Leadership Role Thoughts (Derail from RAT)

[Mordiggian]

By the same token, one can hardly be praised for their great RP and non-twinkery, if they basically are made codedly powerful off the bat.

I am not sure I understand your thought process here.

A well-played PC is a well-played PC.

[Molten Heart]

I believe Clearsighted is saying that having one's app accepted for a sponsored role isn't worthy of praise because the character, the player, and the role, weren't ever tested by the journey in getting there, they only arrive in their current place in the story with a brief background, some skill boosts and the imagination the player brings.

The virtue of getting the role is only an opportunity.

[Clearsighted]

By the same token, one can hardly be praised for their great RP and non-twinkery, if they basically are made codedly powerful off the bat.

I am not sure I understand your thought process here.

A well-played PC is a well-played PC.

This is a completely derailed tangent, that I'm just going to get into for the sake of responding to a question. Don't read too much into it. It's not a manifesto, just a few idle thoughts.

Player A apps a mundane character. He's been playing Armageddon for many years. He uses his knowledge of the game world to quickly skill up his mundane character. He runs the risk while doing so of being tarred as a twink, or too skill-focused. He does this because most non-aide/crafter/sponsored roles in the game are combat orientated (hunter, merc, soldier, etc) and he doesn't want to be a push-over.

Player B apps a mundane character. He immediately joins a clan and spend all his time RPing, with only a light bit of sparring. After several months of building beautiful relationships (or just mudsexing), he dies to something stupid. Perhaps he loses connection and a raptor kills him in the 15 seconds to get back on, or he gets one-shotted by a guard due to crime code, or forgetting he was carrying spice. A slightly more codedly powerful character would have survived both mishaps. If people realize he isn't a codedly powerful mundane, they likely won't respect him much.

Player B better watch his ass in an RPT, where the NPCs are often (not always) statted with an eye to the toughest PC in the group.

Player C apps a gicker. They can RP all they want, and bring the world alive, and focus all their time on forging relationships, because it is extremely easy to get maxed out as a gicker, and requires zero survival skills. 'Nil' means they can sit somewhere in safety, cast a couple times, then spend the rest of the day showing everyone what a great RPer/mudsexer they are.

Player D apps into a sponsored role. They can hit the ground running without needing to worry about skilling themselves up, and thus skipping past all the possible temptation or danger of being tarred as 'too skill focused'.

Point is. Some guilds have greater challenges than others, getting to the point where they can focus on RP, without knowing (through long experience) that doing otherwise risks a humiliating death.

I'd be mildly annoyed (more ruefully amused, really) at seeing someone start with an advanced weapon, without having traditionally earned it in the past. Because it is just about impossible to acquire such skill, without at some point, tripping over somebody's arbitrary measure of who is a twink or not. On an entirely unrelated note, I'd be curious to know, of all the Arm staffers, what percentage of them have ever branched a warrior's combat skills.

[Delirium]

We won't make them use up CGP.

[BadSkeelz]

I think expecting app-in combat leader PCs to be combat powerhouses and judging their merit on that is kind of missing the point. Being a leader isn't about being able to hit things really hard - dwarves and half-giants do it better. A good leader doesn't necessarily have to get in to combat at all: if their recruiting, networking, and Fun Generating skills can keep the clan well-stocked with combat beefcakes who are engaged and having a good time, they're just as successful as Lieutenant Slamfist who can 2 shot a met and wipes his ass with horror shell.

I'd much rather have a leader who makes the clan fun to play in than one who can kill things really good on their own but is a bore to be around.

[wizturbo]

I think expecting app-in combat leader PCs to be combat powerhouses and judging their merit on that is kind of missing the point. Being a leader isn't about being able to hit things really hard - dwarves and half-giants do it better. A good leader doesn't necessarily have to get in to combat at all: if their recruiting, networking, and Fun Generating skills can keep the clan well-stocked with combat beefcakes who are engaged and having a good time, they're just as successful as Lieutenant Slamfist who can 2 shot a met and wipes his ass with horror shell.

I'd much rather have a leader who makes the clan fun to play in than one who can kill things really good on their own but is a bore to be around.

True, but if the tradition is that T'zai Byn Lieutenants come from the ranks of successful Sergeants...they're going to know how to wield weapons VERY well to survive long enough to make it that far.  To make a Lieutenant that can't whoop some new Sergeant's ass would be jarring in my mind.  That's not to say that any Lieutenant should be able to whoop any Sergeant's ass...  just talking about starting values here.

