Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[Nergal]

As written by Rathustra in the staff announcement, this decision was made about a month ago. We felt the need to proceed as normal until the time came for a logical closure. This involved making sure the conditions were right for it. Divulging any more would go into IC territory, but I think it's safe to say that some players' plots needed to play out first.

[Delirium]

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

I hate this decision. I feel sorry for anyone whose played in Tuluk AND I feel worse for Northern Staff, especially after the work that was put in (especially recently... I mean WHY go through the motions on some things if it was going to be closed anyway?).

I feel like anyone whose had an active PC trying to be pro-active in Tuluk just got flushed down the drain.

And yes, I'll send in a request now to vent and sort out this poop sandwich in private.

While I empathize strongly with this (see: drastic character guild changes, sorcerer closure, etc) I've come through the other side and I have to respond with:

Why play a character at all? Every character's story comes to an end. It sucks when it's not in a way you would have chosen, but that's part of playing a collaborative game.

[bracken]

Just seen this as I'm running out the door . I'm shocked . I don't agree.

[Nergal]

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

I hate this decision. I feel sorry for anyone whose played in Tuluk AND I feel worse for Northern Staff, especially after the work that was put in (especially recently... I mean WHY go through the motions on some things if it was going to be closed anyway?).

I feel like anyone whose had an active PC trying to be pro-active in Tuluk just got flushed down the drain.

And yes, I'll send in a request now to vent and sort out this poop sandwich in private.

As someone who, since starting Armageddon, put years of playtime and stafftime into Tuluk, I can see why you'd think this way. I felt this way at first, too, when being told of the decision. But I slept on it and saw the potential good in it. It's easier to accept this when I thought about it in the long term - about someday unveiling a Newer Tuluk that was better than ever. I also thought about the possibility that that might never happen, and if it doesn't, then all the remaining areas will get even more love not just because of a consolidation of players, but of staff as well. The fact that any changes staff make or any plots staff run will impact a lot more players has a huge net effect on the possible ideas for new things staff could do. I know that I personally have a ton of ideas I'd love to do for the game that I wouldn't have been able to without this.

[Is Friday]

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

I hate this decision. I feel sorry for anyone whose played in Tuluk AND I feel worse for Northern Staff, especially after the work that was put in (especially recently... I mean WHY go through the motions on some things if it was going to be closed anyway?).

I feel like anyone whose had an active PC trying to be pro-active in Tuluk just got flushed down the drain.

And yes, I'll send in a request now to vent and sort out this poop sandwich in private.

While I empathize strongly with this (see: drastic character guild changes, sorcerer closure, etc) I've come through the other side and I have to respond with:

Why play a character at all? Every character's story comes to an end. It sucks when it's not in a way you would have chosen, but that's part of playing a collaborative game.

Why play a Red Fang?

Why play a Benjari?

Why play a Lyksaen?

Why play an Anyali?

Why play a gypsy?

[BadSkeelz]

As written by Rathustra in the staff announcement, this decision was made about a month ago. We felt the need to proceed as normal until the time came for a logical closure. This involved making sure the conditions were right for it. Divulging any more would go into IC territory, but I think it's safe to say that some players' plots needed to play out first.

2 weeks still seems a very short period of time to go from announcement to closure. I was on vacation for that long earlier this month, didn't check the boards at all. I don't think I'd be very happy if I came back and found out my character was suddenly force-stored.

I've gone out of my way to avoid playing ambitious characters and getting involved in plots that cannot be resolved in an afternoon. My sympathies are really with those players who are more ambitious, had really cool ideas and goals and were committed to making the north fun, interesting, and more Armageddon. I'm more bummed at the prospect of losing those characters players than I am at losing Tuluk.

[Aruven]

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

I hate this decision. I feel sorry for anyone whose played in Tuluk AND I feel worse for Northern Staff, especially after the work that was put in (especially recently... I mean WHY go through the motions on some things if it was going to be closed anyway?).

I feel like anyone whose had an active PC trying to be pro-active in Tuluk just got flushed down the drain.

And yes, I'll send in a request now to vent and sort out this poop sandwich in private.

I wouldn't beat up staff anymore. You're obviously not alone!

There was an entire generation of players that dealt with the previous storyline arc that left with a bad taste in their mouth, but it was 'for the good of the game' as a whole - And tuluk was still there in the end with a brand new bag of explosive new plots. I know some people had that just flushed clean feeling then too. How could that have played out already? I dunno. Haven't been there. Staff make moves when they have too, and they can only keep so many people happy at once.

Even as I write this my energy for even deliberating this move is already gone. We had ARM 2.0 - Then not. Things kept getting scaled back, smaller tribes, then bigger ones. Now we've finally got a whole city edged out.

Eventually it'll be Luirs gone, then Eventually it'll be just be Allanak, then eventually, we'll all be too old to arm.

Just a natural progression as I see it.

