Armor Materials Now Completed -- Discussion Thread

[bcw81]

Half-giants and resizing:  if you want an unofficial staff thought on it, the only reason it is possible to resize small stuff to quite a bit bigger stuff is because of player convenience and a lack of a coded alternative.  If it changes it will likely be in the direction of resizing upwards being impossible past a certain point.

Before that change we need to put in sufficient HG specific armor and clothing. Because we don't want a world full of nekid half giants! At least I don't.

Diminutive half-elven woman wearing frilly silks and fancy earrings everywhere disagree with you.

[Desertman]

Half-giants and resizing:  if you want an unofficial staff thought on it, the only reason it is possible to resize small stuff to quite a bit bigger stuff is because of player convenience and a lack of a coded alternative.  If it changes it will likely be in the direction of resizing upwards being impossible past a certain point.

Before that change we need to put in sufficient HG specific armor and clothing. Because we don't want a world full of nekid half giants! At least I don't.

Diminutive half-elven woman wearing frilly silks and fancy earrings everywhere disagree with you.

I'm not even sure if I want to ask what sort of half-elf women you have played now.....I get the feeling the logs would be....terrifying and fascinating.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Per the issue of trying to figure out what material to use to repair something, examine should tell you the material type of whatever you look at. Maybe a feature reserved for those with certain crafting skills. This way, you could examine both the armor and the repairing material and know if it's what you need.

[Patuk]

Ruining the item in a repair attempt should be extremely rare and impossible for a Master to do. There should be craftable items, like say:
A chitin patch. A leather patch.

I actually really like this idea; it solves the problem of not really being able to repair a single broken square of armour without wasting an entire goddamn scrab's shell(yes, hyperbole.) You could allow people to, say, 'craft rough.chitinous.shell into set of chitin patches' and end up with 15-or-so with them, if only to make sure repairing things gets economically viable.

It also allows staff to be hilarious when adding it to the game.

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System modification: 15 minutes until reboot. Reason: the patch patch is due to be added

[bcw81]

Half-giants and resizing:  if you want an unofficial staff thought on it, the only reason it is possible to resize small stuff to quite a bit bigger stuff is because of player convenience and a lack of a coded alternative.  If it changes it will likely be in the direction of resizing upwards being impossible past a certain point.

Before that change we need to put in sufficient HG specific armor and clothing. Because we don't want a world full of nekid half giants! At least I don't.

Diminutive half-elven woman wearing frilly silks and fancy earrings everywhere disagree with you.

I'm not even sure if I want to ask what sort of half-elf women you have played now.....I get the feeling the logs would be....terrifying and fascinating.

Ey bb dun b shiey

[Armaddict]

Half-giants and resizing:  if you want an unofficial staff thought on it, the only reason it is possible to resize small stuff to quite a bit bigger stuff is because of player convenience and a lack of a coded alternative.  If it changes it will likely be in the direction of resizing upwards being impossible past a certain point.

Before that change we need to put in sufficient HG specific armor and clothing. Because we don't want a world full of nekid half giants! At least I don't.

Enter song about Zalanthan Helicopters.

[nauta]

Half-giants and resizing:  if you want an unofficial staff thought on it, the only reason it is possible to resize small stuff to quite a bit bigger stuff is because of player convenience and a lack of a coded alternative.  If it changes it will likely be in the direction of resizing upwards being impossible past a certain point.

Before that change we need to put in sufficient HG specific armor and clothing. Because we don't want a world full of nekid half giants! At least I don't.

Enter song about Zalanthan Helicopters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh02dV0ao-w

[RogueGunslinger]

I haven't seen the effects of this yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm not a fan of the change. Same goes for tool degradation. Just seems like meaningless hoops to jump through that don't add anything to the enjoyment of the game.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm curious to see it in action, though I have similar concerns to RGS and others: that this is just a hoop that's going to require more time and money to get through. Otherwise, I support things in the game following a sane pattern of use.


What I'm really hoping for is that this is a step towards reviewing armor values and letting us anticipate a piece of armor's effectiveness, rather than having to find out through trail and error if your 20-line mastercraft helm is as good as the one with a 10 word description.

