Prettiness Guilt

[Harmless]

By the way, fuck Evershine, Tuluk's official theme song is now Empire of the Sun. (i pshopped this album cover for ya'll)

and on topic, I have I have absolutely no prettiness guilt.

Edit: Click the album cover for the songs

[Patuk]

I've said before that one way(not the only way) to solve the whole gender thing is for people to stop playing every other she-character as a merchant, magicker, aide, whatever, and make them all sweet and cuddly.

Play some kind of mean, warrior/ranger, tough woman instead, and then the whole 'no sexism' rule of the game will be easier to play out.

I do my utmost best to adhere to that, and do fairly good of a job at it as far as I can tell, but let's not pretend that part of the problem is kiiiiiinda how so few female characters are guild_warrior in the first place.

[bardlyone]

I've said before that one way(not the only way) to solve the whole gender thing is for people to stop playing every other she-character as a merchant, magicker, aide, whatever, and make them all sweet and cuddly.

Play some kind of mean, warrior/ranger, tough woman instead, and then the whole 'no sexism' rule of the game will be easier to play out.

I do my utmost best to adhere to that, and do fairly good of a job at it as far as I can tell, but let's not pretend that part of the problem is kiiiiiinda how so few female characters are guild_warrior in the first place.

I'd play more warriors if they had other skills than just combat shit. I hate combat. I shouldn't have to play something I dislike in order to make someone else feel like they finally have a compelling enough reason to follow the documentation that already exists.

[aeglaeca]

...? Are female warriors and rangers really that rare?

Are we only counting warriors here?

[Is Friday]

...? Are female warriors and rangers really that rare?

Are we only counting warriors here?

They are not rare.

[Patuk]

Relatively so at least, in my experience. Bardlyone is also right- you shouldn't have to. It just helps.

[Case]

Relatively so at least, in my experience. Bardlyone is also right- you shouldn't have to. It just helps.

So as usual, it's the players of female PCs' fault for playing characters that are wholly legitimate (soft, cuddly, gicks whatever) and not specifically making warriors and rangers to embody an ideal of masculinity that's ridiculous enough even for men?

[Tuannon]

If a female character is mean, I just assume it's Is Friday.

[bardlyone]

Relatively so at least, in my experience. Bardlyone is also right- you shouldn't have to. It just helps.

So as usual, it's the players of female PCs' fault for playing characters that are wholly legitimate (soft, cuddly, gicks whatever) and not specifically making warriors and rangers to embody an ideal of masculinity that's ridiculous enough even for men?

Not only is this true, I think it just helps to point out how this, and what was said earlier about how feminine male pcs get less shit/funny looks/sexism/etc, only reinforce each other. That's one of the ways that sexism is deeply ingrained into society. The same artificial heart that saves like 89% of male patients only saves 20% of female patients, because everyone works on a male baseline and assumes female is a deviation, rather than that they're both valid. I could go on for days about that, though.

[Patuk]

I took care to not say anything of the sort, but if you want to run with your strawman and misrepresent my point, I won't stop you.

[Marauder Moe]

The fact (if it is true) that female PCs occupy a higher percentage of less-gritty social roles than male PCs does not excuse IG misogyny.

The solution to PCs not respecting a woman's authority isn't adding more she-hulks to the game.  The solution is just fucking RESPECT HER AUTHORITAH!

[Case]

I took care to not say anything of the sort, but if you want to run with your strawman and misrepresent my point, I won't stop you.

It's what you said, so explain better? I didn't use a strawman.

[Patuk]

Relatively so at least, in my experience. Bardlyone is also right- you shouldn't have to. It just helps.

There are fewer she-fighters than he-fighters, and female characters in general have a lower percentage of warriors, at least in my experience.

Bardlyone is correct, female characters being treated properly(or male ones) isn't on their players to bring about.

That said, if the relative amount of female warriors would increase, it'd probably make things a little better at least. It is a solution, not the solution.

[Case]

Relatively so at least, in my experience. Bardlyone is also right- you shouldn't have to. It just helps.

There are fewer she-fighters than he-fighters, and female characters in general have a lower percentage of warriors, at least in my experience.

