Bored with mages.  You want to like mages, because there's something about them that expresses you.  They suit your aesthetic.  But you need a break.  If you need to play a mage, and you need to play that mage in Armageddon, and you want to be *challenged* in the way that you're suggesting, maybe play a mage who's a leadership character?  Then organize some HRPT.  Then people will engage you, preferably in the way that you're asking them to.  

What he's saying is actually really straightforward and has almost nothing to do with any of this. At all.

He's saying three things:

1) Mages have the ability to practice spells without world interaction by canceling the effect of their own spell as they cast it.
2) Removing the ability to cancel the effects of a spell as it is cast would force some mages to interact at an earlier point in their play.
3) Mages interacting with the world at an earlier point in their play would make the game more fun.

Seems to me there's pretty good consensus that point 1 and 2 are accurate for those they pertain to.

Most people that disagree are just arguing against point 3.

I don't know what you're arguing about, but it seems to be deeply entrenched in some sort of personal supposition about Musashi's character and psychology. In being so focused on such things I really think you're missing the point.

[ibusoe]

Neither of the things I've brought up though, are the heart of the issue, because what you're presenting as supporting points are really a series of gripes, and your series of gripes don't support what you're politely representing as a thesis.  I don't think you have a thesis.  I think you have angst, or maybe malaise.  

You're bored, dude.  Bored with mages.  You want to like mages, because there's something about them that expresses you.  They suit your aesthetic.  But you need a break.  If you need to play a mage, and you need to play that mage in Armageddon, and you want to be *challenged* in the way that you're suggesting, maybe play a mage who's a leadership character?  Then organize some HRPT.  Then people will engage you, preferably in the way that you're asking them to.  

What he's saying is actually really straightforward and has almost nothing to do with any of this. At all.

He's saying three things:

1) Mages have the ability to practice spells without world interaction by canceling the effect of their own spell as they cast it.
2) Removing the ability to cancel the effects of a spell as it is cast would force some mages to interact at an earlier point in their play.
3) Mages interacting with the world at an earlier point in their play would make the game more fun.

Seems to me there's pretty good consensus that point 1 and 2 are accurate for those they pertain to.

Most people that disagree are just arguing against point 3.

I don't know what you're arguing about, but it seems to be deeply entrenched in some sort of personal supposition about Musashi's character and psychology. In being so focused on such things I really think you're missing the point.

I missed the point?  Hah, probably.  I was not aware that we were arguing.  It's actually pretty rare that I argue with people, I am more of an agreeable sort of person.  My intention was to give advice for getting more out of the game (in terms of having FUN!!) but I'll concede that Musashi knows *much* more about mages than I do.

Given that I admit that I'm unqualified to pontificate about mages, I was attempting to be more of a *role play coach*, LOL.  I still think the solution to Musashi's problem is spiritual, rather than policy based.

Regardless, it was not my intent to offend.  Please rest assured that I was not arguing, Musashi is one of my favorite posters.  Every time he posts it is a good read even when, no *especially* when I disagree with him. 

[bardlyone]

And if this is too easy for you?  Take it easy, Killer.  You're doing something wrong.  It's not the game that's broken.  The problem is you - you're too much of a hardcore survivalist for Armageddon.  Congratulations.

This is the essence of what's going on here. Musashi, you've played magickers who've not only been more powerful and quicker to "level up" than other mages, and you've also experienced magickal plotlines that are so high magick most of the playerbase hasn't had a similar experience. I can tell you this as someone who knows it and for a fact. I've watched you play and seen the notes on the subject. Just like dozens of other players I've done the same with who do not have a similar experience. Given the starting abilities of a mage the change you're advocating for would require them to not only regularly get into combat situations but also survive them right out of the box with their starting skills without any improvement. Even though none of the magick guilds bear that out as sustainably a way survive at the levels you start them at. None of them. You do not, even with the most damaging of the starting spells, have the ability to seriously harm even small npcs outside of the city - the one place you'd be able to practice it. You also lack the offense/defense and weapons skills to survive the encounter when you top out at being able to cast it twice on average at the levels it starts at. And that's to say nothing of the multiple magick guilds that start with 0 ability that allows them to damage anything or escape it. Just because you think it would make it more fun for you does not mean it would do anything but make it basically unplayable for 80% or more of players. Because that would be the effect.

[bardlyone]

If you spend time being a person and sometimes go 2-3 IC days of login time at a time without ever casting because you are doing other shit, there is no way in hell you will branch fully within the time frame you are talking about. Even with AI wisdom. Again, I've seen the play, I know personally.

