Sparring Dummy Reform

[Lizzie]

There is literally no reason under the sun for there not to be NPC instructors that don't immersion. I'm on my phone now, but when I get to my computer, I'll outline a basic script for what I'd expect from a NPC instructor. And yes, it would account only for training alone. The scripting would simply not allow two PCS to be in the same room, learning from it.

Here's a reason (rising to your challenging claim that there is literally no reason):

If I want my clan-mate to fail at rising in skill, all I'd need to do is show up and hide; and the scripting would cease to function. And if you allow for hiding, then I could just show up and sit down, and claim I pulled a tendon in the last sparring session and have to sit out but I'll watch (and then, watch him have to solo-emote with no coded benefits at all).

[RogueGunslinger]

First of all, lol at that scenario ever actually happening. Because it wouldn't. Because everyone who goes to training likely wants their skills to go up.

Secondly, If it did then your character would be subject to punishment for failing to follow schedule or keep healthy enough to train. More likely it would be taken as an attempt to avoid training, and the character would suffer enough repercussions that I'd find it more amusing than annoying.

Thirdly, and most importantly, that isn't a reason for not implementing the idea. Not even remotely. It's just a scenario where the idea wouldn't help.

[Lizzie]

First of all, lol at that scenario ever actually happening. Because it wouldn't. Because everyone who goes to training likely wants their skills to go up.

Secondly, If it did then your character would be subject to punishment for failing to follow schedule or keep healthy enough to train. More likely it would be taken as an attempt to avoid training, and the character would suffer enough repercussions that I'd find it more amusing than annoying.

Thirdly, and most importantly, that isn't a reason for not implementing the idea. Not even remotely. It's just a scenario where the idea wouldn't help.

I was thinking more on the order of clans where sparring isn't required on a strict schedule, OR where it's only required for recruits and "graduates" are encouraged to spar, but aren't required. Any combat character who already has skills, who can't gain anything from sparring against a new, unseasoned PC, who doesn't WANT that unseasoned PC to succeed, would be able to make use of this kind of code to their advantage by preventing the script from running just by being there.

They wouldn't even have to kill anyone - the newer, unseasoned person would simply have no way to improve during those times when the script runs and the higher skilled person is present.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There are very, very few PCS who will manage to get to the point that they can not gain something from sparring with another PC, even if the chances to gain something slow down to a crawl, and even if they have to change the way they spar.

[Synthesis]

There are very, very few PCS who will manage to get to the point that they can not gain something from sparring with another PC, even if the chances to gain something slow down to a crawl, and even if they have to change the way they spar.

What? No.

Weapon skill + base offense outpaces defense to the tune of 99.9% of the time LONG before weapon mastery.  You might "gain something" if you switch to a weapon that you don't care about, and will never actually use, just to watch it bump from novice to apprentice, so you're "technically" correct, I suppose.  But otherwise--no.  Sparring ceases to be useful for weapon and style skills before you even hit (advanced), for most people.  If you're in an elf clan, you can probably push it a little farther, but not by much.  Also, you can just plain -forget- about ever getting two-handed beyond (journeyman) if all you're doing is sparring.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I didn't say that the results would be crystal clear, or that progress wouldn't crawl along. I didn't say that it would help everyone. And maybe I exaggerated with the bit about 'very, very few'. And yes, you're not going to master a lot of stuff while sparring. But let's be honest, between you and I; there's probably quite a few fighters who aren't exactly doing everything they could, because it's either too slow, or they don't understand it all, or it takes too much time away from RPing. I know I tend to be lazy along this line, because I spend a lot of time RPing rather than maxing.

You hit on one key thing plenty of people could work on in your very first sentence. And you and I both know how.

And to trump all of this, if they are OOCly choosing not to spar someone because they won't gain anything, then it's probable that whoever they are not sparring would gain something, so they should be sparring anyway, if it's their IC job to do so.

[Synthesis]

I didn't say that the results would be crystal clear, or that progress wouldn't crawl along. I didn't say that it would help everyone. And maybe I exaggerated with the bit about 'very, very few'. But let's be honest, between you and I; there's probably quite a few fighters who aren't exactly doing everything they could, because it's either too slow, or they don't understand it all, or it takes too much time away from RPing. I know I tend to be lazy along this line, because I spend a lot of time RPing rather than maxing.

You hit on one key thing plenty of people could work on in your very first sentence. And you and I both know how.