[Rathustra]

We found out a while ago that this was going to happen. We made a decision at that point to continue to staff for Tuluk as though nothing was different - anything less would be entirely unfair. We weren't just going to kill off swathes of PCs or half-ass it just because 'it was pointless'. It wasn't pointless and we will continue to serve the Northlands for the next two weeks with the same dedication.

[Nyr]

Even as I write this my energy for even deliberating this move is already gone. We had ARM 2.0 - Then not. Things kept getting scaled back, smaller tribes, then bigger ones. Now we've finally got a whole city edged out.

Eventually it'll be Luirs gone, then Eventually it'll be just be Allanak, then eventually, we'll all be too old to arm.

Just a natural progression as I see it.

This goes very much counter to everything we've mentioned already, but I understand and commiserate that this is not an easy thing to deal with (because it was not easy for us to deal with it, either).

[Centurion]

Awwwwwwwww ; ( Im going to work. .. first day back since holidays.... im so sad

[Desertman]

I think 30 days after this change, people are going to really love the increased game activity as a whole and see this as a good thing, even the skeptics.

[Malken]

I hate playing in Allanak and Tuluk was the only concepts that kept me coming back after screaming I quit for the 3525th times so I don't knowhow to take this.

But at least you guys are willing and trying to do the hard changes so that's good.

[Down Under]

We found out a while ago that this was going to happen. We made a decision at that point to continue to staff for Tuluk as though nothing was different - anything less would be entirely unfair. We weren't just going to kill off swathes of PCs or half-ass it just because 'it was pointless'. It wasn't pointless and we will continue to serve the Northlands for the next two weeks with the same dedication.

I appreciate this being the case.

[Centurion]

I think its good for the game... still cuts deep.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I really haven't read all the posts to be honest...  but I am just curious what is going to happen to all the items from Tuluk?  Kryl Armor, Tribal Market stuff, all that sorts?  That is a big loss to some really impressive and very well written items that exist in the game.  I do hope there is plans to bring those items still into the game in some way.  Maybe an external market or a market that is still accessible.  Maybe have a small portion that is still open for NPC merchants or something... IDK.

I'm glad to see what is happening with Tuluk, but I just hope that some of it can still exist in the game.

[Aruven]

Even as I write this my energy for even deliberating this move is already gone. We had ARM 2.0 - Then not. Things kept getting scaled back, smaller tribes, then bigger ones. Now we've finally got a whole city edged out.

Eventually it'll be Luirs gone, then Eventually it'll be just be Allanak, then eventually, we'll all be too old to arm.

Just a natural progression as I see it.

This goes very much counter to everything we've mentioned already, but I understand and commiserate that this is not an easy thing to deal with (because it was not easy for us to deal with it, either).

I'm not trying to be a downer man, i'm just a straightforward person.  Is this not why ultimately Tuluk is closing? Not enough staff or player interest to keep it alive?

I also think it will be alright in the end.

I'm not going to be afraid to say I don't like the change. I'm rolling with it as a player and part of the community, and i'll still vote for this mud

[Nyr]

I really haven't read all the posts to be honest...  but I am just curious what is going to happen to all the items from Tuluk?  Kryl Armor, Tribal Market stuff, all that sorts?  That is a big loss to some really impressive and very well written items that exist in the game.  I do hope there is plans to bring those items still into the game in some way.  Maybe an external market or a market that is still accessible.  Maybe have a small portion that is still open for NPC merchants or something... IDK.

I'm glad to see what is happening with Tuluk, but I just hope that some of it can still exist in the game.

Since the city is still there (ICly) and since trade and such will virtually occur...and since we are planning to make GMH-specific stuff available on NPC merchants...I don't see why northern-specific goods couldn't be sold at a fat markup.  Also the rest is something Adhira has alluded to.

Edit to add:  that's not to say you're going to see kryl stuff/armor/loot hit like nobody's business, I'm pointing out that there are possibilities here.

[Malken]

Will those of us playing spec-apps in Tuluk get our karma refunded/not counted against our next spec-app?

Please get in touch with us. We are treating each case individually.

Bolding for effect. All Tuluki players (sponsored, spec-apped, or vanilla) should feel free to reach out to staff to initiate a discussion about your next character, what you would like to play, and how we can help you get there.

Or discuss your current character. We can help find ways for characters that would otherwise never leave Tuluk find a reason to leave home.

Even my character? ?

[Rathustra]

Tuluk isn't being 'closed for renovations'. It's also not being closed because players weren't stepping up. It's us, not you.

Also I can't comment for the rest of staff but I'm not in favor of picking all the neat loot from the city and scattering it elsewhere. This can be presented realistically to GMH players or through interactions with the city - or even as part of events involving the city. We're not going to let people pick and choose what parts of the North they get to experience. Because it's absolutely the case that all those well-written items will be back and to hand when Tuluk re-opens.

[Rathustra]

Will those of us playing spec-apps in Tuluk get our karma refunded/not counted against our next spec-app?

