What Do You Need to Have?

[Asmoth]

Ranger Quit, though most of the time I hardly ever use it.

[In Dreams]

Mudsex.

[CodeMaster]

Ranger Quit, though most of the time I hardly ever use it.

  But just having something like that can be such a comfort.  Kind of like the "amulet of lifesaving" in nethack.  Absolutely useless... until you need it.  (If you're wearing it and you die, you'll get a free resurrect and the amulet will crumble.)

Climb is also one of those "amulet" skills.

[HavokBlue]

Climb is a skill that should function like piloting, where everyone can develop it.

[FantasyWriter]

Climb is a skill that should function like piloting, where everyone can develop it.

I was told last week by staff that that is no longer the case with piloting.
I believe ride still works like that though.

I also agree with the climb sentiment.

[Talia]

I was told last week by staff that that is no longer the case with piloting.

I think your question was misunderstood. It appears that the staffer who responded thought you were asking if pilot branched from ride. As far as I know, pilot is still "branchable" by anyone, just by trying to do it.

[RogueGunslinger]

Climb is a skill that should function like piloting, where everyone can develop it.

I was told last week by staff that that is no longer the case with piloting.
I believe ride still works like that though.

I also agree with the climb sentiment.

Some peoples, dwarves for instance, should be awful at climbing.

[Saellyn]

Pilot is a skill you gain just by using it, period. EVERYONE can master pilot to my knowledge.

[Harmless]

Some peoples, dwarves for instance, should be awful at climbing.

Disagree that it should be any different as is. Dwarves have reduced agility and agility certainly factors into climb checks, so they are already a bit worse off as is.

Moreover, as a former rock climbing hobbyist I can assure you that short people make excellent climbers. Strong people make excellent climbers. There is a degree of nimbleness that helps, but some of the -best- climbers I saw were 5'1 or shorter. So I don't see where you're able to assert dwarves should be so awful at it, save for maybe blocky fingers (though they are strong as hell, and definitely rough and used to dealing with rocky surfaces).

[HavokBlue]

As a rock climbing hobbyist I will also verify dwarves should be fine.

I have seen 10 year olds scale routes that make me cry.

[Quell]

As a rock climbing hobbyist I will also verify dwarves should be fine.

I have seen 10 year olds scale routes that make me cry.

My niece is four, and she climbs the local rock wall just fine.

[Tuannon]

Dwarves are not short people, they're dwarves..

A dwarf weighs as much as a person two feet taller than them does.. in some cases more. And yes I'm sure a dwarf has a more solid grip than a human.

Comparing children to dwarves is also inaccurate, as children have climbing as a class skill.

[Armaddict]

Some peoples, dwarves for instance, should be awful at climbing.

Disagree that it should be any different as is. Dwarves have reduced agility and agility certainly factors into climb checks, so they are already a bit worse off as is.

Moreover, as a former rock climbing hobbyist I can assure you that short people make excellent climbers. Strong people make excellent climbers. There is a degree of nimbleness that helps, but some of the -best- climbers I saw were 5'1 or shorter. So I don't see where you're able to assert dwarves should be so awful at it, save for maybe blocky fingers (though they are strong as hell, and definitely rough and used to dealing with rocky surfaces).

I think maybe some of the assumption might come from reach.  There are those spaces where the next grip is far away.  Not everyone can do the whole 300 'for sparta' leap to see the oracles on top of the mountain, either.  Tradeoffs and whatnot, but I don't see any reason to penalize them.  Just empathizing with the idea.

[Harmless]

Well reach is a factor. But with enough strength and a center of mass close to your hands and feet you can propel yourself quite well. There are rarely situations where there is only one handhold to go for and its out of reach. Climbing is two dimensional so you can move across until a route shows. Being short is great for such moves because.. Physics.

Just trust me. The best climbers I saw were short and very strong and dense. They made it look easy. They could hold their entire weight with one handhold for minutes. Extra height has penalties such as more centrifugal forces when hanging. It isn't all about reach at all.