Yes ... if you routinely go for multiple IC days of login time without ever training a single skill you will not branch quickly. I personally know this as well.

Most of us however, be us mage or mundane, use our skills every IG day that we happen to be playing. Most clans you join have this built into the schedule they expect you to follow. You are describing something outside the bell curve of typical play.

That's not actually the case with all mage pcs, but with a plurality at best, and usually the numbers drop off after they branch 2-3 things they consider necessary to survive. It's correct with the majority of mundanes, but not the majority of those playing mages, at least not as of 4-5 years ago, though I can't admittedly speak for the current time. Most people would tend to suggest that mages now twink and grief "less" than they did though, so I'm assuming it's the same, if not even more true.

[Eyeball]

What he's saying is actually really straightforward and has almost nothing to do with any of this. At all.

He's saying three things:

1) Mages have the ability to practice spells without world interaction by canceling the effect of their own spell as they cast it.
2) Removing the ability to cancel the effects of a spell as it is cast would force some mages to interact at an earlier point in their play.

Seems to me there's pretty good consensus that point 1 and 2 are accurate for those they pertain to.

I don't see a consensus. If you force gemmed to use 'un' all of the time, they're going to be stuck in their temples waiting for spell effects to wear off, all of the time. If you point out the way that can be abated, then either (1) the gemmed won't have enough coins (efforts have been made to shut down their former regular source), or (2) they will have enough coins (in which case eliminating 'nil' doesn't matter).

For rogue mages, it simply makes them more vulnerable to have to wear visible spells for RL hours on end.

[musashi]

This is the essence of what's going on here. Musashi, you've played magickers who've not only been more powerful and quicker to "level up" than other mages, and you've also experienced magickal plotlines that are so high magick most of the playerbase hasn't had a similar experience. I can tell you this as someone who knows it and for a fact. I've watched you play and seen the notes on the subject. Just like dozens of other players I've done the same with who do not have a similar experience.

This seems to quite heavily imply that you are/were on staff, in which case I find the assertions you're making puzzling. For example:

Given the starting abilities of a mage the change you're advocating for would require them to not only regularly get into combat situations but also survive them right out of the box with their starting skills without any improvement. Even though none of the magick guilds bear that out as sustainably a way survive at the levels you start them at. None of them. You do not, even with the most damaging of the starting spells, have the ability to seriously harm even small npcs outside of the city - the one place you'd be able to practice it.  You also lack the offense/defense and weapons skills to survive the encounter when you top out at being able to cast it twice on average at the levels it starts at. And that's to say nothing of the multiple magick guilds that start with 0 ability that allows them to damage anything or escape it.

You wrote this, but this is an account note left on one of the first mages I played:

Roleplays his ass off while out hunting. Great thinks and emotes where <REDACTED> spell is concerned.

I was 0 days played, in the wild, unfamiliar with the magick system, on a guild that lacks an ability to damage anything or escape it with their starting spells, and I was successfully hunting, and at least one member of staff did take notice and thought to leave a remark about it. That PC was stored, not killed by an aggro mob.

I've likewise played mages who do not manifest their magick until after an IG year of play. I trained their O/D up while waiting. Could they solo carru? No. Could they hunt small game and flee large game? Yes.

[musashi]

If you spend time being a person and sometimes go 2-3 IC days of login time at a time without ever casting because you are doing other shit, there is no way in hell you will branch fully within the time frame you are talking about. Even with AI wisdom. Again, I've seen the play, I know personally.

Yes ... if you routinely go for multiple IC days of login time without ever training a single skill you will not branch quickly. I personally know this as well.

Most of us however, be us mage or mundane, use our skills every IG day that we happen to be playing. Most clans you join have this built into the schedule they expect you to follow. You are describing something outside the bell curve of typical play.

That's not actually the case with all mage pcs, but with a plurality at best, and usually the numbers drop off after they branch 2-3 things they consider necessary to survive. It's correct with the majority of mundanes, but not the majority of those playing mages, at least not as of 4-5 years ago, though I can't admittedly speak for the current time. Most people would tend to suggest that mages now twink and grief "less" than they did though, so I'm assuming it's the same, if not even more true.

Granting this would still mean that:

• I am correct when I claim that a mage who trains their skills with the same modest consistency of a mundane will level up much faster than a mundane will, which is hardly "twinkish" behavior.