Bardlyone is correct, female characters being treated properly(or male ones) isn't on their players to bring about.

That said, if the relative amount of female warriors would increase, it'd probably make things a little better at least. It is a solution, not the solution.

How is fewer female fighters (and we have no stats on this or anything) an issue exactly?

[Patuk]

When the ratio of soldiers/mercenaries/whatevers to aides/crafters/whatevers is skewed towards the latter more than the former, you can mildly justify saying being a female fighter is strange by pointing to every other woman you know being a tressy-tressed someone in the Red's. It's the same argument behind not being afraid of messing with elves because no tribes exist, or assuming PCs who swear they are humble grocers/farmers/whatever must be magickers or somesuch because these are uncoded and unprofitable professions.

[Case]

When the ratio of soldiers/mercenaries/whatevers to aides/crafters/whatevers is skewed towards the latter more than the former, you can mildly justify saying being a female fighter is strange by pointing to every other woman you know being a tressy-tressed someone in the Red's. It's the same argument behind not being afraid of messing with elves because no tribes exist, or assuming PCs who swear they are humble grocers/farmers/whatever must be magickers or somesuch because these are uncoded and unprofitable professions.

Uh yeah ok. I don't think you can mildly justify it. Gender roles are expectations to conform to a set of behaviours, not just traditional ones. And as usual, it's always the women who are under scrutiny - not the majority men playing tough types, who could just as easily play aides/crafters/whatevers. Even got a good ol' stereotype in with tressy-tressed! Nice. If only players of female PCs wanted to be chisel-chins like all the badass guys eh eh.

If anybody's RP is that lazy where anything you've stated is legitimate play in their book, they're shit at Arm and roleplay.

[Patuk]

Okay then.

[Barzalene]

Going back to what I said earlier. You're never going to make everyone happy. Make great pcs and enjoy playing them. If other people don't recognize your brilliance, fuck em. Assholes all of them.

[Armaddict]

Going back to what I said earlier. You're never going to make everyone happy. Make great pcs and enjoy playing them. If other people don't recognize your brilliance, fuck em. Assholes all of them.

This.

And no matter what pc's people choose to play, follow documentation as far as how the world works.  Then treat each pc accordingly.  All this side discussion is literally kind of a pointless one.

Interesting note:  In order to avoid playing perfect looking pcs that weren't deformed, I started giving each of my characters at least one fundamental flaw.  Then there was a recent article that came out talking about how every male f-me has one characteristic flaw.  I'VE BEEN DOING IT WRONG.

[Barzalene]

Going back to what I said earlier. You're never going to make everyone happy. Make great pcs and enjoy playing them. If other people don't recognize your brilliance, fuck em. Assholes all of them.

This.

And no matter what pc's people choose to play, follow documentation as far as how the world works.  Then treat each pc accordingly.  All this side discussion is literally kind of a pointless one.

Interesting note:  In order to avoid playing perfect looking pcs that weren't deformed, I started giving each of my characters at least one fundamental flaw.  Then there was a recent article that came out talking about how every male f-me has one characteristic flaw.  I'VE BEEN DOING IT WRONG.

One word for you: Adrien Brody mmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Desertman]

I treat every PC I meet based on "what" they are playing in terms of their role.

If I meet a hardcore warrior woman PC, she gets treated exactly the same way I treat hardcore male PC's, with the exception of the addition of sexual tension to the situation because my PC's aren't gay.

This means she probably will get comments from my PC about being a woman, but geared towards being sexual with her. I also tend to play PC's that prefer to be dominant in the relationship, this means that if I am trying to "get with her", the comments I make about her being a woman are going to be geared towards finding out if she is going to be the submissive one in the relationship, otherwise, I have no interest.

This leads to an interesting situation. I have a PC (mine) that is masculine, has a direct interest in bedding females and only females, and prefers to be the dominant one in the relationship should said relationship happen. Now, this means that the women PC's he takes an interest in are going to pushed towards being what he wants them to be....because he has his own sexual preferences.

I'm not going to treat warrior women the same way I'm going to treat warrior men, mainly due to the fact I don't want to bed warrior men....I don't want to dominate warrior men anywhere but on the battlefield, where as warrior women I also want to dominate in the bedroom, and in our potential intimate relationship roleplay.