[wizturbo]

What I'm really hoping for is that this is a step towards reviewing armor values and letting us anticipate a piece of armor's effectiveness, rather than having to find out through trail and error if your 20-line mastercraft helm is as good as the one with a 10 word description.

I really want this for all armors, weapons and tools if you have the appropriate skill to evaluate the item's effectiveness.  I'd much rather have it be a comparison command though.  Compare two pieces of armor, or weapons, and see the relative differences.  

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The obsidian shortsword seems faster than the bone longsword.
The obsidian shortsword seems like it would do less HP damage than bone longsword.
The obsidian shortsword seems like it would do about the same Stun damage as the bone longsword.
The obsidian shortsword seems more effective at parrying than bone longsword.


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The grey bandage appears more effective at staunching wounds than the smelly piece of rag.


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The black, chitin helmet seems like it would provide more protection against slashing attacks than the padded bone helm.
The black, chitin helmet seems like it would provide less protection against bludgeoning attacks than the padded bone helm.
The black, chitin helmet seems like it would provide about the same protection against slashing attacks than the padded bone helm.



That kind of thing.  So, in order to find the best items, you need a lot of items to compare them against...i.e...Salarri really will be the experts on what gear is amazing, if they care to share that information

I would also tune this to be less than 100% precise, just give you a general idea.  I don't want everyone in the game to inevitably use the same exact weapons because they 'compare' better than everything else.  If something does 12 damage, and another does 13, it should show up as "about the same" in the comparison.

[Armaddict]

What I'm really hoping for is that this is a step towards reviewing armor values and letting us anticipate a piece of armor's effectiveness, rather than having to find out through trail and error if your 20-line mastercraft helm is as good as the one with a 10 word description.

I really want this for all armors, weapons and tools if you have the appropriate skill to evaluate the item's effectiveness.  I'd much rather have it be a comparison command though.  Compare two pieces of armor, or weapons, and see the relative differences. 

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This shortsword seems faster than the longsword.
This shortsword seems like it would do less damage than the longsword.
This shortsword seems more effective at parrying than the longsword.


That kind of thing.  So, in order to find the best items, you need a lot of items to compare them against...i.e...Salarri really will be the experts on what gear is amazing...if they care to share that information

This shortsword is highly ineffective against platemail of all kinds.
This shortsword is highly effective against low grade leathers.
This shortsword is effective against middle grade leathers.
This shortsword is less effective against...

So on and so forth.  That's the sort of weapon/armor itemization I want.  Highly interactive gear.

[wizturbo]

This shortsword is highly ineffective against platemail of all kinds.
This shortsword is highly effective against low grade leathers.
This shortsword is effective against middle grade leathers.
This shortsword is less effective against...

So on and so forth.  That's the sort of weapon/armor itemization I want.  Highly interactive gear.

I don't think that's how items are designed now though.  I don't think there's a "platemail vs. bone shortsword" calculation.  I might be wrong though.  I'm not asking for a complete redesign of the combat code and mechanics, just a way to compare items against each other.  I think it's a lot easier to build something like that, which is just comparing values on the items...

[Armaddict]

This shortsword is highly ineffective against platemail of all kinds.
This shortsword is highly effective against low grade leathers.
This shortsword is effective against middle grade leathers.
This shortsword is less effective against...

So on and so forth.  That's the sort of weapon/armor itemization I want.  Highly interactive gear.

I don't think that's how items are designed now though.  I don't think there's a "platemail vs. bone shortsword" calculation.  I might be wrong though.  I'm not asking for a complete redesign of the combat code and mechanics, just a way to compare items against each other.  I think it's a lot easier to build something like that, which is just comparing values on the items...

That's what I'm saying.  I'd like it built up to that.  It requires a bit more of a code overhaul.  But your compare brings out that interactivity between items.

[Vox]

From what I recall on the skill, it had issues.
Too difficult to train. Critical failures ruining the item you are attempting to repair.
Ruining the item in a repair attempt should be extremely rare and impossible for a Master to do. There should be craftable items, like say:
A chitin patch. A leather patch.
That would allow you to increase the skill without even having a chance to ruin precious armor. And it might make it a little more realistic to craft such patches and then use them to repair the armor. Maybe just ruining the patches on a critical failure instead of the item you intend to repair.
Make repaired armor show up as something other than "new". Patched armor, used armor, etc.