[musashi]

I don't see a consensus. If you force gemmed to use 'un' all of the time, they're going to be stuck in their temples waiting for spell effects to wear off, all of the time. If you point out the way that can be abated, then either (1) the gemmed won't have enough coins (efforts have been made to shut down their former regular source), or (2) they will have enough coins (in which case eliminating 'nil' doesn't matter).

For rogue mages, it simply makes them more vulnerable to have to wear visible spells for RL hours on end.

For what it's worth, I did concede this point on the very first page of the thread.

Nil is a way players can try to cast certain spells that, when cast upon themselves, will show visible results that might last a good long while - without making that happen. Imagine having to wait outside the city for over a RL hour, just waiting for the spell to drop, all because they took the nil reach away.

I put this one first because I thought it was the most compelling. That does suck. I've always wished there was an option for mages to cancel their own spells at will instead of having to wait out the timer.

I wouldn't want the nil reach to go away unless a way to cancel one's own defensive buffs was jointly implemented.

[bardlyone]

I HAVE been on staff, but am not currently, and yes, there are SUBGUILDS that modify your ability to do things in the wild that your guild does not allow for. A merchant/archer and a vivaduan/archer are both going to be pissloads better at hunting than a merchant or vivaduan. Same with a few other subs. None of which have anything to do with crafting, which if your assertion about components is to be taken seriously, would be out of the range of what would be chosen, given that these pcs would still need to support themselves somehow. And no, granting that wouldn't mean what you're saying it would. If you prioritize wisdom with any guild, you are going to learn and skill up more quickly. If you don't, you won't. Pretty obvious and right there in the help files.

[musashi]

I HAVE been on staff, but am not currently, and yes, there are SUBGUILDS that modify your ability to do things in the wild that your guild does not allow for. A merchant/archer and a vivaduan/archer are both going to be pissloads better at hunting than a merchant or vivaduan. Same with a few other subs. None of which have anything to do with crafting, which if your assertion about components is to be taken seriously, would be out of the range of what would be chosen, given that these pcs would still need to support themselves somehow.

The aforementioned character was subguilded as a scavenger. He had no combat abilities beyond what the base mage guild would give.

And no, granting that wouldn't mean what you're saying it would. If you prioritize wisdom with any guild, you are going to learn and skill up more quickly. If you don't, you won't. Pretty obvious and right there in the help files.

I'm sure the wisdom stat affects a mage's skill progression. But I would contest it isn't the only factor. I would even go so far as to say it isn't the most relevant.

They start with their very first magicks at 2-3x the levels a mundane does, but after that, you start out at roughly the same place as a mundane, and it's on you how quickly or slowly you go as a result.

... their skills require less environmental conditions in order to train.  You don't need a sparring partner, a thing to climb, a thing to skin, someone to be watching you, etc.

It would seem to me that there are other factors at play as well. I've said multiple times in this thread that I don't have an issue with the rate at which spells skill up per fail (the thing wisdom has an effect on). I'm focused on the other factors.

[Fujikoma]

Fuck it, spec apping a magicker just to store them so I get badass points.

[musashi]

Neither of the things I've brought up though, are the heart of the issue, because what you're presenting as supporting points are really a series of gripes, and your series of gripes don't support what you're politely representing as a thesis.  I don't think you have a thesis.  I think you have angst, or maybe malaise.  

You're bored, dude.  Bored with mages.  You want to like mages, because there's something about them that expresses you.  They suit your aesthetic.  But you need a break.  If you need to play a mage, and you need to play that mage in Armageddon, and you want to be *challenged* in the way that you're suggesting, maybe play a mage who's a leadership character?  Then organize some HRPT.  Then people will engage you, preferably in the way that you're asking them to.  

To clarify isbusoe, I'm not bored with Armageddon, or mages. I recently started playing again after a year and some change, and I'm enjoying myself. As the title of the thread implies, I'm just sharing some thoughts I've recently had with everyone for the sake of discussion.

And I feel like some good has come out of it. I really liked brytta's idea for how to handle protective buffs (I liked it so much I idea'd it in game). I had overlooked the playbility issues with waiting for said buffs to wear off in my initial critique of the nil reach as being superfluous, and I'm glad that was brought to my attention (credit to Lizzie).

I heard things that I didn't think were accurate, and contested them.

And of course, there were also differences in simple preference and opinion as well.

All in the realm of friendly discussion.

I can assure you, I'm enjoying the game man.  

[Inks]

I have leveled several mages. I have never used nil.