This does lead to my PC's often times treating warrior women different from warrior men, at least until my PC determines they aren't going to be compatible with his desires....meaning they aren't going to play the traditional gender role I prefer in real life that most of my PC's just happen to be sexually tuned towards in game.

The great thing about the rules surrounding gender roles and sexism in Armageddon, is they ALSO defend me playing my PC to be attracted to exactly what they want to be attracted to.

My PC's just happen to be attracted to exactly what I'm attracted to IRL....(which I find is the case with most people as well).

To that end, once my PC determines this warrior woman isn't going to be the traditional submissive he desires her to be, he will go on to treating her "like a man"...because she holds no value to him on the sexual front. The sexual aspect of the roleplay is no longer there, and she will get treated just like every warrior male gets treated.

It isn't that my PC is sexist, it's that my PC likes sex. He likes sex a certain way. He is attracted to what he is attracted to. THIS is what causes him to act the way he acts....not because the entire world acts the way he acts.

So, unless playing a man in Armageddon that is attracted to females and likes his mates to be submissive in the relationship is suddenly against the rules.....stop complaining that I treat your female pc's differently. Of course I do...I want to stick my weiner in them and they have to fit a mold for me to do that....I have no desire to stick my weiner in men, so they get treated a tad differently (at least at first).

[Delirium]

Your first problem is (almost always) playing exactly what you prefer in real life. Try breaking out of the mold and experimenting with different mindsets to bring a less "real world" flavor to the game. After all, if you just don't enjoy representing the scene if you're submissive, or gay sex squicks you out too much, you can always fade to black.

This is why I fade to black or just avoid romance, period - it's hard to trust that people behind the screen are properly separating game romance from real-life romance.

This is getting a little off topic, though. This is "I feel guilty for playing pretty characters", to which I say:

If you think your characters are coming across as prettier than you intended (this has happened to me), look at your word choice.

If you want to play a character who is pretty, just make sure that the WHY of their beauty makes sense for the world of Zalanthas.

Then, go forth and do your thing, and fuck the haters.

[Desertman]

Your first problem is (almost always) playing exactly what you prefer in real life. Try breaking out of the mold and experimenting with different mindsets to bring a less "real world" flavor to the game. After all, if you just don't enjoy representing the scene if you're submissive, or gay sex squicks you out too much, you can always fade to black.

This is why I fade to black or just avoid romance, period - it's hard to trust that people behind the screen are properly separating game romance from real-life romance.

I don't ask lesbians IRL to roleplay intimate relationships with men in game because I feel I owe the player that courtesy. Including fading to black.

I don't ask gay men IRL to roleplay intimate relationships with women in game because I feel I owe the player that courtesy. Including fading to black.

(I know you feel the same way. I haven't ever known you to do anything that would make a player feel uncomfortable and I know you get what I'm saying here.)

All I want is the same consideration.

Maybe me not wanting to roleplay intimate relationships outside of what I'm comfortable with and prefer in real life makes me a bad roleplayer, and if that is the case...I'm fine with that.

It is about a lot more than the sex. I'm going to fade the sex anyways...even the straight sex. I don't want to roleplay an intimate relationship with a man. The thought makes me uneasy. I don't want to roleplay as a submissive in a straight relationship either...it feels so unnatural to me behind the keyboard that playing the role would just be an un-enjoyable and extremely taxing exercise in making the game a job to me instead of a game.

[Beethoven]

Spaghetti's straight too, until you dump it in a pot of boiling water!

...Wait, I think I got that slightly wrong.

[Beethoven]

Seriously, though, everyone should be able to choose to roleplay or not roleplay sex and romance as they see fit, so long as they're paying proper respect to the docs. If you can get yourself to step out of the box and RP someone whose preferences are different than your own, whether you're gay or straight, sub or dom, breast man or leg man IRL, I commend that! However, no one should be pressured to RP sex/romance in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. I think that's part of the reason for the "no homophobia rule," so that people who experience homophobia in real life are not doomed to relive it IG because they prefer to play according to their RL preferences.