Please get in touch with us. We are treating each case individually.

Bolding for effect. All Tuluki players (sponsored, spec-apped, or vanilla) should feel free to reach out to staff to initiate a discussion about your next character, what you would like to play, and how we can help you get there.

Or discuss your current character. We can help find ways for characters that would otherwise never leave Tuluk find a reason to leave home.

Even my character? ?

Sure, why not. Give it a go.

[Nyr]

Even as I write this my energy for even deliberating this move is already gone. We had ARM 2.0 - Then not. Things kept getting scaled back, smaller tribes, then bigger ones. Now we've finally got a whole city edged out.

Eventually it'll be Luirs gone, then Eventually it'll be just be Allanak, then eventually, we'll all be too old to arm.

Just a natural progression as I see it.

This goes very much counter to everything we've mentioned already, but I understand and commiserate that this is not an easy thing to deal with (because it was not easy for us to deal with it, either).

I'm not trying to be a downer man, i'm just a straightforward person.  Is this not why ultimately Tuluk is closing? Not enough staff or player interest to keep it alive?

In the interest of not inundating the thread with a lot of extra posting, I'd recommend you look over the stuff in the announcement as well as the FAQ-like post at the top of this thread.

Announcement
FAQ

We painstakingly crafted both; while we haven't answered all possible questions, yours have been answered there.

[Dakota]

Venting aside and focusing on actual playability / gameworld and story-wise... Just taking this practically...

This dulls the landscape quite a bit and takes away a lot of playability for the USER.  Theirs no more playable Yang to Allanak's Yin (I'll get to expats in a tick). Will their be more interaction? Probably. But in a way this -does- isolate Luirs and the already isolated Desert Elves even more (who despite being well played and stuck in their lands... always are wanting good interaction). Theirs no more playing a Tuluk with actual backing of a PC active Tuluk. You lack that ever present conflict that existed between the North and the South. That conflict that -drove- so much player wise.

Playing a Tuluki Expat in an Allanak during war-time or even peace time creates more obstacles for a PC than if it was a Breed mutant from the Rinth that lived Southside....(and yes, you don't HAVE to play in Allanak but this decision is certainly motivated by a push to consolidate the playerbase and resources)...

Luirs doesn't have apartments open to the public to take on an actual heavy PC population (logically speaking with whats there...). Red Storm is already full apartment wise all the time (actually I don't know why Tuluk wasn't "Red Stormed". As in all it's coded Nobility / Ruling was just NPC'd and made virtual).

The ONLY good thing that this brings is perhaps opening up room for a new (now desperately needed) coded source of conflict for Allanak. Maybe finally Gith will be opened and active for regular PCs (which won't happen I'd wager).... But Allanak -needs- a Yang -PLAYERS- can interact with and be apart of. Not just virtually but something active and present. Luirs isn't it. D-elves aren't it. Tuluk for the last... 20+ years was it.

Even if it's not Tuluk, it needs to be something. And this isn't something that's a "Be the Change" thing esp w. the current situation. This is a practical gameworld / playability / story aspect that -needs- to be filled for both Player and Storyteller and GM.

I certainly hope the thought process that went into making the decision to close Tuluk has been put into finding a viable, coded and engaging (and fun) solution for the above.

[Rathustra]

While both sides of the War were rocking the opportunities and building massive gains towards strongly-accomodated, player-run plots - these weren't plots involving direct antagonism. Tuluki PCs weren't directly harassing Allanakki PCs apart from when these plots were sprung and things were already a go. There was no yang. The yang were on the opposite side of the game world. The yang were an idea, not a real and present danger. In either direction.

[BadSkeelz]

I have read that FAQ, and I cannot help but feel Question #3 was dodged.

Tuluk is doing well.  Why do this now?
The most simple answer is that Tuluk has always existed as a place for players to play in, therefore it has always been seen as a place that needed to be staffed, needed to be improved, and needed to be played in.  We have done many things to attempt to stay ahead there, and one of the few things we haven't tried is "just not letting people play there/staff there" and no longer spend time working on it, freeing up staff to work in areas that find more player interest.

If Tuluk is doing well (which Staff seems to tacitly agree with, by phrasing the question that way), it's difficult to see this decision as being made in any other light than "Staff are tired of staffing Tuluk and trying to 'fix' it." Posts that "it isn't you, it's us" and your own infamous quotation Nyr of Tuluk being something that's "Tolerated" by staff don't do a lot to dispel this notion.

What was it specifically about Tuluk that Staff found so draining that it was decided to close the City entirely, rather than run it on a skeleton crew, "Red Storm" it or other alternatives?

EDIT: I guess I should say I feel like Question 3 should have been phrased Tuluk is doing well. Why do this at all?

[Cind]

I'm serious about the Levies. If you play peak, and love low-class gameplay, and haven't done the Levies, these are your last two weeks to get in.