This. Is a great idea.

[Nyr]

What I'm really hoping for is that this is a step towards reviewing armor values and letting us anticipate a piece of armor's effectiveness

By itself, with nothing else, this is a step towards players being able to figure out what armor IS good.  If all armor can be damaged by combat, then armor that is stronger will last longer before needing repair.

However, there is "more" in that this is indeed only one step that is part of this project, which directly affects weapons more than armor (the armor change here was a necessary precursor):

Updating weapon values and material affects/effects.  Proposal submitted, WIP.
Owners:  Nessalin, Taijan

[whitt]

this is indeed only one step that is part of this project, which directly affects weapons more than armor (the armor change here was a necessary precursor):

Aww yeah!  Weak weapons snapping when they hit hard armor.  Nice!

[Clearsighted]

Put a repairer in RS.

Done

Hooray! Great updates lately!

I randomly idea'd about a red storm repair guy before reading this, coincidentally.

[Mordiggian]

I haven't seen the effects of this yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm not a fan of the change. Same goes for tool degradation. Just seems like meaningless hoops to jump through that don't add anything to the enjoyment of the game.

It's more of a 'fix' than a 'change'. Certain material types did not have entries in the table that determines how they take damage.

[Armaddict]

I haven't seen the effects of this yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm not a fan of the change. Same goes for tool degradation. Just seems like meaningless hoops to jump through that don't add anything to the enjoyment of the game.

The beginning will likely be a bit jarring.

But over time, I bet it will go a long way towards identifying guy who spend all their time out in the wilds, who suffer actual wear and tear, over the neat and tidy hunter who rarely goes out.  Could add some interesting dynamics to the world...just that it will be a hassle for people who are used to all of their things staying new, thinking it was put in just to penalize them, over adding another dynamic layer to the game.

Then again, if the rates are messed up, and it happens all the time and is expensive to even keep armor serviceable, then I'd agree with you.

[Synthesis]

Man, I almost want to roll a merchant who isn't a subclass armorcrafter, now.

Last merchant:

You have been playing for 39 days and 12 hours.

Craft skills
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*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (advanced) *****   (journeyman)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   armor repair                  (novice)
analyze (novice)   *****   (master)
*****   (master)   *****   (master)

[AdamBlue]

This change is fine.

EDIT:
If you make special armor for super ripped motherfuckers (EG: Half giants)
they should be just as good as regular armor, if not much better to compensate for the incredible slowness of the character type

[Lizzie]

If this is a precursor to weapon degradation, then I'd like to bring this up in advance:

Half-giants, dwarf-warriors, and muls in particular, all have a nasty habit of breaking clubs and sparring weapons long before anyone else does. This is incredibly expensive, especially for newly-generated PCs who just don't have money to replace them every RL week. It's also a drain on clan funds to constantly have to replace sparring weapons because Amos the Stump busted the last dagger, again.

My request is that the ability to completely destroy a weapon be turned down a notch, OR that sparring weapons be documented as having some internal support that we can't see by looking at them, that makes them less destructable - and then make them MUCH less destructable. Not indestructable - having to replace them once in awhile is a good idea and I totally get it and support it. But I remember the last time I was a Sergeant and had to replace sparring weapons for a half-giant - it was pretty frustrating.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree with Lizzie to some extent. I think someone who uses their weapons should tend to them, but if weapons are going to all wear out, which I actually hope happens, they all need to be clear on how much they are worn, and, no weapon should break cometely. A "broken" weapon should still be usable, but with terrible damage stats.

[Eurynomos]

I agree with Lizzie to some extent. I think someone who uses their weapons should tend to them, but if weapons are going to all wear out, which I actually hope happens, they all need to be clear on how much they are worn, and, no weapon should break cometely. A "broken" weapon should still be usable, but with terrible damage stats.

Why?

I think weapons breaking is one of the cooler features of combat. Perhaps the frequency could be looked at, but I don't think broken weapons should...Not break?

[BadSkeelz]

Just because a weapon breaks doesn't mean it should disintegrate in your hand. If your Awesome Longsword of Grievous Wounds suddenly turned into a Shattered Hilt of Nicking Blows, that's more realistic than it both never breaking at all, or just ceasing to exist.