And besides, dorfs already have less agi so there's your climb penalty there. For dorfs I guess thats the reduced flexibility. I think that matters far more.

Moreover climbing is highly skill dependent in real life. Natural body shape matters so little. 9/10 untrained novice climbers of any build can't do a 10 point climb on their first try. 9/10 climbers after a few months of training and practice can do a 10 point climb every time with minimal effort if they put their mind to it. The point system I'm referring to is the Yosemite Decimal System (10 point = 5.10a-d) which as you can see is in the low middle range of difficulty. And this is with a harness, climbing shoes, and chalk.

I think climb should be branchable with a low cap of apprentice level to reflect the skill dependent aspect of it. In my own life thats how far I got before I hit a ceiling of skill, not even physical limitations. I basically could do 5.10's but never could do a 5.11 without a LOT of extra focus and concentration. 5.12's were a whole different level for me, I never succeeded at them. If you count slipping and needing the harness to stay on the wall then this is even more true. Only with 5.10's could I climb reliably without mistakes or slips, but 90% of all climbers with <1 yr of experience can do 5.10's fine too. That's how I justify my assertions. I am not an expert though.

[HavokBlue]

It took me about a day to top out all the 5.10s at my local climbing gym. 9 months later, I'm still struggling on 5.12s but I would attribute that to the fact that I have zero upper body strength and as I'm learning just now from my doctor, have lost a dangerous amount of weight due.

Moral of the story is that we should all get climb, at least with a low cap.

[Harmless]

I think it's also fun to add I started rock climbing with a bad fear of heights. I would get a little nauseous, definitely very sweaty, and have other anxiety symptoms at being a certain height off the ground (about 12+ ft and it'd kick in). That was a huge barrier for me, where at the start I had trouble with even 5.5 or 5.6 climbs because of the psychological aspect of it. In other words, i had no climb skill.

But some practice and repeated visits got me to doing 5.6-5.9 really comfortably. Before long I was doing 5.10's comfortably, and then not long after that 5.10's were a breeze, i would basically be climbing up them at about the pace of using a ladder when I was starting to learn the 5.11's.

The point is, that I started without the skill, but through forced repetition (it was uncomfortable) I actually overcame that fear and I "branched" it. Then I hit my ceiling not long after and that's where I am now, but I still enjoy bouldering and stuff, and I haven't had any fear of heights since then (not counting extremes I haven't run into).

So yeah,

Moral of the story is that we should all get climb, at least with a low cap.

this, with the caveat that you'd have to branch it through repeated attempts/failures if you don't start with it naturally, to kind of reflect the whole fear of heights thing, in my opinion.

[RogueGunslinger]

Dwarves are not just short and strong. They're fat, and rotund, and bulky. Comparing them to short stocky humans doesn't really work for me. I was thinking of the average, bigass dwarf with short legs and arms and a hard time raising their hands up to do a jumping-jack motion. I imagine it being very hard fort a dwarf to get close to the wall, due to the bulk in his chest and arms and belly, putting his center of gravity really far out.


Shot humans are LIGHT. Dwarves are heavy as fuck.

[HavokBlue]

I don't think that's really how that works. If a dwarf can't do a jumping jack, he certainly can't be a master warrior either.

[RogueGunslinger]

I said a hard time doing it. And I'm talking about the average dwarf. I'm sure there are skinny, athletic dwarves who'd make badass climbers, I guess. Desert-Dwarves.

The only reason I brought it up is people think anybody should be able to learn to climb.

[nauta]

In response to the title of the thread: And when do you need it?

Also, +1 to mudsex.

[Malken]

Also, +1 to mudsex.

pm me for details

[Tetra]

A soap opera-style character background.

[Zoan]

Also, +1 to mudsex.

pm me for details

RIP ur inbox

[TheWanderer]

oh, yeah, I wanna change mine to mudsex.

I mean, it really should go without saying, doe. You can't play a fulfilling character without at least banging one noble.

Gotta bang 'em all.

[MeTekillot]

How else do you get anything done? fuickong sponsor role staff pet every gdo what they want gotta penis them