And to trump all of this, if they are OOCly choosing not to spar someone because they won't gain anything, then it's probable that whoever they are not sparring would gain something, so they should be sparring anyway, if it's their IC job to do so.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, exactly, because I've never gone down the "do weird shit in sparring" route.  Anyway, it's entirely possible for 2 people to spar and to learn nothing.  It happens all the damn time, I imagine, otherwise there wouldn't be any sparring plateau at all.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There is literally no reason under the sun for there not to be NPC instructors that don't immersion. I'm on my phone now, but when I get to my computer, I'll outline a basic script for what I'd expect from a NPC instructor. And yes, it would account only for training alone. The scripting would simply not allow two PCS to be in the same room, learning from it.

Here's a reason (rising to your challenging claim that there is literally no reason):

If I want my clan-mate to fail at rising in skill, all I'd need to do is show up and hide; and the scripting would cease to function. And if you allow for hiding, then I could just show up and sit down, and claim I pulled a tendon in the last sparring session and have to sit out but I'll watch (and then, watch him have to solo-emote with no coded benefits at all).

Geez. Hyperbole much, girl? I have never once run into a situation like this, but I suppose it's possible. But guess what? I could account for even that, I think.

It's been a while since I've messed with the old ROM 2.4 scripting, so I might be wrong (I could even be thinking about Circle's scripting), but I'm pretty sure I could have him give you invis, weightless, unique objects as counters, reference each person carrying each individual unique counter, put timers on people as he emotes or says something, take your counter if the timer expires without you providing the correct response (which by the way, could be modified to include phrases, words, commands, etc), and a host of other things.

If I'm scripting him to use actual combat by way of teaching, as opposed to using the teach command, I could set hp thresholds for both you and him, cast wizinvis calm on targets/room with custom messages to explain why you are no longer fighting, script him to intercept any command you type, null it, and give custom responses to each one to explain the unusual state. I can even give you choices to do something; for instance, if he calmed you, and you still wanted to fight, I could script him to offer you the choice to do so through timers and echoes. Shit, I can script him to kick you out of the clan and show you the door, too.

This all assumes Armageddon has a custom scripting language as robust as this. I'm assuming it's fairly robust because of the various things I've seen scripted, but I'm also assuming NPCs are not often scripted well because of how the Staff emphasizes PC on PC interaction. I, however, have always been a huge proponent of fully scripting everything, so of course this is my answer to such a problem.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I didn't say that the results would be crystal clear, or that progress wouldn't crawl along. I didn't say that it would help everyone. And maybe I exaggerated with the bit about 'very, very few'. But let's be honest, between you and I; there's probably quite a few fighters who aren't exactly doing everything they could, because it's either too slow, or they don't understand it all, or it takes too much time away from RPing. I know I tend to be lazy along this line, because I spend a lot of time RPing rather than maxing.

You hit on one key thing plenty of people could work on in your very first sentence. And you and I both know how.

And to trump all of this, if they are OOCly choosing not to spar someone because they won't gain anything, then it's probable that whoever they are not sparring would gain something, so they should be sparring anyway, if it's their IC job to do so.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, exactly, because I've never gone down the "do weird shit in sparring" route.  Anyway, it's entirely possible for 2 people to spar and to learn nothing.  It happens all the damn time, I imagine, otherwise there wouldn't be any sparring plateau at all.

Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting you do weird shit while sparring, but I'm also not going to be blathering about code a ton, so I'll just let it be what it is. To cede you your point though, yes, sparring becomes useless for some folks after a while.

[Synthesis]

I didn't say that the results would be crystal clear, or that progress wouldn't crawl along. I didn't say that it would help everyone. And maybe I exaggerated with the bit about 'very, very few'. But let's be honest, between you and I; there's probably quite a few fighters who aren't exactly doing everything they could, because it's either too slow, or they don't understand it all, or it takes too much time away from RPing. I know I tend to be lazy along this line, because I spend a lot of time RPing rather than maxing.

You hit on one key thing plenty of people could work on in your very first sentence. And you and I both know how.

And to trump all of this, if they are OOCly choosing not to spar someone because they won't gain anything, then it's probable that whoever they are not sparring would gain something, so they should be sparring anyway, if it's their IC job to do so.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, exactly, because I've never gone down the "do weird shit in sparring" route.  Anyway, it's entirely possible for 2 people to spar and to learn nothing.  It happens all the damn time, I imagine, otherwise there wouldn't be any sparring plateau at all.

Fair enough. I wasn't suggesting you do weird shit while sparring, but I'm also not going to be blathering about code a ton, so I'll just let it be what it is. To cede you your point though, yes, sparring becomes useless for some folks after a while.

If "some" didn't equal "most," and "after a while" didn't equal "long before you are really any good at all," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, that's fair, assuming that those did equal that. But I think the older, somewhat limited code, and the obfuscated way in which it seems to work, given my own observations, makes a lot of people think it's useless before it actually is. Regardless, I agree with you, assuming you wish that it worked in a smarter manner.