[BadSkeelz]

If you're relying on the asswhooping power of your Lieutenant to get a contract done, somethings already gone horribly wrong.

[Case]

I think expecting app-in combat leader PCs to be combat powerhouses and judging their merit on that is kind of missing the point. Being a leader isn't about being able to hit things really hard - dwarves and half-giants do it better. A good leader doesn't necessarily have to get in to combat at all: if their recruiting, networking, and Fun Generating skills can keep the clan well-stocked with combat beefcakes who are engaged and having a good time, they're just as successful as Lieutenant Slamfist who can 2 shot a met and wipes his ass with horror shell.

I'd much rather have a leader who makes the clan fun to play in than one who can kill things really good on their own but is a bore to be around.

Well said my protege

[Synthesis]

Yeah, not every Byn Sergeant has been a warrior.

I'm pretty sure there was a burglar Sarge a while back.  There's no way he was kicking ass and taking names, but I'm assuming he did an okay job.

[Narf]

Yeah, not every Byn Sergeant has been a warrior.

I'm pretty sure there was a burglar Sarge a while back.  There's no way he was kicking ass and taking names, but I'm assuming he did an okay job.

That would be so awesome!

You could break into your recruit's apartments while they were mudsexing and force them to go "as is" to the training yard.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Riev]

One struggle of a leader, unfortunately, is figuring out what the goal IS. You can invest in your minions, find out what they want, what their desires are, and help them work towards it, but most don't KNOW. They just know they want to do SOMETHING.

I imagine its kind of like being on Staff.

[BadSkeelz]

You can get away with killing your annoying charges more readily as a Leader-PC than as a Staff member, however.

[Delirium]

One struggle of a leader, unfortunately, is figuring out what the goal IS. You can invest in your minions, find out what they want, what their desires are, and help them work towards it, but most don't KNOW. They just know they want to do SOMETHING.

I imagine its kind of like being on Staff.

So get them to believe in your cause, since they clearly don't have a cause to begin with!

[Malken]

A leader without a cause is not a leader.

[Akaramu]

How to infect your minions with your cause:

[Molten Heart]

.

[Riev]

I think that from the perspective of a player, from an OOC perspective, many times it's just about having fun while pursuing the "what" portion, "what" being the leaders goals.

I agree. Its why I like clans like the Byn, or indie mercenary-like groups, because if I don't -HAVE- a plan, and the group is kinda stagnant, you can always latch onto OTHER people's plans.

[bardlyone]

I find:

<I/We> must have <clan/pc>'s help with <mcguffin of choice>!

makes for a pretty solid formula for keeping a goal at all times, with an increasingly larger mcguffin as needed, and mcguffin being pretty much any possible goal that makes sense and is mutually beneficial. The last kudos I got was actually about how self made my pc's goals were and how they always stayed busy and were such a self starter. Admittedly, i was from the leader pc they were working 'beneath', rather than as a leader pc in their own right, but really, it scales up in orders of magnitude, because the formula always involves more people in the game world and spreads the fun and goals around.

[Is Friday]

If you currently play a leader or want to become one, this video is worth your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ZoJKF_VuA

This is the core of how leadership works. On a fundamental level if you can inspire some to believe in your character internally, you'll also inspire others that want to oppose you as a villain. Happens every time I'm playing a leader.

[Rathustra]

I clicked this thread and saw a post by Mordi and for a brief moment I thought he'd rejoined staff.

[lostinspace]

IMO non-coded powerful leaders are fine as long as they're generating fun. The downside is that an errant aggro mob might end that fun relatively quickly on a contract where a more codedly capable leader PC would have survived and lived to keep on generating fun.

As far as I can tell that's the only downside of not being a code powerhouse leader, turnover rate. And honestly I like hearing that little bell chime, especially when it's not me on the receiving end.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I don't have a problem with Leaders getting bumped up in skill.  I do think that people that have already focused their time into the clan should get first dibs though...In the Byn anyway.   Obviously some commoner isn't going to just become a noble.   

[Malken]

I feel like now that I have to deal with students' parents who feel like their kids are special snowflakes that need to be sheltered from all the evils of life (which is a very broad definition I've come to find out, not to mention that these are university students) I could probably pull off a leadership role without wanting to kill myself two weeks in.